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Mr. Tambo posted:
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Oct 23, 2016 00:23
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It IS dumb, yes, but it's what I've got to work with, so I'm treating it as a personal challenge. A really loving dumb, arbitrary challenge. So far I'm thinking of going with a human infernal warlock. Hoping to coast on temp hp and the lucky feat. I wonder if I'll be allowed to bring a sheaf of dudes to play. Maybe warlock jones iv will live to see level 2.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:26
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You get one respec at any point before you hit level five. You can change literally everything but your character name. Their excuse for making everyone start at level one is they don't want newer players to be thrust into a higher level character without knowing how to play. Which is understandable but leaves people who have played before in the lurch. I'm ignoring that rule (and several other league rules) until the person in charge catches me. Either I talk my way out of it or they put their foot down and then I quit, leaving 5-7 players without a GM. 5E is serious business! Edit: Warlock is a lot of fun. I went Half elf fit various reasons but Tiefling is fun as well. False Life will help you survive till around level 3 when you want to switch it out for something else. Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 00:29
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Pleads posted:What do you mean rebuild? New characters start at level 1 as well and I don't think they let you "respec" They let you respec. quote:We recognize that many players start out with a pregenerated character, or might try out a character class, race, or other option, and then decide later on that it wasn’t the play experience they were looking for. As such, characters in the first tier (levels 1–4) can be rebuilt after any episode or adventure. A player cannot change a character’s name, but can rebuild the character using the rules as presented in this document. The character keeps all experience, treasure, equipment, magic items, downtime, and faction renown earned to that point.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:31
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Well, good luck, Mr. Tambo. Please let us know how it goes! Now, as a new player that doesn't know a lot, I have a question about Warlocks. How are they good people? Like, they made a pact with a devil or whatever, right? How does that not just immediately thrust them into CE or whatever? CN at best? And, to dog pile on top of that, how are Clerics evil? I don't know a lot of high fantasy or anything but it seems like these two classes, especially, would have baked in alignment. Oh, and Paladins too, I guess? The PHB, MM, and DMG all just arrived at my house, finally, so I will be reading through them but I haven't read through all of it yet. I am not opposed to a "It just does" answer but flavor-wise I was curious. Thanks.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:38
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Alignment is bad design and should be ignored. Warlocks have a choice between; literally Cthulu, the Archfey, and, I think, an Infernal. I don't have my book in front of me but you don't mechanically have to go out and do evil things. You get your abilities in exchange for *nebulous reasons that may or may not ever come up in roleplay*. Evil Clerics exist by worshipping an evil god, simple as that. They have a few more abilities that cause harm instead of healing but can use both I believe.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:49
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Clerics can worship gods or ideals that are not good just as easily as good. D&D alignment is real dumb if you think about it too hard anyways. Similarly there are all sorts of patrons for warlocks to draw power from, running the full spectrum of good and evil. Lastly Paladins, thankfully, are about adhering to a code and not just divine champions anymore. One of the Oaths is more or less the dumb old Lawful Good style though if that's what you dig.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:49
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From the Complete SRD app I have: The Fiend You have made a pact with a fiend from the lower planes of existence, a being whose aims are evil, even if you strive against those aims. Such beings desire the corruption or destruction of all things, ultimately including you. Fiends powerful enough to forge a pact include demon lords such as Demogorgon, Orcus, Fraz'Urb-luu, and Baphomet; archdevils such as Asmodeus, Dispater, Mephistopheles, and Belial; pit fiends and balors that are especially mighty; and ultroloths and other lords of the yugoloths. Again, it bears repeating that alignment, as a mechanic, is awful and causes way too many problems.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:52
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I think it's generally best not to treat the warlock's patron like his/her shift manager, constantly watching for misbehavior. Most of the patrons are immensely powerful beings with multi-planar responsibilities, and they're not going to concern themselves too much over one mortal walking around with a tiny fraction of their power, any more than Mark Cuban is gonna care if an intern at one of his companies is swiping paper clips.
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Oct 23, 2016 01:12
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My character always rationalized it as "Cthulu is on his way and will devour this world." Could be next week, could be millennia from now. My job is to try and prepare the world for his coming. This involves killing anyone who might be able to challenge him and mentally preparing people to accept their fate without despair. Might as well start with the beings that I can easily recruit help for; Strahd as an example.
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Oct 23, 2016 01:19
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Selachian posted:I think it's generally best not to treat the warlock's patron like his/her shift manager, constantly watching for misbehavior. Are you saying Bill Lumbergh isn't the demon lord of micromanagement? "Hey ... Selachian, what's happening? You know, if you could just put those new cover sheets on your invocation scrolls, that'd be just great"
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Oct 23, 2016 01:39
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Mr. Tambo posted:I wonder if I'll be allowed to bring a sheaf of dudes to play. Maybe warlock jones iv will live to see level 2.
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Oct 23, 2016 02:16
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Cool, thanks for your input. I think alignment is neat but it does end up making matters really complicated if you really hold everyone to it really hard. Edit: gently caress chaotic, though. "Oh, I'm chaotic so I can just do whatever." Anyway, I'd like to ask some advice about a group member this time. Like, what you would do? Is my thinking in the wrong? So a small group of friends and I are playing through the starter set with the starter characters. 4PCs. We've gone a few sessions and it's been fine although everyone is pretty passive because it's all our first time (except the DM who has played once before, 3.5e) and no one is really RPing that hard because it's whatever. Sometimes I change my voice and sometimes I ask for extra gold because I'm a halfing-rogue, that's about it. We were playing at a game store in one of their back rooms that they let players rent out (for free) and this girl walks in unannounced. She's like "Oh, are you guys playing 5e?" Now, generally speaking we're all pretty passive people. Everyone (except for me) thought that she knew one of the other people there and didn't really wanna make waves. She proceeded to ask if she could sit in and we were ok with it. Then she started talking to us as we were playing and telling us what she would do in any given situation. It was weird. Most people were sorta ignoring her except for the DM's wife because maybe she felt sorry for her or something? Anyway, we wrap up and she asks if we want a fifth. I defer to everyone else who all defer to the DM who's like "Sure, couldn't hurt!" I asked her why she didn't want to play with the Adventurer's League (happening at the same time we're playing and they also just started the Starter Set) and she said she didn't like point buy or whatever. It was a complete throw away remark for me but it raised red flags later. At our next session she's there. We're all level 2 with starter characters but instead of taking the last starter character she has her own. It's a Tiefling Monk or some poo poo. The DM had talked to her about running other people's turns since that's what she was doing when we first met so I thought maybe everything would go smoothly? I had to sit next to her and it loving sucked. She would say things out loud as if in reply to a question that no one asked her, she would show off all her dice (like, a fucktonne of them. Just take her huge dice bag and up-end it) to pick out new ones when she felt like she was rolling bad. She told the story of how she won all these dice from a -blah blah blah even though no one asked. I caught a glance at her stats at one point since she seemed really good at pretty much everything, they were all super high. I don't think anything was below a 12? That's when it clicked for me. She didn't like point buy // array at Adventurer's League because how are you supposed to make your all max stats guy that way? She was rather domineering when it came to the RP side and sometimes it helped because no one really knew how to move things forward but at other times it was really annoying because I'd like a few of the quieter players in the group to get more involved with the campaign. Like, if my friends aren't going to feel invested in playing D&D they will likely stop playing or come out of obligation and I'd rather have everyone having fun. I think the thing that really irked me the most is how she would just grab loot as soon as it was found. We had found some gold and two rubies and she's like "I have to have those rubies." Up until this point, we've been splitting everything pretty evenly between all of us but she really wanted those two rubies. We rolled to see if we could figure out how much they were worth but everyone was terrible at rolling and we didn't know. I was against giving her both of them. This turned into a couple minute thing where she's like "But I need them because my character is red and she loves everything that is red." She turns to the DM and asks him "Is PvP allowed" and my DM was like "I mean, its your guys' game. Whatever you guys decide." And she asks to take me aside and tells me that she really, really wants the rubies. She'll pass on the gold for the rubies. She tells me she's actually a part of a spy network and has a bunch of powerful allies, yada yada. I tell her if we get the rest of the treasure on this adventure I'm fine giving up two rubies. She agrees and we shake on it. We kill some bandits or whatever and they have ruby earrings so she says she immediately snatches the earrings off of them. More of the same but whatever; if she gives up everything else that isn't red so be it. So, things are going ok until we get to a bridge. She refuses to cross it while the rest of us do. We're discussing about where to go next and whatever and she doesn't want to cross the bridge and insists that she's looking down into the pit. She says, "Unless the halfling is going to push me into it! But he knows that I have powerful friends in high places!" to which I replied that I'm pretty good at making myself scarce. She continued, "But even if that were the case you'd have a vengeful demon ancestor coming for you!" (Come the gently caress ON with this edgelord poo poo. Jesus.) Then the DM is like "Oh, I forgot! Who was on the bridge first? It falls." So, obviously meta-gaming the situation which was really annoying (both in not crossing the bridge and looking for the treasure chest). The Fighter discovered a treasure chest down there and amongst the gold there was a scroll and a sword. She immediately hops down to grab those things. The Fighter says "No, I'm holding onto them first, I want to inspect them." Our DM lets the Fighter roll and we find that the sword is a +1 longsword or whatever. The Monk says she snatches the scroll to inspect it. The DM allows her to roll perception or whatever to inspect it. Fails. She rolls again, fails. (Here, I thought, why would you let someone keep rolling? If you do that then there's literally no reason to even ask for a roll.) The Fighter says she wants to give the scroll to the Wizard because she's most likely to use it. The Monk is defensive and said that she only wanted to identify it (just like how she 'only' wanted to identify the sword). She says that she knows a blacksmith that can keep the magical properties of the hilt of the sword and integrate it into a monk weapon so maybe she should have it. (Is this even a real thing?) Now, within my group of friends I'm the only player here that tries to optimize my character and actually reads my character sheet. Like, every combat they forget where to find their AC or what their attack bonus is, and what it means, and what die to roll to make an attack. I don't think it's TOO bad since it's everyone's first time and having to know all your poo poo can be intimidating for a first time player unless you're really into gaming. So, the Fighter (the ranged specialized one that has been using melee for most battles), decides that we should give the +1 Longsword to the Wizard. Our Wizard likes to melee a lot (yeah. So far in every combat we've been in I've probably dealt an upwards of 70% of the damage because of sneak attacks and not immediately exposing myself to a bunch of mobs) and apparently is proficient in Longswords so that's why she gets it. I really don't care if characters are played sub-optimally if we're all having fun and I think it's amusing to have my friend play a Battle Mage (she used to play WoW and would do the same thing. Fireball for 3k damage or run up to an enemy and hit it for a glancing 2 damage? Melee. Every. Time.). But the Monk has just really been rustling my jimmies. She'll often say the rules are one way (which the DM isn't sure about because it's hard to have encyclopedic knowledge of a new game) when they're not. She'll often cite older versions of rules and I'll have to correct her on it. Like, over and over. Just,... ugh. I think here, it's important to state that I don't like this because she states it like it's absolutely true. Not "Oh, I think it might be X." I can forgive something like that. But "Oh, I've been playing D&D for years and years and this is what it is" is some bullshit. Our session ended at about the end of my story. We all parted ways and the rest of my group was like "Oh, she was much better than last time!" but I'm really not feeling it. Everyone likes her being there because she's more experienced and they kinda look up to that but I think it's a bit more fun to do your own type of exploration. D&D isn't made to be played in one very specific manner (I use my 10 foot pole to tap every tile while also checking for trapped ceilings and invisible doors) but in a way that's fluid and fun for everyone at the table. They do share my concern that she's weird and controlly but we were in a noisy area this time (the room was already rented out to someone else) so I'm not sure if they heard all her stupid inane poo poo that was irking me. So, if you've made it this far, I apologize for the long lovely story and how I don't know how to grammar or keep a tense. I'm not a story writer, man. Am I being way up-tight about this poo poo? I mean, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities that I'm being too uptight about this. It seems like any one person in our group would be able to veto playing with her again if they're not comfortable with it because no one is super attached to having her there but I don't wanna just kick a player for a reason that could be seen as minor. I personally feel like we've given her a fair shake, though. If y'all think I'm just being a sperglord on a freakout lemme know. But, otherwise, I feel like what she contributes to the group doesn't outweigh what I dislike about her and her character. TL;DR: New player at the table and she's really annoying me. The other players are neutral or slightly south of neutral on her. Should I ask to have her kicked or am I just sperg'n out hard?
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Oct 23, 2016 02:43
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kill her character
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Oct 23, 2016 04:48
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mastershakeman posted:kill her character
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Oct 23, 2016 04:50
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With rubies
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Oct 23, 2016 04:56
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Have you tried... Telling her she's coming off really strong and asking her to dial it back? It's not as fun as "rocks fall, go gently caress yourself," but I know everyone in this thread knows that one turbonerd that makes up for their crippling insecurity by being insanely overbearing. Either (1)she'll think you're being a dick and stop hanging around, (2) she'll take your feedback to heart and you have a semi-experienced player to help guide new people or (3) she continues being annoying; in which case, gently caress her you tried.
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Oct 23, 2016 05:51
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Hey guys, remember when 5e was gonna have ~modules~?
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Oct 23, 2016 06:01
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I would suggest talking to the DM first before going to talk to her. Part of being a DM is making sure no one hogs the spotlight and everyone has fun. And allowing a player to bigfoot the DM's authority to determine rulings, in a game like 5E that operates heavily on DM rulings, is asking for trouble. For me, the biggest red flag is her asking "is PVP allowed," assuming she was serious. There are some groups that can deal with PVP without hard feelings, and some RPGs even cater to that style of play, but it's definitely not something I would want to do in a group that I just joined. Give her a chance to dial it back. If not, 
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Oct 23, 2016 06:14
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The main thing to remember about warlocks is that blade pact is a loving trash fire unless you take a single level of fighter (and even then is mostly not great), and eldritch blast is frankly disgusting and can be put into pretty much any charisma character possible, thus leading to warlock 2 being probably the most common multiclass.
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Oct 23, 2016 08:48
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How did Eldritch Blast skate by as it is, it's a pretty amazing level 1 laser that just gets better. BambooEarpick, maybe ask the AL peeps if there's another reason she's no longer playing that?
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Oct 23, 2016 09:34
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ProfessorCirno posted:The main thing to remember about warlocks is that blade pact is a loving trash fire unless you take a single level of fighter (and even then is mostly not great), and eldritch blast is frankly disgusting and can be put into pretty much any charisma character possible, thus leading to warlock 2 being probably the most common multiclass. Taking 2 levels of Rogue with your warlock seems like it could be a lot of fun, with Pact of the Blade. What makes it so bad? Obviously no contest with Eldritch Blast, but they don't seem in any way exclusive to one another. e: BambooEarpick posted:TL;DR: New player at the table and she's really annoying me. The other players are neutral or slightly south of neutral on her. Should I ask to have her kicked or am I just sperg'n out hard? Just tell her to tone it down, nice like. Highlight that everyone else in the group is inexperienced, and it'd be nice if she could give them some space. If that doesn't work or if she somehow doesn't want to do that, zero tolerance that special snowflake poo poo and kick her out of the group immediately. Also your DM needs to put his foot down if this girl and her character are getting in the way of people's fun. Flakey fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 11:01
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Selachian posted:For me, the biggest red flag is her asking "is PVP allowed," assuming she was serious. There are some groups that can deal with PVP without hard feelings, and some RPGs even cater to that style of play, but it's definitely not something I would want to do in a group that I just joined. What raises my alarm bells is her PC carrying around an entire sub-setting where she is the most badass Tiefling in town ("I'm a super spy, with a network of smiths catering to my Monk needs, and my grandpa is a powerful demon, so you better be nice to me!"). I had someone like that before and I gues she's not a jerk on purpose, but it's probably better to reel her in before things get out of hand. If that doesn't work: Is there some kind trap monster that looks like a ruby but will actually kill you if you pick it up? Or have a rival spy network backed by a rival demon lord find out about her ruby obsessing and booby-trap a handful. P.d0t posted:Hey guys, remember when 5e was gonna have ~modules~? Isn't 5e like supposed to be 100% compatible with everything that has ever come before? Then you don't need new modules. Genius! Doresh fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 11:21
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BambooEarpick posted:TL;DR: New player at the table and she's really annoying me. The other players are neutral or slightly south of neutral on her. Should I ask to have her kicked or am I just sperg'n out hard? Ok, first, do not kill her character. Ever. Real-world problems require real-world solutions, otherwise you get into some weird passive-aggressive bullshit. That's a can of worms you don't want to open. From your side of the story it sounds like a typical wish fulfillment power fantasy gone overboard. She probably likes being the center of attention and uses her own head-canon (powerful demon grandpa) to enforce it. All of that is... not ideal, but the question whether PVP is allowed over the rubies is a problem. If that was a serious option in her mind, then she is willing to sacrifice your enjoyment of the game for the sake of imaginary red trinkets. That is not ok. That said, fitting in with a new group can be difficult. It sounds like she's only been around for one real session where she played? I would give her a chance to mellow out with one or two more sessions. Maybe she's just nervous and runs her mouth all the time with whatever pops in her head. If the problem persists, talk it over with the DM and find a real-world based solution (e.g. talk to her, warn her, or remove her from the group). Do not take it out on her character, that will not end well for anyone involved.
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Oct 23, 2016 14:13
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That's probably a lot more sensible. I hope she can be talked to, I dunno, slow down with the rad demon super spy stuff and have her workd to get it during the campaign.
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Oct 23, 2016 15:30
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Have the DM make a Ruby mimic that eats all of her rubies when she puts it in her bag.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:38
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Nasgate posted:Have the DM make a Ruby mimic that eats all of her rubies when she puts it in her bag. Awaken the rubies, bringing forth an aggressively hegemonizing rubine swarm.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:44
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BambooEarpick posted:Well, good luck, Mr. Tambo. Please let us know how it goes! To be more clear, iirc one of the source books specifically talks about alignment. It mentions that you might have an evil patron like an infernal that requires you to feed him souls. As a good character you feed him the souls of bandits and other evil humanoids. You justify giving him power by believing that you're causing power struggles, ultimately weakening evil via civil wars.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:48
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Now that gives me an idea for a pact. The oppurtunist. Where you leech off all this magic being floated around willy nilly. Tapping into the static, per se.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:54
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Now that gives me an idea for a pact. Vancian Craigslist.
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Oct 23, 2016 17:38
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You will know that you've walked into a situation that can't be resolved with gentle DM/Player negotiation if she begins blaming her bad gaming on her character's personality. I have seen this defense ("It's not me! Villa is just like that!" or "Sometimes Ungot just had to smash things") more times than I care to count and the best solution is to ask them if they want to make another character, leave the game, or agree to some ground rules. It may also be helpful to encourage your group to agree to some table rules before next game. Not houserules - table rules. Things that govern not only what to do if a die lands cocked, but what are some plot or party dynamics that might cause a person to walk away from the table. It isn't and shouldn't be a democratic process; everybody contributes to the shared expectations of what game is supposed to look like. That usually can help curb a bad player, but not always.
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Oct 23, 2016 17:46
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BambooEarpick posted:And, to dog pile on top of that, how are Clerics evil? This is a much easier question, so I'll tackle it first: Why would the high priestess of Torog, the god of torturing innocent people to death over hundreds of years and then torturing their souls in his Underdark prisons for all eternity, not be evil? How about a cultist of Tharizdun, whose three sacred commandments are "Spread pain and death indiscriminately", "Kill the good gods and their servants", and "Free me so that I can destroy the universe and remake it to contain nothing but suffering"? If D&D clerics all only worshipped a single Lawful Good creator god who commanded his servants to do nothing but good and watched carefully to make sure they were doing it, yeah, they would probably all be Good. But the D&D universe is full of awful horrible gods who want you to do the exact opposite of that and only grant healing spells when it's to heal convicted murderers so that they can do more terrible murdering, and they all have clerics too. quote:Now, as a new player that doesn't know a lot, I have a question about Warlocks. How are they good people? Like, they made a pact with a devil or whatever, right? How does that not just immediately thrust them into CE or whatever? CN at best? This is a trickier one, but there are a bunch of options.
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Oct 23, 2016 18:11
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Yeah. had a player like that at my FLGS. Would eat loudly, talk over people, and RP in a way that interfered with group plans, and using "push" style cheats. DMs would let her play but would try passive-aggressive stuff in game to get her to leave. Last time I checked that player was on the DM's list and there were about a quarter as many tables. Trying to fix OOC issues with PvP or other in-game solutions is fun for like an hour but winds up poisoning tables.
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Oct 23, 2016 18:57
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how is someone allowed to just show up at a table and declare their character is demon royalty and insanely rich and bla blah blah?
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Oct 23, 2016 19:02
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mastershakeman posted:how is someone allowed to just show up at a table and declare their character is demon royalty and insanely rich and bla blah blah? Man, I once had one who would come up with the weirdest kind of characters, like some kind of shaman dude or a weird alien, all rambling in a weird slang. (All pbp though. Would've probably strangled him if he was sitting beside me.)
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Oct 23, 2016 19:08
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Iny posted:Lovecraftian entities are known for doing things that don't make any sense to mortals at all (so perhaps you get terrible dreams of eldritch power and nightmares about the sky opening up to reveal a hundred million huge staring eyes and you have no idea why) And whenever you look back at them they all blush and look away and call you a baka
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Oct 23, 2016 19:22
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Elfgames posted:And whenever you look back at them they all blush and look away and call you a baka I kinda wanna run a session in Otaku Innsmouth, where the villagers whorship Nyarlathotep and have all turned into catgirls. That name's just begging to kawaii it up some.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:24
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Flakey posted:Taking 2 levels of Rogue with your warlock seems like it could be a lot of fun, with Pact of the Blade. What makes it so bad? Obviously no contest with Eldritch Blast, but they don't seem in any way exclusive to one another. Exactly as you just said; it's no contest with Eldritch Blast. Basically, there's no reason to ever actually use your eldritch blade. The blast will more or less always be better. The pact itself offers little to nothing to help you actually stand on the front lines and not die, either, as 5e is built around dexterity not being an equal option to strength when in melee (thus the need for one level of fighter). Warlock in general has the problem of being entirely dippable because of it's design; a Warlock 2, Sorcerer 18 will more or less always be better. Blade Pact just adds salt to this by pumping you up to use a rad magic weapon in melee, then does absolutely nothing to support it.
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Oct 23, 2016 20:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:Exactly as you just said; it's no contest with Eldritch Blast. Yeah that's a good point. For flavor I think said warlock using the Thirsting Blade invocation could be pretty fun, more so with a cool magic rapier or something.
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Oct 23, 2016 20:51
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Thanks for your input on everything, everyone. Classes and their interactions with alignments make more sense to me now. As for the annoying girl, we wouldn't kill off her character, that's a bit much. I'm apprehensive about having her there again because she had already been talked to once by the DM before we started but I suppose if I don't have to sit next to her next time I can ignore all of her weird quips and it won't be so bad.
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Oct 23, 2016 21:06
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