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nvining posted:Questions are: I've spent several hundred hours with Dredmore and is the game that got me into roguelikes (I'm still no hardcore RL player), but to be honest, I don't play it anymore and most of the community probably has moved on to other games. I feel it's flaws (crafting, UI and maybe a bit monotonous gameplay) cannot be solved without extensive revamps, it would pretty much be a new game. If you have the time and will to do so, sure, go for it, but I don't think it's really necessary. I would like to ask you: Do you guys plan/intend to return to the RL genre anytime in the future? It would be pretty interesting, especially with all your acumulated experience with Dredmor.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:00
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I remember him being way more dangerous in melee than at range, which is really counter intuitive since he is a wizard.
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Oct 29, 2016 00:00
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So,Slayer Shock just updated. It added a couple new mission types: Break poo poo, and kill x number of the new enemy type,who is an rear end in a top hat. There are also a bunch of new map parcels or whatever,more variation on Big Bads,and some miscellaneous gameplay fixes.
VolticSurge fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 00:02
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nvining posted:Since the Dredmor thread seems to have vanished into the depths of the forum I will post here: I'm considering pushing a maintenance patch for Dredmor now that Clockwork Empires has shipped to make it work better on some Windows 10/OS X machines with newer revisions, to fix the save game corruption bug with Steam Cloud, and to resolve a few other minor, long-standing annoyances. Maybe? My wife and I still Dredmor occasionally, albeit mostly as research for ttymor. (Alternate ha-ha-only-serious option: release the Dredmor source code.) quote:- is there any low-hanging fruit or other kibble worth cleaning up that has been a major annoyance over the past four years? Bear in mind we're not talking major rewrites, we're talking "I'll take a couple of weekends in a log cabin somewhere over the Christmas Holidays." This precludes dealing with the major elephant in the room, which is the inventory management for crafting; realistically, all crafted goods should just go in a big bucket and not in your major inventory, but that would be Controversial and Opening A Can of Worms. High-DPI support is the big pain point for me these days. Playing Dredmor on a 3k or 4k screen is just a really unpleasant experience. As far as inventory goes, if you were going to overhaul it, why not just take the UI from ToME4 or Dungeonmans and remove the inventory limit for everything, not just crafting materials? With the introduction of the Pocket Dimension the inventory limit was effectively removed anyways, it's just that "piles of garbage all over the floor" is a really lovely UI. (If you look at my post history in this thread I've written a lot of  on improving Dredmor, but some of them are things like "completely reimagine how the entire crafting system works" which are definitely out of scope for this even if you think they're a good idea.)Dredmor himself is also kind of a low point, as others have pointed out. He's not actually that dangerous as a caster, but hits like a truck in melee, which is both counterintuitive and means that the best way to handle him is just to show up with a big stack of sawblades or high-end crossbow bolts and unload on him. I have no idea how you'd improve that fight. Rodney is arguably much less interesting in any single matchup and is trivially disposed of, but what makes him interesting is that he doesn't stay dead; you end up in a running battle with him across ~40 floors of dungeon in which straight up fights with Rodney are mixed up with magical attacks and summoning of random bullshit at your location. But Dredmor doesn't have the same "escape the dungeon" goal. One thought that just came to me is that you could do something similar by turning the last floor into that kind of running battle; say, Dredmor respawns after a while if killed, and you win not by killing him but by destroying his phylacteries scattered around the level. Each one gets a pack of upgraded enemies as guards (and possibly attacking it respawns Dredmor immediately?). Basically a mix of the Rodney fight/escape from the dungeon and the Astral Plane except you have to visit all three altars. quote:- What has four years of post-Dredmor roguelike development even looked like? Huge advances in UI design, but there isn't really anything that comes close to Dredmor's skill system. 
ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 00:14
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nvining posted:Yeah, we can do that. I looked at some of the UI decisions that were made in the game the other day when I was trying to solve similar issues in CE, and wanted to gouge my eyes out with the Dwarven Punishment Toothpick. I think the basic flaws in Dredmor right now are the crafting, some of the UI, and... well, fighting Dredmor himself just kind of... sucks? It doesn't have the same satisfaction as dealing with Rodney or something like that. Anyhow, I will look at the feedback earlier on in this thread (where I think there was some good stuff) and have a poke around to see what we can address and in what order. Yeah Dredmore himself could use a room of his own too rather than just randomly appearing just anywhere, I know I've brought that up before along with a few others.
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Oct 29, 2016 01:07
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I remember a couple people complaining the game got into an unwinnable state during the final fight, so that should probably be looked at. I think someone specifically mentioned he teleported some place they couldn't get to him or something like that? Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing a final minor patch, might get me to pick up the game again for a bit...
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Oct 29, 2016 01:23
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Mercury_Storm posted:Yeah Dredmore himself could use a room of his own too rather than just randomly appearing just anywhere, I know I've brought that up before along with a few others. *kicks open door* *Dredmore right next to you*
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Oct 29, 2016 01:29
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*wades through 20 pages of Dredmor searches* Agh, my head. Well, I've learned a bit since 2011 I guess. I will give things a think this weekend; none of this is being looked at until after our Clockwork Empires launch has calmed down anyhow, so probably a couple of months in the distance, but... well, I guess there's enough interest to justify doing the legwork. I'm not sure what I would do about crafting in Dredmor: Blu-Ray edition. Ideally, I think crafting for weapons/armour is fine, and so are the encrusts. The problem is consumables. My inclination is to have the "junk stuff" (ingots, ores, etc.) dump into a second crafting inventory, with some way of automatically having you craft consumables if you can in the background. For instance, you could find a recipe and click "auto-craft", and then if you took a resting turn and had the resources you would just automatically churn through all your potions and stuff in the background. That would probably make it okay.
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Oct 29, 2016 03:41
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quote:I have no idea how you'd improve that fight. Rodney is arguably much less interesting in any single matchup and is trivially disposed of, but what makes him interesting is that he doesn't stay dead; you end up in a running battle with him across ~40 floors of dungeon in which straight up fights with Rodney are mixed up with magical attacks and summoning of random bullshit at your location. But Dredmor doesn't have the same "escape the dungeon" goal. Why not make it so you have to escape from the bottom to the top with Dredmor's phylactery so you can expose it to sunlight to finally destroy him for good or something? There's nothing quite like an ascension run to add tension to the end of a roguelike.
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Oct 29, 2016 04:57
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if i was given the herculean task of revamping the crafting system in dredmor i would definitely divide all the items/materials/etc. into 2 categories: those that can go straight into a 'pool' displayed on a dedicated tab that's automatically pulled from when crafting, and those marked as being more unique that take up actual space in the inventory it makes me think of guild wars 2, which has actual dedicated space in your bank for (the vast majority of) crafting materials and you never have to pull it out by hand unless you want to sell it. i've never been one to mind the crafting system in dredmor all that much, but it could definitely use a system along those lines.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:01
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Jazerus posted:Why not make it so you have to escape from the bottom to the top with Dredmor's phylactery so you can expose it to sunlight to finally destroy him for good or something? There's nothing quite like an ascension run to add tension to the end of a roguelike. Game length, for one. And I don't know if you've noticed, but revisiting levels in Dredmor is kind of boring, so you'd need to do something to spice it up beyond making a lich pop in from time to time. Really though, the kicker is that it'd be a more substantial rebalance than I would want to try to tackle in a couple of weekends. Maybe place a bunch of Evil Chests on the last level, all of which spawn Dredmor (with appropriate Evil Chest mods and maybe some escort monsters) and all of which must be dealt with to win? The chests could yield phylactery pieces, and you could optionally toss them all into a panini press for some silly benefit before you kill the last Dredmor. What would the phylacteries be? A diggle egg for one, obviously, but what about the others?
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Oct 29, 2016 05:06
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Who's Rodney?
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Oct 29, 2016 05:53
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RottenK posted:Who's Rodney? He's the Wizard of Yendor in Nethack.
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Oct 29, 2016 05:56
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Was he in rogue as well? I cant really remember rogue that well on account of not having played it.
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Oct 29, 2016 06:00
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Clever Spambot posted:Was he in rogue as well? I cant really remember rogue that well on account of not having played it. Mentioned (as the original owner of the amulet, which is still the goal of the game in Rogue), never shown.
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Oct 29, 2016 06:28
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nvining posted:*wades through 20 pages of Dredmor searches* The problems with crafting go much deeper than inventory space and mass producing consumables being a pain. To be honest the entire crafting system is kind of a complete and utter mess. You have to use a whole skill slot on a single crafting skill which you may or may not find recipes for, and for which you may or may not find enough parts to make. There's a good chance that you'll dump points into it and get nothing worth using in return except for a few stat points, which you could have gotten from another skill and also some actually useful abilities while picking all your gear up off the floor. You're still rolling the dice to see what you get but at least you haven't used up a skill on it.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:43
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Even if Dredmor only gets some Feel Good Updates a fair bit down the line from now---that's a pretty fantastic thing to see in the commercial Roguelike space all things considered down the long tail of it such as this. Though I'd obviously also echo the call for a future return to the breach of another RL outright especially given the venerable skill system and the progression the journey that is CE will surely make manifest even more so. I think there's a deeper fundamental issue with Crafting beget from, somewhere along the way, it became yoked to a Time/Kitchen Sink not unlike the Tyranny of Excel rotting the marrow of 4X in the vast majority of projects and that somehow became an acceptable norm. The better, harder route has to be one of Frantic, Mad-Science'ish Escalation----the unexpected and exotic, forcing pivots, epiphanies, interaction/questioning of the fundamental forces of the given X, and so on.
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Oct 29, 2016 14:34
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zirconmusic posted:New build of my Square/SNES inspired dungeon crawler is up! I decided to give it a whirl -- I like it so far! I got about halfway through the 4th floor, but then I opened a chest and my movement keys mysteriously stopped working (although I could still pull up the character sheet, etc), so that was the end of that. Thoughts: - It would be nice to have some kind of "look" command, to be able to see a monster's name from afar, and maybe get a ballpark estimate of its difficulty. - The equipment interface is kind of cumbersome. I wasn't able to figure out how to actually use the "repair" command mentioned on the menu. (It also seems like there's little reason to deviate from the standard I = Inventory keymapping.) - The "rest until healed" option only rests until your health is 100%, but often I wanted to restore my stamina/energy too, and it seemed like I needed to do this manually. It would be nice to have a way to do that (either have standard rest-on-heal do it, or have a second rest-on-heal also rest to refill the other bars). I'd be interested to see where this goes in the future!
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Oct 29, 2016 15:04
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Hot Dog Day #42 posted:I decided to give it a whirl -- I like it so far! I got about halfway through the 4th floor, but then I opened a chest and my movement keys mysteriously stopped working (although I could still pull up the character sheet, etc), so that was the end of that. If there are no plans to include a hurry-up feature to force players to move on, resting until healed should probably be replaced with just plain healing up when you're no longer in a fight. It's a little pointless to make people rest if there's no reason for them not to.
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Oct 29, 2016 15:17
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Hot Dog Day #42 posted:I decided to give it a whirl -- I like it so far! I got about halfway through the 4th floor, but then I opened a chest and my movement keys mysteriously stopped working (although I could still pull up the character sheet, etc), so that was the end of that. Yeah there was bad data in the item tables, and if that particular item ever drops the game softlocks. I think he fixed it in the latest build.
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Oct 29, 2016 16:38
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Thanks for the feedback on the game!~quote:- It would be nice to have some kind of "look" command, to be able to see a monster's name from afar, and maybe get a ballpark estimate of its difficulty. Agreed on all counts. In my local build I fixed up the "rest until healed thing to work for stamina and energy also. Examine should be easy enough to do so I'll see if I can do that before the next one goes out. I agree the equipment interface is not really great, it's my first pass programmer UI ultimately I want something a little more utilitarian that combines elements of both the equipment and character sheets. For example something like this: _29.png) My lead artist right now is working on the town area but once he finishes that I'll ask him to fix up some of these UI screens including the job one. quote:If there are no plans to include a hurry-up feature to force players to move on, resting until healed should probably be replaced with just plain healing up when you're no longer in a fight. It's a little pointless to make people rest if there's no reason for them not to. Yeah there is turn-based regen of your main stats like many roguelikes - the (R) command just passes turns until you're at max or until you see an enemy.
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Oct 29, 2016 16:48
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zirconmusic posted:Yeah there is turn-based regen of your main stats like many roguelikes - the (R) command just passes turns until you're at max or until you see an enemy. My point is, why bother with that? If the game is balanced around you being able to rest without penalty why not just fully heal you after combat automatically?
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Oct 29, 2016 16:51
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Slime posted:My point is, why bother with that? If the game is balanced around you being able to rest without penalty why not just fully heal you after combat automatically? I haven't played zirconmusic's game yet, it looks neat, but a problem like in, say, dungeon crawl is what defines after combat? Is it when you defeat an enemy? What if there's multiple? Is it when you don't see any enemies? What if you ducked around a corner from one? It's actually a difficult problem.
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Oct 29, 2016 16:58
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E; im dumb
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Oct 29, 2016 17:22
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Slime posted:My point is, why bother with that? If the game is balanced around you being able to rest without penalty why not just fully heal you after combat automatically? Resting takes turns and during those turns things can happen, such as monsters showing up, buffs running out, a timer before the roof collapses, etc.
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Oct 29, 2016 17:28
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Has anyone played Golden Krone Hotel yet? It looks fun, but some hands-on opinions would be good.
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Oct 29, 2016 20:39
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Beamed posted:I haven't played zirconmusic's game yet, it looks neat, but a problem like in, say, dungeon crawl is what defines after combat? Is it when you defeat an enemy? What if there's multiple? Is it when you don't see any enemies? What if you ducked around a corner from one? The dungeon crawl fork circus-animals deals with this in an interesting way: if you kill all visible monsters, the closest aware one within some shortish range gets teleported to the edge of your LOS. If there are no hostile monsters close enough, combat "ends" and you instantly full-heal.
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Oct 29, 2016 22:37
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Oh man, possible dungeon of dredmor updates? That would be amazing! Here are my ideas that I think would improve the game without being too difficult (hopefully) 1) Have the half floor mode drop more items. Right now you get less and that means having a weaker character than normal mode. 2) Put in more teleporters. Gettting around levels is often a pain when you just need to clean up. Maybe always have teleporters in the corners that goes to another corner. 3) Give crafting items there own tab. Inventory management is a huuuuge pain in the rear end. 4) Add in vending machines that give you recipes in exchange for gold. Later on you have too much gold but might never get the recipe you need. 5) Dredmor needs a buff. Silence/fear effects plus range makes him an utter joke. I would make his range attacks stronger and put in unique effect that if he gets silence/fear he cures it and maybe heals and/or buffs. 6) A disable attack animation option. I like them, but after 100s of hours I just want to go fast. Shwqa fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 03:55
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Give teleporters a rainbow of possible colors, with the two ends of a particular set corresponding, so that I can keep the drat things straight 
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Oct 30, 2016 05:38
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Jazerus posted:Give teleporters a rainbow of possible colors, with the two ends of a particular set corresponding, so that I can keep the drat things straight Or add a toggle button that draws lines connecting them on the minimap, yeah. I honestly never found them useful for dungeon navigation because of how hard they are to predict. If you were making a new roguelike and wanted to have a "fast travel" system, I'd say make the teleporters all connect to each other instead of being in pairs, and when you step on one you get teleported to the "next" teleporter that's roughly in your direction of travel. So if you want to go south, you walk southerly onto a teleporter, and you should go, roughly, south.
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Oct 30, 2016 06:03
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Friendly reminder that Dungeonmans a) Owns b) is 50% off http://store.steampowered.com/app/288120/ and c) Is still getting substantial updates and fixes almost two years after it's official release, the Halloween patch that just came out revamped the wizard class, and if you head over to the dmans thread, there's a pic of some WIP for a revamp of the crusty old world map. I am of course, wildly biased, but if you read this thread and somehow still haven't played it, go get it.
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Oct 30, 2016 21:17
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victrix posted:Friendly reminder that Dungeonmans Seconding this. It's probably the best pure dungeon crawling roguelike on Steam.
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Oct 30, 2016 21:29
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Finally bought Caves of Qud. First reaction: It's much prettier than I thought.
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Oct 30, 2016 23:10
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So I'm trying out Barony, and it's pretty cool so far; handles kind of like a first-person Nethack with UUW aesthetics. My biggest complaint so far is that it is badly underdocumented. In particular, I have no idea what any of the stats or skills do -- I can guess for some of them, but what, for example, is the difference between Magic and Casting? Is there any good documentation and/or newbie tips kicking around for this game? There's a wikia, but it's garbage.
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Oct 31, 2016 02:41
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ATTN madjackmcmad When are Dungeonmans Steam Cards going to be added so I can swag out my steam profile with some Badgemans
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Oct 31, 2016 03:39
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ToxicFrog posted:So I'm trying out Barony, and it's pretty cool so far; handles kind of like a first-person Nethack with UUW aesthetics. My biggest complaint so far is that it is badly underdocumented. In particular, I have no idea what any of the stats or skills do -- I can guess for some of them, but what, for example, is the difference between Magic and Casting? Use the rated Steam guides, it's how I picked up enough information to beat the game (it's mediocre early game rises to decent around the middle and then gives out with a weak fart in the end because the last boss is a brick wall of HP). There's this expectation you're playing it in a multiplayer session, unfortunately. Anyway, Magic determines what level of spells you can memorize while Casting determines success rates. You could try code-diving since Barony has been open-source since late June here. EDIT: On second thought don't code-dive because overriding methods appears to be a foreign concept to the developer holy poo poo (humanDie, ratDie, slimeDie, etc.) SECOND EDIT: I'm more impressed that he managed to code a workable server-client infrastructure and serviceable 3D graphics than horrified by some of the more monolithic methods (see actplayer.cpp's actplayer method from line 154 to 2183!) Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 04:05
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Despite the advancements of the genre Dungeons of Dredmor is is probably my favorite roguelike, especially in regards to the music. It made my day to see that it might get some love soon. 
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Oct 31, 2016 05:38
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Not really a Roguelike, but on sale for $2 for a day or less. If you like the world and themes behind Caves of Qud or Mad Max or Borderlands pick up Skyshine's Bedlam. This is a post-apocalyptic attempt at a tactical X-com that doesn't quite hit the mark. However for $2 the art style and base game play makes it entertaining enough to be a replayable steal. http://store.steampowered.com/app/367600/
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Oct 31, 2016 10:13
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Sage Grimm posted:Use the rated Steam guides, it's how I picked up enough information to beat the game (it's mediocre early game rises to decent around the middle and then gives out with a weak fart in the end because the last boss is a brick wall of HP). There's this expectation you're playing it in a multiplayer session, unfortunately. Anyway, Magic determines what level of spells you can memorize while Casting determines success rates. I've never had a spell fail -- is this something that changed in the Cursed Edition, or do Wizards and Arcanists just start enough with enough ranks that their spells never fail? quote:EDIT: On second thought don't code-dive because overriding methods appears to be a foreign concept to the developer holy poo poo (humanDie, ratDie, slimeDie, etc.) Yeah, I've already looked at the source some to figure out how Appraise works. It's...pretty alarming, but at least this means its resemblance to Nethack is more than skin deep.  On the plus side, it looks like it's still seeing active development; there's a steady flow of commits, and 2.0.4 was released earlier this month, fixing a whole slew of bugs and adding auto-appraise. (For those curious, the way Appraise works is that it's a static check of the Appraise skill + 5*PER against 1/10th the item's value, with two exceptions: if Appraise is 100, it always succeeds regardless of item value and PER, and gems and glass can't be identified unless Appraise is 100 regardless of their value. This explains why Arcanists have so much trouble IDing items: with PER -1, they need to gain six ranks in Appraise before they can ID anything, and even then will be limited to items costing 10gp or less.) E: went digging for the level-up code. A few guides say that the stats you gain depend on what skills you increased; this appears to be completely false. On level up it picks three stats at random and increases them. There's some weird code in there that looks like it's trying to avoid increasing the same stat twice, but it doesn't really work; instead what it means is that the level up code has a slight bias away from increasing STR or CHR. We can also add Barony to the list of games my 2yo enjoys; he sits in my lap telling me to "open door!" until we find a skeleton, rat, or spider, then points it out until I kill it and says (e.g.) "skeleton dead now! more skeleton?". ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 13:53
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DACK FAYDEN posted:ATTN madjackmcmad Just about 400 days ago. http://www.dungeonmans.com/?p=597 https://steamcommunity.com/market/search?q=dungeonmans
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Oct 31, 2016 15:00
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