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I would argue that it's not stupid, it's just not the best interpretation of what we're seeing at this point.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:38
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LinkesAuge posted:This whole two timelines thing is so obviously stupid that I'm amazed it's honestely still being discussed. It doesn't make sense from any point of view and some of you better hide under a dumpster. Paulocaust posted:So debunk it then genius. Wait wait wait, you're going to love this.... Hoggle posted:Ah, don't pay any attention to them, they're just false alarms. You get a lot of them in the Labyrinth, especially when you're on the right track. 
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Oct 24, 2016 18:41
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I'm actually dying to know if the constellations on the rocks were actually just red herrings and the writers sent half the show watchers off on a snipe hunt to figure out what the relevance of them might be to the show.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:44
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Paulocaust posted:So debunk it then genius. I don't feel the need to debunk 9/11-conspiracy theories just as I don't feel like debunking TV show fan theories which are built on nothing but wild speculation. I hate it when people just throw poo poo on the wall to see what sticks. It really doesn't make anyone look smart to come up with crazy/outlandish theories and then insist on them despite anything that happens in the actual show while not moving a single inch from their intial "theory". It's wasting everyone's time because we aren't discussing the show anymore, we discuss fanfiction and that annoys me because there ARE interesting things to discuss that actually happen in the show.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:50
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Hemsworth disproves it. Rebus' gun disproves it. Explain those and the theory might have weight. Right now it doesn't.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:50
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Skizzzer posted:Hemsworth disproves it. Rebus' gun disproves it. Explain those and the theory might have weight. Right now it doesn't. Neither of those disprove it, nor did you bother to explain how they would. And the guy above you is literally too dumb to argue with. Amazing the visceral responses this theory gets yet no one can refute it. How about we agree to just let it lie until proven one way or another.
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Oct 24, 2016 18:54
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I think the amount of misdirection required for the two timelines theory is too much at this point. I believe it's a theory that would work better in a movie. That's not to say it's definitely not happening, but I'm not believing it right now.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:13
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Paulocaust posted:Neither of those disprove it, nor did you bother to explain how they would. And the guy above you is literally too dumb to argue with. Amazing the visceral responses this theory gets yet no one can refute it. How about we agree to just let it lie until proven one way or another. "HAHA YOU CAN'T REALLY DISPROVE THE ILLUMINATI CONTROL THE WORLD SO I AM RIGHT!!!11". That's why I refuse to argue such theories, it leads nowhere. We are already four episodes into the season and the show hasn't even tried to built the foundation for such a reveal (if anything it does the opposite), it would be a logistical mess to do it now which only confuses the viewer and adds ZERO to the story besides a cheap "twist" and that people like you are so annoyingly insistent to see twists at every corner is what creates those "visceral responses". Somewhere the writers of this show are reading these "theories" and must be scratching their heads how people could even come to these theories from what is actually presented to the viewer. That's why I blame people like you that shows need to be "stupid/simple" at times so people can't go out of their way to go totally of the rails. This show doesn't want to be LOST, there isn't a twist or mystery around every corner. We have one big connected mystery (the maze and Arnold's history/the incident) which is blatantly shown/discussed in the show. There is no need for timeline/time frame shenanigans or employees who are secretly hosts (woooo what a unique twist that would totally devalue the story and character evolution of Dolores, Maeve and any other host). So as long as there is no evidence of the opposite I assume that we are dealing with competent writers and a story with internal consistency which doesn't really on badly constructed twists because I'm really tired of every tv thread turning into "M. Night Shyamalan" territory. LinkesAuge fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:20
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I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right to discuss the many other interesting topics that the show brings up (and there are many, many juicy topics), but I'd argue that the two timelines theory is dramatically interesting to discuss because it's related to the William/Ed Harris theory. From just a story standpoint, it's a rich and thematically appropriate conflict. William does not want to treat the hosts like a bunch of toys he can play and break with impunity. He falls for Dolores, and even though she is supposedly built for his pleasure, she is prevented from doing the thing that William might really want for her: to be happy and free of her man-made hell. Unable to rescue her the whitehat way, over the years William becomes the Gunslinger, opting for the blackhat way of setting Dolores and the rest of the hosts free while exacting retribution for the sins of the park. I'm also glad that Rebus's gun is brought up. Someone posted after the third episode that they were confused because it looks like the gun Dolores shoots Rebus with is the same model she's looking at in the drawer, but untarnished. The two timeline theory would suggest that Dolores shot Rebus with is his gun (in the era before strict weapons privileges and concurrent with Arnold running bicameral experiments), and then at some point the gun is stashed at Abernathy Ranch before being rediscovered by Dolores in its tarnished state in the Hopkins era. edit: Lycus posted:I think the amount of misdirection required for the two timelines theory is too much at this point. I believe it's a theory that would work better in a movie. That's not to say it's definitely not happening, but I'm not believing it right now. This is my leading doubt against the two timelines theory. Not that it would be an uninteresting or pointless twist, but that it means the show has been really misdirecting the viewer, perhaps to the point where I'd be offended and lose trust as a viewer. edit: There's a new graphic over at DelosIncorporated.com which shows what to do when a host is killed (in normal or abnormal situations). The relevant part seems to be that when a host is killed in normal situations, they're supposed to be taken to the graveyard like a normal burial, and the previews have shown Dolores standing over some graves. Caufman fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:21
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Lycus posted:I think the amount of misdirection required for the two timelines theory is too much at this point. I believe it's a theory that would work better in a movie. That's not to say it's definitely not happening, but I'm not believing it right now. agreed. the two timeline theory is interesting and could make thematic sense, but at this point it'd be far too complicated to explain satisfactorily. we know Thor's brother has directly interacted with both William and Ed Harris' plotlines: he interacts with the MiB's plotline when the worker is like "he's killed a whole town, want me to slow him down?" and interacts with William's when another worker is like "we have a host (Dolores) who's gone off her loop. should we sned someone to get her?" and he replies "is she with a guest?" (she is, and the person who goes to collect her finds out it's William). so unless he's a host (super, super doubtful) or those interstitial scenes in the command center are wholly unreliable (even more doubtful) he would have had to age along with Ed Harris and should look old and haggard. but he doesn't, so it's just the one timeline.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:28
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Paulocaust posted:Neither of those disprove it, nor did you bother to explain how they would. And the guy above you is literally too dumb to argue with. Amazing the visceral responses this theory gets yet no one can refute it. How about we agree to just let it lie until proven one way or another. 
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Oct 24, 2016 19:32
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I think it would be cool if there were two timelines and I think it would be cool if there's just one. Because you see the show itself is good
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Oct 24, 2016 19:33
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Caufman posted:I was very skeptical of the two timeline hypothesis until I watched episode. It does seem plausible and dramatic that William is Ed Harris in the past, and that his experience in the park will change him so much that he eventually becomes the Gunslinger. There's a huge hole in that theory, though otherwise it would be very clever. "I've been coming here for 30 years." From my understanding, other characters have confirmed the park is only 30 years old? Lycus posted:I think the amount of misdirection required for the two timelines theory is too much at this point. I believe it's a theory that would work better in a movie. That's not to say it's definitely not happening, but I'm not believing it right now. He also finds crucified Teddy, who until recently, never had that back story. I think the idea of the split timeline is really good, and I would love to see a show like this pull it off, but these two things basically make it impossible in my head right now, unless they curve ball us with things that will smooth those problems. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:35
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Caufman posted:I wouldn't want to take away anyone's right to discuss the many other interesting topics that the show brings up (and there are many, many juicy topics), but I'd argue that the two timelines theory is dramatically interesting to discuss because it's related to the William/Ed Harris theory. From just a story standpoint, it's a rich and thematically appropriate conflict. William does not want to treat the hosts like a bunch of toys he can play and break with impunity. He falls for Dolores, and even though she is supposedly built for his pleasure, she is prevented from doing the thing that William might really want for her: to be happy and free of her man-made hell. Unable to rescue her the whitehat way, over the years William becomes the Gunslinger, opting for the blackhat way of setting Dolores and the rest of the hosts free while exacting retribution for the sins of the park. No it isn't "dramatically interesting" if you use it as simple twist. For example In Lost the identities of people in the flashbacks as well as their context aren't "hidden" from the viewer because that would defeat the whole purpose of them (exploring their characters, giving us additional context to the current main plot and its characters in the PRESENT). You don't need a convoluted timeline if you really wanted William and Ed Harris to be the same person and you wouldn't write the story like they did if you wanted to. This is SO obvious that I really fail to fathom that people can think otherwise. The current plots are far too closely interconnected for any timeline shenanigans to work, there are no clear lines of seperation and that's something you'd never do if you really wanted to tell the story this theory suggests. Btw the gun thing just shows that people are really just too stupid to follow simple things. The gun Dolores shot Rebus with was Rebus' own gun and they even made the effort to get this point across and yet people ignore that and intigrate this in their convoluted theories and now I have been dragged into discussing this madness despite my best efforts not to do it. :/
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Oct 24, 2016 19:36
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-Dolores goes home to the ranch alone because Teddy was scripted onto the Wyatt sidequest with a guest. -She shoots the rapist after seeing a image of the MiB. -She flees and encounters William and Logan. -Delos Security(Luke Hemsworth) sends another to host to collect Dolores as they know she has wandered off her script. -Within the gang of Escaton's robbers another guest (young dude) speaks to the MiB. -The MiB rescues Escaton from the prison using Delos activated explosives(authorized by Luke Hemsworth) -The MiB encounters Teddy in the aftermath of the failed Wyatt quest. -Escaton's gang robs the saloon, Escaton and Maeve talk and find the bullet, we see the guest (young dude) outside shooting. I think it's safe to say that what we are seeing in the show is happening pretty much concurrently. The big indicators being: Teddy, his participation in the Wyatt quest starts Dolores on her meeting up with William and Logan and then being rescued by the MiB after being lashed to the tree by the cultists. Luke Hemsworth, who we see in this episode authorize retrieval for Dolores (because she's off script with William and Logan) and authorize the explosives for the MiB in his prison escape. There is one timeline, it is not necessarily in order but we are not seeing some mashup of future and past. William and the MiB are two separate characters.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:37
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Dick Valentine posted:-Within the gang of Escaton's robbers another guest (young dude) speaks to the MiB. Yet more good proof that theory doesn't work. Pretty much entirely agree with you, it's not happening.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:40
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Caufman posted:(in the era before strict weapons privileges and concurrent with Arnold running bicameral experiments), We also know that Rebus appeared to take revenge on characters from past narratives and that Dolores was able to commit violence when she couldn't in the past (the fly incident), so I don't think it's too far fetched to have Dolores connect the two things in episode 3. Caufman posted:Dolores standing over some graves. It's her own grave, some time when the church was whole as opposed to now when it's half buried. The grave you can read to the left is for an assistant costume designer on the show. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2371479/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr521 tadashi fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 19:40
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Have we ever seen Ford interact with Dolores?
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Oct 24, 2016 19:45
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Dick Valentine posted:-Dolores goes home to the ranch alone because Teddy was scripted onto the Wyatt sidequest with a guest. Yes
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Oct 24, 2016 19:54
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VendaGoat posted:Have we ever seen Ford interact with Dolores? He did interview her father after he blew his lid over the photograph though.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:56
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VendaGoat posted:Have we ever seen Ford interact with Dolores? Not yet. This is one thing I look forward to the most, whenever we finally get Hopkins and Wood in the same scene.
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Oct 24, 2016 19:59
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Here's some irrefutable theory: Ford is the ultimate host created by Arnold, who he killed and took over the park from.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:10
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The Dave posted:Also, the giant interactive map of westworld is actually a physical object with practical effects. Sad that most people probably just assume it's CG: This was just now made private, but there's a copy here. https://vid.me/FMBl Too bad the sound quality of the copy ended up being terrible, but the vid's watchable. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 20:10
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Kazy posted:Here's some irrefutable theory: Ford is the ultimate host created by Arnold, who he killed and took over the park from. My favorite Arnold theory is that he's the T-800. edit: Actually, I like what you said, and then it would make sense why the park may have started with all these optimistic hopes for beautiful, deep, immersive and interactive storyline under Arnold's tutelage, but then the next 30 years it's just a glorified GTA clone under Ford's tyranny. The board could have helped him bump Arnold off for the profit. It did strike me that Ford has no family, and that none of the employees that we've met have been with the park long. Exactly the kind creepy detachment you'd expect from a secret robot... IMB posted:I think it would be cool if there were two timelines and I think it would be cool if there's just one. Because you see the show itself is good I agree, and I apologize to the folks who've become upset at the timeline theory discussion. Caufman fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 24, 2016 |
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Oct 24, 2016 20:14
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tadashi posted:I'm actually dying to know if the constellations on the rocks were actually just red herrings and the writers sent half the show watchers off on a snipe hunt to figure out what the relevance of them might be to the show. All the variations the guy was carving sort of looked like he was getting closer to mapping out points that looked like the old Delos logo from original movie. 
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Oct 24, 2016 20:16
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This is a Good image gallery. https://imgur.com/a/9wtjD
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Oct 24, 2016 20:18
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I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS
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Oct 24, 2016 20:19
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Carbon dioxide posted:This is a Good image gallery. CrysReviews does these for Game of Thrones. I guess they're into Westworld now.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:21
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Bass Bottles posted:I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS Doesn't look like anything to me.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:24
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Bass Bottles posted:I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS Steven Ogg as Johnny 5 Aces, please.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:23
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Paulocaust posted:So debunk it then genius. The host's flashbacks give us some wriggle-room in timelines, and indeed what is physically real in a scene, but I don't think the show has given us any reason to go much beyond that yet. *Edit* and this post was made far too late thanks to my phone being bad at its job. Apologies to all concerned.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:24
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The Dave posted:Also, the giant interactive map of westworld is actually a physical object with practical effects. Sad that most people probably just assume it's CG: Carbon dioxide posted:This was just now made private, but there's a copy here. https://vid.me/FMBl This is really cool! Bass Bottles posted:I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS 
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Oct 24, 2016 20:30
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Carbon dioxide posted:This is a Good image gallery. Thank you for this. 
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Oct 24, 2016 20:35
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Carbon dioxide posted:This is a Good image gallery.    I think I just had a spiritual experience
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Oct 24, 2016 20:35
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I can't quite put my finger on it, but when Ford froze all the hosts, the image of those people working the fields picking crops looked like a painting to me. Like a Magritte or something. Maybe I'm nuts but I wonder if that wasn't an homage to something. Paulocaust posted:Teddy is never around in ANY of the supposed "30 years ago flashbacks" he's not on the train when William gets off, etc... So again, still waiting for evidence to the contrary. Teddy also has a thing for Dolores, and so if a white hat goes after her, he may just be 'busy' with other things so you don't have to fight him off. We also know he was tasked for the new narrative and he's been elsewhere since William showed up, so that doesn't really mean much. Hector wasn't in any of the not-flashbacks either; but that doesn't mean anything, he was just somewhere else. (Glad he's back this episode though)
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Oct 24, 2016 20:46
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Uh guys in retrospect Ford's "mankind is finished" speech may have taken on a new meaning.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:48
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So I just realized something last episode: Because the hosts keep respawning, I get a completely different reaction when their heads explode than if it was a human character in another show. I've started thinking of the poor bastards as NPCs even while the show is showing they can be more, I think, and that's just amusing. How's this show doing in the ratings by the way? Is it likely to stick around? It's appeal is much more narrow than Game of Thrones to a wide audience, I think, despite it being really loving good so I don't know how HBO feels about it.. that and I think you definitely get more from the show if you're really into AI/Cyberpunk/MMOs/Sandbox Games, I'm not sure how someone not into those things would feel.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:49
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Blazing Ownager posted:So I just realized something last episode: Because the hosts keep respawning, I get a completely different reaction when their heads explode than if it was a human character in another show. I've started thinking of the poor bastards as NPCs even while the show is showing they can be more, I think, and that's just amusing. That's the meta-game of the show. What we attach to characters in a tv show is completely up to us. We differentiate between the "guests" and the "hosts" but they're all just actors.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:50
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Bass Bottles posted:I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS holy loving poo poo 
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Oct 24, 2016 20:51
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I'm already on record for three timeliness and y'all need to get on my level. Anard under the stairs Bnard when the revalries unlocked the past William learning what the new storylines hath wrought.
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Oct 24, 2016 20:54
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