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Solice Kirsk posted:Epic fantasy fills the same role as fast food. Its good and serves its purpose perfectly. Sure there arre waaaaay better meals out there, but sometimes a lovely burger and fries is exaclty what you want. Nothing wrong with that. Though, much like epic fantasy, the consumption of too much will result in having a hard time getting laid. CerealCrunch posted:Maybe the word count. Malpais Legate posted:This isn't really epic at all. It's the daily life of some gently caress and his student debt. Also he does some really boring rear end magic. Rothfuss is squarely in the mundane camp and his story shows it when broken down to a single sentence. The story has mystery and the unknown but it doesn't pay off the feel of those things because the rest of the story is so grounded as to make it seem like those things too will be explained in time. That's more the attitude of 50s sci-fi, an attitude that even that genre abandoned by the 70s for concepts like "the future will be as weird to us as the past is" (Dune, Book of the New Sun, much of Heinlein) or "space is impossibly large and impossibly old and we have absolutely no idea what we might find out there, or what might find us, or what we'll become once we're out there a while" (Rendezvous With Rama, Niven, Banks, etc.). There are elements in Kingkiller that could have been set up as a contrast to this, but thematically they just don't get hammered home hard enough to suggest that Kvothe's obsession with his student loans is a stupid, mundane, and ultimately irrelevant (but possibly meaningfully formative) concern in the face of the greater mysteries of the world that are the things that build legends. Instead, he has sex real good and continues to barely care about the thing that's supposedly his main motivation.
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Oct 27, 2016 21:38
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Rothfuss's lack of command over made up language matters. Just because someone is uneducated on a subject does not mean that he won't realize the product is poo poo. Rothfuss's made up words are just like everything else he writes - an artificial Christmas tree that is hollow and not even close to a passable imitation of the real thing. Tolkien stands out even to the uneducated layman because of his mastery of words, the amount of hard work he put to the craft, and his natural talent. None of these are qualities Rothfuss possesses. And it shows.
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Oct 27, 2016 21:40
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Malazan is rad. Epic fantasy can be rad. Gormenghast, Chronicles of Amber, Song of Ice and Fire, Black Company, Book of the New Sun, Earthsea, First Law Trilogy- all rad. It's just when you try to classify your epic fantasy as literature that you open it up to criticism that otherwise might not be levied at it.
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Oct 27, 2016 21:50
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Benson Cunningham posted:Epic fantasy can be rad. Gormenghast  Benson Cunningham posted:First Law Trilogy Slightly rad, I guess.
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Oct 27, 2016 21:56
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Benson Cunningham posted:Malazan is rad. Epic fantasy can be rad. Gormenghast, Chronicles of Amber, Song of Ice and Fire, Black Company, Book of the New Sun, Earthsea, First Law Trilogy- all rad. I agree 100% with this. Generally, epic fantasy is brain candy. I would consume it in the same way that I play video games or watch movies or, to belabour the metaphor, eat junk food.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:06
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Epic fantasies are stories for children and hold no emotional truths. Instead they hold real, physical truths. Facts about great and terrible events of the distant past that have faded from our conscious collective memory, and detailed instructions on how to survive the once and future horrors. Though most now dismiss them as meaningless fairy-tales, when you hear the whispers in the darkness beyond your door you will already know what to do, you will understand that everything you have seen and heard up until now has been preparing you for this moment, you will realize that the chandrian are real, the chandrian are alive, the chandrian are not your friend.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:15
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Nakar posted:I think one point BOTL is making here is that this is kind of the problem with a lot of modern fantasy: It apes in a fashion the epic style, the fantastical wonderment, the fear of the unknown, but is at best completely incompetent at handling any of them and is at worst so distressingly fixated on the mundane that it's hard to understand why the author wrote a fantasy at all. This is pretty much why I entirely switched over to "Weird fiction" for my preferred genre. At the very least, it tries to evoke the impossible and the numinous without trying to bludgeon it to death with a spreadsheet. Lottery of Babylon posted:Epic fantasies are stories for children and hold no emotional truths. I'm going to gently caress the Chandrian.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:15
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Hate Fibration posted:I'm going to gently caress the Chandrian. This post is actually a corruption of the original ur-post, lost to the ages but carried to the present through nursery rhymes and loss edits, hidden in plain sight for the true seekers to find it. The original post read "The chandrian came, I'm hosed"
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Oct 27, 2016 22:20
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:And Bast's homoerotic obsession with Kvothe wasn't brought up in LGBT talk! You are all Realtalk if he made this unambiguously canon I'd take back at least 30% of the bad things I've ever said about Rothfuss.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:29
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Gormenghast qualifies as epic fantasy. If you're saying its not rad, then I'm sorry but this tinder date is over- we have no future together. Edit: Also if Kvothe fucks the Chandrian to death and the whole second book was actually sex training he predicted he'd need, the series would be 100% redeemed for me.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:35
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I'm getting nervous because I have yet to encounter a sex scene in book 2 but you're making this sound like a horror show.
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Oct 27, 2016 22:52
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Malpais Legate posted:I'm getting nervous because I have yet to encounter a sex scene in book 2 but you're making this sound like a horror show. What part are you at?
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Oct 27, 2016 22:54
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They're playing with each other's dicks in the middle of the woods and pretending to find bandits for the Maer. This makes me realize Maer/Mayor is a stupid thing and also maybe this is the sex scenes you're talking about. They are just loving about for pages upon pages.
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Oct 27, 2016 23:00
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Malpais Legate posted:They're playing with each other's dicks in the middle of the woods and pretending to find bandits for the Maer. Oh you sweet summer child.
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Oct 27, 2016 23:53
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Malpais Legate posted:They're playing with each other's dicks in the middle of the woods and pretending to find bandits for the Maer. You are about 30 pages away from Kvothe becoming a man(child).
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Oct 27, 2016 23:57
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I read the Gurm's Myrish swamp and sticky princes. I can handle this. I can handle this, right? 
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Oct 28, 2016 01:29
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Malpais Legate posted:I read the Gurm's Myrish swamp and sticky princes. I can handle this. If you need a place to heal afterwards, we're here for you.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:37
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Malpais Legate posted:I read the Gurm's Myrish swamp and sticky princes. I can handle this. It's vaseline-on-the-lens softcore protagonist praising literotica. Its biggest problem lies in existing in the published work, not with its particular content.
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Oct 28, 2016 01:38
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Epic fantasies are stories for children and hold no emotional truths. But when the Chandrian enter my house, they'll be all "man, is that a TAK board! Cooooool! I love Patrick Rothfuss!" And I'll be all "Yeah, man, it's a Tak board!" And they'll give me my pizza and leave.
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Oct 28, 2016 02:35
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Malpais Legate posted:I read the Gurm's Myrish swamp and sticky princes. I can handle this. The sex scenes are written like jotting down Street Fighter 2 combos. Nothing graphic or arousing about them at all. You'll be fine, but probably feel a little embarrassed that you're still reading. Oh, and his fight training is written exactly the same way with even more video game sex scenes. It's basically video game sex scenes from here on out.
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Oct 28, 2016 03:18
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HIJK posted:Rothfuss's lack of command over made up language matters. Just because someone is uneducated on a subject does not mean that he won't realize the product is poo poo. Rothfuss's made up words are just like everything else he writes - an artificial Christmas tree that is hollow and not even close to a passable imitation of the real thing. It's because it's literally some poo poo he made up for D&D and if you have played a game of it with a lame DM you will recognize the smell at once
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Oct 28, 2016 03:53
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:It's because it's literally some poo poo he made up for D&D and if you have played a game of it with a lame DM you will recognize the smell at once Counterpoint: Malazan?
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Oct 28, 2016 07:21
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Benson Cunningham posted:Counterpoint: Malazan? Malayan is based on a GURPS campaign, totally different Edit: Oh gently caress, I'm wrong. It started as AD&D Andrast fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 07:34
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Oh my loving god he loses his virginity to a fairy queen. What the gently caress is this bullshit?
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Oct 28, 2016 18:07
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh my loving god he loses his virginity to a fairy queen. What the gently caress is this bullshit? And he's really good at it! One of the best the immortal sex fairy has ever seen.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:11
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh my loving god he loses his virginity to a fairy queen. What the gently caress is this bullshit? Welcome, friend. To our kingdom of poo poo.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:12
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I realize now that I only saw the Kingdom of poo poo from a distance, just an idea on the horizon. Today I gazed upon the gates, and smelled the stench. Against my better judgment, I requested entry.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:43
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Malpais Legate posted:I realize now that I only saw the Kingdom of poo poo from a distance, just an idea on the horizon. We have such sites to show you! Just wait until he changes a person's entire world view by playing his lute. This is, of course, his ninja teacher who he sexes up real good. Of course.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:47
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Benson Cunningham posted:Counterpoint: Malazan? I couldn't get more than a few dozen pages in to the first book before I put it down and good lord the "this is my PnP campaign turned novel" was overwhelming.
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Oct 28, 2016 22:37
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Benson Cunningham posted:Gormenghast qualifies as epic fantasy. If you're saying its not rad, then I'm sorry but this tinder date is over- we have no future together. Not to start an argument or anything but how is Gormenghast epic fantasy? I can't remember anything that jumps out as really Epic Fantasy-ish other than the massiveness of Gormenghast itself. Steerpike did nothing wrong
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Oct 28, 2016 22:44
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Malpais Legate posted:I realize now that I only saw the Kingdom of poo poo from a distance, just an idea on the horizon. Have you considered journeying to the kingdom of Prester John instead and reading Baudolino? It does everything that Kingkiller does better, even sex with a weird creature of myth.
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Oct 28, 2016 22:49
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Vanderdeath posted:Not to start an argument or anything but how is Gormenghast epic fantasy? I can't remember anything that jumps out as really Epic Fantasy-ish other than the massiveness of Gormenghast itself.
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Oct 28, 2016 23:22
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Vanderdeath posted:Not to start an argument or anything but how is Gormenghast epic fantasy? I can't remember anything that jumps out as really Epic Fantasy-ish other than the massiveness of Gormenghast itself. Not to stir the pot, but what definition of epic fantasy are we going with? I feel like we might have a number of different answers to the question, which influences any discussion we might have about what IS or ISNT epic fantasy.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Have you considered journeying to the kingdom of Prester John instead and reading Baudolino? It does everything that Kingkiller does better, even sex with a weird creature of myth. How gay is it, on a scale of bear hunting to hunting bears? Also, I got to the infamous chord that said sad. I audibly guffawed.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:53
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Malpais Legate posted:How gay is it, on a scale of bear hunting to hunting bears? Fleeting glimpse of bear pelt. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 10:09
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Fleeting glimpse of bear pelt. So you're saying it's bearly gay?!?!?! ......I'll show myself out.
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Oct 29, 2016 14:04
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Benson Cunningham posted:Not to stir the pot, but what definition of epic fantasy are we going with? I feel like we might have a number of different answers to the question, which influences any discussion we might have about what IS or ISNT epic fantasy. Yeah, uh, I feel like you might be getting kind of loose with your genre definitions if you're calling Earthsea epic fantasy...
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Oct 30, 2016 23:20
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idiotsavant posted:Yeah, uh, I feel like you might be getting kind of loose with your genre definitions if you're calling Earthsea epic fantasy... That's because it's fairly loosely defined. As an example, a quote from the wiki entry on Earthsea quote:Several critics have argued that by combining elements of epic, Bildungsroman, and young adult fiction, Le Guin succeeded in blurring the boundaries of conventional genres
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Oct 31, 2016 00:06
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So he goes to gaiety fairy land, fucks a fairy queen until he's a master of sex, and then goes back to gently caress a bar wench. At least the Cathay or however you spell it was cool. The reader used a voice that reminded me of the Cheshire cat. It was easily the best part of the novel, until the lovely little crybaby interlude about it.
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Oct 31, 2016 00:19
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Earthsea is both epic and fantasy but the specific term 'epic fantasy' comes loaded with Malazan-level baggage
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Oct 31, 2016 00:19
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