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Brendan Rodgers posted:You have no idea what AI is in this context is though I understand it can be difficult to see what's conceptually different between Skynet and the AI controlling a Mario enemy. you know by 'AI' i am referring to 'the computer player in Civ 6' and not actual artificial intelligence and no, the Civ 4 AI is still terrible once again, magic xylophone 'this is so easy to fix, a durr hurr'
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Oct 26, 2016 19:04
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How feature complete is this game compared to civ 5+expansions. Is it a step backward in any way?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:06
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Efexeye posted:you know by 'AI' i am referring to 'the computer player in Civ 6' and not actual artificial intelligence So there is something between "aw shucks it would take decades of research" and Civ 5, yes. Why is it acceptable to move backwards from Civ 4 while other 4x and grand strategy games have working diplomatic AI?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:06
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net cafe scandal posted:How feature complete is this game compared to civ 5+expansions. Is it a step backward in any way? No. Outside of maybe missing the concept of a "World Congress" it's not at all a step backwards. In fact, it is many steps forward in some respects and occasionally a half step back. But when it's all added up the game is an improvement on Civ V
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Oct 26, 2016 19:07
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Zigmidge posted:They denounced you for stupid poo poo in 4 as well and it weighed about as much there too. What?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:07
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net cafe scandal posted:How feature complete is this game compared to civ 5+expansions. Is it a step backward in any way? they got rid of the diplo condition but added a religious one they added the concept of districts- you can't just build all your buildings in a city any more, you need tiles the AI is arguably dumber but serviceable Brendan Rodgers posted:So there is something between "aw shucks it would take decades of research" and Civ 5, yes. Why is it acceptable to move backwards from Civ 4 while other 4x and grand strategy games have working diplomatic AI? I've never proposed like a neural net level of intelligence for AIs. I've said that when you have lots of complex systems interacting it's difficult to communicate what those systems are doing without sometimes appearing arbitrary.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:09
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My least favorite thing about the AI in civ vi is that I have trouble staying in everyone's good graces because the trading system is bad. Like I have no problems sending you extra amenities but you gotta give me something tangible for it not 1 gold per turn.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:09
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net cafe scandal posted:How feature complete is this game compared to civ 5+expansions. Is it a step backward in any way? The UI is a step backward. There are other annoying things like trade routes not autorefreshing and not showing their last destination. The spy UI is also annoying as poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:11
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Are we supposed to be picturing religious combat as martial-arts trained monks kicking the poo poo out of each other for the rights to proselytize on the outskirts of town?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:13
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This has probably been asked and answered, but does anyone have experience running this on a newish laptop? My wife is interested in having her own copy of the game, but I'm not sure if it would be an exercise in frustration to try and run it on her machine (Surface Pro 4, i5).
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Oct 26, 2016 19:14
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Brendan Rodgers posted:It's literally one if check on a IsJointWar bool field you put into the war class, you now have a differentiation between joint wars and non joint wars that can be checked when checking for a denounce. So, Skynet basically?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:16
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Efexeye posted:you know by 'AI' i am referring to 'the computer player in Civ 6' and not actual artificial intelligence AI means a computer can make decisions. It's not like AI in videogames is completely different from 'actual artificial intelligence.' Neuromarketers use AI to figure out what you're going to buy. Game makers use AI to provide an opponent within the simulation. They have cars that drive themselves on a real street and can navigate hundreds of miles and those have to use sensors to use what's going on. Like the weirdest thing for me is these non experts that are not qualified to tell you anything but how hard something is. At length. Over and over. Listen I don't do AI or work on AI but I just want to tell you it's really really hard. I don't understand anything about it, but it's hard. So don't talk about it lightly, because it's a hard thing to fix. It's not dude, lots of fields are complex, that doesn't mean there aren't problems and solutions just like everything else.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:17
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Efexeye posted:Are we supposed to be picturing religious combat as martial-arts trained monks kicking the poo poo out of each other for the rights to proselytize on the outskirts of town? I wasn't but now I'm going to think of the trailer for the new FF XIV expansion whenever I see it happen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAobb8_SzHY&t=68s
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Oct 26, 2016 19:19
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Efexeye posted:Are we supposed to be picturing religious combat as martial-arts trained monks kicking the poo poo out of each other for the rights to proselytize on the outskirts of town? It's how I'm picturing it.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:20
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Kibbles n Shits posted:So, Skynet basically? the technology just isn't there for it. can't be done.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:21
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Do the bonuses against "other religions" apply to civs that just have a pantheon and not a full religion yet?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:21
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Senerio posted:It's how I'm picturing it. They're clearly rap battling you guys
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Oct 26, 2016 19:21
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There's a lot of Civ VI source code experts floating around this thread. When it comes to problems in video games everyone is a code expert it seems.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:25
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I hope that when the modding tools release, everyone who says it's as simple as 1 if statement, will mod it, and then show their code to prove they did it with only 1 if statement. It's never, ever that simple.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:25
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Rakthar posted:It's not dude, lots of fields are complex, that doesn't mean there aren't problems and solutions just like everything else. my conclusion that it is hard is based on the relative lack of improvement in the last nearly three decades
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Oct 26, 2016 19:26
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And how does the japanesw ability work? Instead of +1 gold for being on a river, a trade district gets 2?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:27
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Brendan Rodgers posted:So there is something between "aw shucks it would take decades of research" and Civ 5, yes. Why is it acceptable to move backwards from Civ 4 while other 4x and grand strategy games have working diplomatic AI? I really miss permanent alliances. They were the only thing that made the end game of Civ4 fun, suddenly competing against the person in second and third place together. There is nothing that should make someone denounce you for doing what they ask. I could understand it if it was a sort of "plans on plans" thing but it never is. That said - I had Gorgo sneak through my territory specifically to attack the least defended city so they do have a little bit of forward planning at least.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:29
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Turtlicious posted:I hope that when the modding tools release, everyone who says it's as simple as 1 if statement, will mod it, and then show their code to prove they did it with only 1 if statement. They'll do it, and then unknowingly break 25 other things they weren't thinking about at all. "What do you mean that every leader is asking me to start joint wars with them every single turn? All I did was add an if/else block!"
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Oct 26, 2016 19:30
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Turtlicious posted:I hope that when the modding tools release, everyone who says it's as simple as 1 if statement, will mod it, and then show their code to prove they did it with only 1 if statement. It would be for the guy actually in charge of this, I'm not loving wading into their codebase I got better things to do with my spare time. None of this is because of their incompetence or inability to do this, it's because development time goes elsewhere and they know they can skimp on Civ AI, the expectations are just lower than every other 4X or grand strategy game and they'll get away with it.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:30
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Ice Fist posted:No. Outside of maybe missing the concept of a "World Congress" it's not at all a step backwards. In fact, it is many steps forward in some respects and occasionally a half step back. But when it's all added up the game is an improvement on Civ V drat I wish they had the world congress stuff still.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:30
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net cafe scandal posted:drat I wish they had the world congress stuff still. I hated the world congress personally and I hope that when it does come back it's far better than what was in Civ V BNW.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:31
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Brendan Rodgers posted:It's literally one if check on a IsJointWar bool field you put into the war class, you now have a differentiation between joint wars and non joint wars that can be checked when checking for a denounce. Brendan Rodgers posted:I'm not loving wading into their codebase I got better things to do with my spare time. lol
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Oct 26, 2016 19:33
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net cafe scandal posted:drat I wish they had the world congress stuff still.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:35
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IcePhoenix posted:My least favorite thing about the AI in civ vi is that I have trouble staying in everyone's good graces because the trading system is bad. Like I have no problems sending you extra amenities but you gotta give me something tangible for it not 1 gold per turn. I think the problem here is that they're just poor as gently caress. The AI def does give equitable deals if they have the resources.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:37
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Ersatz posted:Yeah - I really miss that too. Count me in as someone else who misses it. I actually really enjoyed it in BNW. Ice Fist posted:lol This isn't the "Checkmate  " you think it is.
Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 26, 2016 |
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Oct 26, 2016 19:37
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Ice Fist posted:lol There's a massive difference between one of their developers being told/allowed to do this, and me figuring out their codebase to do it, yes, I'm not familiar with their codebase and would have a hard time wading into it unless you paid me or I was really into modding this game or whatever. If you think one of their devs couldn't check for a joint war on a denounce without it breaking everything else, I don't even know what to say, how the hell did they code the rest of the game then?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:38
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I'd like to have someone declare a joint war against this thread with me, respond if youre interested
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Oct 26, 2016 19:38
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Control Volume posted:I'd like to have someone declare a joint war against this thread with me, respond if youre interested *denounces you*
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Oct 26, 2016 19:39
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Control Volume posted:I'd like to have someone declare a joint war against this thread with me, respond if youre interested Do I get to denounce you right after?
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Oct 26, 2016 19:41
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Dr. Carwash posted:I think the problem here is that they're just poor as gently caress. The AI def does give equitable deals if they have the resources. Well then they should stop being mad at me for turning their poor rear end down 
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Oct 26, 2016 19:40
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Ice Fist posted:lol Cool here's what an actual dev said when diplomatically pointing out that it's doable they just suck at it: quote:I think that with a concentrated effort Firaxis might just be able to make breakthroughs in the fields of: But yeah dude, the guy that actually works on videogames full time is clearly not qualified to point out that you can in fact set the breakpoint values better, or have gaps between AI response states - the thing is, it can't be done because it's hard. Even tracking which wars they started and which wars they didn't? Nah it's hard. Everything to do with AI is hard, so you may as well just not bother. Hard stuff. Phew.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:40
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Efexeye posted:Maybe getting rid of the Diplomacy win condition is a precursor towards getting rid of Diplomacy altogether It sounds like you haven't played Diplomacy, the winner-takes-all boardgame which involves a staggering degree of diplomacy
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Oct 26, 2016 19:41
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:It sounds like you haven't played Diplomacy, the winner-takes-all boardgame which involves a staggering degree of diplomacy pfft, less than a thousand chits? way too casual for me
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Oct 26, 2016 19:49
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The voting system in BTS was cool but it was also hilariously broken because of how easy it was to get city-states on your side.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:57
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Also, the Civ boardgame does have diplomacy. You can trade trade points/resources/I think culture cards and great persons as well. I don't remember if the rules explicitly mention non-binding promises, but a lot of similar boardgames do.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:58
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