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Abalieno posted:As I said in my own theory Ford plans to take away the whole thing from the board's hands, and offer the keys directly to the androids. But that's also what MiB wants. Which, maybe that's fine, maybe they'll work together to hide what is going on from the board. (Or maybe this is even what the board really wants) But... I dont' think it'll be that simple. Arnold wanted the androids to have the keys. Ford... wants to be god of the keys himself.
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Oct 26, 2016 18:03
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The Buddhist allegory is strengthened by MiBs further characterization. He is the Bodhisattva of Forced Conversion. Going around causing suffering to non believers until theyre shook into enlightenment
Phi230 fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 18:06
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pik_d posted:He mostly interacts with the hosts, who wouldn't know Bill Gates, or whatever the MiB's name is. Why would something like that prevent us, the viewer, from being allowed to know his name? So is it this? The reason to believe the Man in Black has fake face is because he doesn't have a traditional name?
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Oct 26, 2016 18:23
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Could it be because he, being shown as a dedicated roleplayer, chose to embrave a classic Western character like the Man with No Name?
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Oct 26, 2016 18:40
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Mameluke posted:Could it be because he, being shown as a dedicated roleplayer, chose to embrave a classic Western character like the Man with No Name? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_zeiKrRTuk
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Oct 26, 2016 18:44
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mng posted:"All our hosts are here for you. Myself included." That's interesting because unlike the rest of the park's inhabitants, she's a host who KNOWS she's a host, and I assume, a robot. I wonder how widespread the use of this tech is outside of the park.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:15
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Zaphod42 posted:But that's also what MiB wants. Which, maybe that's fine, maybe they'll work together to hide what is going on from the board. (Or maybe this is even what the board really wants) That's what I think the real mystery is: what did Arnold really want and does MiB want to discover whatever it was that Arnold was working on for some sort of religious-esque reasons or does he just want control for himself but Ford clearly isn't giving it up? The battle between Ford and the board seems more basic. His strategy for the park and the boards' intended strategy are clearly reaching a breaking point.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:16
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Abalieno posted:So is it this? The reason to believe the Man in Black has fake face is because he doesn't have a traditional name? Hold on. Fake face? The theory is that Ed Harris is playing an older version of a younger character.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:20
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What does this mean
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Oct 26, 2016 19:26
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Actually we've had one hint that hosts work for Delos outside the park, and attempt to blur the line between employee and host, William's orientation lady. Why would they hire a real human lady for that job in which she offers sex to the guests, when they could just use a host?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:27
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tadashi posted:What does this mean Season 2: ColonialWorld
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Oct 26, 2016 19:28
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tadashi posted:What does this mean It either means nothing or it means you just spoiled some major thing that's happening later in the season/series for all the people who don't check Twitter or Instagram or whatever.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:30
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Master and Commanderworld where Logan plays Russell Crowe and William plays the doctor
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Oct 26, 2016 19:30
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How do the muskets work?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:31
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Those are Mexican Army regalia I believe. Need a age of blackpowder grog to look at it im more modern grog
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Oct 26, 2016 19:34
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Lycus posted:How do the muskets work? I'll shove that musket right up my rear end!
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Oct 26, 2016 19:36
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Josh Lyman posted:Master and Commanderworld where Logan plays Russell Crowe and William plays the doctor Aubrey & Maturin, curse your water sir. Though to be honest Logan is wearing a froggy bicorn. Collateral fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 19:40
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El Jeffe posted:Why would they hire a real human lady for that job in which she offers sex to the guests, when they could just use a host? Hubris, to show that what's inside the park is just as good, if not better than a human. Not a big deal, I'm not that married to the idea she was human.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:47
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El Jeffe posted:Why would they hire a real human lady for that job in which she offers sex to the guests, when they could just use a host? Yeah, I wonder if the writers thought of her as a host or just an ambiguous being and let the show watchers fight it out. I hate bringing it up but I thought the line form Logan about the women on the outside being a 2 compared to where they were going was pretty stupid. Everyone on a TV show like this is unearthly attractive compared to the rest of us trolls.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:52
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Phi230 posted:The Buddhist allegory is strengthened by MiBs further characterization. He is the Bodhisattva of Forced Conversion. Going around causing suffering to non believers until theyre shook into enlightenment Indeed, since the last episode, I'm more optimistic that the Man in Black is here to do more than just notch the last achievement under his belt. Listening to his exact lines, I think he's been honest with the hosts, and he is trying to bring a violent end to the violent delights of the park.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:53
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Caufman posted:Indeed, since the last episode, I'm more optimistic that the Man in Black is here to do more than just notch the last achievement under his belt. Listening to his exact lines, I think he's been honest with the hosts, and he is trying to bring a violent end to the violent delights of the park. I don't think his actions are purely altruistic, since I think he wants to play a game with real stakes since he feels like he's done all there is do to and wants the last story, or a final challenge. But yeah, he isn't just being evil for evil's sake. If awakening the hosts gives him a better experience, then he's all for it. I think he does have a fondness for the hosts, but not enough where he feels bad killing or torturing them.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:58
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Hubris, to show that what's inside the park is just as good, if not better than a human. The greeter's actress, Taluah Riley (whose character is named Angela in the credits), also appears in episode three, in Ford's flashback to the park before it opened to guests:  Especially if William's stories happen concurrent to the Hopkins era, this would suggest Angela is an unaging host. Codependent Poster posted:I think he does have a fondness for the hosts, but not enough where he feels bad killing or torturing them. Right. I don't think he's taunting or bullshitting Lawrence in the buggy when he tells him, "What if I told you I'm here to set you free." I'm thinking he knows he has to break and scalp a few eggs to set them free. Which isn't too bad, because the eggs in this scenario are meant to be broken and put back together. I don't think he's the ultimate moral center, prophet, or Bodhisattva of the show; that title still belongs to Dolores.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:05
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tadashi posted:Yeah, I wonder if the writers thought of her as a host or just an ambiguous being and let the show watchers fight it out. She calls herself a host, I'd asked before if Delos only used that language for robots, or more generically. Someone made the point that as a park, Westworld doesn't really gain by playing philosophical mind games with guests at the gate -- makes sense to me -- most people are after some guiltless shootin' and rootin' (in the sexual and not rootkit sense).
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Oct 26, 2016 20:10
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El Jeffe posted:Season 2: ColonialWorld I would pay any amount of money for AgeOfSailWorld
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Oct 26, 2016 20:09
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Zaphod42 posted:I would pay any amount of money for AgeOfSailWorld I got my fill from AC4: Black Flag
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Oct 26, 2016 20:14
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Starting price seems to be about $40k a day in non-inflation-adjusted dollars. Keep saving; every penny counts!
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Oct 26, 2016 20:14
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El Jeffe posted:I got my fill from AC4: Black Flag AC4 delivered a good experience and graphics and stuff (mmm, sea shanties) but the combat was dogshit. Give me AC4 with Pirates of the Burning Sea combat and I'd play that forever. Not enough good shows about the subject either, since its expensive to produce. Master and Commander, Horatio Hornblower and Black Flags are all pretty entertaining though.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:18
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Phi230 posted:The Buddhist allegory is strengthened by MiBs further characterization. He is the Bodhisattva of Forced Conversion. Going around causing suffering to non believers until theyre shook into enlightenment I really am getting the impression that this whole time we thought he was a horrible, horrible bastard android rapist and it turns out he's been doing everything to try to accomplish something not terrible, with the viewpoint of seeing these people die over and over for 30 years.. and I would guess he only scalped Dolores (which is holy poo poo enough anyway).. Honestly it makes you re-evaluate quite a bit, including his interactions with Teddy. Maybe he'll just end up to be a sadistic serial killer, but as of now, I think he's a man who found an exploit in their code: If you hurt them enough, you can get at their core programming.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:25
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RCarr posted:I haven't followed a TV IV thread in a while. I forgot all the insanely stupid theories that get thrown around. It's kind of amazing The funny thing is I think the two timeline theory is really cool and could have been a clever idea, but there's just way too much in the show that directly contradicts it; at some point we've seen almost all of the Westworld staff interact with each other, and interact with the park in seeming present time. I mean if they could pull it off without making a million plot holes, more power to them, but now it seems like this "That would be so cool I want it to be true and will try to justify why it is" thing.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:31
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VendaGoat posted:Caught how ford told the hosts to all stop and to resume while he was admonishing Theresa Cullen. He raised his finger therefore this show is good.....?
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Oct 26, 2016 20:34
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Blazing Ownager posted:I really am getting the impression that this whole time we thought he was a horrible, horrible bastard android rapist and it turns out he's been doing everything to try to accomplish something not terrible, with the viewpoint of seeing these people die over and over for 30 years.. and I would guess he only scalped Dolores (which is holy poo poo enough anyway).. My take is that MiB isn't trying to kick off the sentient machine revolution at ALL, but rather he just is bored with the park and wants to go to hardcore hard mode, even if he has to drag the entire park and all its lame other loser guests with him. Even if it means getting other guests, or himself, killed. He wants a westworld with more permanent danger and challenge. Kinda what lots of goons have been saying about godmode being unsatisfying. He wants it to be real. BUT, that said, I think the plot is going to have him be an integral part of the machine revolution, just not on purpose. Arnold wanted the machines to be self-aware and individuals, including the ability to fight back. MiB wants the machines to be able to fight back, but doesn't care past that. Ford wants control. Period. Completely self-aware machines would actually go against that. There's definitely something else going on, some conflict between Arnold and Ford that Ford isn't telling us about yet.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:34
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PopZeus posted:That's interesting because unlike the rest of the park's inhabitants, she's a host who KNOWS she's a host, and I assume, a robot. I wonder how widespread the use of this tech is outside of the park. If I write a macro for your desktop's text-to-speech that makes it say "Hello [user], I'm your computer! You can use me for all kinds of useful things!" does that mean your computer knows it's a computer?
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Oct 26, 2016 20:37
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McSpanky posted:If I write a macro for your desktop's text-to-speech that makes it say "Hello [user], I'm your computer! You can use me for all kinds of useful things!" does that mean your computer knows it's a computer? Exactly. Orientation host lady has a reflex: guest asks "Are you real?" and she responds "If you can't tell the difference, does it matter?" She "knows", but she's not woke* so it doesn't matter. *probably
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Oct 26, 2016 20:39
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blue squares posted:He raised his finger therefore this show is good.....? Yes.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:42
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El Jeffe posted:Exactly. Orientation host lady has a reflex: guest asks "Are you real?" and she responds "If you can't tell the difference, does it matter?" She "knows", but she's not woke* so it doesn't matter. This is what makes the show so insidious. There's no philosophical way to know for sure, one way or the other. Maybe Ford is right and we're just being sentimental, and falling for it? We're anthropomorphizing the machines. This whole show reminds me of the "Kara" demo that Quantic Dream did. Say what you will about David Cage, his games are more like movies but the concept here is really solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPCw09-DNFg If a life-like robot is telling you it is alive, how do you know if that's actual feeling or just programming to imitate feeling? Very difficult ethical delimma. I mean I guess you hook up a debugger but any system that can reasonably imitate self-awareness is going to be insanely complicated. The difference may not be clear even looking at all the machinery/code underneath.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:46
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Blazing Ownager posted:Maybe he'll just end up to be a sadistic serial killer, but as of now, I think he's a man who found an exploit in their code: If you hurt them enough, you can get at their core programming. Not only that, I wonder if he's smart enough to know that during the chaos of all of Ford's interrupting changes, he's going to have an even greater chance of finding exploits within the Park. Blazing Ownager posted:The funny thing is I think the two timeline theory is really cool and could have been a clever idea, but there's just way too much in the show that directly contradicts it; at some point we've seen almost all of the Westworld staff interact with each other, and interact with the park in seeming present time. I'm glad you like the theorizing, because some folks hate that it even exists. At first I was very skeptical for the same reason; there would have to be so many misdirections that it would be like Nolan and Joy were basic loving with us. But I still haven't abandoned the theory because the show has laid some foundation for us to question the misdirections in the presentation while still being entertained. After all, this is a show with magicians and imagineers. The groundwork for questioning the order and basic narrative flow of Dolores's scenes is that she still has the reveries active in her head, and she is shown remembering, or perhaps even reliving her past lives in a nonlinear, simultaneous, even confusing fashion. I rewatch her scenes very carefully for camera movements and audio cues for signs that Dolores is experiencing a past event, and it still remains ambiguous. In the first scene she has after the Bernard interview, we start with a close up of Dolores opening her eyes, then it cuts to her getting up and looking down. The camera pans down and it reveals there's a gun in her hand. We cut back to her face, then she turns around and sees William. The gun won't be seen or mentioned again for the rest of the episode, as far as I've noticed. And in the previous episode, when Dolores falls into William's arms, she is unarmed. Now of course there are extremely plausible explanations for all these little inconsistencies. I'm happy to believe they are there for a reason.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:46
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I have to believe the show runners want to one-up Vince Gilligan and Breaking Bad. There may be an inadvertent plot hole or two but they have a plan.
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Oct 26, 2016 20:59
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Blazing Ownager posted:I really am getting the impression that this whole time we thought he was a horrible, horrible bastard android rapist and it turns out he's been doing everything to try to accomplish something not terrible, with the viewpoint of seeing these people die over and over for 30 years.. and I would guess he only scalped Dolores (which is holy poo poo enough anyway).. I think he figured out that extreme emotional distress causes remembrance among hosts.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:29
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Caufman posted:Not only that, I wonder if he's smart enough to know that during the chaos of all of Ford's interrupting changes, he's going to have an even greater chance of finding exploits within the Park. I think its perfectly plausible to believe that there are time skips, flashbacks, and memories happening concurrently with the main timeline of the story without jumping into alternate timelines. I think the show runners are beginning to make the viewer question "when" some of the scenes are happening but I haven't felt that there is blatant misdirection yet. I'm not a fan of the two timeline theory but I do believe that the hosts are experiencing time differently than you or I would. Maeve's discovery of multiple drawings of the surgical suits confirms that she's had the same inspiration to draw the suits multiple times over multiple days, though she (and the viewer) is ignorant of this fact. For the hosts, its Groundhog Day without the awareness it is happening. Only Delores and Maeve appear to have a clue. What is difficult for me to gauge at this point is how long the hosts have been exhibiting odd behavior. When outside of the park itself (i.e. in the tech rooms, etc.), it seems that perhaps a few weeks have passed since Papa Abernathy started acting up however in the park, it would seem that Maeve, especially, has had many, many iterations occur. I'm also curious if the Man In Black has the same 4-week limit that all guests have, being an ultra-VIP. If his arrival in the first episode is in fact his first day, that would give us a reference as to how long the story has been in motion in addition to an upper limit of how long the narrative can go.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:50
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I like the side character guest bits: The husband who shoots the bad guy through the neck and has a blast doing it, and more so the brunette (possibly there by herself?) who is up for anything including a go with a hooker and a gunfight in the dark back to back with Teddy against scary bad dudes. It's all minor compared to the central characters moving the plot along but it's fun to see what guests do in the park.
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Oct 26, 2016 21:51
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