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YMMV, but I didn't think this was more exploitative than the average level of gore here, it just happened to more beloved characters in a really uncomfortable environment. Which I think was necessary, they want to break the audience the way Rick is broken. Beating Negan is going to be a lot more satisfying than beating the Governor. Also I don't see it similar at all to Hostel or Saw, or think it's going to be commonplace from here on out. Have y'all seen those films? Hell, "dying character desperately tries to speak while others sob around him, helpless, is like three scenes in Saving Private Ryan, which I personally find more offputting. Not to mention the knife fight scene. But yeah, torture-porn this was not, because in torture porn horror the grossout is the end goal, here, at least a strong argument can be made that it's shown to get the audience to empathasize with how broken the survivors are. Which, hey, is probably one of the reasons Saving Private Ryan gets stronger reactions than older war movies that just "pew-pew, scream, now he's dead, no blood."
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Oct 24, 2016 13:15
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tadashi posted:I don't remember GoT ever killing someone with such graphic detail just for the hell of it? Most of the characters in GoT who die horribly get it over with pretty quickly? Look at this guy, quitting TWD because it got too violent. The hundred scenes before this of people dying horrible deaths were ok but Glenn's pop out eye was the last straw lol.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:18
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IGN reviewed the episode and said basically it was awesome, but it was too hosed up - 6/10. I just recently started watching GoT and I feel like everything on that show is way, way worse than this scene. People on that show die all the time while people laugh around them. A dude gets his loving skull crushed with someone's thumbs in his eye sockets while he screams. Imagine if TWD was on HBO...
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Oct 24, 2016 13:22
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tadashi posted:I don't remember GoT ever killing someone with such graphic detail just for the hell of it? Most of the characters in GoT who die horribly get it over with pretty quickly? Yea; GoT never had anyone get their eyeballs pop'd and have their skull crushed by force 
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Oct 24, 2016 13:26
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Rick would have felt a lot better to get underneath the RV instead of staying on top where all the smoke was, doesn't he know that's dangerous?
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Oct 24, 2016 13:33
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Tim Whatley posted:Imagine if TWD was on HBO... Don't tease me with these awesome parallel universes that I can't go to.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:32
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I'm wondering if people just have a lack of imagination? When I see a person that has died horribly on the show I don't need to actually see them get eaten or beaten to death or whatever, my imagination is way worse than what is shown. Anyone who is upset enough to quit over Glenn's death should probably have done it a long time ago
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Oct 24, 2016 13:37
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Spermanent Record posted:This show is like the opposite of GOT though. That story has a huge overarching plot and even if characters die suddenly their actions continue shaping the world even after their deaths. Walking Dead just feels like a group of purple trudging along and occasionally a piano falls on one of them. I think this is the biggest problem the show faces and has been facing for the last couple of seasons. At this point, there's nothing left but melodrama. There's no actual goal anymore. There's no CDC. There's no Washington DC. There's not even Terminus. At this point, the story has fallen into a stale formula of our crew shambling from one brief interlude of safety to another separated by horrific violence. It's basically a zombie soap opera. What's frustrating as a casual fan (I started in Season 4 because of my girlfriend) is that I enjoyed the show up until now, but it's jumped the shark for me. I really want to see a conclusion, but from how the writers/director talk about it, they plan on dragging it out for years. I just want to know how the story ends.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:37
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This episode felt different because, generally, when presented with a crisis Rick and his crew always win in the end through sheer bloodymindedness and willpower. They drove off the Governor (twice), they cleaned out Terminus with some Carol Ex Machina, they took over Alexandria through attrition, they drove off the Wolves and killed most of them, they responded to an overwhelming zombie horde by forming a Katamari ball of knives and cutting through them. This is what they do. The lesson here was not "look, Negan is a murderous sadist and the new Big Bad" but that Negan has _already won_ and won convincingly, and there is no retaliatory strike Rick can plan any time soon. Negan does not have a problem with extreme violence -- in fact, he rather enjoys it -- but slaughtering them all isn't what he wants, and he's open about that. He wants subservience, with extreme violence as the punishment for defiance. And they won't believe the scale of it until they see it for themselves, so as the old joke about the donkey goes, the first 2x4 across the nose is to get their full attention. Which is why I thought the Carl's arm sequence was particularly well done -- this is Negan saying I have broken you, I can make you do ANYTHING now, but the carrot on the end of the stick is that I don't HAVE to if you do what I say. It's not just mustache-twirling evil or bloodshed for the fun of it, it has a purpose.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:37
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Do we actually know if Glen is dead? We never saw full proof from what I could tell
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Oct 24, 2016 13:40
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some guy on the bus posted:Yeah, that sounds awesome. What's wrong with that? What do you want to happen instead? The show should have really good people and really bad people. This is really cool. I actually hoped he was going to be so evil he killed everyone and forced Rick and his son to join his crew so we could get a fresh show again. Imagine how crazy that would be. Instead of a rehash of season 3 but more extreme. I'm a terrible writer, even more so on my phone (see my previous post for proof of that!), but I think this post from the av club does a good job of expressing how I felt, in english: quote:I appreciate that someone made an effort to surprise us. Negan is easy to watch (if it wasnt for all the brutal killing, hed be more likable than the rest of the cast), and Morgan and Carol might still have some surprises for us. But this is a low point, and its the sort of low point that serves to underscore the miserable emptiness where the series heart should be. If all The Walking Dead has left is the slow massacre of our empathy for its world, make Negan the lead and be done with it. Id rather be laughing than bored. I would watch 'The Negan Show'
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Oct 24, 2016 13:42
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moist turtleneck posted:Do we actually know if Glen is dead? We never saw full proof from what I could tell I think Negan said something about having a really good doctor. Maybe if they hurry? I saw he was still waving his hand to show he was OK there afterward.
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Oct 24, 2016 13:52
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Everyone i watched with was stunned at the brutality, which is why it was a great episode. It actually surprised me and made me feel something other than anger at the writers for the 99th "we're still us, we can still be good!" speech
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Oct 24, 2016 14:06
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The more gore the better. That was intense and brutal. I never thought they'd go that far with their human characters. I loved the bridge zombie getting stretched out too. Look how far we've come in horror tho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV_pG1TouUc I was torn though - JDM is AMAZING - the guy oozes cool in everything - but holy hell does he need to get his face kicked in here.
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Oct 24, 2016 14:11
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I've basically been protest-watching this show for the past two seasons and that won't stop anytime soon, it looks like. I don't enjoy it, but I enjoy not enjoying it, if that makes any sense. For what it's worth though I was legitimately surprised at the second kill.
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Oct 24, 2016 14:13
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Cannot wait for the episode where they humanize Negan. Show WHY he became a terrible person and make it so the audience can empathize with him. Hopefully I'll finally have given up on this show by then. Oh, my willpower.
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Oct 24, 2016 14:17
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Fragmented posted:Look at this guy, quitting TWD because it got too violent. The hundred scenes before this of people dying horrible deaths were ok but Glenn's pop out eye was the last straw lol. I guess people forgot Dales gnarly evisceration 
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Oct 24, 2016 14:19
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moist turtleneck posted:Do we actually know if Glen is dead? We never saw full proof from what I could tell pretty sure he crawled under the camper thats why they showed em carrying off Abrahams bigass body but not Glenns
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Oct 24, 2016 14:20
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Orange Red Bull posted:I guess people forgot Dales gnarly evisceration The best, Dale deserved it. Always nosing into other peoples business
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Oct 24, 2016 14:20
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Poor zombie thought Dale's chest cavity was a fridge!
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Oct 24, 2016 14:26
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Ragnarok the Red posted:No, we still have to get to the point where Rick is self-narrating everything. Would legit watch that show.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:04
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That was torture porn and Negan talks too much. The death montage was also embarrassing.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:12
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Can't believe Eugene thought this was a good time to play the Peek-A-Boo game
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Oct 24, 2016 15:17
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Hey I mean, I'll even come forward. I don't know if it's because I now have an infant daughter or what, but I kinda 'previewed' it on behalf of my wife, you know, do we want to keep watching this, and I'm going to tell her I don't think we should. Don't know if I'm changed or what, but no thanks for me. If she wants to, we will, but I think we could call it a day here. This is hilarious because it's exactly the same for me. We have a 10-month old daughter and last night I watched this episode on my laptop and told my wife I was watching "a baseball thing." I don't think I'm going to even tell her it's back on, we have enough on our plate at the moment.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:19
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tadashi posted:I don't remember GoT ever killing someone with such graphic detail just for the hell of it? Most of the characters in GoT who die horribly get it over with pretty quickly? Um, did you miss the Mountain vs. The Viper like a season ago?!
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Oct 24, 2016 15:20
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It's funny that everyone is calling this torture porn when it really isn't. We saw two characters get violently murdered, yup, but torture porn? Nah. Go watch Martyr's and then you'll know what torture porn is. Apparently every graphic thing on television is now 'torture porn.'  Also it's just hilarious at all the people saying this is what is making them quit the show. "Wahhhhh, we saw two people get killed in a style completely consistent with this show's history, we're out of here!" Give me a loving break.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:36
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Johnny Truant posted:It's funny that everyone is calling this torture porn when it really isn't. We saw two characters get violently murdered, yup, but torture porn? Nah. Go watch Martyr's and then you'll know what torture porn is. Apparently every graphic thing on television is now 'torture porn.' The issue isn't 2 people getting killed. It's the way the show handled it with the awful cliffhanger and awful flashback scenes that was my problem with it.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:40
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I liked it when the Termites were threatening Judith and people were all "they can't kill children that's WRONG" despite the very first scene of Walking Dead was Rick murdering a zombie child
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Oct 24, 2016 15:40
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"You buncha pussies."
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Oct 24, 2016 15:40
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moist turtleneck posted:Do we actually know if Glen is dead? We never saw full proof from what I could tell Didn't see any dumpster or objects he could crawl under so my guess is that he's Brown bread. On Negan even though he's a horrible person is it bad that I kinda like the dude. He's looking like he could be a really cool character, I was getting sick of Rick and friends with their invincible winning streak
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Oct 24, 2016 15:41
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suck my nuts
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Oct 24, 2016 15:42
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Maybe my expectations were tainted from having watched that dumbass S6 finale, but this was trash. Just a bunch of staged misery porn. We get it assholes, Negan is some hot poo poo, I don't need to see Rick in crybaby sad face mode all the goddamn time while this guy does his lovely monologue the whole episode to get it that this is the new loving villain. Really though, after everything and I mean everything these people have been through, this is what breaks them? Some rando with a baseball bat who talks way too much? When all was said and done, I wish Rick would have started laughing crazy like in the old days and for the first time even the most patient of them would really start to get him. Done and done with this sensationalist garbage dump of a show.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:48
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Glenn and Abe's death didn't gross me out. What grossed me out was whatever Rick put his hand in on that one zombie's neck. It looked like a giant puss bubble or something.
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Oct 24, 2016 15:51
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Shitenshi posted:Really though, after everything and I mean everything these people have been through, this is what breaks them? Some rando with a baseball bat who talks way too much? When all was said and done, I wish Rick would have started laughing crazy like in the old days and for the first time even the most patient of them would really start to get him. Done and done with this sensationalist garbage dump of a show. It didn't matter that it was a guy with a baseball bat. It could have been an old grandma who tickles them to death with a feather. It was the extra threat of dozens of guys with guns and the knowledge that if you step out of line, YOU don't get killed, someone else does. This is standard dictatorship North Korea-style "kill your family if you disobey us" stuff. Negan is a great character because he isn't crazy. He's pragmatic and ruthless. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 15:55
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They've been in unwinnable situations before, they take their lumps and then regroup and figure it out later. After everything they've been through so far and the number of people they've seen killed I can't see Rick actually being shook this time because one of them was Glenn. It might just be because the 'evil sociopath group' thing has been done to death but nothing about their current situation feels any different from the last bunch of times it's happened. They'll win in the end and the only surprises will be which main characters get offed in the meantime.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:07
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Hobo Clown posted:They've been in unwinnable situations before, they take their lumps and then regroup and figure it out later. After everything they've been through so far and the number of people they've seen killed I can't see Rick actually being shook this time because one of them was Glenn. It might just be because the 'evil sociopath group' thing has been done to death but nothing about their current situation feels any different from the last bunch of times it's happened. They'll win in the end and the only surprises will be which main characters get offed in the meantime. If Rick started laughing or anyone showed any sign of resistance, Negan would have just ordered another person to be shot in the back of the head. And then another. And then another. And then they go to Alexandria and keep Rick alive to watch. Would you argue that characters should be strong enough to resist physical and psychological torture just because you're safe on the other side of the TV screen? Edit: And to assure you, I know that our team is gonna beat this in the end, but this moment has to stick for them. They have to understand that taking out this threat needs to be smart and extremely well coordinated or they cause the deaths of other people, not just themselves. This isn't a cavalier "Jack Bauer / all guns blazing" approach that they've done in the past. Negan brings real stakes back to the show. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 16:10
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vintagepurple posted:YMMV, but I didn't think this was more exploitative than the average level of gore here, it just happened to more beloved characters in a really uncomfortable environment. Which I think was necessary, they want to break the audience the way Rick is broken. Beating Negan is going to be a lot more satisfying than beating the Governor. Yeah but this show has now completely devolved into "bad people make Rick mad. Watch Rick get revenge" Maybe that's been the hook for a while but it was at least couched in other explorations like "can this group civilize itself?". Now it's just "watch this snuff film, get mad, cheer for Rick to get even" and that's so drat boring. The violence was sickening enough but the realization that it's all this show has left was enough for me to turn it off halfway through. At this point they could just show someone getting flayed for 45 minutes and it would have the same narrative content as this episode.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:13
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I'm glad I waited until yesterday to watch the season 6 finale. It allowed for a seamless transition to the opening. The double death was a surprise but once Darryl got a swing in, I knew Glen was gonna bite it. Still made me cringe when he was trying to speak. Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm watching this show with a bunch of the citizens from the demolition man movie. I can only imagine the scoffs and "well I never"s
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Oct 24, 2016 16:14
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mcmagic posted:The issue isn't 2 people getting killed. It's the way the show handled it with the awful cliffhanger and awful flashback scenes that was my problem with it. Oh I agree that the flashback-style episode was trash 100%. For the first ~30% of the episode I seriously thought AMC was going to hold out on the reveal. But people saying this is "torture porn" apparently have forgotten about all the other awful poo poo that AMC has explicitly shown us before.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:14
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It's not torture porn (and neither is the French version of Martyrs) but it's incredibly exploitative. Basing the s6 finale, year long marketing plan and s7 premiere around the promise of a graphic execution is just plain odd to me. That's not the appeal of the show, to me at least. I mean I'm impressed that the biggest show on TV is the love child of Coronation Street and Grindhouse cinema. It's adorably trashy. The only person I've met irl who loved TWD was a deadly serious Warhammer nerd who raved about the ending of True Detective S2 because 'It's like real life. There's no story, people just die. It's nihilistic, man. That's why I like it.'
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Oct 24, 2016 16:16
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