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If you can't see the importance of Jesus railing against empire and think it's irrelevant for us today the only thing I can tell you is read musa dube
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Oct 22, 2016 13:43
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Worthleast posted:This is why I love Aquinas, because for how academic and goony he really was, the man had a prayer life that anchored everything in reality. Look at the office he composed for Corpus Christi. It's all super doctrinal, yet full of obvious love. Had to read it for myself, was impressed. quote:On the cross Thy Godhead Insightful, relevant, and it rhymes! This is a translation, of course, but why I am hopeful that there is already a broad and undefeated spirit of ecumenism in the people is because of things like the common recognition of the sacrifice Jesus was willing to make for everybody. Accepting his execution was a part of his ministry of love and justice. Even as clerics and theologians remain organizationally or philosophically divided, it does not stop followers of Jesus from gathering to reflect on and perform the work of the good news. pidan posted:Basically what happened is, I read some Bible to find some sort of relationship with Jesus, and it turns out maybe I don't like him that much, even though his friends talk really highly of him. Or maybe it's that the sermons of Jesus read like a commentary on first century Israeli politics, and not so much a guide on things that are relevant today. It has lots of texts like these: I appreciate the honesty you're showing here and your continued dedication to want to get to the bottom of this mystery. Skepticism is the individual's safeguard from idolatry, and most things that humans call gods are actually just idols. And since you have already made the effort to understand Jesus from his perspective and context, I'd just like to ask: what are the relevant questions you have in your life, that you want answers and accountability from a god that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent? At the very least, I would like to pray on these questions and have them in my heart.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:05
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HEY GAL posted:funny how that works out Even though I've more or less left the Southern Baptist church I grew up in, I still strongly believe in the core ideas and principles of Baptist belief and practice. I just can't tolerate how deeply the Southern Baptist Convention has become tied up in right-wing American politics. Fully accepting (i.e. into positions of leadership in the church) women has become something of an issue for me, as has welcoming LGBT people in the church. Fortunately I'm a Protestant so I haven't had any trouble finding churches of other denominations that are "Eh, close enough, I don't really care about the fine details anyhow." 
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Oct 22, 2016 14:34
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Cythereal posted:Even though I've more or less left the Southern Baptist church I grew up in, I still strongly believe in the core ideas and principles of Baptist belief and practice. I just can't tolerate how deeply the Southern Baptist Convention has become tied up in right-wing American politics. Fully accepting (i.e. into positions of leadership in the church) women has become something of an issue for me, as has welcoming LGBT people in the church.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:37
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HEY GAL posted:i was not kidding when i said you and Man Whore might enjoy having a study group / prayer group over PMs or something. you know--at least there's two of you I'm getting ready to move again in a couple of weeks for a new job, so it will be time to start church shopping all over again.
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Oct 22, 2016 14:44
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HEY GAL posted:i don't know anything about this in particular, i just remember that paladinus said that in their experience russian theologians drew on aquinas. none of the russians i've read have been obviously influenced by him, but then again i wouldn't have read them if they had. ask paladinus if you want anything more specific Like what? Teaching grace as a created phenomenon? Original sin seen with the privation of sanctifying grace which can be seen as original justice or justification which in turn the privation of grace itself constitutes a moral deformity? The idea of casuality is represented by an effect of Divince Cause? Elaborate explanation if Adam voided faecal matter?
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Oct 22, 2016 15:04
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AmyL posted:Like what? Teaching grace as a created phenomenon? Original pair seen with the privation of sanctifying grace which can be seen as original justice or justification which in turn the privation of grace itself constitutes a moral deformity? The idea of casuality is represented by an effect of Divince Cause? Elaborate explanation if Adam voided faecal matter? i always confuse those two's names
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Oct 22, 2016 15:05
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HEY GAL posted:poo poo! augustine No no. You are right with Aquinas since he used some of Augustine's teachings like Adam and Eve not having sexual relations before they were booted out of Paradise because they didn't have time or were waiting for a specific command from God.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:08
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HEY GAL posted:poo poo! augustine I can't blame you, I used to do the same thing
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Oct 22, 2016 15:08
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HEY GAL posted:i was not kidding when i said you and Man Whore might enjoy having a study group / prayer group over PMs or something. you know--at least there's two of you where two or three are shitposting in my name there I am in the midst of them
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Oct 22, 2016 15:13
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also i'm like 90% sure that Deus Ex also mixed up their names, its bugged me for a while
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Oct 22, 2016 15:13
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StashAugustine posted:also i'm like 90% sure that Deus Ex also mixed up their names, its bugged me for a while They did. Aquinas' mythical city on the hill just sounds cooler though so I'll let it slide.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:20
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StashAugustine posted:where two or three are shitposting in my name there I am in the midst of them But the Moderator, the Red Hammer, whom the Lowtax will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that the Forum Rules said to you.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:25
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Mo Tzu posted:I can't blame you, I used to do the same thing
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Oct 22, 2016 15:44
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The Phlegmatist posted:They did. Aquinas' mythical city on the hill just sounds cooler though so I'll let it slide. my local college church is St Thomas Aquinas and I smile a little every time I connect to the Aquinas wifi
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Oct 22, 2016 15:45
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The Phlegmatist posted:They did. Aquinas' mythical city on the hill just sounds cooler though so I'll let it slide.
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Oct 22, 2016 15:45
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hey now bob page was in pretty decent shape although perhaps that explains the chesterton allusions 
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Oct 22, 2016 15:46
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I am never ashamed to admit that I first learned about Chesterton through Deus Ex. edit: oh snap, it's happening to me 
Caufman fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 16:12
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HEY GAL posted:it's full of fat nerds please don't shame our dead gay forums like that StashAugustine posted:although perhaps that explains the chesterton allusions I'm the transhumanist anarchist leaving around conspicuous G. K. Chesterton excerpts for some reason. e: here's the Ehrman/Price debate it's at 5:16 and don't bother watching the rest unless you want to see a lot of embarrassing shoe atheism The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Oct 22, 2016 |
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Oct 22, 2016 16:39
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Public service announcement for any Los Angeles Episcopal liturgoons. You can see videos from our Bishop candidates here: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC7fG2HgbT_s1c7Jm-fXrXNw
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Oct 23, 2016 00:58
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wait so does the laity get to vote on the bishop? the anglican/episcopalian polity continues to amaze me.
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Oct 23, 2016 03:44
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I helped run the mixer/sound for a small fundraising thing tonight that was being held at a Unitarian Universalist """"church"""". I don't know which part I disagree with more, Unitarianism or Universalism, but everything about the hall, which resembled a converted aircraft hangar, made me upset on a personal level. I guess I'm intolerant. Or a bigot. Maybe both? Any of you have HOT TAKES on Unitarian Universalism for me to better understand them, beyond my cursory wiki reading?
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Oct 23, 2016 06:00
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hey everyone, if i could get some prayers for my brother, that would be really awesome. he just took the really courageous step of checking into an intensive depression treatment program. it looks like it'll do great things for him, but it's also probably not going to be easy.
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Oct 23, 2016 06:08
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Bel_Canto posted:hey everyone, if i could get some prayers for my brother, that would be really awesome. he just took the really courageous step of checking into an intensive depression treatment program. it looks like it'll do great things for him, but it's also probably not going to be easy. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, Have Mercy. Ceciltron posted:I helped run the mixer/sound for a small fundraising thing tonight that was being held at a Unitarian Universalist """"church"""". I don't know which part I disagree with more, Unitarianism or Universalism, but everything about the hall, which resembled a converted aircraft hangar, made me upset on a personal level. I guess I'm intolerant. Or a bigot. Maybe both? One of my favorite professors in school is a Unitarian Universalist. She was raised Catholic and is very feminist. I asked her if she knew the joke about UU being a support group rather than a religion and she got mad. 
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Oct 23, 2016 06:17
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Bel_Canto posted:hey everyone, if i could get some prayers for my brother, that would be really awesome. he just took the really courageous step of checking into an intensive depression treatment program. it looks like it'll do great things for him, but it's also probably not going to be easy. Depression's a terrifying monster. Good on him. A prayer doesn't hurt either, so a prayer I will offer.
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Oct 23, 2016 06:24
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Ceciltron posted:I helped run the mixer/sound for a small fundraising thing tonight that was being held at a Unitarian Universalist """"church"""". I don't know which part I disagree with more, Unitarianism or Universalism, but everything about the hall, which resembled a converted aircraft hangar, made me upset on a personal level. I guess I'm intolerant. Or a bigot. Maybe both? I went to the graduate theological union for my master's degree, and they had a Unitarian Universalist seminary as part of their union. So, I took a few classes at their seminary. They were doing pretty good, progressive theology, if a bit hippie dippie at times. If it weren't for the class on interreligious perspectives on LGBT issues I wouldn't have gotten published, I'll tell you that for free. And then who would bookforum.com have linked to as part of their omnivore blog series? Someone else, probably. Though there was some kinda controversy at the UU seminary I never understood where someone released e-mails they received about their president search, and so the seminary withheld the degrees of two students who, from what I understood, they had only circumstantial evidence that they were involved. Like those were e-mails sent in confidence to not the general student population or something? I never understood caring that much about how a school selected who was in charge. My senior year undergrad and my last two years seminary the deans of each institution retired, and I could give a rat's rear end who got the job. Not like I was going to be there. Though the really confusing thing was finding out there was some kinda UU reconciliation process which involves a reconciliation officer or something. I know because the students who weren't allowed to graduate complained that the seminary hadn't followed it
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Oct 23, 2016 11:29
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Ceciltron posted:I helped run the mixer/sound for a small fundraising thing tonight that was being held at a Unitarian Universalist """"church"""". I don't know which part I disagree with more, Unitarianism or Universalism, but everything about the hall, which resembled a converted aircraft hangar, made me upset on a personal level. I guess I'm intolerant. Or a bigot. Maybe both? Why would the hall make you so upset? Was it the way they decorated it inside?
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Oct 23, 2016 13:12
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Bel_Canto posted:hey everyone, if i could get some prayers for my brother, that would be really awesome. he just took the really courageous step of checking into an intensive depression treatment program. it looks like it'll do great things for him, but it's also probably not going to be easy. Gladly. St. John of God is one of the patrons for those suffering depression.
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Oct 23, 2016 14:42
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AmyL posted:Why would the hall make you so upset? Was it the way they decorated it inside? Well, yes.
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Oct 23, 2016 15:13
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Ceciltron posted:Any of you have HOT TAKES on Unitarian Universalism for me to better understand them, beyond my cursory wiki reading? OK if Christianity is Socialism the Orthodox are Mensheviks the Catholics are Stalinists, the Lutherans are Trots, the Calvinists are anarcho syndicalist, and the unitarians are crystal healers. Mormons are mussolini c. 1919 Edit: I know barely anything about these different branches of socialism I just wanted to make a joke. Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 15:42
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Ceciltron posted:Well, yes. I have been to communities that set up their churches in unconventional places starting out so I have some idea but how bad was it inside? If you do not want to say anything more about it, I understand but I have been to strip malls, megachurches, industrial foundries, row homes and other unconventional places so I am curious now about it
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Oct 23, 2016 16:30
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:OK if Christianity is Socialism the Orthodox are Mensheviks the Catholics are Stalinists, the Lutherans are Trots, the Calvinists are anarcho syndicalist, and the unitarians are crystal healers. As an anarcho-syndicalist, I will ask you to refrain from making the comparison, it would make both anarchists and calvinists sad 
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Oct 23, 2016 16:35
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HEY GAL posted:i don't know anything about this in particular, i just remember that paladinus said that in their experience russian theologians drew on aquinas. none of the russians i've read have been obviously influenced by him, but then again i wouldn't have read them if they had. ask paladinus if you want anything more specific I'd like to clarify that a bit. There is a brand of Russian Orthodox who believe that Russian theology was tainted by Catholicism in the 18-19th century, and that the real Orthodoxy is that only expressed essentially by people who spoke Old Slavonic at least four centuries ago plus people like Ignaty Bryanchaninov and John of Kronstadt (notoriously anti-Catholic figures). And obviously I may be biased here with my own papism, but I think they are wrong about it, and everyone can only profit from reading Berdyaev, Lossky, Solovyov, and many other more contemporary Russian theologians. However, the problems those more 'conservative' Russian Orthodox have with some Russian theologians are rarely related to original sin. In fact, as I'm not a big expert on Orthodoxy outside of ROC (and even then not an expert at all), the whole idea that other Orthodox churches may not believe in original sin is very alien to me. One of the influential dogmatic writings of the Russian church created by Peter Mogila specifically to help distance Orthodoxy both from Protestantism and Catholicism all the way back in the 17th century called The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church is very explicit about original sin, and it was endorsed by four Patriarchs at the time. It has the following to say on the subject (sorry for a crummy translation): quote:Question 20. What is original sin? So the idea is not knew and at least by the 17th century it wasn't even particularly controversial. Was the idea really borrowed from Catholicism and Aquinas specifically? I wouldn't be able to say that. E: Just saw the correction. Augustine is definitely a big name in Russian Orthodoxy. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 17:04
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The Phlegmatist posted:wait so does the laity get to vote on the bishop? the anglican/episcopalian polity continues to amaze me. Some! Each parish sends a delegation to the convention. Most of that is lay people (by most I mean three of our five, for example). All the delegations from the diocesan churches will vote for the Bishop, so the laity have about half the votes at the end of the day I think. Will update that is someone tells me otherwise.
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Oct 23, 2016 17:14
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quote:There are two faults at which Christ glances, and which he intended to condemn, -- wicked confidence in ourselves, and the pride of despising brethren, the one of which springs out of the other. It is impossible that he who deceives himself with vain confidence should not lift himself up above his brethren. Nor is it wonderful that it should be so; for how should that man not despise his equals, who vaunts against God himself? Every man that is puffed up with self-confidence carries on open war with God, to whom we cannot be reconciled in any other way than by denial of ourselves; that is, by laying aside all confidence in our own virtue and righteousness, and relying on his mercy alone. I take it this dude is staying home on Nov. 8?
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Oct 23, 2016 17:15
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Ceciltron posted:I helped run the mixer/sound for a small fundraising thing tonight that was being held at a Unitarian Universalist """"church"""". I don't know which part I disagree with more, Unitarianism or Universalism, but everything about the hall, which resembled a converted aircraft hangar, made me upset on a personal level. I guess I'm intolerant. Or a bigot. Maybe both? Most of them probably don't have a deep commitment to unitarianism or universalism or any Christian doctrine at all
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Oct 23, 2016 18:39
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of course they don't have a deep commitment to christian dogma, they're not christian
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Oct 23, 2016 18:50
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Mo Tzu posted:of course they don't have a deep commitment to christian dogma, they're not christian Well, some of them are. But yeah, I think they're pretty far from their roots in actual unitarianism or universalism.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:11
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You could probably say the same about modern-day liberal Quakers. Forgetting all about their Christian roots led some younger Quakers to lead a sort of counter-revolution within the denomination trying to get them to start being doctrinal Christians again. Of course, it mostly failed (as far as I know) and they're all Progressive Pentecostals now. Which is...an interesting movement to say the least. Liberation theology and speaking in tongues? Well then.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:12
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The Phlegmatist posted:Liberation theology and speaking in tongues? Well then.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:16
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