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Narrative structure and payoff. Let's repeat it: Narrative structure and payoff. That's why there won't be two different timelines/time frames because you don't sacrifice those for some cheap twists unless you are a total hack as writer (which is why I give this whole theory exactly 0,01% to be true).
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Oct 26, 2016 05:58
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LinkesAuge posted:Narrative structure and payoff. who wants to bet 1000 bucks this dweeb is a failed writer
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Oct 26, 2016 06:02
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Caught how ford told the hosts to all stop and to resume while he was admonishing Theresa Cullen. They are seated at the agave plantation and talking. When it cuts to the full view of Ford, her and the host waiter, peep his left hand index finger. It's prominently displayed, for both the stop and the start of the hosts. If the writers and actors are looking so far in depth as a micro expression as that, well, buckle up kids. We are all in for a ride. VendaGoat fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 06:33
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Teddy has his new backstory given to him and leaves Dolores. That same night, Dolores returns home and shoots Trevor. Then she escapes and finds William. That same night, Teddy goes after Wyatt, gets beaten up, and tied to the tree. Then the Man in Black finds him. There are not two timelines.
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Oct 26, 2016 06:50
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Codependent Poster posted:Teddy has his new backstory given to him and leaves Dolores. That same night, Dolores returns home and shoots Trevor. Then she escapes and finds William. TBF Teddy could have been beaten up and tied to that tree thousands of times. Hopkins would just have to also be a host.
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Oct 26, 2016 06:53
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Reiterating it's funny how cynical people are to have so little faith in a television show's writing/editing that they would pull a cheap, worthless bait-and-switch by being willfully deceptive to the viewer that the two timelines theory is even being discussed. When you give up hope, they've won. For meaningful contribution, I definitely think Hopkins watched the Hannibal show and was inspired with the amount of micro-expression work and low-key acting work and how effective it can be in the right circumstances. And they are doing lots of close-up camerawork, it seems. On that note, it just me or did it seem like the head-smashed hu-bot have like a bit of what looked like some kind of plastic 'egg' down near the line of how far he smashed in? I looked for a shot close enough to say for a certainty but they deliberately avoided any angles or closeness to point to for sure as proof. It was basically down to the mouth, which would be a good spot and pretty deep and probably not hit that often with those Simunitions. And with the last episode we know the bodily reactions from gunshot wounds are not the host's bodies reacting to anything but a bullet that acts as such. The removal of that deformed one and all.
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Oct 26, 2016 07:45
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Paulocaust posted:who wants to bet 1000 bucks this dweeb is a failed writer lmao
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Oct 26, 2016 07:57
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Until such time as these factors, and I wish you all to know I am drunk before I post these. Until such time as the following are shown on screen we are in a superposition, even your loving physics lessons you cunts. Until it is announced in such as manner as to explain as such, until Dolores is shows as such, until Teddy is expounded upon as such, Until Ford delineates as such, we are in the dark. The other possibility is the MiB having some sort of.... loving  ... Reverie. Until any of these things are concrete, enjoy the ambiguity of Schrodinger, his box and a cat. Huh, huh, huh. It's also the nature of life. If you can accept this as wonderful writing. And excellent story telling. Welcome brother/sister. We've been expecting you. Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 26, 2016 08:04
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this thread gets weird during the week
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Oct 26, 2016 08:07
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404notfound posted:this thread gets weird during the week It's not responsible anymore to release TV shows one episode every seven days.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:09
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404notfound posted:this thread gets weird during the week  May it never change. I am very much enjoying all aspects of it and this thread. This is a major credit to Time Warner/HBO/The writers/The actors involved. VendaGoat fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 08:10
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have u considered an intervention from perhaps this fictional television show
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Oct 26, 2016 08:17
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The Saddest Rhino posted:have u considered an intervention from perhaps this fictional television show Are you attempting to intervene in my narrative of delivering fire to these hosts?
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Oct 26, 2016 08:19
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Funhilde posted:The little statue the Native American gal drops is similar to Hopi Kachina statues. Just an interesting way to blur the lines of reality just about more in a cool way. Good catch. The color schemes lend themselves to the white and red accented suits:  I tried to read up on the cultural significance of Kachinas, and it seems the most important bit parallels what Hector said of the cleansuit doll: "supernatural beings who... act as a link between gods and mortals" So the culture reference seems well chosen. Lycus posted:I like how the laborers at the work site are the hosts made for Odyssey on Red River in their original costumes. Also nice catch. Hope they bring back Sizemore so he can get poo poo on more.
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Oct 26, 2016 08:26
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404notfound posted:this thread gets weird during the week Prestige television equals negligent posting.
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Oct 26, 2016 10:39
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kimbo305 posted:Good catch. We haven't seen him for two episodes, have we? I hope he wasn't scrubbed from the show during retooling.
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Oct 26, 2016 11:27
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It occured to me that the whole "Maeve isn't sexing enough" side story got forgotten about, unless I'm missing something? Didn't she get marked for decommissioning, with Ashley saying that he was leaving her in the world for one last night for guests to have a final fling? Did that just get forgotten about?
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Oct 26, 2016 12:09
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*waves finger, freezing thread until Sunday*
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Oct 26, 2016 12:12
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I think a lot of people in the thread are setting themselves up for disappointment if it's not revealed in the end that they are all in a VR simulation on Mars with each character being a different timeline version of the same person who is also a host. And the guns were walkie talkies all along and never fired anything. It's like video game hype applied to a TV show. It's not the show's fault if you come up with theories with very little evidence that don#'t pan out to be true.
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Oct 26, 2016 12:59
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Justin Credible posted:On that note, it just me or did it seem like the head-smashed hu-bot have like a bit of what looked like some kind of plastic 'egg' down near the line of how far he smashed in? I looked for a shot close enough to say for a certainty but they deliberately avoided any angles or closeness to point to for sure as proof. It was basically down to the mouth, which would be a good spot and pretty deep and probably not hit that often with those Simunitions. I'm not seeing that, but here's a screenshot of the scene from one of those image dumps. And more possibly spoilery images here and here.
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Oct 26, 2016 13:02
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Disco De Soto posted:*waves finger, freezing thread until Sunday*
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Oct 26, 2016 13:32
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LinkesAuge posted:Narrative structure and payoff. Also, there was that whole speech by Ford about why the Westworld narrative shouldn't be cheap and gimmicky and dumb. While the writers at the time might not have predicted that some internet forum user would read so much into their show that it would create a 2 timeline theory.... Hang on Let me point out, we're not really dealing with 2 timelines even if William or Logan is the MiB. That's still 1 timeline. It's just past and present in the same timeline. [Past]Logan/William<----------------------->[Present]MiB 2 timelines looks like this code:Durzel posted:It occured to me that the whole "Maeve isn't sexing enough" side story got forgotten about, unless I'm missing something? Didn't she get marked for decommissioning, with Ashley saying that he was leaving her in the world for one last night for guests to have a final fling? Did that just get forgotten about? tadashi fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 13:38
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I haven't followed a TV IV thread in a while. I forgot all the insanely stupid theories that get thrown around. It's kind of amazing
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Oct 26, 2016 13:43
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RCarr posted:I haven't followed a TV IV thread in a while. I forgot all the insanely stupid theories that get thrown around. It's kind of amazing If you have archives I highly recommend you read the True Detective season one thread. It is my all time favorite thing.
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Oct 26, 2016 13:53
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Durzel posted:It occured to me that the whole "Maeve isn't sexing enough" side story got forgotten about, unless I'm missing something? Didn't she get marked for decommissioning, with Ashley saying that he was leaving her in the world for one last night for guests to have a final fling? Did that just get forgotten about? Elsie "fixed" her by boosting her intuition and knocking Sizemore for thinking like a man in solving the problem (he made her more aggressive or sexed-up or something that caused a potential lady client to run off).
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Oct 26, 2016 14:08
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Rewatching the episodes again, and I'm still impressed by the way they show the hosts glitching out, and how they sit perfectly still when they're being diagnosed. When Abernathy glitches and stutters in the first episode, he looks like a stop motion figure. Some CGI trickery I guess for the twitching eyes, but it looks so real. Here's to the lady in the white shoes. old bean factory fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 15:19
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LinkesAuge posted:Narrative structure and payoff. Justin Credible posted:Reiterating it's funny how cynical people are to have so little faith in a television show's writing/editing that they would pull a cheap, worthless bait-and-switch by being willfully deceptive to the viewer that the two timelines theory is even being discussed. When you give up hope, they've won. I have to agree with people who aren't fans of the timelines theory. To me it would be cheap, and they would need to pull some very heavy lifting in the upcoming episodes to make it all fit. Because right now, even with the arguments for it, it's not satisfying. To me these arguments don't really add up, nor do they add anything to the show that couldn't be accomplished by William & MiB just happening to be running two concurrent storylines and thus not meeting up with the same people in these past few episodes. For instance, we've heard that 30 years ago, the robots were nowhere near as lifelike. Why are we then meant to believe that these two timelines are basically indistinguishable to the average viewer, with everyone acting the same? And we've seen how hosts are re-purposed and new storylines are a thing (for instance the flashback to Abernathy's cannibal dinner), so are we meant to believe Dolores has been doing the same loop literally every single day for 30 years? Then why is she getting flashbacks to the church and other random poo poo, where would that fit in? Not only that, but if we are meant to believe (as some people claim) that her storyline with William is separate from her going to Pariah to search for the girl or whatever (to account for the guy in the control room pointing out that she's off-loop) then... how did she meet up with William and Logan? If we are assuming she's just been doing the same loop over and over, then she still has no reason to have met up with them because her storyline ends at the farm unless someone saves her, and we see her coming out of the darkness and William/Logan not expecting her. So she must have broken her loop back then, and then the question is how did she have the guts/wherewithal to use the gun when, if it's not two timelines, we see her flashbacking to MiB and previous encounters to figure out how to do it? So how did she do it back then? And are you saying they didn't fix her at all and now she's gone rogue and they're like "meh, maybe send another host to check it out"? ???? Like I'm sure people will handwave these questions away, but to me things like this are why two timelines wouldn't be satisfying even if that's where the show went. That and, back to the writing, we already see some timeline fuckery via flashbacks. Having both those and some weird present/past timeline would be too complex for no good reason. That's my opinion on all of it, anyway.
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Oct 26, 2016 15:59
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Lycus posted:I was gonna say: who's theorizing that William & Logan are Arnold & Ford? Because that would make an insanely little amount of sense. I did, as a parody of the stupid two timeline theories. indigi posted:hey, maybe William is actually Ford, and he's just loving with his new brother-in-law by pretending it's his first time! maybe the brother-in-law is Arnold in costume and it's a double bluff....wouldn't that be FUCT UP? have you ever questioned the nature of ur reality??!?!??!?! pik_d posted:It really doesn't. You're only arguing that he's a host because it fits your narrative. Others are saying he's human because it fits theirs. Neither side is strengthened in the end. here's why this is stupid: there is zero (0) evidence that hosts also function as employees engaging in the operation of Westworld. none. no hints. no reason to believe that might be the case. based on the fact that their programming still routinely fails and is a problem the programmers/behaviorists are always dealing with (and QA is consistently up their rear end about), it would be asinine to entrust hosts with responsibilities that involve supervising the safety of both guests and other employees. it'd be an order of magnitude more difficult (not to mention more risky) to program, when they can't even make a fuckin whorebot touch its lip without unintended consequences. it's, frankly, a wildly stupid conclusion to draw from the evidence presented. the only rebuttal seems to be "well we haven't seen anyone confirm on-screen that Hemsworth isn't a host by performing a vivisection," in which case, Ford, William, Bernard, Elsie, Theresa, and the MiB are also hosts. where's the evidence that they aren't? indigi fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 16:03
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Actually we've had one hint that hosts work for Delos outside the park, and attempt to blur the line between employee and host, William's orientation lady. But I'm pretty sure she was human.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:18
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that's why I specified "in the operation of Westworld." the greeter hosts - if they are hosts - aren't operating anything.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:25
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Actually we've had one hint that hosts work for Delos outside the park, and attempt to blur the line between employee and host, William's orientation lady. "All our hosts are here for you. Myself included." Up until that point, I would've agreed though.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:30
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Durzel posted:It occured to me that the whole "Maeve isn't sexing enough" side story got forgotten about, unless I'm missing something? Didn't she get marked for decommissioning, with Ashley saying that he was leaving her in the world for one last night for guests to have a final fling? Did that just get forgotten about? Pretty clearly resolved in that very same episode. The story guys upped her aggressiveness by 10%, which didn't work. The tech lady with concerns about the hosts (forget her name) upped Maeve's empathy a bit and it got her back on track. Goons can't watch tv shows.
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Oct 26, 2016 16:55
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indigi posted:I did, as a parody of the stupid two timeline theories. Ya and to repeat what I already said once before: It just cheapens the story of Dolores/Maeve and the other hosts if there would already be a fully conscious employee host. Why introduce such an element if you want to tell the story about HOW conscious robots came to be in the first place. It would totally undermine that goal and would just lead to further question that needed to be explained. It's opening a can of worms just for a "gotcha" moment.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:29
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VendaGoat posted:She is effectively immortal and we do not know which timeline, if any, proceeds the other. She was there for the events that preceded the story rewrite- the reverie incident and all that. That must have been in the past because the Man in Black is taking part in the new story-line. But Maeve is also there to experience the effects of the Man in Black's adventure. The humans who disturbed his vacation go on to raid the town with Hector, and the scene at the end of this last episode happens, which builds on everything that Maeve has been through. If there are two timelines, the Man in Black is in the more future one. Therefore Delores remembering the Man in Black right before she breaks her programming and shoots means... there aren't two timelines. At least not ones separated by any significant amount. Obviously there's a lot of playing with host loops, and there are clearly some tricks with chronology. But they aren't 30 years apart at least. And honestly, wouldn't it be ridiculous for Delores, Maeve, Teddy, Maeve's prostitute friend, and many other background characters who have showed up in "both" timelines to have been in the exact same role for 30 years, at the same time as we're shown explicitly that they've had different roles? Eiba fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 17:31
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Can I know why the theory that the Man in Black "is someone else" is so widespread? There must be something I'm missing, obviously. Has the show suggested that someone might be someone else? I expect that in following seasons we might see hosts blending in, but this show probably doesn't want to redo Battlestar Galactica all over again.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:36
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Abalieno posted:Can I know why the theory that the Man in Black "is someone else" is so widespread? We still don't know his name, he claimed to be "born" in the park 30 years ago, and his interaction with Dolores compared to that of William. Those are the three things that stick out to me the most.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:43
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The fact that they won't say his name is part of it. It implies to some that his name will be a reveal. E: beat
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Oct 26, 2016 17:45
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Lycus posted:The fact that they won't say his name is part of it. It implies to some that his name will be a reveal. Yes, but why we should expect the show to play with people's appearances when this element has never been introduced? Every other guests looks exactly the same in the park. There haven't been cases of face-swap. So? Why do you even assume it's an element of the show? The Man in Black identity is "secret" because very obviously (I think) he's the representative of the board. He's one of the first client of the park because he PAYS for the thing. And Ford very obviously knows that. As I said in my own theory Ford plans to take away the whole thing from the board's hands, and offer the keys directly to the androids.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:51
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Lycus posted:The fact that they won't say his name is part of it. It implies to some that his name will be a reveal. Or it would be like Bill Gates not wanting to say his name at Disneyland, because obviously he gets enough attention already from people that recognize him, and dammit this is his vacation.
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Oct 26, 2016 17:52
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Mike the TV posted:Or it would be like Bill Gates not wanting to say his name at Disneyland, because obviously he gets enough attention already from people that recognize him, and dammit this is his vacation. He mostly interacts with the hosts, who wouldn't know Bill Gates, or whatever the MiB's name is. Why would something like that prevent us, the viewer, from being allowed to know his name?
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Oct 26, 2016 17:55
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