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Serf posted:From my point of view, blowing up planets is savage behavior. Deffo not gonna argue this one. Tarkin is not a good man.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:32
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There's the question of normativity but let's not have this conversation.
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Oct 22, 2016 22:44
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the ewoks are basically the 'savage pygmy tribe' trope except as teddy bears, which makes them at minimum as racist as anything in tpm
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Oct 22, 2016 22:57
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euphronius posted:Ewoks weren't eating ewoks. Han, Luke, Leia and Chewie enjoying Ewok kabob after blowing up the second death star would be really messed up.
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Oct 22, 2016 23:08
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The Ewoks also had a bunch of weapons ready to go outside the back door of the bunker, so they probably were planning their feast of aliens in revenge for Imperial activities.
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Oct 23, 2016 00:23
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Just because Ewoks are savage doesn't mean they can't be noble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage
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Oct 23, 2016 00:34
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Serf posted:From my point of view, blowing up planets is savage behavior. So both groups are savage. Another win for the star wars thread!
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Oct 23, 2016 02:48
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spacetoaster posted:So both groups are savage. Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru are savages. From a certain point of view.
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Oct 23, 2016 03:49
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Page 666 approaches... Has Satan been found within the Star Wars yet?
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Oct 23, 2016 03:50
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Raxivace posted:Page 666 approaches... he was in mos eisley cantina it's no big.
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Oct 23, 2016 04:27
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UmOk posted:Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru are savages. From a certain point of view. Is there some back story with them being violent that I'm unaware of?
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Oct 23, 2016 04:48
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I am sincerely learning a lot from this thread. I didn't know savage had immediate racist connotations.
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Oct 23, 2016 05:08
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feedmyleg posted:I've long maintained that everything that takes place on the Death Star II is as good as most stuff in Empire. I thought McDiarmid was awful in Jedi. He was more like a snotty troll than a master of evil. I think the best line I heard about his performance and the script was that he was like an older father telling his college student son that it was inevitable that he'd grow up to be a Republican. All of this made how great he was in the prequels shocking. In the prequels, he's a guy who is seeing 1000 years of scheming and planning coming to fruition and he's in ecstasy. In Jedi he's more, "Nyah nyah nyah." Then there's the awful lightsaber choreography made all the worse by how it was shot. Even little things like Luke doing that dramatic jump and force grab of his lightsaber when he's standing like two feet away; still makes me laugh every time I see it.
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Oct 23, 2016 06:20
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Raxivace posted:Page 666 approaches... Meesa coming back!
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Oct 23, 2016 06:29
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Filthy Casual posted:Commanding C3PO to pose as one of their deities. There's definitely worse ways to avoid being eaten, but that leads into the question of why the first primitive society depicted in SW has an overwhelming need to eat other sentient beings. Just rubs me the wrong way, especially when they make a point of subverting expectations like that in other entries (see: Gungans). I thought them being vicious teddy bears was the subversion?
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Oct 23, 2016 08:42
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ungulateman posted:the ewoks are basically the 'savage pygmy tribe' trope except as teddy bears, which makes them at minimum as heightist as anything in tpm
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Oct 23, 2016 08:42
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Filthy Casual posted:Commanding C3PO to pose as one of their deities. There's definitely worse ways to avoid being eaten, but that leads into the question of why the first primitive society depicted in SW has an overwhelming need to eat other sentient beings. Just rubs me the wrong way, especially when they make a point of subverting expectations like that in other entries (see: Gungans). Well, it's just one of those tropes you find in these sorts of stories. Remember that Lucas was raised on stuff like Edgar Rice Burroughs stories and Scrooge McDuck comics, which had much worse stuff. I guess it's probably not worth getting into an argument about how much of a remove you have to be from the earnestness with which those tropes were employed in the past before you can homage them, or if you're even allowed to homage them in any way. But as for C-3PO "posing" as one of their deities....who are we to say he was even posing? It's ultimately a matter of semantics. The Ewoks themselves recognized him as their deity. I'm sure if the characters were to say to the Ewoks, "No, C-3PO is actually just an artificial man which we constructed out of metal", the Ewoks would just stare at them blankly and say, "....So? He's our god." Raxivace posted:Page 666 approaches... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Saesee_Tiin His buddies call him Sae, and he's infiltrated the Jedi Council. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 11:12
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rear end Catchcum posted:I am sincerely learning a lot from this thread. I didn't know savage had immediate racist connotations. It doesn't - people are idiots. NOTHING MEANS NOTHING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4lK41SX-Q
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Oct 23, 2016 16:00
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Cnut the Great posted:But as for C-3PO "posing" as one of their deities....who are we to say he was even posing? It's ultimately a matter of semantics. The Ewoks themselves recognized him as their deity. I'm sure if the characters were to say to the Ewoks, "No, C-3PO is actually just an artificial man which we constructed out of metal", the Ewoks would just stare at them blankly and say, "....So? He's our god." Or they'd brand them deceivers and eat them with more fervor. Then 3PO and R2 would form more impressive percussion instruments than even the Imperial helmets. There were options to do a lot of stuff with that section of the story, so its fair to ask why it needed to be this thing, specifically.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:07
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rear end Catchcum posted:I am sincerely learning a lot from this thread. I didn't know savage had immediate racist connotations. Stay woke ungulateman posted:the ewoks are basically the 'savage pygmy tribe' trope except as teddy bears, which makes them at minimum as racist as anything in tpm Bingo.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:16
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Vintersorg posted:It doesn't - people are idiots. The word "savage" by itself isn't racist, but let's not pretend that wasn't (and still is) used to insult Non-Western, nonwhite societies that are considered "uncivilized". Not saying that those societies were above criticism, I'm just saying it's a dog-whistle term.
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Oct 23, 2016 16:56
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Equeen posted:The word "savage" by itself isn't racist, but let's not pretend that wasn't (and still is) used to insult Non-Western, nonwhite societies that are considered "uncivilized". Not saying that those societies were above criticism, I'm just saying it's a dog-whistle term. Is the term barbarian racist too? Asking for a friend.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:19
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This makes my head hurt more than Jar Jar talk. I'm pretty much down with most social arguments. But I really think for most of these things, but don't take words out of context. You all KNOW Jivjov wasn't saying anything racist, or coded, or any of it. Come on. Like, if I called Bounty Hunters a bunch of thugs, that isn't racist in the slightest. Thug isn't a purely racist term unless put into the context. I mean, it means "a violent criminal" or "ruffian or assassin." Like come on yo!
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Oct 23, 2016 19:26
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spacetoaster posted:Is the term barbarian racist too? Asking for a friend. uh yeah the term was pretty much invented as a slur
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Oct 23, 2016 19:26
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spacetoaster posted:Is the term barbarian racist too? Asking for a friend. By itself, no, but in certain contexts it can be.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:34
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'Savage' is exactly like 'female', in that it's usually valid as an adjective but loving dumb when used as a noun 'Barbarian' is fine within the specific context of Conan and Conan-like low fantasy but much like savage shouldn't be applied to real people
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Oct 23, 2016 19:36
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In its original context, the word "barbarian" is literally a disparaging catch-all for members of cultures considered inferior by the speaker. The etymology of the term is onomatopoetic - "bar, bar" is mimicking the sounds sheep make. The idea is that it refers to people whose civilization is so crude that even their language is closer to that of animals than that of people. Its use denotes the speaker as openly chauvinistic and belonging to a culture that regards such chauvinism as appropriate. Like, it is the racist term. I'm not sure it qualifies as a slur, however. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 19:37
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ungulateman posted:'Savage' is exactly like 'female', in that it's usually valid as an adjective but loving dumb when used as a noun Bongo Bill posted:In its original context, the word "barbarian" is literally a disparaging catch-all for members of cultures considered inferior by the speaker. The etymology of the term is onomatopoetic - "bar, bar" is mimicking the sounds sheep make. The idea is that it refers to people whose civilization is so crude that even their language is closer to that of animals than that of people. Yes, these are good posts that better explain what I was trying to say.
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Oct 23, 2016 19:39
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In the context, the ewoks are literally an indigenous people.
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Oct 23, 2016 20:58
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Reminder that the Ewoks were going to roast Han and Luke alive, presumably to then consume. Other adjectives aside; it's not a bad thing for them to have come up with a crafty plan to get out of dying, using the Ewok's reverence for C-3PO to buy time
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Oct 23, 2016 21:05
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It's important to note that after they were free, C-3PO did end up telling them their real story, in which the golden giant who speaks in languages the whole universe can understand is not a god, and that was what convinced them to join the rebellion.
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Oct 23, 2016 21:23
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Some of you are so hatefilled.
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Oct 23, 2016 21:47
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rear end Catchcum posted:Some of you are so hatefilled. are you calling us the real racists?
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Oct 23, 2016 22:16
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The correct term for Ewoks is target practice.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:30
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Star Wars is told by C3PO to the Ewoks right? Ewoks are surrogates.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:45
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The ewoks are as racist as Jar Jar. Re: not at all. That rear end Catchcum feels the need to be offended by one and not the other shows how flawed their argument is. Ewoks speak in broken English in the ewok movies as well, to further compare them with Jar Jar.
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Oct 23, 2016 22:48
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The Ewoks are about as racist as this classic and beloved Indiana Jones moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LesfFv6xEvA&t=117s Which is to say, you could probably construct an argument for it if you really wanted to, but at the end of the day no one actually cares because it's harmless and silly and people just want to watch the drat movie without being implicated in a complicated, multigenerational system of oppression that has virtually nothing to do with naive pulp magazine tropes in a 1970s throwback movie.You might as well complain about his greasy, cowardly, backstabbing Peruvian guide Satipo, played by a light-skinned Englishman in brownface named Alfred Molina. Or Indy's token Arab friend Sallah, played as a bumbling comic relief character by a Welshman. I know, it's easy to say, "Well, people should care about those things," but no one actually does and no one probably ever will, and the reason isn't because people are racist, but because people by and large are smart enough to understand the context these things are being presented in, i.e. as naive homages to pulp stories, comic books, and adventure serials of the 1930-40's. People only miraculously start to notice and care about these things when they're in a movie they have a bone to pick with for other reasons. If you want to watch a more culturally sensitive depiction of a white man encountering indigenous peoples, watch the Young Indiana Jones series or something, which was actually meant to be somewhat reality-based and educational. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 01:49
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I did like how one of the final episodes of Young Indy had him fight straight up Dracula.
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Oct 24, 2016 01:59
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Equeen posted:By itself, no, but in certain contexts it can be. Oh yeah? Have you ever had to deal with the Celts? Sheesh.  I wonder why the artist made them all out as Guy Fieri. Pretty savage stuff. 
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Oct 24, 2016 02:14
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I liked Young Indiana Jones as a kid. It had Picasso faking a painting to show he could and Indy fighting at Verdun and poo poo like that.
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Oct 24, 2016 02:35
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