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site posted:Sounds like a Ghostbusters/Batman crossover waiting to happen to me Batman/Ghostbusters: The Ghost of the Demon Every time Ra's al Ghul dies, he returns resurrected from the Lazarus Pit. However, a part of his soul is lost each time he comes back from the dead to his physical body. Now after so many rebirths, those fractions of his soul have coalesced into a ghostly Ra's with a more corrupted vision of saving the world. Uneasy with the paranormal and besieged by his own self, Batman and Ra's call in the experts in the field to stave off the extinction of all life on the planet.
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Oct 26, 2016 00:59
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I'd read it
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Oct 26, 2016 01:02
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mind the walrus posted:Has the Spectre ever dealt with the Joker? Only one that occurs to me is a J.M. DeMatteis fill-in issue of JLA just before the last Morrison story arc, which I think took place pretty soon after Hal Jordan became the Spectre. It has a bit where Martian Manhunter takes the Spectre and the JLA into the Joker's head, where they find this friendly couple who welcome them and invite them to make themselves at home, to prove that there's something to redeem even in the most twisted human mind of all.
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Oct 26, 2016 01:08
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Wheat Loaf posted:Only one that occurs to me is a J.M. DeMatteis fill-in issue of JLA just before the last Morrison story arc, which I think took place pretty soon after Hal Jordan became the Spectre. It has a bit where Martian Manhunter takes the Spectre and the JLA into the Joker's head, where they find this friendly couple who welcome them and invite them to make themselves at home, to prove that there's something to redeem even in the most twisted human mind of all. Basically every time the Spectre interacts with the Joker there's an excuse for not killing him.
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Oct 26, 2016 02:21
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quite stretched out posted:also the founding fathers summoned a bat demon that was trapped under gotham city which exerts an evil influence on everyone who lives there Cool. Onmi posted:Basically every time the Spectre interacts with the Joker there's an excuse for not killing him. Less cool.
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Oct 26, 2016 02:29
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I think the general excuse was 'Joker is so inherently crazy he really has no concept of right and wrong and Spectre operates on black and white morality where you have to know on some level you're doing the wrong thing.' Basically Joker loopholes his powers, though I'm sure there's some comic repudiating that and making it "Joker won't die because he's too popular.'
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Oct 26, 2016 03:25
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mind the walrus posted:Has the Spectre ever dealt with the Joker? Yes, he has. The Spectre v3 #51 saw him enter the Joker's soul. To start with, the Joker comes to New York (Corrigan's base of operations) and Batman follows. Some comedian is doing an act as the Joker, Joker finds out, murderous hijinks ensure. The Spectre accosts Joker, who appeals to his henchmen to do something about it, and the Spectre kills them. Spectre is about to wreak his vengeance upon the Joker and Batman talks him out of doing it until he examines the Joker's capacity for understanding good and evil; Batman asserts that as a sociopath the Joker can't do that. Because when the Spectre enters a person's soul they have the inherent home-field advantage, Joker takes the Spectre-force for a ride and causes some (relatively) minor havoc. Within Joker's soul, a part of him tries to kill Corrigan, who's trying to find the Joker's conscience and failing. Joker whips a bunch of cords at him, but Corrigan decides to use them to plug into himself and feed the conscience he has "in spades" to the Joker. We get the following:   
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Oct 26, 2016 05:28
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I loving hate that poo poo. So Batman's ok with some hired goons being murdered, but oh no, not the guy in the clown makeup. Or is it enough to say that you're unaware of good and evil and the Sprectre can't touch you because nyer?
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Oct 26, 2016 07:31
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Cassa posted:Or is it enough to say that you're unaware of good and evil and the Sprectre can't touch you because nyer? Spectre seems to take a criminal justice perspective -- since the Joker didn't have the mens rea during the act of the crime he shouldn't be found criminally responsible for his act. Of course, all that seems moot since that last page explicitly state by the Joker himself, in front of Batman and God's personal instrument of vengeance, that he's sorry and shouldn't be forgiven, which means he acknowledges he committed criminal acts which means he knows right from wrong, which is the textbook definition of mens rea. On the other hand, if the Spectre is following the law, then the Joker's acceptance of what he's done is irrelevant because the important fact is whether or not he knew at the time of the criminal act that what he was doing was wrong, which he didn't. All that seem irrelevant though because the Spectre is the wrath of God himself so why is he worrying about legal technicalities? Isn't Spectre representative of the same Old Testament God that destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah, that flooded the earth, that ordered a man to kill his own son, etc.? It seems to be pretty black and white heavenly judgement.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:03
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Spectre seems to take a criminal justice perspective -- since the Joker didn't have the mens rea during the act of the crime he shouldn't be found criminally responsible for his act. Maybe... That comic sucks.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:05
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dont even fink about it posted:Maybe... That comic sucks. Immediately after I posted that I questioned why I typed it.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:07
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Obviously God wants joker to continue being a serial killer
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Oct 26, 2016 08:14
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site posted:Obviously God wants joker to continue being a serial killer Well? How ELSE are good innocent people supposed to get to Heaven in comics if no one ever ages??? 
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Oct 26, 2016 08:51
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Wheat Loaf posted:Only one that occurs to me is a J.M. DeMatteis fill-in issue of JLA just before the last Morrison story arc, which I think took place pretty soon after Hal Jordan became the Spectre. It has a bit where Martian Manhunter takes the Spectre and the JLA into the Joker's head, where they find this friendly couple who welcome them and invite them to make themselves at home, to prove that there's something to redeem even in the most twisted human mind of all. Specifically that nice couple was Joseph Kerr, the Joker's identity after he had a psychotic (anti-psychotic?) break in Going Sane after he thought he killed Batman, and his girlfriend who he wound up abandoning when he learned Batman was still alive before the Joker reemerged. 
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Oct 26, 2016 11:57
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ManiacClown posted:Yes, he has. The Spectre v3 #51 saw him enter the Joker's soul. To start with, the Joker comes to New York (Corrigan's base of operations) and Batman follows. Some comedian is doing an act as the Joker, Joker finds out, murderous hijinks ensure. The Spectre accosts Joker, who appeals to his henchmen to do something about it, and the Spectre kills them. Spectre is about to wreak his vengeance upon the Joker and Batman talks him out of doing it until he examines the Joker's capacity for understanding good and evil; Batman asserts that as a sociopath the Joker can't do that. Because when the Spectre enters a person's soul they have the inherent home-field advantage, Joker takes the Spectre-force for a ride and causes some (relatively) minor havoc. Within Joker's soul, a part of him tries to kill Corrigan, who's trying to find the Joker's conscience and failing. Joker whips a bunch of cords at him, but Corrigan decides to use them to plug into himself and feed the conscience he has "in spades" to the Joker. We get the following: There is so much evidence against the idea of Joker not having a sense of right and wrong.
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Oct 26, 2016 13:25
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I dig the art on the first page.
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Oct 26, 2016 13:41
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Yvonmukluk posted:Joseph Kerr Are you loving kidding me. Of course in a universe with the name Edward Nigma, I suppose I can't complain too much.
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Oct 26, 2016 14:01
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Cassa posted:I loving hate that poo poo. So Batman's ok with some hired goons being murdered, but oh no, not the guy in the clown makeup. Henchmen are replaceable. Without the Joker and others, Batman has no job, has no meaning. He deliberately keeps them alive so that he can maintain his fantasy world of being a hero.
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Oct 26, 2016 15:03
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flosofl posted:Are you loving kidding me. Not his real name. Aside from the movie giving us Jack Napier the Joker doesn't have a canon name. Joseph Kerr was a frequently used alter ego, where how obvious it was to Batman was the joke.
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Oct 26, 2016 15:06
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Of course, all that seems moot since that last page explicitly state by the Joker himself, in front of Batman and God's personal instrument of vengeance, that he's sorry and shouldn't be forgiven, which means he acknowledges he committed criminal acts which means he knows right from wrong, which is the textbook definition of mens rea. Yes but the argument between Bats and the Spectre is whether Joker understands right and wrong and he only has the revelation that he shouldn't be forgiven after Spectre forces a moral compass onto him. The understanding doesn't come from Joker and Spectre even says that his little forced morality catatonic state will wear off and he'll be back to his old self. I mean, don't get be wrong, it's still dumb, but it makes a kind of sense... Nah, it's dumb.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:20
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Lurdiak posted:There wouldn't be no Bane if his country had prison reform! and there'd be no Joker if that poor comedian had been able to take his pregnant wife for a pre-natal checkup at the Wayne Memorial Free Hospital, so that she wasn't home when their apartment building burned down. "Hey, do you want to be recruited into our plan to rob the chemical plant?" "Sorry, guys, I gotta take my wife to her appointment at the hospital. Maybe another day?"
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Oct 26, 2016 19:19
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purple death ray posted:Not his real name. Aside from the movie giving us Jack Napier the Joker doesn't have a canon name. Joseph Kerr was a frequently used alter ego, where how obvious it was to Batman was the joke. I think in Going Sane, it wasn't intentional for him. Just a new personality that took over and the name he subconsciously came up with. There's a scene of him looking at his mail and staring at the name, slowly scratching out letters before constantly shifting his facial expression until smiling while crying.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:12
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Onmi posted:It's not about putting criminals behind bars or funding the police force. It's about instilling fear. "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot." Batman is effective not simply because he can put them in jail, but because they fear him, he becomes the bed time story, every time someone thinks of committing a crime, there is the feeling in the back of their head, "Batman will find me." And they may brush it off "Batman wouldn't be there for little old me." and then Batman is there for little old you, and he stops you. This is why the Best Batman is the one panel where a Sinestro Power Ring landed on Batman.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:20
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The problem with the "superstitious and cowardly lot" problem is that it assumes criminals are inherently evil people and not, y'know, people with serious mental illnesses or people who come from hosed up situations with no real better choices or so-on. Which is pretty loving ironic considering that Batman's rogue gallery is full of criminals who are neither superstitious nor cowardly and indeed a good chunk would in fact benefit more from serious actual help rather than being punched in the face over and over. Mr. Freeze or Two-Face for starters.
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Oct 26, 2016 22:39
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That was one thing I did like about Mr. Freeze in Arkham City. He's really sympathetic until the instant Batman refuses to do exactly what he wants, at which point he holds Batman hostage and you realize "oh yeah this guy is a supreme rear end in a top hat." Batman kicks his rear end and Freeze becomes co-operative again, but there's never a sense afterwards that he's a decent person just because his motivations are valid.
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Oct 26, 2016 22:47
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That entire game is full of situations Batman made worse by refusing to meet people halfway.
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Oct 26, 2016 22:49
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Joker's mind is so broken, even Judge Death couldn't possess it. 
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Oct 26, 2016 23:00
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Say Nothing posted:Joker's mind is so broken, even Judge Death couldn't possess it. Beautiful little moment. Is there a batman/dredd worth finding/purchasing?
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Oct 26, 2016 23:08
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with the "superstitious and cowardly lot" problem is that it assumes criminals are inherently evil people and not, y'know, people with serious mental illnesses or people who come from hosed up situations with no real better choices or so-on. The 'superstitious and cowardly lot' refers to the mob and its various enforcers/lackeys, all of the hosed up superpowered plant ladies and giant crocodile men came about to fill the power vacuum left behind by the 'superstitious and cowardly lot'. Batman didn't become Batman to punch clowns in the face.
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Oct 26, 2016 23:09
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mind the walrus posted:That was one thing I did like about Mr. Freeze in Arkham City. He's really sympathetic until the instant Batman refuses to do exactly what he wants, at which point he holds Batman hostage and you realize "oh yeah this guy is a supreme rear end in a top hat." Batman kicks his rear end and Freeze becomes co-operative again, but there's never a sense afterwards that he's a decent person just because his motivations are valid. You left out the part where, before the part you mention, Batman was basically torturing Mr. Freeze for info. This is while Mr. Freeze was being held captive by someone else and was absolutely no threat to him. I mean, yes, Batman was having a REALLY lovely day, and I think he did free him from captivity afterwards, but don't pretend there wasn't a little bit of turnabout. Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 23:10
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Toadstrieb posted:Beautiful little moment. Is there a batman/dredd worth finding/purchasing? I'm pretty sure all of the Batman/Dredd stuff is in this trade. I remember it all being a pretty decent read.
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Oct 26, 2016 23:19
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The Spectre really works well in his own corner away from others (except maybe supernatural/magic DC stuff). It's hard to imagine a being who basically genocided an entire nation to teach two people a lesson being the same being who lets Joker live.
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Oct 27, 2016 01:11
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Does anyone have those panels from the story where Wolverine gets killed, resurrected, and mind controlled by the Hand into murdering various superheroes, and then he (along with a handful of zombie Hand ninjas) somehow manages to sneak up on Daredevil? Someone brought it up in a convo today and I recall that fight being particularly good.
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Oct 27, 2016 02:43
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with the "superstitious and cowardly lot" problem is that it assumes criminals are inherently evil people and not, y'know, people with serious mental illnesses or people who come from hosed up situations with no real better choices or so-on. I think it requires a lot of cognitive dissonance to ignore all the times that he's taken them to get help, been sympathetic to their plight, etc. At the end of the day if you really need mental help but you also kill a bunch of people because you're coping with your pain by letting a coin make all sorts of decisions (that you still frame and have control over) then you're still a loving murderer. Like, his rogues all wind up in Arkham and not Gotham State because they are attempting treatment.
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Oct 27, 2016 07:17
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Sigma-X posted:I think it requires a lot of cognitive dissonance to ignore all the times that he's taken them to get help, been sympathetic to their plight, etc. At the end of the day if you really need mental help but you also kill a bunch of people because you're coping with your pain by letting a coin make all sorts of decisions (that you still frame and have control over) then you're still a loving murderer. Not all of them, People tend to forget not all of Batmans rogues are criminally insane, some of them are just mobsters who wind up in Blackwater at the end of it.
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Oct 27, 2016 07:52
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The Spectre is literally the wrath of God, right? If he wanted to kill some hired goons or Joker or everyone within a 5 mile radius of him, what could Batman do to stop him? Onmi posted:Not all of them, People tend to forget not all of Batmans rogues are criminally insane, some of them are just mobsters who wind up in Blackwater at the end of it. Catwoman and Penguin are the only two I can think of that end up in Blackgate. Maybe Black Mask too?
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Oct 27, 2016 11:18
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SonicRulez posted:The Spectre is literally the wrath of God, right? If he wanted to kill some hired goons or Joker or everyone within a 5 mile radius of him, what could Batman do to stop him? Nothing, which is why Batman's plan is to convince him to not do that.
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Oct 27, 2016 12:32
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SonicRulez posted:
Bane?
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Oct 27, 2016 14:00
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Sigma-X posted:I think it requires a lot of cognitive dissonance to ignore all the times that he's taken them to get help, been sympathetic to their plight, etc. At the end of the day if you really need mental help but you also kill a bunch of people because you're coping with your pain by letting a coin make all sorts of decisions (that you still frame and have control over) then you're still a loving murderer. I would argue that sending somehow to Arkham is the opposite of getting them mental help.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:28
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SonicRulez posted:Catwoman and Penguin are the only two I can think of that end up in Blackgate. Maybe Black Mask too? All those mobster guys from the 70s they no longer use, even though they were super interesting.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:32
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