a victory for liberty over tyranny

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afeelgoodpoop: Oct 14, 2014; by FactsAreUseless

Casimir Radon posted:

Yes there was. But you get away with calling it art when you're rich.

you can buy anything he had off amazon right now.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:25

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# ? May 25, 2024 22:11

Prokhor Zakharov: Dec 31, 2008; This is me as I make another great post

Good luck with your depression!

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/10/oregon_standoff_defense_lawyer.html#incart_maj-story-1

quote:

Defense attorneys who worked with defendants in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation trial said Thursday's victory for the defendants should send a sobering message to the federal government.

Change your strategy.

Listen to rural Americans.

And stop trying to make them out to be violent zealots and bully them with the heavy hand of the law.

"I think that (the government) may learn from this -- that ignoring a protest movement isn't effective," said Lisa Ludwig, who served as standby counsel for defendant Ryan Bundy. "Like just attributing a lot of violence to them and dismissing them doesn't stop it and doesn't work."

"Maybe this is a lesson that that's not the way to engage with these people, who want nothing more than just to be heard, just to have a forum to talk about the injustices like the case of the Hammonds and the treatment of ranchers," Ludwig said.

Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond are a father and son who were convicted of lighting public land on fire next to their Harney County ranch lands. They were twice sentenced to prison time, after appellate judges determined they weren't properly sentenced the first time.

Defense attorney Tiffany Harris, who was a standby lawyer for Shawna Cox, said the defendants had important messages to be heard, such as their concerns about threats to their way of life.

"I hope the government listens," Harris said. "I hope everyone listens."

During trial, federal prosecutors contended that the occupiers weren't just peaceful protesters: They trashed refuge offices, used government computers as their own, disturbed Native American sacred sites by using heavy equipment to dig latrines for their human waste and trained with hand-to-hand combat and firing squads. Authorities recovered more than 1,000 shell casings from the site, as well as a load of firearms.

Although the defendants were well-armed, the takeover of the refuge wasn't about violence, said Matt Schindler, who was standby counsel for defendant Kenneth Medenbach.

"Guns in a culture outside the city of Portland, it means something very different," said Medenbach. "For these defendants and for these people having a firearm has nothing to do with a threat or anything else. It's as much a statement of their rural culture as a cowboy hat or a pair of jeans."

"If they just stood out there with signs no one would have cared," Schindler continued. "But by going onto a piece of federal land and exercising their First Amendment rights and their Second Amendment rights, contemporaneously they had the power to be heard. People from all over the world came and heard them and listened to them."

Thursday afternoon, as the occupiers' supporters rushed out of the federal courthouse and breathlessly waved their arms in the air and hugged each other, it became clear that the verdict also might embolden protesters.

"I think it's good for everybody's right to protest -- from hanging off of a bridge to sitting in a tree to occupying a park in Portland to occupying a refuge," said Ludwig, the defense attorney. "It's an affirmation of every citizen's right to use civil disobedience to make their voice heard when they feel like nothing else is working."

But Schindler, the defense attorney, said anyone who protests in a similar fashion to the refuge occupiers should be prepared to be arrested, spend time in jail and possibly be convicted of a crime.

"If your idea of civil disobedience is breaking the law, then you have to be prepared there are consequences for that," Schindler said.

Schnidler said his client, Medenbach was unlike many other clients who, upon arrest, immediately want to get out of jail.

"I think one of the extraordinary things about Ken Medenbach was that ...he sat in county jail for six months when he could have pled guilty and walked out the door of the jail," Schindler said. "'If I have to sit in jail for two years' -- he said to me -- 'I'm willing to do that.'"

lmao they're already planning their next "protest" on twitter btw

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:25

red19fire: May 26, 2010

I get that the conspiracy was hard to prove. But come on, theft of government property? The loving jury fell for the 'i was going to return it with a full tank of gas, honest' defense.

If nothing else, this will embolden them, and they'll get firebombed for their next scheme.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:25

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

gently caress it it, they want zero taxes, and zero gov, let them have it.

Let's get Dust Bowl 2 ready.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:30

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

TotalLossBrain posted:

Not the outcome we needed, but certainly the one America deserved.

Fiore is already bragging about it, too.

Not bragging so much as literally encouraging terrorism:

AN ACTUAL ELECTED GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL posted:

The verdict shows that Americans need to stand up to unlawful behavior by federal employees.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:30

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

zeal posted:

isn't living in a decaying empire awesome

Dark Ages Deux are going to be hilarious. Nothing but LARPers as far as the eye can see.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:33

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Joke's on all of us. Trashed refuge, not-guilty verdict, and public defenders - pay up, motherfuckers.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:33

1994 Toyota Celica: Sep 11, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

Peztopiary posted:

Dark Ages Deux are going to be hilarious. Nothing but LARPers as far as the eye can see.

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:35

Prokhor Zakharov: Dec 31, 2008; This is me as I make another great post

Good luck with your depression!

red19fire posted:

I get that the conspiracy was hard to prove.

conspiracy is the 'prosecutor's darling' because it's so easy to prove, all blame for this rests entirely on jury selection

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:38

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

NPR had a story before the verdict from the native american tribe that had all their poo poo desecrated about how they really didn't want to make it about them being victims even though it was awful but how a bunch of tribes offered help and maybe a movement might come out of it now that there is a viscerally clear example of white men making GBS threads on sacred sites.

whelp.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:38

Four Score: Feb 27, 2014; by zen death robot; Lipstick Apathy

this certainly proves a thing: Americans deserve each other

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:39

1994 Toyota Celica: Sep 11, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

welcome, friends, to the shape of the nightmare to come

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVekJTmtwqM

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:41

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

I've had an emergency plan to move to New Zealand if America ever goes super-bad that I've never seriously considered but I am legitimately investigating it now. Between this and Trump I don't think I have ever been more collectively disappointed in the American people in my entire life.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:42

Bert Roberge: Nov 28, 2003

Glad to see that terrorism is legal in the US if you're white, again.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:44

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

zeal posted:

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Everyone is immortal, and forced to cosplay constantly as medieval serfs. The nobility are all the current one percent, and pretend to have magic powers. It's all ruthlessly enforced by a mad God-Computer.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:44

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

ate all the Oreos posted:

NPR had a story before the verdict from the native american tribe that had all their poo poo desecrated about how they really didn't want to make it about them being victims even though it was awful but how a bunch of tribes offered help and maybe a movement might come out of it now that there is a viscerally clear example of white men making GBS threads on sacred sites.

whelp.

Remember the last time Native Americans tried occupying Federal property?

Yeah, about that�

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:44

Shame Boy: Mar 2, 2010

Peztopiary posted:

Everyone is immortal, and forced to cosplay constantly as medieval serfs. The nobility are all the current one percent, and pretend to have magic powers. It's all ruthlessly enforced by a mad God-Computer.

Wait this isn't the dark enlightenment mock thread

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:45

Shinjobi: Jul 10, 2008; Gravy Boat 2k

Casimir Radon posted:

Yes there was. But you get away with calling it art when you're rich.

when you don't even read the article you link to, god drat

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:44

Peztopiary: Mar 16, 2009; by exmarx

ate all the Oreos posted:

Wait this isn't the dark enlightenment mock thread

I've got bad news friend.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:48

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Platystemon posted:

Remember the last time Native Americans tried occupying Federal property?

Yeah, about that…

They can just bring a civil suit against Ammon and Friends and bleed them dry.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:53

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

ate all the Oreos posted:

Not bragging so much as literally encouraging terrorism:

I legit hope that person dies in a fire.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:55

OMG JC a Bomb!: Jul 13, 2004; We are the Invisible Spatula. We are the Grilluminati. We eat before and after dinner. We eat forever. And eventually... eventually we will lead them into the dining room.

gently caress yeah, I'm going to go pitch a tent and take a dump in the DMV lobby.

Edit: maybe the tent part was a euphamism, and maybe it wasn't

OMG JC a Bomb! has issued a correction as of 06:04 on Oct 28, 2016

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:56

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

what the gently caress

# ? Oct 28, 2016 05:59

Geoj: May 28, 2008; BITTER POOR PERSON

Casimir Radon posted:

They can just bring a civil suit against Ammon and Friends and bleed them dry.

even if they win a judgment against them how do you propose they collect on it?

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:01

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

If we get another occupation soon that's just more entertainment.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:02

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Geoj posted:

even if they win a judgment against them how do you propose they collect on it?

Surrender of property. It doesn't matter if they can get the full amount out of them, taking their nice things away is the goal. On top of that the Bundys are going to be feeling pretty indestructible right now so they might not even show up to court and get themselves some nice contempt charges.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:03

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Casimir Radon posted:

Surrender of property. It doesn't matter if they can get the full amount out of them, taking their nice things away is the goal. On top of that the Bundys are going to be feeling pretty indestructible right now so they might not even show up to court and get themselves some nice contempt charges.

Last time someone tried to take their cows to satisfy a debt, it went great.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:06

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

nm posted:

Last time someone tried to take their cows to satisfy a debt, it went great.

Just another oppurtunity for them to dig themselves a deeper hole. This time they'd be loving with a tribe they attempted to make weak platitudes towards while putting their dirty dick paws all over their artifacts.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:08

Geoj: May 28, 2008; BITTER POOR PERSON

Casimir Radon posted:

Surrender of property.

This works until the Bundys put out a call that the jackbooted thugs are coming to unconstitutionally seize their property and we end up with Bunkerville II.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:11

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Hit their cows with drone strikes.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:12

Gum: Mar 9, 2008; _{oho, a rapist

time to try this puppy out}

Casimir Radon posted:

Just another oppurtunity for them to dig themselves a deeper hole. This time they'd be loving with a tribe they attempted to make weak platitudes towards while putting their dirty dick paws all over their artifacts.

How fukkin deep does this hole need to get

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:12

TotalLossBrain: Oct 20, 2010; Hier graben!

Gum posted:

How fukkin deep does this hole need to get

Does it really matter when there's a jury-shaped wormhole at the bottom of the hole?

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:14

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

Gum posted:

How fukkin deep does this hole need to get

Until they burn up at the earth's core and get their own planets to gently caress up.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:15

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Scary thought: Nevada probably has a worse jury pool than Oregon.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:16

Geoj: May 28, 2008; BITTER POOR PERSON

nm posted:

Scary thought: Nevada probably has a worse jury pool than Oregon.

Was just about to post this - after this verdict they're all but untouchable, and if the Nevada trial ends poorly for the government they're going to have a blank check to do whatever they want for the rest of time.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:17

OMG JC a Bomb!: Jul 13, 2004; We are the Invisible Spatula. We are the Grilluminati. We eat before and after dinner. We eat forever. And eventually... eventually we will lead them into the dining room.

Man reading into this case it's loving crazy how many informants the government had embedded in their ranks.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:19

Gum: Mar 9, 2008; _{oho, a rapist

time to try this puppy out}

Casimir Radon posted:

Until they burn up at the earth's core and get their own planets to gently caress up.

You mean until they find out magma doesn't hurt them, break through to China and idk get a Nobel prize for it

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:19

BlackIronHeart: Aug 2, 2004; PROCEED

Geoj posted:

Was just about to post this - after this verdict they're all but untouchable, and if the Nevada trial ends poorly for the government they're going to have a blank check to do whatever they want for the rest of time.

How's that work? Double jeopardy means they can't be tried for this slew of BS but if I get acquitted of murdering Joe, I'm not somehow immune to prosecution for murdering Jack.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:21

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

BlackIronHeart posted:

How's that work? Double jeopardy means they can't be tried for this slew of BS but if I get acquitted of murdering Joe, I'm not somehow immune to prosecution for murdering Jack.

They might try the same defense. We're just innocent ranchers, city folks don't understand, look at mah hat.

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:23

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# ? May 25, 2024 22:11

Metrofreak: Mar 17, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Well, they've proven the system works.

"Jury of one's peers" you can't read it any more loving literal than that. I need to find a drink. :negative:

# ? Oct 28, 2016 06:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > a victory for liberty over tyranny

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