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Oh gently caress off Kilroy. You might as well make the same statement about [insert ethnic and or political group]. No one gives a poo poo if you're tired of politics and society.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:46
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Kilroy posted:Why should richer and predominantly-Democratic states transfer (even more) wealth to places like West Virginia, who generally turn right around and elect politicians to national office who promise to do everything they can to gently caress over poor people, minorities, gays, women, etc etc basically anyone white men with lovely opinions don't like? What's in it for us, because it sure as hell isn't national unity? Red states hate America with the fury of one million suns and subsidizing some industrial development for West Virginia isn't going to change that. It will probably make it worse like when we tried to fix healthcare - red states refused the funding anyway and tried to repeal the law for everyone instead. At this point I think blue states and the Democratic politicians they elect are starting to realize they just have to govern as best they can in spite of you. You should probably expect policy to favor Democratic states as a consequence of this - that's only natural. because there's no such thing as true red or blue states, but states that are majority red or majority blue, and you're acting very much like an ivory tower elitist liberal rear end in a top hat when you try to justify loving over democrats in red states out of mean-spirited spite. sorry friendo, your opinion is garbage and you're literally advocating for collective punishment here
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Oct 25, 2016 06:48
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Hey kilroy, go gently caress your hat. Sincerely, a person in a lovely red state.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:49
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Charlz Guybon posted:If this is true, I really want this to be exposed in a big way to the nation before the 8th. So how long until the first underage victim comes forward.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:51
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Is 2018 guaranteed to be a lost cause? If the same Democrats campaigning for Hillary now - Barack and Michelle, Biden, Sanders,and Warren - travel the country endorsing Democratic candidates I think they've got a real shot. All of them are relatively well liked and can drum up enthusiasm. Compare that to the Republicans who, after November 8, won't have any good figureheads who could do that.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:50
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I'd say the most influential book to me was the Opposing Viewpoints or something like that on Communism. For about two weeks I was a little Red. And perhaps I'm still a little Red.  "Battle Cry of Freedom" by Jim McPherson kind of informed my entire view of American history and also shook away any residual or casual Confederate nostalgia in me. (And I have Confederate veterans in my family tree, though the most famous attested one got shot "In his Great toe" in his first battle, and I like to imagine he shot it off himself.) Also, all the excerpts I encountered from Mo Zi.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:52
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Not sure if it was posted, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvgnOqcCYCM That last one 
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Oct 25, 2016 06:53
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Invisible Man Definitely Probably Blood Meridian was responsible for me really being anti-war. And I'm gonna say Cat's Cradle because it was my first Vonnegut.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:56
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Boon posted:Oh gently caress off Kilroy. You might as well make the same statement about [insert ethnic and or political group]. Cop Porn Popper posted:Hey kilroy, go gently caress your hat.  boner confessor posted:because there's no such thing as true red or blue states, but states that are majority red or majority blue, and you're acting very much like an ivory tower elitist liberal rear end in a top hat when you try to justify loving over democrats in red states out of mean-spirited spite. sorry friendo, your opinion is garbage and you're literally advocating for collective punishment here Still waiting on how funneling more money into red state shitholes is going to benefit blue states at all.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:57
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Charlz Guybon posted:If this is true, I really want this to be exposed in a big way to the nation before the 8th. 
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Oct 25, 2016 06:58
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Islam is the Lite Rock FM posted:Seriously coal's dead and there's no bringing it back. Best thing to do now, politically, is help anyone transition into the present. Coal was killed by hydraulic fracturing "fracking" and the cheap natural gas it provided. The people who work with coal have skills that could be used elsewhere, but that involves forceful relocation.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:59
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Kilroy posted:If we can implement policies at a national level which benefit everyone that's fine - I'm not advocating going out of our way to gently caress over red states. Blue states already transfer wealth to red states - why should we do more? At some point we have to say to places like W. Virginia and Kansas "well, quit electing idiots to local office, and if it's not too much trouble clean out your national office roster while you're at it". uh because a democratic government shouldn't run on patronage and cost-benefit analysis of the utility of caring for the poor and needy you idiot hellfucker. you'd have a lot in common with a south carolina secessionist circa 1850 with this "what have you done for me lately" bullshit
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Oct 25, 2016 07:00
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"yes yes, charity is all well and good but we've met our quota for the year and really, what would feeding poor rural children actually accomplish for society? are there no workhouses?" -kilroy, guy who complains about people thinking he's too elitist
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Oct 25, 2016 07:00
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cult member at airport posted:Is 2018 guaranteed to be a lost cause? If the same Democrats campaigning for Hillary now - Barack and Michelle, Biden, Sanders,and Warren - travel the country endorsing Democratic candidates I think they've got a real shot. All of them are relatively well liked and can drum up enthusiasm. Compare that to the Republicans who, after November 8, won't have any good figureheads who could do that. boner confessor posted:uh because a democratic government shouldn't run on patronage and cost-benefit analysis of the utility of caring for the poor and needy you idiot hellfucker. you'd have a lot in common with a south carolina secessionist circa 1850 with this "what have you done for me lately" bullshit Nessus fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 07:00
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Charlz Guybon posted:If this is true, I really want this to be exposed in a big way to the nation before the 8th. I'm surprised how much I find myself genuinely liking Rick Wilson this last year. Politics make for strange bedfellows I guess. 
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Oct 25, 2016 07:02
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well. someone has to say it so it might as well be me. The Real October Surprise is probably an underage sex abuse victim Note the lack of question mark in that sentence 
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Oct 25, 2016 07:03
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The Sneetches The Jungle Breakfast of Champions
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Oct 25, 2016 07:04
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Charlz Guybon posted:If this is true, I really want this to be exposed in a big way to the nation before the 8th. Oh please oh please oh please oh please 
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Oct 25, 2016 07:05
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'Twas the bridge what did Chris in, after all.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:05
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Nessus posted:I do think it's something that has to be considered, if only to pre-empt it - I don't think we're really there "yet" but at some point the wealthier/bluer regions of the country will start getting fed up at areas who they financially support, yet constantly denounce them and fanatically block their general policy desires. Which is not a big progression from the current state of affairs. if you can't differentiate between financial support i.e. welfare payments to the poor and political opponents who are obstacles in government then this is actual collective punishment and it's deplorable
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Oct 25, 2016 07:09
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boner confessor posted:uh because a democratic government shouldn't run on patronage and cost-benefit analysis of the utility of caring for the poor and needy you idiot hellfucker. you'd have a lot in common with a south carolina secessionist circa 1850 with this "what have you done for me lately" bullshit In places like West Virginia and Kansas the locals think that entitlement programs are bullshit across the board and they take every opportunity to sabotage them. It isn't even mismanagement - they endorse and vote for politicians and policies with the express purpose of sabotaging public programs. "I want government to be so small I can drown it in a bathtub" and so on. Their management of these programs reflects that. Meanwhile other areas where people are also hurting and could use some help, don't get all the help they need, because instead we're doing ethanol subsidies and farm subsidies and so on for people who actively hate them. You are in many cases taking money from group A, and giving it to group B, who want to see group A put in camps.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:08
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SSNeoman posted:well. Christ I hope it doesn't quite hit that level of rock bottom. Please, please draw the line loving somewhere.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:09
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boner confessor posted:"yes yes, charity is all well and good but we've met our quota for the year and really, what would feeding poor rural children actually accomplish for society? are there no workhouses?" -kilroy, guy who complains about people thinking he's too elitist maybe they can keep warm by burning all the straw you've funneled up your own rear end in a top hat
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Oct 25, 2016 07:11
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Kilroy posted:There are places in the world that are a lot worse off than West Virginia. Why not stop transferring wealth to West Virginia and transfer it to those places instead? lmao that you have zero perspective on what red states are actually like, who lives there, and you're fantasizing about hurting the Redneck In Your Mind while advocating horribly regressive policies, all while claiming to be a liberal you really dont know what you're talking about dude, except it's clear that you're 1) mad as gently caress and 2) really stupid Kilroy posted:
are you or are you not stoking your weirdo internet grudges by fantasizing about cutting off Bubba's welfare check? don't get upset when you say stupid poo poo and people point out it's stupid. have some responsibility for your opinions you dogfucker boner confessor fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Oct 25, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2016 07:11
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boner confessor posted:if you can't differentiate between financial support i.e. welfare payments to the poor and political opponents who are obstacles in government then this is actual collective punishment and it's deplorable Of course we may be seeing the natural result of these problems right now and perhaps a spring flood of Democrats will get some infrastructure rollin'
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Oct 25, 2016 07:14
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"how DARE your call me an elitist liberal! you can go back to methville and gently caress your own sistercousin for all i care you inbred honky! vote sanders 2020 or else!  "
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Oct 25, 2016 07:15
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On Terra Firma posted:Oh please oh please oh please oh please At this point I think it's probably more reasonable and respectable to hope that Donald Trump isn't an actual child molester, like it's fine to be pleased that a notoriously lovely person may finally be having the unflattering light of public and legal scrutiny shone upon him and to hope that it sticks, but when things start getting to the point of "man I sure hope this guy did even more heinous things" it starts to get a little ghoulish.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:14
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Yes, let's only help the people we like, people who think like us and talk like us. Real Americans. All those undesirable types can get hosed. Classic progressive ideals on display. I'd say we have a moral duty to help anyone who needs it, without conditions. Doctors don't refuse to operate on people with bad opinions, and we shouldn't support social or economic policies that marginalize people just because we find their personal politics despicable. Also, as a sheer practical matter, this is a long-term political strategy calculation. Sticking with the coal industry example: Investing in a robust effort to support coal workers in transitioning to other, better economic opportunities is a gamble with uncertain returns, but doing nothing and letting those families and their children sink deeper into poverty and desperation (a likely consequence of the wholesale collapse of the industry) is all but guaranteed to prolong this struggle for another generation. Or two or three, given how socioeconomic circumstances and political views tend to be passed down in families. In the very long run, we're probably all better off if we put in the work of making that transition less painful. Maybe most of the current generation won't appreciate it, maybe they'll see it as unwelcome interference. But hopefully it would move the needle a little bit, especially with younger people who aren't quite as hidebound... especially if they're able to get a decent education as part of the bargain. We need to be thinking ahead, not indulging in petty revenge politics.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:14
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Nessus posted:I agree with you but I am recognizing the topic may come up and it is possible bad things may occur as a result, especially if people in Region X can't get what they want from their leaders because Region Y's leaders are preventing Region X's guys from accomplishing anything at all. yeah democracy is built on compromises. that's kind of the point of it
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Oct 25, 2016 07:15
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Kilroy posted:There are places in the world that are a lot worse off than West Virginia. Why not stop transferring wealth to West Virginia and transfer it to those places instead? Kansas and WV are not remotely the same and have very different issues and political histories. Reminder, we took medicaid expansion in WV and embraced stuff like WIC.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:16
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boner confessor posted:lmao that you have zero perspective on what red states are actually like, who lives there, and you're fantasizing about hurting the Redneck In Your Mind while advocating horribly regressive policies, all while claiming to be a liberal Like I said before, in this thread and others, to the extent we can target actual people who need help in those places, let's go ahead and do it. But, if people in blue states get better took care of and took care of first, and if blue states eventually get tired of transferring wealth to other states predominantly populated by people who hate their loving guts, then it doesn't seem like there is any great injustice there. We're not talking about keeping money for ourselves here - this is helping people where we can do the most good, and usually red states ain't it.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:16
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Kai Tave posted:At this point I think it's probably more reasonable and respectable to hope that Donald Trump isn't an actual child molester, like it's fine to be pleased that a notoriously lovely person may finally be having the unflattering light of public and legal scrutiny shone upon him and to hope that it sticks, but when things start getting to the point of "man I sure hope this guy did even more heinous things" it starts to get a little ghoulish. If he's already done it then there isn't anything we can do about it. I don't hope he did things, but if he did them then I want them to come to light. Wishing for that isn't ghoulish at all, it's actually a very good thing for the country to prevent someone like that from holding public office.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:17
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:So how long until the first underage victim comes forward. One already has: http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/ However, just like the Ivana rape accusation and the woman coming forward about the sexual assault in July it was overlooked or assumed to be a political attack by NeverTrumpers.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:17
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Kilroy posted:I grew up in eastern Washington, that's close enough to "red state" and I'd probably be more sympathetic if I hadn't grown up surrounded by the fuckers. please don't air your abusive childhood grievances in this thread masquerading as worthless opinions about the welfare state tia
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Oct 25, 2016 07:17
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Kilroy posted:I grew up in eastern Washington, that's close enough to "red state" and I'd probably be more sympathetic if I hadn't grown up surrounded by the fuckers. If there's still a Republican party as we know it, of course.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:18
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Trapped in bad fanfic of 2016, send help.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:19
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GalacticAcid posted:I actually would be interested in knowing the three books that most influenced posters' politics, whether ideology or practice. 1984. I know this is a red flag for a lot of people because of how the book's been waved around by right-wingers and libertarians who don't understand the first thing about it, but I really it helped me understand the political climate I grew up in. I read this when I was fourteen, in 2005, when the Iraq war as in full swing, the US was torturing prisoners, the law that authorized sweeping domestic spying was called the Patriot Act, and you were a coward and a traitor if you ever questioned the spurious and shifting justifications for these things. "We have always been at war with Eurasia" stops being hyperbole pretty loving fast if you look at how the right wing media operates. God and the State. More of an essay than a book, but important enough to me that I feel I should mention it. While I don't consider myself an anarchist, I found this a very welcome source of left-atheist philosophy at a time when it seems like atheism is in the grip of neoconservatives and the alt-right. Of particular note is that, while Bakunin rejects all state and religious authority, he does not reject authority as a concept - rather, he respects the authority of people specifically in the things that they have proven their knowledge and expertise in. Lies My Teacher Told Me. A nice antidote to the Great Man view of history. Helped me develop a more nuanced view of history in general, too. Right-wing ideas tend not to hold up well to nuance, since they almost always (implicitly or explicitly) reject it.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:21
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ErIog posted:One already has: http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/
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Oct 25, 2016 07:21
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cult member at airport posted:Is 2018 guaranteed to be a lost cause? If the same Democrats campaigning for Hillary now - Barack and Michelle, Biden, Sanders,and Warren - travel the country endorsing Democratic candidates I think they've got a real shot. All of them are relatively well liked and can drum up enthusiasm. Compare that to the Republicans who, after November 8, won't have any good figureheads who could do that. A lot can change in two years, but right now it doesn't look good. The same demographic bases that give Democrats a nigh-impenetrable electoral wall in presidential years give Republicans a daunting advantage in midterms. Getting younger and poorer people to the polls in midterms is a huge challenge that I'm not sure anything the Democrats do can change that. The ball is in the Republicans' court. If the Republican Civil War worsens and continues into 2018, then that would definitely hurt them. Similarly, if they hold on to the Senate this time and refuse to even consider Hillary's Supreme Court nominations the same way they're doing for Obama right now, that might piss people off enough to whip up a massive pushback against them. So basically we're relying on the Republican Party to continue shooting itself in the foot as hard as they have been during this election cycle if we want a chance to maintain control in 2018.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:23
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gently caress Donald Trump for being such a reprehensible sex offender piece of poo poo the story seems feasible in the first place, double gently caress him if it's true, and gently caress everyone who's enabling his power grab, unsuccessful though it's clearly going to be. You know who I am watching with ghoulish delight? The spineless GOP stoogies who doubled back on condemnations when they thought the heat was off. They deserve to die on this hill.
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Oct 25, 2016 07:23
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