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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
This is an example of the sort of mental gymnastics people will go through to justify what the President is doing. I promise I won't turn this thread into the Political Forwards thread, Philippine edition:






["Sa mga naka-ahon na sa kahirapan" = "For those who have already managed to escape the clutches of poverty"]

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Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos

What does that say?

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

This is an example of the sort of mental gymnastics people will go through to justify what the President is doing. I promise I won't turn this thread into the Political Forwards thread, Philippine edition:

It reminds me of pro-Trump internet comments, but with some bizarre national inferiority complex tacked on (in the "guy trying to talk big because he thinks everyone else is looking down on him" sense).

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
It's really bizarre then that he apparently thinks that the US looks down on him and China doesn't.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/828811/pnp-distributes-obama-masks-for-halloween lol

drilldo squirt
Aug 18, 2006

a beautiful, soft meat sack
Clapping Larry

Fojar38 posted:

It's really bizarre then that he apparently thinks that the US looks down on him and China doesn't.

China is sucking up to him like something crazy.

chird
Sep 26, 2004

Prism posted:

What does that say?

My Cebuano is rubbish but I think it's "Just as I thought, a lot of Aquino lovers instantly believed Duterte's statements in China to be real. Chill out lefties, you're always panicking!'

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

drilldo squirt posted:

China is sucking up to him like something crazy.

A more cynical person might even believe that he was a Manchurian Candidate, specifically designed to get the Philippines to abandon their claims to the SCS as China predicted that they were going to lose the UNCLOS ruling.

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.


A lot of you might find some interest in Prester Jane's thread on Authoritarians/Narrativists. It might have been recommended already but she does a good job explaining how and why the far right thinks and acts the way it does. It's on the longer side, and pretty wordy at times, but it's really good. I don't know if that thread's been introduced to this one yet.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos

Truly, his aura of Protection from Weather, 150 Mile Radius is the real reason to elect him President.

Brannock
Feb 9, 2006

by exmarx
Fallen Rib
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/24/philippines-senator-calls-for-duterte-to-face-crimes-against-humanity-inquiry

quote:

A leading member of the Philippines’ senate has called for an international criminal investigation into the country’s president in an effort to stop a vicious war on drugs that has killed more than 3,800 people since June.

Senator Leila de Lima, a human rights advocate and former justice secretary, has told the Guardian that foreign intervention was the only hope of putting an end to “state-inspired” extrajudicial murders that have terrorised parts of the population since president Rodrigo Duterte came to power four months ago.

In an interview De Lima urged world leaders to consider sanctions and the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague to launch an investigation into Duterte and those who worked for him.

“It [ICC] should start to think about investigating already or doing an inquiry into the killings as crimes against humanity,” she said.

The senator fears for her own life after she was ousted last month as chair of an inquiry looking into the vigilante death squads targeting drug dealers and users, and her address and mobile number were made public.

“For a few weeks after that I was unable to go home, I slept in other places although I was able to sneak into my house from time to time, so I felt like a thief in the night in my own home,” she said.

“The more unfortunate thing is that ever since they publicised my cellphone number I did receive a lot, almost 2,000, of hate messages and death threats.”

De Lima has become the nemesis of Duterte, who swept to power in May on a mandate to enforce zero tolerance on drugs-related crime. He denies any links to extrajudicial murder, but critics say his inflammatory rhetoric has unleashed a wave of violence.

[...]

chird
Sep 26, 2004

Gradenko, have you received any backlash from your recent super-sleuthing? I don't want to see you appearing on one of Duterte's hastily-prepared 'suspect' lists.

(Gradenko wrote an excellent post that went viral and is now blowing up as one of the top stories on the Inquirer. I personally send the post to Rappler yesterday, but afaik they didn't run with it yet.)

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

chird posted:

Gradenko, have you received any backlash from your recent super-sleuthing? I don't want to see you appearing on one of Duterte's hastily-prepared 'suspect' lists.

(Gradenko wrote an excellent post that went viral and is now blowing up as one of the top stories on the Inquirer. I personally send the post to Rappler yesterday, but afaik they didn't run with it yet.)

Not at all, actually. It's funny because when I posted it on facebook, one of my friends left this comment:



But no one bit.

chird
Sep 26, 2004

You're doing the Lord's work.

Hard for them to put a positive spin on it. The fact the company was apparently responsible for the Spratly Islands reclamation is a real kick in the balls for nationalists.

I kinda wondered whether those pro-DDS groups and fake news sites like News Trend Ph were run by the Chinese government or at least the Duterte camp funded by Chinese. They seemed to appear from nowhere and the English is poor. The Chinese government's got a pretty solid history of paying for social media posts to change public opinion. In the Philippines, there's the added advantage that a high percentage of users have free access to Facebook but no access to the wider internet. This means they're stuck in their social media echo chamber, unable to do their own research on whether posts are true or false. Facebook then continues to show them more and more of similar content. I believe this is a big reason Duterte got support and ultimately won.

For the record I think free Facebook is great, but it really needs to be free internet.

In other news, I like that Comelec is investigating whether Imee Marcos funded Duterte (as he said in a speech) and that they didn't declare it. Normally this is grounds for disqualification.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

You guys don't know that it's the same gradenko_2000 it could be a different one.

Also I apologize for coming across as cynical, but I will eat my delicious hat made of toast and peanut butter if anything sticks to Imee, jr, Imelda, etc. while Duterte is in office. And probably afterward too, unless it's because the Purge suddenly becomes real.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

chird posted:

I kinda wondered whether those pro-DDS groups and fake news sites like News Trend Ph were run by the Chinese government or at least the Duterte camp funded by Chinese. They seemed to appear from nowhere and the English is poor. The Chinese government's got a pretty solid history of paying for social media posts to change public opinion. In the Philippines, there's the added advantage that a high percentage of users have free access to Facebook but no access to the wider internet. This means they're stuck in their social media echo chamber, unable to do their own research on whether posts are true or false. Facebook then continues to show them more and more of similar content. I believe this is a big reason Duterte got support and ultimately won.

I don't know about the Chinese government, but interviews with the Duterte campaign did reveal that they had a sizable cash kitty of about 10 million pesos and a team dedicated to social media affairs.

They have plausible deniability as far as supposedly only being a clearinghouse or coordination center for volunteers, and lord knows there's enough assholes out there to fabricate fake news without needing to be paid for it, but I have no doubt that Duterte's social media revolution was astroturfed, at least going up as high as the campaign itself.

Tarantula
Nov 4, 2009

No go ahead stand in the fire, the healer will love the shit out of you.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/10/duterte-warns-defence-pact-japan-visit-161025141718165.html
So how much aid would the Philippines stand to lose if aid was cut off?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Okay, I just spent the last hour or so typing up this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/59mbk6/question_regarding_bcda_press_release_on/d99psa2/

TL;DR:
1. The Inquirer breaks a story about the involvement of allegedly corrupt Chinese construction firms in Philippine infrastructure projects.
2. Two Duterte-supporting pages post about how Inquirer is wrong because according to a statement from the Philippine authority involved, the deals are just Memoranda of Agreement, and that no contract has been signed yet
3. As far as I can determine, these two pages quoted a statement that had not yet been posted at the time.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

My gut is telling me I'm sounding like a conspiracy theorist, that I'm buying too much into my own hype, that this is "reddit finds Boston Bomber" syndrome, but unless I'm completely misreading how to use these time stamps, this just doesn't make any goddamn sense.

Please tell me I'm not nuts.

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
Aren't Memos of Agreement and Memos of Understanding equivalent to saying they plan on signing the contracts as soon as the relevant situation applies and/or ASAP? But for now these are the general details they're agreeing to?

I mean, yeah, it's not a contract. But in the contexts I've heard of they're good faith promises to follow through on whatever's agreed to ahead of time.

Edit: Is it possible they got paper copies before they were posted online?

Also, I shouldn't be pissed off that Duterte blames the US for everything the Philippines suffered under Japanese occupation. But I am.

Edit 2: I need to proof before posting.

RandomPauI fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Oct 27, 2016

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

RandomPauI posted:

Aren't MOA;s and Memos of Understanding equivalent to saying they plan on signing the contracts as soon as the relevant situation applies and/or ASAP? But for now these are the general details they're agreeing to?

I mean, yeah, it's not a contract. But in the contexts I've heard of they're good faith promises to follow through on whatever's agreed to ahead of time.

You're correct, but the spin is that technically MOUs aren't legally binding, so technically the Chinese firms are still up for review and technically the Philippine authorities can still back out.

Which means technically the Inquirer is wrong when they claimed that the deals were "in the bag"

chird
Sep 26, 2004

gradenko_2000 posted:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

I don't think there's anything there. I would say the BCDA probably first posted it as a note here then deleted it for a typo or something, then created the new note. I got that link from one of the comments here.

BCDA later said "FYI. BCDA assures the public that any company deemed banned or unqualified will not be allowed to participate in the Philippine government's bidding process. BCDA will uphold the rule of law, the most rigorous, stringent, transparent procurement rules once in the implementation stage of #bigticket infrastructure projects. The reported WB debarment of Chinese firms do not bar them from conducting an FS at their own expense and at no cost to the Philippine government."

You'll let them spend millions on a feasibility study at their own expense but won't allow them to bid on the project in the end? What kind of crazy company would do that (unless they're planning on dredging themselves up a few more islands closer to shore :P)

Its sadder in a way that Doots was willing to bend over so much purely for memos. They return from China with a "24 billion investments secured" headline, but in the end it seems he's got nothing but pinky promises to invest. For which, he's drastically set back the Philippines' previously excellent position on the West Philippine Sea issue while burning bridges with America. Worst diplomatic trip ever.

chird
Sep 26, 2004

Here's something you might find interesting.

TLDR: The Cebu port project given to Mega Harbour Port & CCCC Dredging during his trip in China was already inked by the town mayor, back in September 29th. This was just one day after a long-existing and well-known port proposal in the exact same location, to be financed by Korea, was finally approved by NEDA. The Cebu Port Authority had no idea about the Mega Harbour deal and vow to fight it. Mayor now getting asked wtf.

Let's focus on the planned port to be built in Cebu by Mega Harbour Port and possibly the banned CCCC Dredging Company, as announced by Duterte in his list. It's actually a planned second port in Consolacion, Cebu to decongest the existing port.

Now, this port has already been in planning by the Cebu Port Authority for years, had various feasibility studies, was approved by various bodies and was just about to go ahead. It's pretty well known tbh:

September 17th, 2016 - P9.13B port project will be Cebu’s big one this year

quote:

"If President Rodrigo Duterte would approve it by the end of the year, work on a big-time infrastructure project in Cebu would start on the later part of next year." Efren Carreon, regional director of the National Economic Development Authority in Central Visayas (Neda-7), was referring to the proposed P9.13 billion Cebu International Port in Barangay Tayud, Consolacion town in northern Cebu. Carreon said that the feasibility study for the project was already approved by Neda’s Investment Coordinating Committee (ICC) technical board last Sept. 1. “The next process will be evaluation and approval by the ICC Cabinet Committee on Sept. 28. Final approval will be by the Neda Board, which is [now] chaired by president Duterte,” he told Cebu Daily News.

September 28th - the proposed P9.13-billion port project in Barangay Tayud was approved by the National Economic and Development Authority Investment Coordination Council-Cabinet Committee (Neda ICC-CabComm), according to The Inquirer.

Then, but one day later, September 29th 2016, something weird happens. The Mayor of Consolacion, unbeknowst to the Cebu Port Authority, instead enters in a joint venture with one Mega Harbour Port and Development, Inc. for a P16.5-billion port in the very same location. (It's also worth noting that's almost double the Cebu Port Authority's proposal, a figure CPA got from multiple feasibility studies from Korea and Japan.) This throws the CPA for six, as they apparently had no idea about this deal:

September 30th, 2016 - CPA to Push Through with its Port Project Despite JV Deal

quote:

The Consolacion municipal government, headed by Mayor Teresa Alegado, on Thursday September 29th entered into a joint venture (JV) agreement with Mega Harbour Port and Development, Inc. for the construction of a P16.5-billion international container port project in the town.

Cebu Port Authority General Manager Edmund Tan said...the Cebu Port Authority (CPA) will pursue its proposed international container port project in Consolacion town even after the municipal government signed an agreement with a private developer to build a similar facility in the area.

Tan said that Mega Harbour had already came to the CPA to discuss plans for the proposed port, but since then president Benigno Aquino III did not like the idea of unsolicited proposals, the CPA turned down their proposal.

October 3rd, 2016

quote:

The Investment Coordination Committee-Cabinet Committee (ICC-Cabcom) approved last Sept. 29 the Cebu Port Authority’s (CPA) project in Tayud, Consolacion.

The approval came a day before Consolacion Mayor Teresa Alegado signed a joint venture agreement (JVA) with Mega Harbour Port and Development Inc. represented by its president, Victor S. Tongco, to construct a similar project in the same site.

The ICC-Cabcom chaired by Socioeconomic Planning Secretary Ernesto Pernia has submitted the approved CPA port project for final approval by the National Economic Development Authority (Neda) Board chaired by President Rodrigo Duterte.

It will cost P9.2 billion, which will be sourced through official development assistance as recommended by the Korean International Cooperation Agency (Koica).

“We did not know anything about the joint venture signing as reported by the media. We were not informed nor consulted by the parties concerned,” said CPA General Manager Edmund Tan.

Tan added that Mayor Alegado has no authority to construct a port because that mandate belongs to CPA under Republic Act 7621 or the CPA Charter. Tan stressed, however, that the CPA will have the final say “on all port operations and projects” in Cebu Province “as mandated by law.” “Our stand is just to let them be, if that is what they want. I will not stop them from having that joint venture agreement,” Tan said. “I just hope that they will eventually understand and realize that they are just wasting their time and effort on that venture,” he also said. “We are already in our final stretch in our efforts to have this new international port project come to reality and then, they come in to put up their own port on the same site? Is that fair?” Tan asked.

Then Duterte went to China, and came back with the list of infrastructure deals, including the Cebu Mega Harbour Port deal and the banned CCCC Dredging Company. The Cebu Port Authority is smelling something fishy (not unusual in their line of work)

October 24th, 2016 - CPA stands by authority over ports amid suspected political maneuvers

quote:

“We won’t allow them to (push through with the project) because we are already pursuing the same project on the same site,” said CPA General Manager Edmund Tan, adding that the authority is the only agency mandated by law to be in charge of all port developments in the province of Cebu.

“We will fight for our mandate. If the President insists, they have to do it properly. We have to know what the whole project is about,” Tan told Cebu Daily News.

During his state visit to China last week, President Rodrigo Duterte secured $15 billion in investments from Chinese businessmen. The investment projects signed included the Cebu International Port and Bulk Terminal of Filipino company Mega Harbour and Chinese company CCCC Dredging Co., according to an Inquirer report.

Tan said that the CPA is already pursuing the P9.13-billion port project in Barangay Tayud, Consolacion, which was approved by the National Economic and Development Authority National Economic and Development Authority (Neda ICC-CabComm) last Sept. 28.

He is confident that the Neda Board, chaired by President Duterte, will approve the agency’s proposal because they have the mandate under Republic Act No. 7621 or the CPA Charter.

RA 7621 provides that no private person or entity or local government unit can construct a port or pier without a permit from the CPA. It also states that only the CPA can manage, operate, maintain and develop ports and port facilities in the whole Cebu province.

“Of course, if somebody would come in without coordinating with us, we will not give them clearance,” he said.

Neda–Central Visayas Director Efren Carreon refused to comment on this development saying that he had yet to receive feedback from central office. Presidential Assistant for the Visayas Michael Dino, meanwhile, said that he was aware of the China deal but that he was not involved in it. Asked whether the pledge was for the Tayud project, Dino said that he still had to check.

Tan said that while they were initially considering funding from the Korea ODA, other countries such as China may finance the project as well. Tan said that since the Chinese investment pledges were already secured, these can be used to fund CPA’s own proposed project instead.

Sought for comment by CDN, Consolacion Mayor Teresa Alegado did not respond to calls or text messages.

Asked about the possibility of President Duterte “bypassing” the mandate of the CPA to pursue the Mega Harbour project, Tan said “...The problem is nobody advised him [Duterte] about the law. Well, he might be aware of the law, but there might be some politics involved. We have to scrutinize and evaluate whether that is viable or if it is disadvantageous to government,” said Tan.

Tan said that ports run by private companies usually charge higher rates, making importers and, ultimately, consumers suffer. “How will they recoup their investments? They will have to increase their port charges and tariffs. Importers will suffer, but in the end, they will have to pass it on to the consumers,” Tan added.

It was around about now (October 25th) that Gradenko found out that many of the Chinese companies on the list were corrupt and such, and after reporters got a whiff of this, Mayor Teresa Alegado started doing some damage control.

October 25th, 2016

quote:

THE study for Mega Harbour’s proposed international port project called the “Cebu International and Bulk Terminal” project has been prepared 30 years ago. Consolacion Mayor Teresa Alegado said this as she belied claims that there could have been politics involved in the joint venture agreement between Mega Harbour Port and the town to build the P16-billion port project.

Alegado claimed that the study for the port had been done by Japan International Cooperation Agency about 20 to 30 years ago, and it was also part of the Mega Cebu Road Map in 2013.

“What’s important is the port is finished. Once we have a new and bigger port, the commodities that will enter Cebu will be cheaper,” she said, “The merit of the project is on the use of the project. As the leader of this town, I wasn’t sitting idle. I am not ignorant. I know what I am doing,” she told Cebu Daily News.

She also denied claims of Edmund Tan, Cebu Port Authority (CPA) general manager, that politics could have been involved in the town’s agreement with Mega Harbour for the port project in Barangay Tayud.

Mayor Alegado also welcomed the investment pledges of state-owned Chinese firm CCCC Dredging Company for Mega Harbour’s “Cebu International Port and Bulk Terminal project” in Cebu. This forms part of $15 billion in pledges secured by President Rodrigo Duterte from government and the private sector during his state visit to China last week. “Who would decline that? That’s such good news,” said Alegado.

Alegado said she was told that CCCC has long been interested in Mega Harbour’s port projects, among which are those that will be built in Davao City and Manila as well.

October 26, 2016 - Firm to build P16.4-B Consolacion port 'banned'

quote:

THE firm chosen to build a P16.4-billion international container port in Tayud, Consolacion had partnered with a Chinese firm whose parent company the World Bank (WB) has banned for fraudulent practices.

Officials of the Consolacion Municipal Government, however, remain confident in Mega Harbour Port and Development Inc.’s capacity to implement the project, given their track record in port development.

In an interview with Sun.Star Cebu yesterday, Municipal Legal Officer Atty. Paolo Crispin Sucalit said due diligence was observed before Mayor Teresa Alegado entered into a joint venture agreement (JVA) with Mega Harbour.“We went through all the processes,” he said. It took the local government more than a year to scrutinize the unsolicited proposal. He said Mega Harbour is entirely separate from CCCC. A background check was conducted, he said. It was in the middle of 2015 when Consolacion received the unsolicited proposal of Mega Harbour. In October last year, Mayor Alegado issued a certificate of acceptance. By December, the Municipal Council passed a resolution endorsing the 85-hectare reclamation project also known as the Cebu International Container and Bulk Terminal Project. Mega Harbour’s proposal was then subjected to a Swiss challenge sometime in February this year. No other developer submitted a comparative proposal.

Sucalit said the issue of CCCC with WB is not related to the construction of the international port in Consolacion.

“The debarment refers to World Bank-funded projects, either through aid or loan. Our project will involve no loan. If there’s any risk, it’s on Mega Harbour’s part. The private entity will pay for this project. No cash will be required of the government. Any anomaly will harm the private partner),” he said. Sucalit emphasized that the cost of implementing the international port will be shouldered entirely by Mega Harbour.

Before he assumed the presidency, Bacus said, Duterte had signed a memorandum of agreement with Mega Harbour for a 200-hectare port project in Davao City.

Bacus, for his part, said he is surprised by the CPA’s stand on the project now since it was former CPA general manager Dennis Villamor who introduced Mega Harbour to them.

Sucalit said they only learned of CPA’s separate plan to build an international port last August.

The is no reference to 'Cebu International Container and Bulk Terminal Project' on the internet older than 1 week. It's also very hard to believe the Mayor's office had only heard about the CPA port plan in August - its been pretty big news for years. Please note that for the interest of brevity I've not included every piece of text from all pages, but I haven't intentionally removed anything important or cherrypicked.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
That's great work, chird. Do you mind if I repost that? Would you want to be attributed in some fashion?

ihatepants
Nov 5, 2011

Let the burning of pants commence. These things drive me nuts.



Rap Record Hoarder posted:

I'm really surprised there's not more uproar from Filipino-Americans or expats here in the States, this sort of diplomatic row could really gently caress a lot of people over if the State Dept decides to play hardball and embarrass Duerte by showing him how small of a player he actually is.

Apparently Duterte said that Fil-Ams opinions don't count as Filipinos because we're now only pure American.

http://themaharlikan.info/world/duterte-filipinos-in-america-dont-count-they-are-americans-not-pinoys/

chird
Sep 26, 2004

gradenko_2000 posted:

That's great work, chird. Do you mind if I repost that? Would you want to be attributed in some fashion?

Go ahead, no attribution necessary.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586723/news/nation/duterte-says-god-talked-to-him-on-the-plane-i-promised-to-stop-cussing

quote:

President Rodrigo Duterte on Thursday said he has made a pledge to God to stop cussing in his speeches.

Upon arriving in Davao City after his three-day official visit to Japan, Duterte shared a moment of epiphany during his flight.

"I was looking at the skies as I was coming over here. And I... everybody was asleep snoring. A voice said that you know 'If you don't stop (inaudible), I will bring this plane down now.' And I said, who is this? Of course, it's God. Oh, OK. So, I promised God not to express slang, cuss words," he said.

"You guys hear me right always because a promise to God is a promise to the Filipino people," he added.

The people present at the event clapped.

To which, Duterte said, "[Please don't clap too much, I might still foul this up.]"

But when asked whether he would no longer cuss at frequent targets such as the United States, the European Union, or Senator Leila de Lima, Duterte replied: "There is always a time."

"Actually, [if you know me, even ask the people I grew up with, they would call me Superman, as though I could read your mind]" he said.

gradenko_2000 as he's translating posted:

So help me I can't loving understand what he's saying here, sorry

"There is always a time. A time to be foul-mouthed. I don't like anybody reading my mind. It's all calibrated, it's always timing. Watch out for one thing, that's what I've learned, miscalculation," he added.

Duterte, during the press conference, did not curse once.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
In lesser news, he met with a Philippine beauty queen and said she proves that Filipinas are beautiful, except for those in the Commission on Human Rights, who are all ugly.

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586723/news/nation/duterte-says-god-talked-to-him-on-the-plane-i-promised-to-stop-cussing


"There is always a time. A time to be foul-mouthed. I don't like anybody reading my mind. It's all calibrated, it's always timing. Watch out for one thing, that's what I've learned, miscalculation," he added.

Duterte, during the press conference, did not curse once.
[/quote]

Truly the mark of a great leader.

Wizchine
Sep 17, 2007

Television is the retina
of the mind's eye.
Whoever applied the Dunning-Kruger effect to this guy nailed it. And I'm thankful to SA for introducing me to this term.

In my best Bugs Bunny voice, "What a maroon."

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
Duterte, on China and Russia: [There are no more communists today.]

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/10/27/16/duterte-communism-is-an-ideology-long-gone posted:

President Rodrigo Duterte on Thursday evening said that communists no longer exist in this day and age. The president made a remark during a press conference in Davao City, following his return from an official visit to Japan. Asked about the Philippines' renewed relations with Russia, which was known for its socialist government, Duterte said communism is a thing of the past.
"Hoy! Wala nang komunista! That is an ideology that is long gone," the president said.
(Hey! Communists no longer exist. That is an ideology that is long gone.)

"Wala nang komunista ngayon," Duterte added. "The communist party is just for control, para hindi sasabog. There are billions of them. Kung sabihin mo na sa commune na magtrabaho tayo lahat, those were the propaganda days of the Americans during the Cold War."
(Communists no longer exist today. The communist party is just for control, so that they would remain intact. There are billions of them. If you say that we're going to work in a commune, those were the propaganda days of the Americans during the Cold War.)

Duterte, however, said in August that he subscribes to the socialist ideology and that he is friends with members of the Communist Party of the Philippines.

"Ito namang mga komunista, kaibigan kami. They are socialist but they are Communist Party of the Philippines. I am just socialist in my dimension kasi anak ako ng mahirap. I hate government and anyone oppressing the people," he said.
(These communists, they are my friends. They are socialist but they are Communist Party of the Philippines. I am just socialist in my dimension because I am a son of poor parents. I hate government and anyone oppressing the people.)

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/world/asia/philippines-duterte-mayor-police.html?_r=0

quote:

“If you are not guilty, why should you be afraid?” the mayor, Samsudin Dimaukom, told The New York Times in August.

On Friday, he and nine other men were shot dead at a highway police checkpoint, in what the police described as an antidrug operation.

poor guy and his concepts of guilt and innocence under a burgeoning totalitarian dictatorship.

Mirthless
Mar 27, 2011

by the sex ghost
Duterte working very hard to not be taken seriously outside of the Philippines. Purges are sure to go over well internationally!

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012
"Antidrug operation" is code for summary execution, right?

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.
Yes.


I know I shouldn't have, but I laughed a little. :smith:

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586806/hashtag/introducing-the-hinditama-project

quote:

Introducing the #HindiTama project

With Filipinos scattered all over thousands of the country's islands and the rest of the world, social media has become an invaluable tool for our countrymen to get the latest news and updates about current events. Filipinos are the most engaged people in the world on social media, which has become the first stop for many people for getting news updates.

Social media, for the most part, has been a tool for empowerment. In the past, media managers and editors have been the sole gatekeepers when it comes to choosing the news reports that are produced and written, and eventually viewed and read by people. Social media has turned that dynamic on its head: tools are available for people to take up the mantle as citizen journalists, while any regular Facebook user has a newsfeed customized to his preferences -- because news delivered to the user is tailored to his interest and behavior, as if it were a publication with headlines and stories edited to his taste.

But social media is far from perfect. One of the pitfalls we've seen on social media has been the proliferation of fake news articles and memes, which are then shared and re-shared to bigger audiences. In this case, social media becomes a powerful tool for disinformation instead of enlightenment.

Because of this, GMA News Online is starting up the #HindiTama project, which aims to put in check some of the viral hoaxes that spread on social media. We believe that whichever part of the political spectrum one falls on, fake news doesn't do anyone any favors, and only serves to undermine the power of social media to enlighten.


The #HindiTama project will produce articles that will call out fake news and inaccurate memes, to hopefully help keep inaccurate information from spreading.

However, these articles are only one part of the project. The other part lies with users; because of social media, they've become as involved as gatekeepers of news and information as media managers and editors. We believe that they will be key for any project such as this to be successful.

With articles from the #HindiTama project, we hope to provide a tool for users to be able to help combat disinformation. When one sees a fake news article or a meme with wrong information, a user can simply cut and paste the URL of the #HindiTama article onto the comment on the post. It can be a gentle and respectful way to tell a family member, a friend, a co-worker, or fellow netizens not to believe the article, and encourage them to take the post of the fake news down.

To start, we've published these articles to begin the series:

1. Hindi Tama: Sites claim FVR tested positive for drugs, died in hospital
2. Hindi Tama: Video shows how to make a wireless smartphone charger at home
3. Hindi Tama: Photo purports to show relief operations for Typhoon Lawin
4. Hindi Tama: Graphic compares Supertyphoon Lawin with Supertyphoon Yolanda
5. Hindi Tama: Site claims Trudeau gave 'fullest support' to drug war

Users can also help the project by submitting fake news or memes by messaging us on Facebook and Twitter.

"Hindi Tama" is Filipino for "not right", or "not correct". To be linguistically nitpicky, they could have said "Hindi Totoo", which translates to "not true"

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586804/hashtag/hinditama-sites-claim-former-president-ramos-tested-positive-for-drugs-died-in-hospital

quote:

#HindiTama: Sites claim former President Ramos tested positive for drugs, died in hospital

Former president Fidel V. Ramos was reportedly rushed to an undisclosed hospital in Germany on Tuesday where, according to unnamed sources, he tested positive for drugs and subsequently died late Thursday.

The spurious report was carried by websites aljazeera-tv.com, bbc-channel.com and thet1mes.com—all of which seem to be impersonating legitimate news outlets Al Jazeera, BBC News, and The Times.

None of the websites gave any independently verifiable information about Ramos, his condition, and the hospital in which he was supposedly confined.

However, Ramos was actually seen alive and well in the Philippines on Thursday evening, October 27, at the Turkey National Day celebration hosted by Amb. Esra Cankorur in Makati City.


The context behind this is that Fidel Ramos used to be an ally of the Duterte campaign and administration, going so far as to be Duterte's special envoy to China. But it seems he's drawn the ire of the pro-Duterte brigade when he made some critical remarks about the President when asked to evaluate the first 100 days of his government.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586691/hashtag/hinditama-graphic-compares-supertyphoon-lawin-with-supertyphoon-yolanda

quote:

#HindiTama: Graphic compares Supertyphoon Lawin with Supertyphoon Yolanda

Typhoon Lawin's development into a supertyphoon just before it made landfall in Northern Luzon last October 19 naturally prompted comparisons with 2013's disastrous Yolanda—which, according to experts, is still the strongest cyclone ever to make landfall.

After the typhoon left the Philippines, the Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) earning praise for independently handling the relief operations.

But the relief work was quickly picked up and turned into a political issue, with observers comparing the Duterte government's handling of the disaster with that of the Aquino administration post-Yolanda:

The post was shared over 2,000 times since it was uploaded on October 23.

However, Japan-based meteorologist Robert Speta quickly shot down the comparison and urged the public not to panic over the misinformed post.

"Yolanda was a much stronger storm by official records, and it wasn't even close," he said.

He pointed out that cyclones' actual strength is gleaned from its reported sustained wind speed, not its gusts.

Official PAGASA updates posited Yolanda's maximum sustained winds on landfall at 235kph, while Lawin's strength at landfall was 225 kph.

"During Lawin's peak, no one in official circles was asking if it was as strong as Yolanda. We didn't have to," Speta said.


Speta allayed fears over Lawin's ominously larger diameter compared to Yolanda, explaining that much of a cyclone's perceived size is comprised of upper-level clouds that do not directly affect weather conditions on the ground.

He also pointed out that differences in landscape and population also contributed to the lower casualty figures in Lawin's aftermath.

As a coup de grace, Speta chided the poster for not even getting the photographs right:

"Was the meme-maker so lazy that they had to just put the same picture to represent each storm? I mean, at least have the correct pictures of the storms your talking about."

"Ultimately, who was president would not have factored into the outcome of either event.
Geography and the true magnitude of the storm play a much bigger role," Speta concluded.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586690/hashtag/hinditama-viral-photo-purports-to-show-relief-operations-for-typhoon-lawin

quote:

#HindiTama: Viral photo purports to show relief operations for Typhoon Lawin

In the days following Typhoon Lawin's devastation of Northern Luzon, a photo of supposed relief operations went viral on social media.

People purported to be disaster victims were shown smiling as they walked away with sacks of rice in their hands, one to a person.

quote:

Mga ka-DDS nagulat ako dito Grabe!! sako sakong bigas ang mga pinamimigay ng DSWD sa mga nasalanta ng bagyong...
Posted by Duterte-Marcos Loyalist on Saturday, October 22, 2016

https://www.facebook.com/DuMarLoyalist/
https://www.facebook.com/DuMarLoyalist/posts/202061593562840

Translation: My fellow DDS members, I was so shocked and surprised by this! My God! The DSWD is giving away sackfuls of rice to those hard-hit by the typhoon
DDS meaning "Davao Death Squad"
DSWD meaning the "Department of Social Welfare and Development"

The accompanying caption credited the windfall to the Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) under the Duterte administration. It also criticized the previous administration for failing to provide the same level of service.

"Sako-sakong bigas ang mga pinamimigay ng DSWD sa mga nasalanta ng bagyong Lawin, samantalang noong bagyong Yolanda tig-dadalawang kilo lang bawat pamilya... Malayong-malayo na talaga ang pinagkaiba ng dating administrasyon at sa kasalukuyang administrasyon ni Pangulong Duterte," it read.

Translation: The DSWD is giving away sackfuls of rice to those hard-hit by Typhoon Yolanda, compared to when they were only giving away two kilos of rice per family in the aftermath of Typhoon Yolanda ... there is really a huge difference between the previous administration and the current administration of President Duterte.

However, the original photographer came forward, pointing out that the picture was taken four years ago in July 2012 at an outreach event organized by the non-profit Tzu Chi Foundation, Philippines.

The photographer, Camille Nepomuceno, bemoaned the misappropriation of her work for political purposes and without attribution.

"Masakit para sa isang writer (at) photographer na angkinin ng iba ang bagay na pinaghirapan nya... (M)aling-mali ang ginawa ng mga admin ng (mga Facebook pages) sa pag-angkin ng isang larawan at sabihin ito ay bunga ng magandang pamamahala ng administrasyong Duterte," she said.

Translation: As a writer and a photographer, it hurts when other people steal your hard work ... it's very wrong that what the admins of Facebook pages did to steal this one photo and say that was the fruit of the governance of the Duterte administration.

"Kung gusto nyong pabanguhin ang Presidente, posts things that took place under his administration and not grab from other sites," Nepomuceno underscored.

Translation: If you want to make the President smell like roses, posts [sic] things that took place under his administration and not grab from other sites.

Nepomuceno's outcry has since led to numerous Facebook pages taking down their reposts, though some still remain as of posting time.

A news aggregator blog post accompanying the photo has also since been taken down.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/586814/hashtag/hinditama-site-claims-trudeau-gave-fullest-support-to-drug-war

quote:

#HindiTama: Site claims Trudeau gave 'fullest support' to drug war

A news story claiming that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau lent support to Philippine President Duterte's war on drugs has been making the rounds anew on social media.

The original article, posted on dw-tv3.com, quoted Trudeau as allegedly saying:

"Canada and the Philippines have been good friends for centuries. Philippines, know that Canada loves you and we are giving you the fullest support. Count on us anytime and we would be at your doorstep."

The statement was allegedly given in the context of support for Duterte's war on drugs.

"As the war on drug (sic) progresses, many of the leaders who criticised (the Duterte administration) have come back to aknowledge (sic) the need for this war," dw-tv3.com reported.


However, no such statement was issued either by the Canadian Embassy nor by Trudeau himself. The Prime Minister is very active on social media, sporting a verified Twitter account (@JustinTrudeau) with over two million followers.

Interestingly, it is impossible for Canada and the Philippines to "have been good friends for centuries" since the Canadian department of foreign affairs was only established in 1909. And prior to the twentieth century, the Philippines and Canada were territories of opposing world powers: the Spanish and British empires, respectively.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

FAUXTON posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/world/asia/philippines-duterte-mayor-police.html?_r=0

poor guy and his concepts of guilt and innocence under a burgeoning totalitarian dictatorship.

This is like some sort of black comedy.

By the way, do we have any data on whether Duterte's initial rate of EJKs has been continuing into his presidency? I remember earlier there was a statistic that something like 3,000 had been killed in X weeks, but that was at least a few weeks ago.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/794598/kill-list-drugs-duterte

quote:

Update 33
Killings as of 12:00 p.m., Oct. 24, 2016
Since June 30: 1,368
Since May 10: 1,415

This is a very particular dataset though, if it seems like the number is low to you.

Related reading:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-duterte-data-specialrepor-idUSKCN12O1CB

quote:

Philippines' President Rodrigo Duterte ended a recent speech in Manila with a now-familiar claim: Two policemen were dying every day in his violent battle to rid the country of illegal drugs.

But police statistics have shown that figure to be exaggerated. From July 1, when Duterte launched his "war on drugs," to Oct. 12, when he spoke in Manila, 13 police officers were killed. That's an average of one every eight days.

This is not the only dubious claim Duterte has used to justify his bloody anti-narcotics campaign, according to a Reuters review of official government data and interviews with the president's top anti-drug officials.

These officials say that data on the total number of drug users, the number of users needing treatment, the types of drugs being consumed and the prevalence of drug-related crime is exaggerated, flawed or non-existent. But they say the problematic statistics don't matter because the campaign has focused attention on a long-neglected crisis in the Philippines.

"I don't see it as a problem," said Wilkins Villanueva, the Metro Manila regional director for the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA), the country's leading anti-narcotics agency. "Before, our fight against dangerous drugs was a lonely battle… Now, everybody's helping us – the community's helping us."

Nearly 2,300 people have been killed in police operations or by suspected vigilantes since Duterte took office on June 30, according to the Philippines police. That figure was revised down this month by the police from an original tally of 3,600 deaths.

In response to questions from Reuters, Presidential Communications Secretary Martin Andanar said the story was "malicious" and referred Reuters to the Philippine National Police.

quote:

In his inaugural State of the Nation Address on July 25, Duterte declared that there were 3.7 million "drug addicts" in the Philippines.

"The number is quite staggering and scary," he said. "I have to slaughter these idiots for destroying my country."

But according to a 2015 survey by the Office of the President's Dangerous Drugs Board (DDB), the main drug policy and research unit, the Philippines has fewer than half that many drug users.

And rather than being "addicts," as Duterte refers to all drug users, about a third of the 1.8 million users identified in the DDB survey had taken drugs only once in the previous 13 months. Fewer than half of them – 860,000 – had consumed crystal meth, or shabu, the highly addictive stimulant widely blamed by officials for high crime rates and other social ills. Most were marijuana users.

PDEA's Villanueva said he didn't care if President Duterte "overestimates" the number of drug users as long as it made people aware of the problem.

Officials in the president's media office contacted by Reuters could not say where the data came from to back up another of the government's central claims: that 75 percent of serious crimes in the Philippines are drug-related.

quote:

A senior Philippines law enforcement officer said Duterte's "arbitrary" figures had put pressure on police and government officials.

"The problem is, every time the president says something, it's already some sort of a policy statement," said the officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We have to toe the line."

The officer pointed, for example, to the more than 700,000 people who have registered in the past three months with the authorities as drug users or pushers, a process known as "surrendering." But, he said, authorities were expected to produce at least 1.8 million "surrenderers" to match the number of users cited in the DDB report.

"That's the reason we are having a hard time. We need to produce," he said. "Even if we add up everything...we are not even close to 1.8 million."

PDEA's Villanueva said the president's assessment of the drug problem was reasonable, and he felt no pressure.

"He just exaggerates it so we will know that the problem is very big," Villanueva said of Duterte. "The implication is that we have to work hard to solve the problem and we have to work hard so that...occasional drug users do not turn into regular drug users."

quote:

Joanne Csete, a specialist in health and human rights at the Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University in New York, said that the term "current drug users" usually refers to those who have used drugs in the past month. However, the DDB survey counts anyone who has used drugs in the past 13 months, which Csete says could inflate the number of users.

"So the president can make up whatever numbers he likes – the survey does not adequately estimate current use," she said.

The claim that 75 percent of "heinous crime" in the Philippines is drug-related features in an official booklet called "Winning the First Phase of the Drug War." It was handed out by the president's media team in September at a regional summit in Laos attended by world leaders.

According to the booklet, heinous crimes include murder, rape, human trafficking and treason.

It is not clear where the president's media team got the 75 percent figure. The booklet identifies the source of the number as the Philippines National Police Directorate for Investigation and Detective Management (DIDM). But six officials in the office responsible for the booklet and at the DIDM were unable to point to a specific study or explain how the figure was calculated.

Nimfa Reloc, who monitors heinous crime cases for DIDM, said the office had released no such data or analysis and did not know where the number came from. She said 15 percent of heinous crimes are drug-related.

quote:

"Index" or serious crimes in the Philippines dropped by 31 percent in January to August this year compared with the same period in 2015, according to police statistics presented to a Senate hearing on extrajudicial killings on Oct. 5.

"If you don't call it winning, I don't know what to call it," said Villanueva at PDEA.

But the same police statistics show serious crime was already in decline during the administration of Duterte's predecessor, President Benigno Aquino, who did not conduct a war on drugs.

In fact, Aquino was still in office for most of the period covered by the 2016 statistics. The police figures show that in the January-August period of 2015, serious crime was down 22 percent compared with the same period the previous year. In 2014, it declined 26 percent.

While the crime rate has been dropping for several years, under Duterte the murder rate has risen since he launched his anti-drug campaign. In the first three months of his administration, police recorded a total of 3,760 murders, compared with 2,359 in the same period last year, a rise of 59 percent.

"Compared with last year, we are better off this year," said Dionardo Carlos, the national police spokesman. "Most of the victims this time are the drug users."

quote:

Reyes said domestic support for the drug war wouldn't change even if it was widely known that the country had far fewer drug users than Duterte claims. "There is really a perception that we need a hardline approach to the problem," he said.

Other top backers of the drug war agree. The 3.7 million figure cited by Duterte "doesn't mean anything," said Villanueva. "I believe he has his own survey, aside from the DDB. But it's not a scientific one."

What’s important, he said, is that the president is now marshalling the resources needed to address the drug problem. PDEA is hiring and training another 400 agents and is expecting more firearms, vehicles and surveillance equipment, he said.

Philippines Senator Vicente Sotto, a former DDB chief who supports Duterte's drug war, said inflated figures serve a purpose if they scare users into quitting.

"If they make people alarmed, then why not? It doesn’t hurt anyone," he said. "People don't care how it's done as long as it's done."

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

FAUXTON posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/world/asia/philippines-duterte-mayor-police.html?_r=0

poor guy and his concepts of guilt and innocence under a burgeoning totalitarian dictatorship.

This is like some sort of black comedy.

By the way, do we have any data on whether Duterte's initial rate of EJKs has been continuing into his presidency? I remember earlier there was a statistic that something like 3,000 had been killed in X weeks, but that was at least a few weeks ago.

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Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012
God said no to cursing but yes to extrajudicial killings.

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