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Doc Hawkins posted:In my limited American understanding, I don't see how adulteration isn't orthogonal to PDOs. What bothers me about my country's food regulation is not that our cheddar cheese is allowed to be called cheddar, it's that it's allowed to be called cheese, even if it has ingredients which the law use to treat just like sawdust added to bread flour. By all means, please ban our "cheese" from your shores by saying it can only contain the four ingredients engraved on some medieval tablet. Frankly I hope you're doing that already. You are kind of missing the point with thr talk about food safety and stuff. This is not something like the FDA regulating that chicken meat should not contain used syringes, think of it more like Kleenex telling Walmart that they are not allowed to call their store brand paper tissues Kleenex.
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Oct 22, 2016 19:59
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| # ? May 30, 2024 00:29 |
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Brainiac Five is an idiot and a moron who votes for Trump because he wants to Make America Great Again.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:10
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Cat Mattress posted:Brainiac Five is an idiot and a moron who votes for Trump because he wants to Make America Great Again. Oh man, there's nothing left to do but fall on my sword now.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:12
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Brainiac Five posted:You're an idiot because you think acquiescence to gibes is moral and responding in kind is immoral. Without having authority over the other person, suffering such things in silence only presents you as an easy mark. And if people ITT thought you an easy mark? What then?
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Oct 22, 2016 20:14
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Brainiac Five posted:Oh man, there's nothing left to do but fall on my sword now. Please do, ASAP.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:15
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Cat Mattress posted:Brainiac Five is an idiot and a moron who votes for Trump because he wants to Make America Great Again. Can you blame him? The alternative is crooked Hillary who wants to start a nuclear war with Russia.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:15
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Brainiac Five posted:Oh man, there's nothing left to do but fall on my sword now. Grab yourself by your preferred genitals and move in like a bitch, you earned it with this recent display.
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Oct 22, 2016 20:16
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Doc Hawkins posted:And if people ITT thought you an easy mark? What then? Then they would, in turn, be tempted towards further sinful actions and eventually end up damned. Cat Mattress posted:Please do, ASAP. Look who doesn't have the guts to kill me himself. doverhog posted:Grab yourself by your preferred genitals and move in like a bitch, you earned it with this recent display. "Preferred genitals"? What? There aren't any intersex conditions that produce both penis and vagina. Brainiac Five fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 20:17
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Riso posted:Can you blame him? Brainiac Five posted:"Preferred genitals"? What? There aren't any intersex conditions that produce both penis and vagina. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 20:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Go big or go home. 5-ARD may result in clitoral fusion with the urethra but I'm not aware of any cases where vaginal structures coexisted with a definite phallus. Are you thinking of clitoromegaly generally?
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Oct 22, 2016 20:25
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Cat Mattress posted:Brainiac Five is an idiot and a moron who votes for Trump because he wants to Make America Great Again. lmao
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Oct 22, 2016 20:42
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Brainiac Five posted:To be fair, the USA should militarily intervene to protect refugees in Europe. Imo, send all refugees to Gitmo. They are great match for profile of the current customers in there and finally someone is prepared to spend money on them.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:05
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Let them eat parmiggiano
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Oct 22, 2016 21:07
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Kurtofan posted:Let them eat parmiggiano Made in China.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:13
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I was watching a movie but now I'm back!
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Oct 22, 2016 21:13
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steinrokkan posted:Unfortunately the epidemic anomie of depressed and self-hating Americans makes them hateful, violent, and incapable of seeing the wisdom of allowing people to self-govern their communities, and decide about the future of their communal intangible property. i get it, no superior european could possibly be against pdos, unlike the uncivilised amerikkkan. No wait, there are actually European posters here also arguing against PDOs so clearly you're wrong. A Buttery Pastry posted:Going by this post: At which point they should explicitly be called "subsidy for the countryside traditional entertainment zones" and not pretend to be about protecting the purity of traditional European foodstuffs.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:15
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Here's the original post that started it all. Should be put in the OP IMHO.Cat Mattress posted:Do we need an FTA to trade with Canada or the USA? Are the tariffs high? The whole thing about how the EU not automatically rubber-stamping every trade agreement that comes its way is a proof that it's dysfunctional and backward is really ridiculous.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:16
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blowfish posted:i get it, no superior european could possibly be against pdos, unlike the uncivilised amerikkkan. No wait, there are actually European posters here also arguing against PDOs so clearly you're wrong. i was just trying to annoy that brainiac guy  blowfish posted:At which point they should explicitly be called "subsidy for the countryside traditional entertainment zones" and not pretend to be about protecting the purity of traditional European foodstuffs. These are two issues which are partially, and largely accidentally similar in what they hope to achieve, but not even close to bein identical either in mechanisms, or in the whole set of each of their purposes. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 21:18
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Europe's only culture is bacteria (which turn milk into cheese) 
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Oct 22, 2016 21:26
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I'm going to nail five planks together and glue some wheels to it and sell the lot on the internet for $40'000 as Genuine American Mustangs just because. Then when, through sheer power of mass marketing, people have forgotten about what American Mustangs actually are I'll buy the original factory and sell it for parts to China. if you're American disclaimer there's some nuance in this post 
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Oct 22, 2016 21:33
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:I'm going to nail five planks together and glue some wheels to it and sell the lot on the internet for $40'000 as Genuine American Mustangs just because. If "Mustang" became the generic term for sports cars then more power to you. If "Mustang" were the term for sports cars with a certain spec list then also more power to you (and if you don't meet those spec than lol false advertising).
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Oct 22, 2016 21:37
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:I'm going to nail five planks together and glue some wheels to it and sell the lot on the internet for $40'000 as Genuine American Mustangs just because. Would probably be more reliable than a mid 90s real Mustang.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:42
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u amreican "people" have no pride in what u do
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Oct 22, 2016 21:42
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blowfish posted:If "Mustang" became the generic term for sports cars then more power to you. Yay free trade! No matter the consequences, if a guy has an idea where he can legally gently caress other lesser guys then more power to him 
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Oct 22, 2016 21:53
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:I'm going to nail five planks together and glue some wheels to it and sell the lot on the internet for $40'000 as Genuine American Mustangs just because. The assumption in this analogy is that the original is actually better.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:58
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Yay free trade! No matter the consequences, if a guy has an idea where he can legally gently caress other lesser guys then more power to him Look if you want to sell a worse car for significantly more money than the real car costs, why should I care? I don't think you'll really get anywhere with it, and you can't possibly hurt the brand worse than the late first-generation Mustangs or half the fourth generation did.
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Oct 22, 2016 21:59
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Yay free trade! No matter the consequences, if a guy has an idea where he can legally gently caress other lesser guys then more power to him Yay regressive bullshit, preventing people from doing things with zero harm since 6000BC
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Oct 22, 2016 22:12
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blowfish posted:Yay regressive bullshit, preventing people from doing things with zero harm since 6000BC Don't forget the paradaisically low productivity which made everybody's life so much better than today.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:23
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THe thread where earlier today people rallied against FTAs and mocked the idea that productivity should be the paramount of human endeavor is now wholeheartedly promoting the notion that all that matters is gumption, and that if you have it, you should be able to walk over the corpses of your hopelessly naive enemies towards an unhampered success on the infinitely wise rational market.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:24
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Trademarks exists, deal with it So why can I make Camembert de Normandie by moving to Normandy and just following the meagre prescriptions of the PDO charter? If it was a collective trademark granted to the companies/individuals making Camembert in Normandy at the time it was granted, that would make sense with your simile. Cat Mattress posted:And mostly people who whine about PDO just wants to trademark traditional names to take advantage of the built-in marketing around it and then claim it as their own. It's a form of plunder. The "Laguiole" trademark for knives was successfully defeated, and the rules for granting trademarks were changed to improve protection of genericized names. I don't like PDOs in their current form, and I also don't think that trademarking generic names is desireable. steinrokkan posted:[...] just because I knew that a bit of cheese I bought was ripened in the same cellars as it used to be hundreds of years ago using the same techniques [...] None of this seems even remotely covered by PDOs, though? Champagne houses have modern equipment/warehouses and have destroyed (or turned) the artisanal tools and locations into museum pieces, and some PDO products weren't even sold in the same state 50 years ago, let alone 100 (Camembert, for instance, is mandated to have a white exterior texture, despite this only becoming widespread in the 70s due to microbiology advances allowing the isolation of a specific type of mold which is white, replacing for commercial reasons the previous grey-blue or grey-brown texture)... Surely this doesn't square with the intent you assign to PDOs, though? steinrokkan posted:And maybe in hundred years your product will become notorious enough to warrant protection from immitators as well, and will have assumed an identity of its own instead of parasiting on somebody else's work. Yet the gradual development of these products is/was clearly the result of copying other products, changing the product to suit changing conditions (industrialization, transportation capacity, etc.), and the spread of techniques or knowledge from one region to the other which lead to improved products. For instance, the Phylloxera crisis for French wine in the 19th century was solved by replacing the grape variety and changing a bit the plantation technique (Côt was replaced by Merlot and sand was used at the feet of the plants). The PDO rules would ban any similar attempt to improve the product, even if those attempting the change had been producing locally for multiple generations. Regarding imitators, I'm pushing this a bit, but do you think that places that serve Edomae sushi (aka sushi) should be prevented from calling it sushi? Or is the fact that there is a huge industry aping a specific food preparation and technique different? steinrokkan posted:What I mean is that the original producers apply for a protected name at the EU so they can guarantee that the people who come in and claim to be part of their trade do not lower the standards. How does a geographical restriction achieve this objective? steinrokkan posted:You are right, the rules should possibly be tighter. Nevertheless, I believe that in most cases the inherent nature of the requirements is such that even if the final packaging plant or, say the brewing process, is part of a large conglomerate, the preceding production steps are made by small units who e.g. take care of cultivating and monitoring the crops and soil whose specific characteristics are part of the regional denomination requirements. There is probably a lot of space for coupling e.g. the mechanisms of regional protection with CAP targeted small farmer subsidies. If supporting small producers is an objective, then the PDO system is IMO the wrong way to achieve it. The PDO system means that the small producer on the wrong side of the border has their product greatly diminished in value, without any obvious and realistic way to remedy this issue. A better and more effective way would be to support small producers based on the fact that they are small producers and respect/achieve certain metrics of quality (environmental and other) in their production, without tying this to the fact that they happen to be in a region that has been granted PDO status. Otherwise you are effectively saying that rural areas should be almost exclusively massive monocultures, with a few PDO areas of specialty production. This isn't a sustainable project on ecological bases alone, but also makes the various PDO areas extremely vulnerable to a localised crisis (e.g. Austrian wine was pretty much decimated when the 1985 wine tainting scandal happened, one can imagine that the same could happen for any PDO, leading to massive problems in areas that aren't sufficiently diversified in production). steinrokkan posted:A cultivated countryside is nowadays mainly a zone for recreation away from the city, and to fulfill that function, it requires lots of manpower engaged in jobs that are not really marketable, and work more like public goods. The Beauce is one of the most "cultivated" (in pretty much every respect) countryside in France, but it's poo poo. There's nothing even remotely recreative nor people who go there, despite being a stone's throw from Paris. Perhaps I mis-understood what you were trying to say? I think it's important to not turn all countrysides into cereal monocultures, but rural areas as a whole are definitely not recreative areas. Only a few very lucky places have managed to develop a basic tertiary sector. Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:[T]hink of it more like Kleenex telling Walmart that they are not allowed to call their store brand paper tissues Kleenex. Surely if this were the case then the PDO would exclude newcomers from taking any part in the collective trademark/name? The simile makes more sense if it required Walmart to make their paper tissues within two miles of Kleenex' store, and then they could call them Kleenexes, as long as they use double-ply. I don't think the objectives of PDOs are bad, I just think that PDOs in their current form are bad. I don't think geography should be a relevant factor, just the conditions and method of preparation. Apart from that it's a mix of food safety, geographical origins and small producer/rural support mechanisms which should be implemented for their own merits.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:26
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computer parts posted:The assumption in this analogy is that the original is actually better. If the new product is better, why are you saddling it with the name of an inferior product? blowfish posted:Yay regressive bullshit, preventing people from doing things with zero harm since 6000BC I'm sorry about your terminal lack of imagination that prevents you from doing the effort of coming up with your own brand names.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:27
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steinrokkan posted:THe thread where earlier today people rallied against FTAs and mocked the idea that productivity should be the paramount of human endeavor is now wholeheartedly promoting the notion that all that matters is gumption, and that if you have it, you should be able to walk over the corpses of your hopelessly naive enemies towards an unhampered success on the infinitely wise rational market. No, actually it's currently telling people who pose an undue importance on the provenance of arbitrary products of all things that they're stupid.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:27
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Cat Mattress posted:If the new product is better, why are you saddling it with the name of an inferior product? No actually it's the same product just made in a factory located anywhere but one arbitrary spot on the globe. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 22:30
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blowfish posted:No, actually it's currently telling people who pose an undue importance on the provenance of arbitrary products of all things that they're stupid. They are stupid because an unrestricted market will optimize distribution of products based on rational decisions made by informed consumers if we allow people to manufacture whatever using other people's naming schemes.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:31
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steinrokkan posted:They are stupid because an unrestricted market will optimize distribution of products based on rational decisions made by informed consumers if we allow people to manufacture whatever using other people's naming schemes. Calling things that are the same the same is good, while obfuscatory marketing with an overgrown mass of bad terminology is cancer.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:33
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Cat Mattress posted:I'm sorry about your terminal lack of imagination that prevents you from doing the effort of coming up with your own brand names. This is a bit of a poor argument IMO. People selling Camembert put their label and brand on the box, and even aggressively market their brands because they know that it is a significant part of the decision customers make when purchasing. But beyond the brand, customers need to know what a product is, and as such calling a product "Camembert" shouldn't cause confusion, since it's the common name for the product if the branding is absent. Asking Camembert producers outside Normandy to come up with a new name for the product they have been selling for as long (or longer!) as the companies producing in Normandy is in my opinion not reasonable nor desireable since it creates confusion for the customer rather than improve their understanding of the product being sold.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:37
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It actually clarifies terminology. Anyway, we should probably also do away with fair trade and bio / organic designations because they don't really affect the final quality of the product.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:38
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Most "bio"/"organic"/"free trade" designations are garbage and should indeed be made clear to the customer that they are not the result of any form of regulatory oversight, and are even in many cases purely voluntary by the producer without oversight.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:39
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Well, not in Europe, afaik. You definitely need to meet some standards to get Bio (or local equivalent) certified.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:40
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| # ? May 30, 2024 00:29 |
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-Dad, why did we have to leave Earth? I liked it there! *Well you see Ellie, it all started when my dad, your grandpa, gave me my first ten million dollars. I was fresh out of Ivy League and after 4 years of non-stop partying I was ready to conquer the world! -Is this when you started the wine company? *Oh yes, Ellie. I had this girlfriend who would never stop yakking about the Merlot and the Chardonnay so I thought I'd give her some of my own wine, made with my own two hands. *I bought a few acres. Or few thousand acres I don't recall, it was so long ago. But it was somewhere in China where true entrepreneurs such as myself were reign-free, as long as you knew whose hands needed greasing eheheh. -So did your girlfriend like it? *What? -Did your girlfriend like the wine? *Oh her? Oh no we weren't an item anymore, not after I exposed her lies on social media. Her lies and also her photos. By the way sweetie always have a guy pour your drink in front of you if you know what I mean. - I don't know what you mean. *Well it doesn't matter. So I planted the wine plants. Did you know they also grow grapes? I was amazed! - Did you do it yourself? *What, the farming? Oh no. No no, I'd never! I never ever set foot in China! It's terrible there! *No, I had my people do it for me. -So what did you do then? *I ran things. -Like what? *Like running things, I made it so that I could do the things, all by my lone self! So much work! -And then what happened? *Well nobody liked the wine but after it was rebranded from "Super Wine Max" to "Château Monthierry-Lacombe" and we started a marketing blitz all over East Asia we sold them by the barrel! It was crazy! -What's a "shattoh mon cherry la comb"? *A European thing. I'm thinking... An animal maybe? Something like that, it doesn't matter. *Well long story short, this is where I made my fortune. All because I was able to hire the right people, and with my own two hands! -That's amazing daddy. *Yes and- Oh! I remember now! It was a place! - What was a place? *The Château Monthierry-Lacombe was a real place! I bought it at some point! But the wine they made was terrible. I set out to change that but since it was somewhere outside of China I had to grease different palms, you know. Lower some barriers. Free some trade. So much work! So many dinners! *So I bought the Château, but guess what? You'll never believe that. It was a tiny place. Something ridiculous! So I though, why even bother? But I had to make a point, so I bulldozed the estate and that's where we built the Super Wine Max Funland! So much fun! "Party hard, party hard", as they say! So much work! -With your two hands! *Yes, my own two hands, yes. Clever girl. -Was it before I was born? *A long time before you were "born", It was 500 years ago my dear child. -... *Ah, so many memories, and you know what sweetie, sometimes I miss Earth too but you can't slow down the march of progress! *Computer, shut down "Ellie" please. +Ellie off. *(To self) Now where did I put my soda?
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Oct 22, 2016 22:41
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