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Baloogan posted:as far as I know they weren't charged for any of that, so its the proceqution's fault not the idiots' you know that still doesn't make what they did peaceful
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Oct 29, 2016 10:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They got a man killed by whipping him up into a paranoid frenzy to the point that he acquired a death wish. he was paranoid about the federal guys killing him. and federal guys killed him. paranoia is an irrational fear of something, turns out tarpguy wasn't irrationally afraid.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:34
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Baloogan posted:as far as I know they weren't charged for any of that, so its the proceqution's fault not the idiots' They were charged for the employees scared to come to work dude, that is what the conspiracy charge was.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:35
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Mavric posted:you know that still doesn't make what they did peaceful they were effectively picketing; maybe "nonviolent" is a better word to use than peaceful
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Oct 29, 2016 10:34
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Baloogan posted:they were effectively picketing; maybe "nonviolent" is a better word to use than peaceful Is it nonviolent for me to point a loaded gun in your face?
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Oct 29, 2016 10:37
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ate all the Oreos posted:They were charged for the employees scared to come to work dude, that is what the conspiracy charge was. oh thats dumb then, the bundies totally didn't scheme and plan in secret to make some federal employees have to telecommute
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Oct 29, 2016 10:37
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 This is how you protest with guns—unloaded, with no threats on others’ lives, and with government officials continuing their business. That’s the difference, not their race or political orientation.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:37
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Baloogan posted:he was paranoid about the federal guys killing him. and federal guys killed him. paranoia is an irrational fear of something, turns out tarpguy wasn't irrationally afraid. He wasn't paranoid about being killed, he literally said that he would rather die than go to prison. He committed suicide by cop.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:36
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So you can threaten violence, be prepared for it but as long as you don't the opprotunity to finally pull the trigger it's ok? I guess we have reached the "I'm not touching you" defense to real threats.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:38
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Baloogan posted:Again, bad examples because the bundy protests didn't kill or injure anyone at all he was found not guilty
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Oct 29, 2016 10:37
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WINNINGHARD posted:Is it nonviolent for me to point a loaded gun in your face? so who, pray tell, at this protest walked up to anyone and pointed a loaded gun at their face?
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Oct 29, 2016 10:39
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 This is a dumb protest, but unlike the MNWR occupation it was 1) actually a protest and 2) non‐violent You may note that no one was tried in connection with it, acquitted or otherwise.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:40
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Baloogan posted:so who, pray tell, at this protest walked up to anyone and pointed a loaded gun at their face? Answer my question first. Is it nonviolent for me to show up at your house with a loaded rifle and say "your claim on this house is illegitimate."?
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Oct 29, 2016 10:43
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as long as you don't point it apparently!!!!!!!
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Oct 29, 2016 10:44
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Baloogan posted:so who, pray tell, at this protest walked up to anyone and pointed a loaded gun at their face? The snipers they posted? I mean they were far away but certainly pointed loaded guns at people on several occasions.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:44
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WINNINGHARD posted:Answer my question first. Is it nonviolent for me to show up at your house with a loaded rifle and say "your claim on this house is illegitimate."? this is ignoring the wider context, using your analogy the fellow in the house stole the house long ago from the guys showing up with the loaded rifles, and acted like a robber baron dolling out grazing land and taking it away like a tyrant in matters pertaining to land managment in the western states (And in canada too) the federal government acts like a petty tyrant, stealing land from some, and given it out for political favors. And to take your analogy further, the guys who show up with rifles and such, camp out on the lawn for a month then peacefully surrender to the authorities without injuring or wounding anyone. Yes, I would call it nonviolent
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Oct 29, 2016 10:45
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Baloogan posted:this is ignoring the wider context, using your analogy the fellow in the house stole the house long ago from the guys showing up with the loaded rifles, and acted like a robber baron dolling out grazing land and taking it away like a tyrant The wider context here is that you're trying to claim "both sides do it" by comparing apples to oranges.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The wider context here is that you're trying to claim "both sides do it" by comparing apples to oranges. In this circus of idiots I think that "house" analogy is particularly stupid not my analogy
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Oct 29, 2016 10:47
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Baloogan posted:this is ignoring the wider context, using your analogy the fellow in the house stole the house long ago from the guys showing up with the loaded rifles, and acted like a robber baron dolling out grazing land and taking it away like a tyrant They showed up with loaded rifles and took it from the people whose cultural artefacts Bundy & co. were literally making GBS threads on.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:48
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I would have thought there would be a septic system at the very least
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Oct 29, 2016 10:48
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Baloogan posted:In this circus of idiots I think that "house" analogy is particularly stupid Ok, but you also implied that people who wanted justice for the Bundys also cheered for cop killers. That was pretty stupid.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:49
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Baloogan posted:I would have thought there would be a septic system at the very least Are you making a joke here or are you unaware of them digging the massive poo poo-trench. I'm genuinely curious, not trying to make fun of you or whatever.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:51
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Baloogan posted:I would have thought there would be a septic system at the very least also Baloogan posted:thats dumb then, the bundies totally didn't scheme and plan in secret to make some federal employees have to telecommute
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Oct 29, 2016 10:51
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they should really have been charged with destruction of federal property or something
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Oct 29, 2016 10:53
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Baloogan
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Oct 29, 2016 10:54
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Baloogan posted:this is ignoring the wider context, using your analogy the fellow in the house stole the house long ago from the guys showing up with the loaded rifles, and acted like a robber baron dolling out grazing land and taking it away like a tyrant Ignoring the wider context? Like people taking up arms against the state? Come on dude. Who did the federal government steal land from in this situation? The impetus for the first Bundy insurrection was Cliven Bundy's refusal to pay grazing fees on federal land. Any landowner would demand grazing fees from a neighbor in exchange for use of his land. It was unclaimed land when the US Army arrived in the 19th century and it has remained in the federal government's custody since that point. Periodically the federal government grants tracts of land to buyers for a price. The one party that could make a claim that their land was stolen are native americans - there were none involved in this event. Taking my analogy even further, it is no different than me showing up at your house with a loaded rifle, camping out there, refusing to let you inside, telling you I'll waste you if you set foot inside, and then leaving at the end of the month when the cops show up.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:54
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Baloogan i will answer literally everything! what haven't i answered so far WINNINGHARD posted:Ignoring the wider context? Like people taking up arms against the state? Come on dude. the feds stole the land from the indians; and the bunides grazed on that land for generations its just recently due to politics that they are cutting off access to land that should either have been bundies to begin with or available for people to buy from the indians
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Oct 29, 2016 10:59
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ate all the Oreos posted:Are you making a joke here or are you unaware of them digging the massive poo poo-trench. I'm genuinely curious, not trying to make fun of you or whatever. yeah i heard about the poo poo trench but till they got off I wasn't particularly interested in this, I thought they would be rotting in jail or something. Justice interests me, and I'm a bit shocked that a just verdict was reached.
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Oct 29, 2016 10:59
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Baloogan posted:bunides grazed on that land for generations its just recently due to politics that they are cutting off access to land No.
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Oct 29, 2016 11:01
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Baloogan ive got a trillion euro peckerwoods coming at me and im one man and my flask is runneth dry i will not run! i have, in many many many other threads been proven 100% wrong about things and i have accepted it with good humor.
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Oct 29, 2016 11:02
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it's not their land, it's federal land, that the feds lease out, at extremely favorable rates, that's the way it's always been like this is a literal land-grab from public property
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Oct 29, 2016 11:04
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? bundy father grazed there, did his parents graze their cattle there ?
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Oct 29, 2016 11:06
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Baloogan posted:Now answer the loving questions instead of dodging them.
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Oct 29, 2016 11:08
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the entire point of the takeover was to protest the sentence of some jackasses who poached deer ilegally out of season and then set fire to a shitload of federal land to hide the evidence of their poaching, during fuckin fire season like there is no defense of this takeover from any angle, ignoring their idiotic actions the entire fuckin reason for this poo poo was completely retarded to begin with
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Oct 29, 2016 11:09
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Baloogan posted:i will answer literally everything! what haven't i answered so far Cliven Bundy refused to pay the under-market grazing fees that the federal government asked for, because he does not believe the federal government is legitimate. Here are the questions you have not answered: Is it nonviolent for me to point a loaded gun in your face? Is the criterion for force someone actually dying? Are you OK with threats backed by firearms if they don't result in death when the targeted party complies? If I came to your house and put a gun in your face and said "give me everything valuable in your home or you're dead" would you consider that a peaceful exchange? a/s/l?
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Oct 29, 2016 11:08
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Malachite_Dragon posted:That's nice. list the questions ive missed!!
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Oct 29, 2016 11:10
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Over/under on Baloogan unironically calling the MNWR the “Harney County Resource Center”?
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Oct 29, 2016 11:10
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WINNINGHARD posted:Cliven Bundy refused to pay the under-market grazing fees that the federal government asked for, because he does not believe the federal government is legitimate. yes complicated no (tho I reject your analogy) no (tho I reject your analogy) older than my posts indicate / male/ america/canada
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Oct 29, 2016 11:12
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Platystemon posted:Over/under on Baloogan unironically calling the MNWR the “Harney County Resource Center”? i unironically don't know what MNWR or "Harney" is Is it nonviolent for me to point a loaded gun in your face? its BAD and its a threat and it implies violence based on context
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Oct 29, 2016 11:12
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i mean any defense of the occupation is immediately undermined by the fact that it was to protest two dudes who did super illegal poo poo and cost a ton of money to the state to put the fires out, endangeroing the lives of firefighters and anyone who lived anywhere nearby who could have been affected by the fires. starting fires intentionally in fire season in this state is straight-up one of the most fuckin lovely things you can do for a whole slew of reasons, protesting the sentences of the fucks who did it immediately destroys any sense of legitimacy of their cause.
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Oct 29, 2016 11:14
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