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spog posted:
I wasn't talking about that diagram, I was talking about the actual wires. If there's only 1 wire going into 4, I assume that it's joined to wires coming off either socket? If they're 13 watt tubes, then the ballast you chose won't work. That one takes 14 watt bulbs at a minimum. I also couldn't find one on UK Amazon that would work either. However, I did find this that according to its data sheet will work with UK power. I know on their website that it's priced in Freedom Units and it's an American company, but it says on that page "Availability: Ships to EU customers in 24 to 48 hours. Can only ship USA/Canada in quantities of 500 or more." which suggests that they ship from the EU at least. If you'd like to search around yourself, you want to look for a "2 x F13T5" ballast. Ballasts usually cover a small range of sizes, wattages and numbers of bulbs, so don't be surprised if you find one that supports more than just your use. Before I forget, match up your wires to the diagram on the new ballast! It looks like wires 3, 4 and 5 on your old ballast are the common lines normally colored yellow in the US. If you need to splice together wires to match the new diagram, then do it.
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Oct 20, 2016 00:28
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kid sinister posted:I wasn't talking about that diagram, I was talking about the actual wires. If there's only 1 wire going into 4, I assume that it's joined to wires coming off either socket? You are a very cool person and I am very grateful. I'm going to have to give it a closer look at the weekend and confirm my assumptions with regards to the actual wiring off 4 Really appreciate the warning about a 14W ballast not working with a 13W bulb - I had assumed that it would not be an issue.
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Oct 20, 2016 00:36
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spog posted:You are a very cool person and I am very grateful. I had a hell of a time finding a ballast that supported a pair of 13 watt T5s. You know, how hard would it be for you to space the sockets wider to support 14 watt T5s? I looked up the length, and 14W T5s are about an inch longer than 13W T5s. That would really open your options for replacement ballasts. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 20, 2016 |
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Oct 20, 2016 01:12
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I have a thermostat (not installed by me) attached to one fan heater in the basement and for various reasons it makes the heater cycle on and off every 3 minutes or so. It's a cheap thermostat and I also think it couldn't have been installed in a worse place in terms of moving air. Is there a simple method of disconnecting the thermostat from the heater so that I can just use the manual knob on the heater? I've tried googling this, but it just gets me to instructions of how to install a new thermostat.
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Oct 23, 2016 03:00
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kuddles posted:I have a thermostat (not installed by me) attached to one fan heater in the basement and for various reasons it makes the heater cycle on and off every 3 minutes or so. It's a cheap thermostat and I also think it couldn't have been installed in a worse place in terms of moving air. Is there a simple method of disconnecting the thermostat from the heater so that I can just use the manual knob on the heater? I've tried googling this, but it just gets me to instructions of how to install a new thermostat.
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Oct 23, 2016 04:27
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kuddles posted:I have a thermostat (not installed by me) attached to one fan heater in the basement and for various reasons it makes the heater cycle on and off every 3 minutes or so. It's a cheap thermostat and I also think it couldn't have been installed in a worse place in terms of moving air. Is there a simple method of disconnecting the thermostat from the heater so that I can just use the manual knob on the heater? I've tried googling this, but it just gets me to instructions of how to install a new thermostat. We actually have an HVAC thread here in DIY. That being said, either your thermostat is going bad, or your place is leaking air horribly if the temperature can change that rapidly enough to affect your thermostat. Edit: thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3761260&pagenumber=6&perpage=40
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Oct 23, 2016 05:06
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Oh, I guess I should specify my instructions apply to the sort of simple thermostat you see attic ventilation fans hooked up to, not the type that control furnaces.
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Oct 23, 2016 13:51
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Wire fill for junction boxes question. I want to have a box that splits a circuit down three separate branches; counting the incoming conductor from the panel, that means using 4 knockouts on a 4"x4" box. Fortunately there's no device on the box; I just have the wires to deal with. They're 12/2 wires, so that's 3 conductors per knockout, right? Plus one for the box ground wire. This calculator says that I'd need a box with an internal volume of 31.5 cubic inches; a 4"x4"x2.125" box has a volume of 34 cubic inches, but I've no idea if that's internal or external or what kind of tolerances are required for extra space. Do I need to get a bigger box?
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Oct 23, 2016 15:27
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Hi guys - I'm not a complete newbie, but electrical is an area that I'm a bit sensitive about. I just had vinyl siding put on the house, and in the process of it being done, I decided to have them keep the old janky front light off so I could replace it with one that wasn't created in 1826. This exposed an issue, however, in that there is no ground wire, or even a freaking junction box. Now, I've been here for about 12 years and never really had a problem with it, but I figure I'd ask. If I replace the light as is (with the addition of a junction box and some proper caps and insulation), how screwed am I without a ground wire? I'm not jumping to pay an electrician to come out and do rewire work since I just paid a ton for the siding. Janky wiring - 
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Oct 23, 2016 21:16
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Medullah posted:Hi guys - Are you sure there's not a junction box behind that weird trim piece? You'd have to have some downright ancient wire for there not to be a ground wire at all.
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Oct 24, 2016 00:38
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devicenull posted:Are you sure there's not a junction box behind that weird trim piece? You'd have to have some downright ancient wire for there not to be a ground wire at all. Yeah, the siding guys showed me. They couldn't believe it either.
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Oct 24, 2016 00:43
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Medullah posted:Yeah, the siding guys showed me. They couldn't believe it either. Then show us. Take off that square piece in the middle. It just snaps in.
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Oct 24, 2016 00:44
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kid sinister posted:Then show us. Take off that square piece in the middle. It just snaps in. I'll try and get a pic if I get home before dark this week.
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Oct 24, 2016 01:47
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Wire fill for junction boxes question. I want to have a box that splits a circuit down three separate branches; counting the incoming conductor from the panel, that means using 4 knockouts on a 4"x4" box. Fortunately there's no device on the box; I just have the wires to deal with. They're 12/2 wires, so that's 3 conductors per knockout, right? Plus one for the box ground wire. This calculator says that I'd need a box with an internal volume of 31.5 cubic inches; a 4"x4"x2.125" box has a volume of 34 cubic inches, but I've no idea if that's internal or external or what kind of tolerances are required for extra space. Do I need to get a bigger box? Unless the box is labeled otherwise, that box has a volume of 30.3 cu. in. per Table 314.16(A). Luckily for you though, only the wires that originate outside the box count for fill, and the ground only counts once for fill. Assuming you are not using internal clamps, I count 20.25 cu. in. required (9 #12 x 2.25 cu. in per #12). Edit: also, the calculator you linked to said that the grounds should not be counted in the wire count you fill in. It looks like it throws in an extra wire for the ground automatically. Special A fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 01:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Wire fill for junction boxes question. I want to have a box that splits a circuit down three separate branches; counting the incoming conductor from the panel, that means using 4 knockouts on a 4"x4" box. Fortunately there's no device on the box; I just have the wires to deal with. They're 12/2 wires, so that's 3 conductors per knockout, right? Plus one for the box ground wire. This calculator says that I'd need a box with an internal volume of 31.5 cubic inches; a 4"x4"x2.125" box has a volume of 34 cubic inches, but I've no idea if that's internal or external or what kind of tolerances are required for extra space. Do I need to get a bigger box? All the grounds in a box only count once. So you've got 2 conductors, hot and neutral, per run going into the box. 4 runs * 2 conductors/run + 1 ground conductor = 9 conductors. The book says every 12# conductor needs 2.25 in3 of space, so 9 conductors * 2.25 in3/conductor = 20.25 in3 of space. Your box is fine. That's also the internal volume. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 02:04
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Naffer posted:My late-60's era house has line-level closet light switches embedded in the door jamb. One recently broke so I went looking for a replacement, but it seems that all of the current designs use a tiny junction box that requires a huge hole in the door jamb. Oh hey, I found out you fell through the cracks on the last page. Do you still need help? Because if you're looking for a weird switch, you might be best off asking in the electronics thread here in DIY. Hit them up, I bet they could find a match for you. Make sure to post a photo. You'd need a But you are right, all junctions must be made in boxes. Do your old switches not have them? I'd love to see a photo too. edit: I'm not sure about the switch terminology, depending on your setup. Are you sure that the door switches work on line voltage? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 02:14
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Awesome, thanks for the analysis and explanation guys!
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Oct 24, 2016 02:57
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Another shop wiring question. This is in my barn, do these outlets along the floor (I put the bottom of the boxes 20" up) need to be on gfci? I'll just put in a gfci breaker if so, just wondering if I need to. What about outlets over my planned workbench(es)? They'll be, like, 48" off the ground. I'm not super clear on what counts as needing gfci in the case of this outbuilding. Blue boxes on right hand wall:  The tarp there will be a garage door in about two weeks. e: In unrelated news, I successfully wired up the two 3-way switches to three separate outlets in series along the ceiling, which are dedicated to the main overhead lights, and it worked the first time. Wow! Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 04:17
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Are you planning to put up sheetrock? Since I didn't, my local building department required me to run all my cables that are within 8' of the ground in conduit (metal-clad cable qualifies, fortunately) because of the risk of accidentally damaging the cables / getting electrocuted. For the GFCI thing, the impression I've been getting is that it's preferred that almost all modern circuits be GFCI protected. Again my local department required all of my workshop's circuits to be protected. I don't know if it's a hard-and-fast rule, though. Personally I'm just happy to apply any easy safety systems I can, and GFCI is pretty dang easy.
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Oct 24, 2016 04:35
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Yeah, I'm going to clad the walls up to a touch over 9' high.
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Oct 24, 2016 05:00
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Code in my area is that garages/shops need gfci at all heights. Absolutely no clue why, some light googling suggested it has to do with those areas being more likely to have high power devices in use, which still doesn't make sense to me.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:12
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Slugworth posted:Code in my area is that garages/shops need gfci at all heights. Absolutely no clue why, some light googling suggested it has to do with those areas being more likely to have high power devices in use, which still doesn't make sense to me. It's because people hose out their garages.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:53
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We ended up getting the kitchen so aside from the panel we could have easily done all the other stuff ourselves welp. I at least took the chance to resecure the stuff they installed seeing as there's only so much you can do after the house is finished and no modern boxes line up that well with old plaster walls.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:17
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Slugworth posted:Code in my area is that garages/shops need gfci at all heights. Absolutely no clue why, some light googling suggested it has to do with those areas being more likely to have high power devices in use, which still doesn't make sense to me. That's all well and good, but I'm going to have outlets for which there are simply not gfci options available, so I don't really get what is expected. Like, I'll have a handful of various-amperage 240V outlets. And I'll have some higher-amperage 120V outlets, as well. And I have dedicated outlets on my ceiling (9' up) for my lights, surely those aren't expected to be gfci. Right now, I've got a couple gfci breakers for the two banks of outlets along the floor, and I'm pretty much planning on stopping there without specific advice to the contrary, I guess. Those things are not cheap.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:23
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Not sure this is the right place - feel free to point me somewhere else if it isn't. I've got a small domestic generator which pumps out 240v (UK). I've got a tool that requires 12v 12amps. Apart from buying a car battery and lugging it around a field is there any way I can convert 240v to 12v 12amps. I've gogled this to pieces for a piece of kit but found nothing - I suspect because I'm using the wrong terms.
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Oct 25, 2016 16:49
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You just want a transformer, it sounds like? For the most brain-dead option, a car battery charger would probably work, they plug into your outlet and put out 12v at a potentially high amperage. The one I have sitting in my garage will do up to 60A in crank assist (jump start) mode.
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Oct 25, 2016 17:21
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Tally posted:Not sure this is the right place - feel free to point me somewhere else if it isn't. Transformer rectifier and a fire extinguisher: http://www.ebay.com.au/bhp/240v-to-12v-transformer (But do it in the UK.)
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Oct 25, 2016 17:21
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Tally posted:Not sure this is the right place - feel free to point me somewhere else if it isn't. Do you need 12 volts AC or DC? If it's AC->DC, then you'd need an AC adapter. You'd need one the size of a laptop power supply. If it's AC->AC, then you'd need a transformer. I'd ask in the electronics thread here in DIY if you need more help.
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Oct 25, 2016 18:41
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Putting in a couple 50A 240V circuits, one for a welder and one for my dust collector. Running 6/2 to a 6-50 receptacle for each. What size box do I need for the receptacle? I'm just assuming a 1-gang box is too small regardless of whether or not I could stuff the receptacle in. No splicing or anything else in the box at all, just the two conductors and ground going straight to the terminals on the receptacle. e: Nevermind maybe, I scrolled back and checked that calculator, it said 25 cubic inches, I grabbed a couple 34s with the integrated clamp, should do. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 16:14
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Bad Munki posted:Putting in a couple 50A 240V circuits, one for a welder and one for my dust collector. Running 6/2 to a 6-50 receptacle for each. What size box do I need for the receptacle? I'm just assuming a 1-gang box is too small regardless of whether or not I could stuff the receptacle in. No splicing or anything else in the box at all, just the two conductors and ground going straight to the terminals on the receptacle. Assuming no clamps are in the box, you would need a 25 cu in. If the cable is clamped in the box you need 30 cu in. A 4" x 2.125" square box (assuming metal) would be sufficient. Edit: actually, the clamps count regardless of them being used. Edit #2: if the device is wider than 2", you need to add a double allowance for each gang required for mounting, so add 10 cu in, if that's the case (I don't think it should be greater than 4") Special A fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 16:26
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Bad Munki posted:That's all well and good, but I'm going to have outlets for which there are simply not gfci options available, so I don't really get what is expected. Like, I'll have a handful of various-amperage 240V outlets. And I'll have some higher-amperage 120V outlets, as well. And I have dedicated outlets on my ceiling (9' up) for my lights, surely those aren't expected to be gfci. i don't have my codebook handy but i'm pretty sure it's article 210.8 that requires all 15 and 20amp 120volt receptacles in a garage to have GFCI protection. this includes the garage door opener receptacle and your lighting receptacles. where i work this is strictly enforced but your jurisdiction may vary..call your inspector? out of curiosity why are you going with the breakers over just installing a GFCI receptacle at the beginning of the line if you're concerned with cost?
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Oct 27, 2016 04:38
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Because I find I often decide, later on, to add this and that to a circuit, and it's easier to ensure that the circuit is absolutely protected if it's right back in the breaker box, and there's never any question about where to look for the reset. On a side note, though: this is absolutely not a garage, and there isn't even water plumbed within 200' of the building. If I want water there, I have to get a mile of hoses chained together and string them across the yard. Does that make a difference? It's as dry as an outbuilding can possibly be. And while it was back in 2012, I swear this thread told me when I was putting some lights in my garage that the dedicated outlets up on the ceiling that were for my workbench lights didn't need to be GFCI. Did that change since then? Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Oct 27, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2016 04:55
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you made me get out of bed and dig up my codebook :-p 210.8 for dwelling units says "All 125v single phase 15 and 20amp receptacles installed in locations specified in 210.8 (a)(1) through (10) shall have GFCI protection for personnel. (2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas and areas of similar use." i'm not sure when they got rid of the exception for non-readily accessible and dedicated circuits but it no longer exists. this is all from the 2014 codebook. so my interpretation, since i'm assuming you're building a workshop, they ALL need to be GFCI protected. including the ones in the ceiling since they fall under the single-phase 120v 15-20amp requirement. if you go that route and don't want to put in another breaker they do make a GFCI/switch combo where you can control the lighting load with the GFCI. i'd call your inspector first though and see how he interprets it..he might not give a poo poo and it all depends on which code update your jurisdiction is enforcing.
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Oct 27, 2016 05:41
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Is there a way to wire up a couple three way switches with the switches BETWEEN two lights? The use case is: I have a door at each end of my barn, and I want to put a porch light out there at each side, with a switch next to each door that controls both lights. Just trying to reduce the number of runs across the length of the barn that I have to do, each switch is going to be just a few feet from the light at that end, so if I can do it with just a single run of 14/3 with a 14/2 leg from each switch to the nearest light, that'd be ideal.
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Oct 27, 2016 23:32
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Bad Munki posted:Is there a way to wire up a couple three way switches with the switches BETWEEN two lights? To do it the right way, I think you would need 4 conductors between the switches: 1 wire to carry the hot back to the light by the other switch, two traveler wires, and one neutral wire.
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Oct 28, 2016 00:44
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Bad Munki posted:Is there a way to wire up a couple three way switches with the switches BETWEEN two lights? With the lights on the ends, no. With 3 way switching, all methods rely on an incoming hot from one switch going over 2 travelers to the second switch, and the hot going from there to the lights. In other words, you'd need the final hot going between both lights no matter what. That means: put the lights in the middle with the switches on the ends for the fewest number of wires. Do option 4 here, but with some modification. All light switches now need a neutral wire to that box regardless if they use it, so that run of /3 to the right switch needs to be 2 runs of /2 and the neutral capped off there. Optionally, you could replace either run of double /2 (light-to-light and light-to-switch) with 14/2/2 if you can find it. Don't forget to tape up your neutrals repurposed as hot carriers. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 17:31
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Also keep in mind that if this is an agricultural building, it is covered by article 547 (assuming you are under the NEC), so you have to use Type UF, Type NMC or jacketed Type MC cable, assuming you aren't using conduit.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:10
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Special A posted:Also keep in mind that if this is an agricultural building, it is covered by article 547 (assuming you are under the NEC), so you have to use Type UF, Type NMC or jacketed Type MC cable, assuming you aren't using conduit. I'm putting up cladding on the walls, like drywall (although probably not actually drywall, but instead something much, much more robust) so I believe that covers protecting the wiring? They'll be in wall cavities up to about 10'. And I don't have any plans for wiring above that, but if I do, I plan on metal flex conduit as needed. kid sinister posted:Do option 4 here, but with some modification. All light switches now need a neutral wire to that box regardless if they use it, so that run of /3 to the right switch needs to be 2 runs of /2 and the neutral capped off there. Optionally, you could replace either run of double /2 (light-to-light and light-to-switch) with 14/2/2 if you can find it. Don't forget to tape up your neutrals repurposed as hot carriers. e: It's a 3-gang box and will have some other switches in there. Does it have to be a neutral specific to each circuit, or does any neutral count? Since it's just going to be capped off anyhow, I wonder if maybe any ol' neutral would count? Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 18:33
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I don't know too much about home wiring, so bear with me. I bought an old house with 100 amp service and the breaker box is maxed out. I'd like to add more circuits to the garage, so I assume I would need a new sub panel and upgrading the service to the house (200 amp?). I don't think I can do this part myself but can any of the electricians give me a ball park estimate on what that costs? My garage is finished with drywall already so it kind of sucks that I'd have to tear a bunch of that out to do this.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:34
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Larrymer posted:I don't know too much about home wiring, so bear with me. I bought an old house with 100 amp service and the breaker box is maxed out. I'd like to add more circuits to the garage, so I assume I would need a new sub panel and upgrading the service to the house (200 amp?). I don't think I can do this part myself but can any of the electricians give me a ball park estimate on what that costs? You can probably just replace some of the existing breakers with twin breakers, which put two circuit breakers onto a single "pole" (i.e. slot on the panel). Unless of course all of your panel's slots are already filled with twin breakers. Be cautious about replacing the panel itself, since (as I understand it) in many jurisdictions that means bringing the entire rest of the house up to code electricity-wise. With an old house that might mean rewiring the entire house.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:56
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