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Jeremys Iron posted:In the pilot did he interview in her a standard interview room (i.e. glass walls, other people milling about) or was he still using the under-the-stairs secluded room he now seems to favour? That could be more of a factor in the clothing question as he'd want to follow standard protocol when others are about but my memory of the pilot isn't good enough to know for sure. Yeah your assumption is correct. In the pilot he's interviewing her in the big open space.
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Oct 24, 2016 16:51
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I think the Bernard/Delores under-the-stairs analysis scenes are flashbacks Delores has in the form of dreams. Bernard didn't bring her to his under-the-stairs analysis cube while she was asleep with the guests, instead she was just dreaming about a previous analysis visit from when she was just in a normal loop, or whenever Bernard can bring her there without screwing up a guest's experience.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:16
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Glad to see Vincenzo Natali took something from his Hannibal episodes when directing tonight's outing (the angled closeups on Dolores's face, the alternatively greyscale/chiaroscuro lighting of some scenes, the tone of Maeve and Dolores's flashbacks, the mingling of blood and intimacy between Maeve and Hector Eschaton)
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Oct 24, 2016 17:17
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While I think the MIB/William theory has been busted after this episode, I'm wondering if the Bernard/Dolores scenes are flashbacks to way in the past. Possibly playing on the misdirect that Bernard is/was Arnold. Or at least, he's playing the Arnold role this time around. Something like Ford's new narrative was specifically designed to force the hosts, guests and staff to replicate the events of 30 years ago to see if they'll play out the same or maybe achieve something they couldn't before. Also was Ford saying that the Board's representative was already there? If so, does that mean it could be an existing character we've seen in the park like MIB or Logan? Logan seemed to allude to it also being a business trip. Teek fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 17:18
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Gynecolojustice posted:I think the Bernard/Delores under-the-stairs analysis scenes are flashbacks Delores has in the form of dreams. Bernard didn't bring her to his under-the-stairs analysis cube while she was asleep with the guests, instead she was just dreaming about a previous analysis visit from when she was just in a normal loop, or whenever Bernard can bring her there without screwing up a guest's experience. Yep, that makes sense to me. Thanks.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:21
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JossiRossi posted:The show is definitely not taking place in two eras. She was literally having flashbacks during that whole thing. Why would it be insane to think her finding William was also a flashback? Somebody give me one concrete example to debunk the MIB/William 30 years apart storyline. There isn't one. Maybe this on purpose by the show creators to confuse the viewer, but there certainly isn't a single piece of evidence to dispute the theory.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:24
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Paulocaust posted:She was literally having flashbacks during that whole thing. Why would it be insane to think her finding William was also a flashback? The sequence of events between Teddy and Delores doesn't jibe with the timeline theory. Teddy took the new quest to find Wyatt and wasn't there to go back to the farm with Delores and that's when she went off plan and ran into William.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:28
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Rhyno posted:The sequence of events between Teddy and Delores doesn't jibe with the timeline theory. Teddy took the new quest to find Wyatt and wasn't there to go back to the farm with Delores and that's when she went off plan and ran into William. Teddy is never around in ANY of the supposed "30 years ago flashbacks" he's not on the train when William gets off, etc... So again, still waiting for evidence to the contrary.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:32
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We also see the QA security guy interact in the control room with off script Dolores this week and with MIB a few episodes back. He did joke last week about being a host himself, and the only way I think that works timeline wise would be if he is. Also seems odd if Dolores gets a flashback of MIB when getting assaulted in the barn, to then flee and meet up with William. Unless it's happened to her previously right before running into William, and we just didn't see the actual outcome of her shooting the guy and running off yet. Teek fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 17:32
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tin can made man posted:It totally isn't the case, but Logan's whole shady "we need to increase our stake" and "with this family, it's always business" makes it sound like the future mafia owns 20% of westworld Ford mentions to Cullen that there is already a representative in the park from the Board. That is probably Logan.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:32
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Paulocaust posted:She was literally having flashbacks during that whole thing. Why would it be insane to think her finding William was also a flashback? If William is supposed to be 30 years ago, why are all the hosts in his timeline as advanced as the ones in the present timeline? This has been the one big detail that makes me wonder why people believe the split timeline thing. We already know they weren't as advanced back then. Anyway it seems pretty clear Ford is recreating an old storyline he and Arnold did 30 years ago, probably the one that led.to the former's demise. Repurposing the area with the church, and his comment last episode about uploading the old (storyline) into the new (hosts) had me already assuming as much. This episode felt to me like a confirmation of that.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:33
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JossiRossi posted:Ford mentions to Cullen that there is already a representative in the park from the Board. That is probably Logan. Or Ed Harris.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:34
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Paulocaust posted:She was literally having flashbacks during that whole thing. Why would it be insane to think her finding William was also a flashback? There isn't concrete evidence but it wouldn't make sense in the context of the show as we know it now. It would just be too convoluted at this point, imo. Usually, the rule for dramatic storytelling is that you can have a simple story delivered in a complicated way, like Memento, or you can have a complicated story delivered in simple way, like most detective stories, but doing both is suicide. If you think of it like using sliders, you can move the sliders so that one is at 60 and the other is at 40 or 80/20 but sending both sliders to 100 would be too much. Time will tell, I guess. I think that they're showing us something huge is happening on the outside with the corporation, it's why William/Logan are there (I think?) and what Teresa keeps talking about. And they're showing us that something huge is happening in Westworld, with MiB seeking the Maze. I think loving with the timeline too much would be almost too much to piece together with everything else that's happening. E: they are messing with the timeline of the show a little, I just don't think they're also showing us someone at different times in their own life. tadashi fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 17:35
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DoctorGonzo posted:Or Ed Harris.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:35
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edit: drat got beat up thread.Paulocaust posted:She was literally having flashbacks during that whole thing. Why would it be insane to think her finding William was also a flashback? How about this then. How come when they show the robot from 30 years ago it is all jerky and crappy. If one story is taking place 30 years earlier than the other why are the robots the same, when they clearly showed they used to be not nearly as good? JossiRossi fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 17:39
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The one concrete thing I can think of is that I'm pretty darn sure they introduced the idea of them giving MiB permission for pyrotechnics from the same room they observed Dolores straying from her path, and from the same room where they redirect the posse into town to show us that all these events coincide and are building up to one big final event.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:43
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esperterra posted:If William is supposed to be 30 years ago, why are all the hosts in his timeline as advanced as the ones in the present timeline? This has been the one big detail that makes me wonder why people believe the split timeline thing. We already know they weren't as advanced back then. How do we know how advanced they were during his visit? Old Bill wasn't only 30 years old. Cullen said she came to Westworld "as a child" which was certainly more than 30 years ago considering she's in her 50s. So again...
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Oct 24, 2016 17:43
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JossiRossi posted:How about this then. How come when they show the robot from 30 years ago it is all jerky and crappy. If one story is taking place 30 years earlier than the other why are the robots the same, when they clearly showed they used to be not nearly as good? Thank you for letting me know I'm not the only one who thinks this. Old Bill was older than 30 but the point still stands. Dolores is supposed to be the only bot quite that old, yet William interacts with Clementine (and Maeve, no? though I could be misremembering seeing her in those scenes) in Sweetwater, etc. Though I do think Maeve must be a rather old bot too, having been through more thab one storyline, just not 30 years or so old like Delorean is supposed to be.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:44
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tadashi posted:The one concrete thing I can think of is that I'm pretty darn sure they introduced the idea of them giving MiB permission for pyrotechnics from the same room they observed Dolores straying from her path, and from the same room where they redirect the posse into town to show us that all these events coincide and are building up to one big final event. Sorry for double post, phone. But there's this. The same techs talk about stuff going on in both stories, and Hemsworth isn't 30 years younger when talking about Dolores straying than when he grants MiB pyro.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:46
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Paulocaust posted:How do we know how advanced they were during his visit? Old Bill wasn't only 30 years old. Cullen said she came to Westworld "as a child" which was certainly more than 30 years ago considering she's in her 50s. So again... Cullen's actor is 47, which puts her exactly within "a child" range of visiting Westworld before the mysterious incident.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:47
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esperterra posted:Thank you for letting me know I'm not the only one who thinks this. Old Bill was older than 30 but the point still stands. Dolores is supposed to be the only bot quite that old, yet William interacts with Clementine (and Maeve, no? though I could be misremembering seeing her in those scenes) in Sweetwater, etc. Maeve is never in any of the supposed 30 years ago flashbacks. Clementine is, but she's "one of the most popular attractions of the park." So it would make sense for her to be in the same position 30 years later. Again. We never see any giveaways. William never interacts with Delores dad, the new bartender, Teddy, etc... Either they're going out of their way to create a theory that's not true to spark debate or the William/MiB thing is true.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:48
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Paulocaust posted:How do we know how advanced they were during his visit? Old Bill wasn't only 30 years old. Cullen said she came to Westworld "as a child" which was certainly more than 30 years ago considering she's in her 50s. So again... I think I have done this too, but the park isn't stated as being 30 years old. Only that an "accident" occurred 30 years ago. It's never even been directly stated that Arthur died in that same accident. He probably did, because that'd start to get really narrative complex, but it is possible there were more than one incident. However, for you to be right there would need to have been: Accident in Park, 30 years pass, William visits, 30 years pass, MiB tries to solve the maze. And we know that MiB and Ford will be meeting next episode. Young Hopkins looked baby faced but I don't think he'd have been like 20 when he first was developing the Hosts.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:49
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esperterra posted:Sorry for double post, phone. But there's this. The same techs talk about stuff going on in both stories, and Hemsworth isn't 30 years younger when talking about Dolores straying than when he grants MiB pyro. Ugh this post is annoying. They go out of their way to be vague here when she strays off her path. "Is she with anyone?" "It's unclear" she's straying off her path with William 30 years ago, and when Bernard sends her on her to find the maze, she's following the exact same path as 30 years ago which is why she flips between seeing the little girl who's mother was murdered and her vanishing the second William shows back up. JossiRossi posted:I think I have done this too, but the park isn't stated as being 30 years old. Only that an "accident" occurred 30 years ago. It's never even been directly stated that Arthur died in that same accident. He probably did, because that'd start to get really narrative complex, but it is possible there were more than one incident. Why would there need to be 30 years in between the critical failure and Williams visit?
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Oct 24, 2016 17:51
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[quote="tooterfish" post="465694092"] He's on vacation. 
DoctorGonzo fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 17:53
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There's as much evidence there is a split timeline as there is that there is not a split timeline.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:56
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Paulocaust posted:Maeve is never in any of the supposed 30 years ago flashbacks. Clementine is, but she's "one of the most popular attractions of the park." So it would make sense for her to be in the same position 30 years later. Again. We never see any giveaways. William never interacts with Delores dad, the new bartender, Teddy, etc... Either they're going out of their way to create a theory that's not true to spark debate or the William/MiB thing is true. Good point, I'd forgotten about the glimpse of Clementine in Hopkins' flashback. Though I should have specified my comment about Maeve being a bit of an older bot having more to do with how her new self awareness is effecting her (conflicting flashbacks due to her having been in a different storyline before) and less to do with arguing against the William theory. More of a random thought. Really, though, on a note that focuses less on whether the show would pay enough attention to detail to have the hosts be jankier if one of our storylines was set 30 years ago, I feel like Hemsworth commenting on both the stray Dolores and then also granting Ed Harris pyrotechnic effects in the same episode makes it pretty obvious everything is happening in the same time.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:56
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Isn't it possible they said "It's unclear," because we were shown William and Dolores had separated that morning in the Mexican town? While it'd be silly if security couldn't tell at a glance who was a guest, I could see them not tracking which guest a host is paired with, so if he fucks off to more than X metres away for however many minutes it'd be hard to tell. Also, weren't we explicitly shown Ford was young during the original development of the Hosts?
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Oct 24, 2016 17:57
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Paulocaust posted:Why would there need to be 30 years in between the critical failure and Williams visit? Because the entire Human cast must be in the same time period as the MiB. Hopkins will meet him, but even then he's been talked about by the Human security multiple times now. If all the Human Crew are in the same time then that means Old Bill the lovely robot from the indeterminate past is indicative of what the robots were like 30+ years ago. They certainly were not the same as they are "now". So, if William is the MiB he must be visiting the park when it is still newish, and when the robots were not as good as they are today.
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Oct 24, 2016 17:59
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Mameluke posted:Isn't it possible they said "It's unclear," because we were shown William and Dolores had separated that morning in the Mexican town? Seemed that way to me. It was unclear, so Hemsworth sent someone to go find out from Dolores if she'd strayed because she was glitching out or if she was escorting a guest. William shows up before she can be whisked back to the farm/to get an analysis, so they leave her be.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:03
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JossiRossi posted:Because the entire Human cast must be in the same time period as the MiB. Hopkins will meet him, but even then he's been talked about by the Human security multiple times now. If all the Human Crew are in the same time then that means Old Bill the lovely robot from the indeterminate past is indicative of what the robots were like 30+ years ago. They certainly were not the same as they are "now". So, if William is the MiB he must be visiting the park when it is still newish, and when the robots were not as good as they are today. Old Bill is indicative of nothing in regards to what robots 30 years ago were like, for two reasons: 1) when we see the old Peter Abernathy and others learning to speak/dance in Hopkins flashback, they don't move stiff like Old Bill. 2) it's never stated Old Bill is only 30 years old. As the "second robot they ever built" it's more likely he was a prototype that never saw an opened park.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:03
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Paulocaust posted:Old Bill is indicative of nothing in regards to what robots 30 years ago were like, for two reasons: 1) when we see the old Peter Abernathy and others learning to speak/dance in Hopkins flashback, they don't move stiff like Old Bill. 2) it's never stated Old Bill is only 30 years old. As the "second robot they ever built" it's more likely he was a prototype that never saw an opened park. Did you even watch that dancing? It was totally mechanical. But whatever, I can predict the rest of your responses in the thread anyway. Paulocaust posted:That doesn't look like anything to me.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:08
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JossiRossi posted:Did you even watch that dancing? It was totally mechanical. But whatever, I can predict the rest of your responses in the thread anyway. Because they were literally being taught to dance as of they were full grown babies fresh out of the womb. Sounds like you're the one with the pre-ordained mind my friend. Here let me help you broaden your horizons: these violent delights, have violent ends.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:16
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esperterra posted:Sorry for double post, phone. But there's this. The same techs talk about stuff going on in both stories, and Hemsworth isn't 30 years younger when talking about Dolores straying than when he grants MiB pyro. I'm back on the fence about the two timeline theories, but one (stretching) explanation is that Dolores has run away twice. She flees the attack on her ranch in William's timeline, becoming a stray, but William keeps the sheriff host from escorting her back into the loop. In the Hopkins-Hemsworth era, Dolores is flagged for a check-up again, but the scene that immediately follows Hemsworth's flagging is misdirection. I admit it's a stretch because also in that scene right before the sheriff checks on Dolores, she's seen hearing the disembodied voice and has flashbacks telling her to remember after speaking with Lawrence's daughter, which also suggests that this is happening all in the same, current timeline. On the other hand, the reveries and glitching and bleeding memories lets us doubt the reliability of what is shown and in what order.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:16
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Caufman posted:I'm back on the fence about the two timeline theories, but one (stretching) explanation is that Dolores has run away twice. She flees the attack on her ranch in William's timeline, becoming a stray, but William keeps the sheriff host from escorting her back into the loop. In the Hopkins-Hemsworth era, Dolores is flagged for a check-up again, but the scene that immediately follows Hemsworth's flagging is misdirection. Delores' two running away timelines are as follows: 30 years ago with William and right now in search of the maze. It leads her down the same path, which is why she saw Lawrence's daughter who vanished the second William walked over to her
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Oct 24, 2016 18:21
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Caufman posted:I'm back on the fence about the two timeline theories, but one (stretching) explanation is that Dolores has run away twice. She flees the attack on her ranch in William's timeline, becoming a stray, but William keeps the sheriff host from escorting her back into the loop. In the Hopkins-Hemsworth era, Dolores is flagged for a check-up again, but the scene that immediately follows Hemsworth's flagging is misdirection. Yeah, I thought something had changed when she was talking to the daughter but then it seems like the daughter is missing from the village after we see that the daughter isn't actually there which threw me off onto thinking that this is all happening within the same iteration of the world. If the MiB timeline is totally different and the daugther and wife are alive when Dolores is in the village but the show just isn't showing us, I think that would be a cheap shot. tadashi fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 18:24
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Paulocaust posted:Delores' two running away timelines are as follows: 30 years ago with William and right now in search of the maze. It leads her down the same path, which is why she saw Lawrence's daughter who vanished the second William walked over to her Of course I buy that, but you're still going to have to spell Dolores with two o's.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:25
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This whole two timelines thing is so obviously stupid that I'm amazed it's honestely still being discussed. It doesn't make sense from any point of view and some of you better hide under a dumpster.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:27
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I don't know why running away had to be 30 years earlier. For all we know, he dragged her away in the first episode, the one where he quotes the 30 year timeline, and that didn't work so he changed a sequence of events in order to get the results he wanted. I don't think they're hiding the fact that MiB is playing a meta-game that requires lots of events to line up just in the right way and that he's tried this many times over to figure it out. I'm impressed with that part and that the path that William is dragging Logan on seems to be genuinely fun for Logan so at least we know someone is enjoying themselves outside of just the ability to be completely cruel to anyone they meet.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:36
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Paulocaust posted:Delores' two running away timelines are as follows: 30 years ago with William and right now in search of the maze. It leads her down the same path, which is why she saw Lawrence's daughter who vanished the second William walked over to her That was my hot take as well.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:37
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LinkesAuge posted:This whole two timelines thing is so obviously stupid that I'm amazed it's honestely still being discussed. It doesn't make sense from any point of view and some of you better hide under a dumpster. So debunk it then genius.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:37
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