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sliderule posted:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/woman-throws-pumpkin-seeds-at-trudeau-to-protest-pipelines/article32470720/ Sometimes I question if this country is real or not.
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Oct 21, 2016 18:42
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Trudeau: Under assault from protesters over ERRE A protester switched allegiance mid protest and went from NO PIPELINES to KEEP YOUR PROMISES which shouting the word HASHTAG E R R E and threw pumpkin seeds at the PM. It is not known why the protester was carrying the seeds. What is known, is that the former PMs security detail would've protected the PM from such wanton assault. Former PM Jean Chretien was quoted as saying "He is a soft liberal, only beating up on aboriginal men with psychiatric issues. In my day we gave them the Shawinigan handshake and let the protesters know who was the boss"
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Oct 21, 2016 18:42
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Risky Bisquick posted:If you morons want less immigration you better get on board with 3+ kids per family. Instead, we have people my age/payscale having multiple kids and (if they're knowledgeable enough) dipping into every social program at their disposal just to scrape by. Or they live on a reserve, in which case  
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Oct 21, 2016 19:13
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"but my lifestyle, think of the cottage vacations I wont be able to afford"
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Landsknecht posted:Canada 2016: bested by wallonia European regionalism is always amusing, with tiny sections of tiny countries trying assert that, yes, they do indeed differ from that neighbouring village across the canal. You can tell by the difference in patterns painted on the storm shutters and the funny hats worn during spring fertility festivals. During the industrial revolution Wollonia in the south of Belgium boomed on coal mining and heavy industry while the Flemish dominated north struggled. This situation reversed with the collapse of coal in the early 1900s. Wollonians tend to be viewed by other Belgians as a bunch of unsophisticated conservative red necked hicks, similar to some of what we see posted in this thread about the rural/urban divide. Part of my family tree from the 1880s is formed by northern French males marrying Wollonian women. According to local history these women joined a close-knit group of other Belgian coal miner wives when they immigrated here in the early Colonial coal mining period. This group had a reputation for being "assertive". Where Irish women would give you a good tongue lashing these women would just beat your arse, singly or in groups. I wonder sometimes if this might have been an early example of an immigrant gang. Moral of the story: Don't gently caress with Wallonia, they will kick your arse and make you cry.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:20
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When can we call the EU the Empire? Canada's negotiations with the Empire fails
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Oct 21, 2016 19:29
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I would imagine if Quebec could block trade deals, they would at every chance just to show how special they are.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:41
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The EU is just ripping every one to shreds apparently http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-eu-leaders-five-minute-brexit-speech-wait-until-1am-brussels-dinner-a7373076.html I'm not sure if I've ever seen a greater version of a  ever done. I thought this was all supposed to be done by now?
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Oct 21, 2016 19:44
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"May ignored when she speaks" Some things really are universal.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:48
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Hexigrammus posted:Interesting article. Coming from an economist and the land of "gently caress off, we're full" my first impulse was to file it in the same bin as 98% of the Fraser Institute's output. Gotta watch that cynicism, it's not doing a thing for my intellectual growth. I think the upshot here is that we need to recognize that relatively open immigration policies are perfectly compatible with racism and xenophobia. Just look at the Reagan or Bush administrations in the United States for a great example of how race-baiting or xenophobic rhetoric can exist side-by-side with pushes for more open immigration. Contemporary conservatives and business-liberals need to maintain popular support from at least some of the available blue collar or middle class voters in their respective countries, and making coded (or open) appeals to racial anxiety are often an effective technique for gaining voter support, even if you simultaneously enact policies which are entirely contrary to your rhetoric. And as this famous old cartoon handily illustrates, management has always been happy to exploit ethnic divides within the work force:  Dreylad posted:You didn't say it explicitly and I'm also dumb, but just to be clear: you're talking about population growth via immigration right? Because from what I've read Canada is heading towards 0.5% popuilation growth with the majority of that being from migratory increases. Well the argument made by the article is, specifically, that there's no statistically significant relationship in OECD countries between increased population and increased GDP per capita and, likewise, no statistically significant relationship between population growth and increased productivity (this being key since productivity growth is generally seen as the key metric for raising living standards if you assume, as our society tends to, that any kind of large-scale redistribution of existing resources is off the table). quote:The historian in me wants to point out that sweeping generalizations from different continents might not be very helpful here. Instead from our own country's history the period from 1901-1911 and 1951-1961 were moments of tremendous population increase that coincided with tremendous economic growth. But that's not really helpful either since the first population surge was thanks to attracting immigrants via land grants in the Prairies, and the second was after the Second World War where Canada seemingly had plentiful industrial jobs. Well let's be honest here, the tendency for historians is to be allergic to any kind of cross national or cross temporal comparison -- the trend of historical departments for several decades now has been to reduce each historical incident to a position of complete uniqueness which makes it inappropriate for comparison. Historians are sort of like the anti-economists of the academic world. Try to make a comparison between two different periods or countries and most historians will become profoundly uncomfortable. And for good reason. So let's not build the data from the article into something it isn't. But let's also acknowledge it for what it is. First of all, it does look at evidence from the OECD so it's slightly more sophisticated than merely being a survey of recent Australian labour market policy. It at least can be said that the Australian data is being contextualized somewhat. I also want to point out that the key reason I posted this article wasn't to argue that population growth - via immigration or any other means - is bad. Instead the point here is to dissect a common narrative among business people and journalists about the impact of immigration. I think a sweeping generalization -- when backed up by data -- is an appropriate rejoinder to someone else's sweeping generalization. We're not trying to establish new information, we're putting an existing narrative to the test by attacking it with contradictory information. So the standard of evidence isn't quite as high as you're suggesting. Finally, I think your on the right track when you bring up those specific examples from the Canadian historical record. Because the key take away here isn't that immigration is automatically good or bad. The key take away is simply that there's no automatic or easy relationship between higher living standards and a larger population. That doesn't mean that there aren't specific cases where living standards might be improved through a more targeted immigration policy. For instance, everything in the article could be true as presented and yet we could still argue that importing more skilled doctors to Canada would be a great boon, if it helped us address a shortage. It's very important that we focus here on what the data is telling us, which is that population size increases alone don't guarantee any benefits. quote:Seems like if we just hold steady with our current immigration policy we'll stall out soon enough anyway. Whether or not that actually happens due to changing attitudes about immigration and external factors like climate change -- it's hard to say. My concern here is that the Liberals will use immigration as a panacea for our economic problems. Since the Liberals will design their immigration policy based on what their business friends want it's all but guaranteed that the intentional design of any Liberal policy is going to be reflective of what the business world wants, and that's pretty simple: they want the cheapest skilled labour possible, without paying for any more job training than is absolutely necessary. There's also an inevitable opportunity cost to a policy like this. If we address these skill shortages by bringing in more immigrants then this reduces the pressure to train the people already here to do these jobs. Often it turns out the real barrier here is that businesses won't invest in people in the same way that businesses in other countries are willing to. Of course that's not just some intangible moral failing on the part of Canadian businesses: it's a response to the incentive structure the government and wider culture has created for them. What disturbs me is that rather than making a strong and coherent critique of why Canadian businesses are so unwilling to raise salaries or to invest in better training, we're at risk of being side tracked into an argument that seems custom-designed to confuse progressives. I mean, who could possibly object to increasing immigration? That's a position that just smacks of Donald Trump style racism! I really, really don't want to let a major labour-market policy like immigration rates descend into liberal virtue-signalling, which is the direction I think we're moving in. It doesn't help that the growing right-wing opposition to immigration is going to make it much easier to tar any critical discussion of immigration as inherently racist. This is a very dangerous situation: democratic governments require open debate, nuance, and a willingness to consider opposing viewpoints. If this becomes another area where everyone takes positions based on their tribal instincts then all we've done is ceded a bit more of our swiftly diminishing control over our political class. Instead of having a national discussion on the topic we'll all be locked up into our own tiny and atomised islands of opinion, and politicians will use micro-targetting to slice and dice us into exactly the political coalitions they need to win support for whatever policies the business class desires. Guy DeBorgore posted:I skimmed that whole giant thing and it didn't mention immigration at all, let alone skilled/economic immigration. Do I even need to point out why population growth isn't a good proxy? Especially when your sample size is only 35 countries? It's a short article so why don't you go back and read it and then respond to it? I was going to reply to the rest of your post but frankly most of what you said is addressed in my response to Dreyland and besides when somebody combines a bunch sarcastic dismissals with a "tl;dr" it kinda dampens my enthusiasm for typing out a more thoughtful or in depth reply.
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Oct 21, 2016 19:49
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Powershift posted:I would imagine if Quebec could block trade deals, they would at every chance just to show how special they are. Québec is the most pro-free trade province~
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Oct 21, 2016 21:23
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Helsing posted:Well the argument made by the article is, specifically, that there's no statistically significant relationship in OECD countries between increased population and increased GDP per capita and, likewise, no statistically significant relationship between population growth and increased productivity (this being key since productivity growth is generally seen as the key metric for raising living standards if you assume, as our society tends to, that any kind of large-scale redistribution of existing resources is off the table). OK, I didn't quite catch that the article was stating that there was no correlation, rather than arguing there was some other side effect to immigration and GDP and productivity. That does discredit the narrative of Immigration Is Good For The Economy Full Stop to me. quote:I really, really don't want to let a major labour-market policy like immigration rates descend into liberal virtue-signalling, which is the direction I think we're moving in. It doesn't help that the growing right-wing opposition to immigration is going to make it much easier to tar any critical discussion of immigration as inherently racist. This is a very dangerous situation: democratic governments require open debate, nuance, and a willingness to consider opposing viewpoints. If this becomes another area where everyone takes positions based on their tribal instincts then all we've done is ceded a bit more of our swiftly diminishing control over our political class. Instead of having a national discussion on the topic we'll all be locked up into our own tiny and atomised islands of opinion, and politicians will use micro-targetting to slice and dice us into exactly the political coalitions they need to win support for whatever policies the business class desires. I'm kind of curious now to go back and look at the discussion around immigration in Canada's past to see what kind of positions and viewpoints influenced those debates. I do recall reading old newspapers promoting the Ukrainians Canada attracted pre-WW1 as productive farmers who just needed some anglicizing to bring into the Canadian fold. Jokes on them when WW1 broke out and thousands of them were kept in internment camps. There was the same effort to normalize immigrant behaviour and culture under the guise of rooting out communists in the mix after the Second World War through organizations like the IODE. Today it's done under the guise of acclimatizing new Canadians to the Canada and our Charter rights. All that being said, I think it's important to differentiate between immigration policy and refugee policy, although arguably our political leaders have tried to erase the difference in order to silence critics of either. But that only reinforces your final point. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 21, 2016 |
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Oct 21, 2016 21:31
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Pinterest Mom posted:Québec is the most pro-free trade province~ Ontario's going for it though. Apparently Wynne is no Berniebro quote:“When I was in the States and I was asked about what the protectionist discussion that was going on because of what Trump has said, but quite frankly also because some of the stuff Bernie Sanders was talking about, I think it’s very dangerous,” Wynne said. “I don’t think it’s good for Ontario. I don’t think it’s good for the United States and I don’t think it’s good for the world.”
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Oct 21, 2016 21:48
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The mayor of Victoria is visiting China to drum up business and trade or whatever, and also stopping by the people who are fabricating the ridiculous boondoggle bridge the previous mayor shat the bed on. This fabricator previously had all their work deemed so lovely they had to toss it and start over, then they complained that they've never cut or welded large circles before and didn't know how. So, they pulled out all the stops to put on a good show and assure the mayor and people of Victoria that they aren't totally incompetent.
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Oct 21, 2016 22:08
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Hexigrammus posted:European regionalism is always amusing, with tiny sections of tiny countries trying assert that, yes, they do indeed differ from that neighbouring village across the canal. You can tell by the difference in patterns painted on the storm shutters and the funny hats worn during spring fertility festivals. I'm assuming this is a joke post, Walloons are seen as lazy unemployed socialists, no one would ever describe them as conservative. Maybe rustic out in the sticks. The two linguistic communities in Belgium have almost nothing to do with each other, with virtually no media or even political parties in common, so no one should be surprised at this news. Good for Wallonia.
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Oct 21, 2016 22:39
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Phlegmish posted:I'm assuming this is a joke post, Walloons are seen as lazy unemployed socialists, no one would ever describe them as conservative. Maybe rustic out in the sticks. My sources are second hand and undoubtedly dated. I'll take the "lazy unemployed socialists" though, that makes me even more delighted to have some in my family tree.
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Oct 21, 2016 22:56
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Pinterest Mom posted:Québec is the most pro-free trade province~ Margarine excluded
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Oct 21, 2016 23:16
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CBC posted:Transphobic U of T prof opposes the evolution of language so we made him write this op-ed in Middle English
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Oct 22, 2016 00:31
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That is probably the best thing to come out of the CBC in quite a while.
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Oct 22, 2016 00:47
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The This Is That bit about re-introducing black bears to the Don Valley was pretty good.
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Oct 22, 2016 01:07
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The This is That about golf courses becoming national parks got me as I tuned in just at the end.
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Oct 22, 2016 01:16
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Remember the whole "beginning of wisdom being about calling things by their right names and people what they call themselves" thing? What happened to that?
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Oct 22, 2016 01:43
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infernal machines posted:That is probably the best thing to come out of the CBC in quite a while. I had myself a hearty chuckle... From a CBC bit? Truly a sign of the end times.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:11
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I made a poem. I dedicate it to Itanski. I will not call you what you want. I will not change my way of thought! I do believe these trans are wrong. I'm alt-right man, now pass that bong!
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Oct 22, 2016 02:21
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Whoa. Someone's channelling Ye Fowle Herald from the Politoons thread. Had my hands full the other day when This Is That came on and ended up listening to it instead of turning it off immediately. The "Home Crafted Pharmaceuticals" bit was actually funny. I was a little worried that a minor stroke was affecting my brain function.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:24
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The Butcher posted:I made a poem. I dedicate it to Itanski. Jesus christ it's Ikantski. I can't ski. It's a snowboarder joke from 20 years ago that I'm really attached to. Do you have any idea how much it invalidates me as a person when you call me the wrong thing. All my accomplishments, my 720s and backside lipslides and other happy moments extinguished because you can't take 2 seconds. There should be some kind of legal human rights protection against monsters like you attacking potentially bi people like me.
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Oct 22, 2016 02:44
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I hate to call your identity into question, but you look like Postess with the Mostest from here
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Oct 22, 2016 02:47
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Jesus christ it's Ikantski. Sorry I don't care how you want to spell it, I like my way better. HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW?
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Oct 22, 2016 03:11
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In other news, Peter Julian is stepping down to (probably) run for leadershipquote:Today I resigned as NDP House Leader to explore the possibility of a leadership bid. Over the past few months, I have had many exciting conversations about the future of our party. I am now looking forward to the opportunity to continue those conversations with colleagues and Canadians across the country about their vision for our party and our country.
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Oct 22, 2016 03:21
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gently caress yes
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Oct 22, 2016 03:25
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Arabian Jesus posted:In other news, Peter Julian is stepping down to (probably) run for leadership Which one is he and why should I care?
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Oct 22, 2016 08:00
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Jesus christ it's Ikantski. I can't ski. It's a snowboarder joke from 20 years ago that I'm really attached to. Do you have any idea how much it invalidates me as a person when you call me the wrong thing. All my accomplishments, my 720s and backside lipslides and other happy moments extinguished because you can't take 2 seconds. There should be some kind of legal human rights protection against monsters like you attacking potentially bi people like me. whao, i didn't know you got renamed, but your new name owns tbqh. Btw what is your preferred pronoun since this is TYOOL2016
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Oct 22, 2016 18:37
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The Canadaland guy wrote a very CanPol sounding editorial in the Guardian.quote:Think Canada is a progressive paradise? That’s mooseshit 
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Oct 22, 2016 19:08
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Jesus christ it's Ikantski. I can't ski. It's a snowboarder joke from 20 years ago that I'm really attached to. Do you have any idea how much it invalidates me as a person when you call me the wrong thing. All my accomplishments, my 720s and backside lipslides and other happy moments extinguished because you can't take 2 seconds. There should be some kind of legal human rights protection against monsters like you attacking potentially bi people like me. I identify as the yeti from ski free
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Oct 22, 2016 19:18
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I just skimmed like 30 pages of this thread cause I was so behind and I'm glad to see nothing has changed. I hope Peter Julian becomes NDP leader.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:17
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Helsing posted:The Canadaland guy wrote a very CanPol sounding editorial in the Guardian. There are a few problems with that piece: 1) The Feds aren't cutting health transfers, they're cutting the rate of growth of transfer from 6% to a minimum of 3%1. 2) Greenhouse gas emissions from the oil sands in 2014 were 67.8 million tonnes2 , California's total emissions that year were 441.5 million tonnes3 so no, the oil sands do not have greater emissions than California 3) If Canada's still basing our economy on fossil fuels we're doing a lovely job of it if we compared to say, Norway. Oil and gas accounts for 22% of GDP4 while the entirety of oil and gas extraction, mining, and quarrying is 8.1% of GDP5 (I couldn't find just oil & gas figures although I saw a few tweets on Twitter saying it was about 4%). 4) The Northwest Mounted Police/RCMP used horses before the 1930s, come on. The annoying thing is I think the premise of the article is reasonable, Canada's not all sunshine and sunny ways and there are some things that are horrible (living conditions and treatment of the indigenous peoples being the biggest one) and other things that should also be better. You don't have to make stuff up to make that case but Brown went ahead and did that. And then when it's pointed out to him on Twitter by people who know their stuff like Andrew Leach (on the emissions) or Emmett Macfarlane (on the health care "cuts") he completely ignores them while mocking absurd critics like Ezra Levant. I would think somebody who fancies themselves a media critic would be able to take and respond to reasonable criticism. (I didn't look for all those figures for this thread... I sent an email to the Guardian's Readers' Editor which I guess makes me only slightly less unhinged).
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Oct 22, 2016 20:28
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Mr_Roke posted:
But... But why would he spin misinformation that can be fact checked without much effort?
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Oct 22, 2016 21:53
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the trump tutelage posted:But... But why would he spin misinformation that can be fact checked without much effort? Why indeed? 
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Oct 22, 2016 22:02
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Picture, in your head, the platonic ideal of a young Conservative
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Oct 23, 2016 04:06
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Sam Oosterhoff, 19, has won the PC nomination in Niagara West–Glanbrook, Tim Hudak's seat. Looks like he won thanks to support from the anti-choice lobby. (ONDP's going to win it) Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 04:09
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Pinterest Mom posted:Sam Oosterhoff, 19, has won the PC nomination in Niagara West–Glanbrook, Tim Hudak's seat. Looks like he won thanks to support from the anti-choice lobby. Over Dykstra? Whoa And why do you think the ONDP are going to take that seat?
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Oct 23, 2016 04:37
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