|
The price of the autopilot was $2500 earlier this year, increased to $3000 in August. The new option "Enhanced Autopilot" costs $5000 while "self driving capability" is a separate option at $3000. The latter depends on the former, but not vice versa as I guess you can buy the hardware and pay for software enabling later. $8000 all in all is pretty steep though, it better be good.
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
When tesla announced your car could only work for tesla's ride sharing service, Uber's lawyers got erections, and weren't entirely aware why until they saw the news. Even looking past the "software running safety systems under revocable software license" bag of snakes, imagine if microsoft said you could only use windows operating systems to code programs that run on windows.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
Ola posted:The price of the autopilot was $2500 earlier this year, increased to $3000 in August. The new option "Enhanced Autopilot" costs $5000 while "self driving capability" is a separate option at $3000. The latter depends on the former, but not vice versa as I guess you can buy the hardware and pay for software enabling later. $8000 all in all is pretty steep though, it better be good. $8K is about 10% on the most common configuration, I think. Seems reasonable as a premium to have the car drive itself. I thought all cars were going to have hardware though, so that they could gather driving data even when AP was unpurchased. That's how it works with AP1.0, and they did say that all cars being manufactured had the hardware. E: Powershift posted:Even looking past the "software running safety systems under revocable software license" bag of snakes, imagine if microsoft said you could only use windows operating systems to code programs that run on windows. Microsoft's developer tools do explicitly say that you can only use them to produce Windows programs, and Apple's are the same way. This is like Microsoft saying "if you rent out access to your computer running Windows, you have to do it on my terms". Which, in fact, I think they do say. (But I haven't read a Windows EULA in a long time.) Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:46
|
|
|
E: double post
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:$8K is about 10% on the most common configuration, I think. Seems reasonable as a premium to have the car drive itself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 17:52
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:This is a pretty bold piece of the license. Thanks for spotting that. If I ever meet you I'll buy you a beer.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
On the one hand, this is super lovely of them to sneak into a licensing agreement. On the other... it seems like it's only specifically talking about a self-driving rideshare, right? They're not saying "Teslas can't be used with Uber," they just don't want you 'giving' your car to Uber for the day while you're at work. If you're driving, you can do whatever you want, is how I read this. And if you're not driving it, you push a button in the Tesla app and it drives off to join the 'fleet'. I'm not sure how you'd add your car to Uber's fleet anyway (though I'm sure Uber is already working on figuring that out). We are certainly living in interesting times.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
I don't know about the whole let your driverless car pick up other people while you aren't using it thing... You just know people are going to use it for loving in.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Finger Prince posted:I don't know about the whole let your driverless car pick up other people while you aren't using it thing... You just know people are going to use it for loving in. Yeah, I have zero plans on loaning my car out to randoms. What happens when your first ride spills coffee everywhere, and the car has no idea and just continues picking people up. I don't want all those one-star reviews!
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:$8K is about 10% on the most common configuration, I think. Seems reasonable as a premium to have the car drive itself. Hopefully, they'll lower the price for the Model 3. There'd certainly be no excuse not to, what with the production volume. Pryce posted:Yeah, I have zero plans on loaning my car out to randoms. What happens when your first ride spills coffee everywhere, and the car has no idea and just continues picking people up. I don't want all those one-star reviews! Once the service starts, it probably wouldn't be that long before someone encounters something much worse than spilled coffee.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Thanks for spotting that. If I ever meet you I'll buy you a beer. Are you a plaintiff's attorney? Haha.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
Michael Scott posted:Are you a plaintiff's attorney? Haha. http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/10/dont-plan-on-using-an-autonomous-tesla-to-earn-money-with-uber-or-lyft/
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Cockmaster posted:Once the service starts, it probably wouldn't be that long before someone encounters something much worse than spilled coffee. Citizen Tayne posted:The year is 2046, because that is thirty years from 2016. I use my mobile app to summon an Uber autonomous cab to take me to work. It arrives with several major body panels missing. The door pops open and I slide into the back seat, careful to avoid the piles of feces and used needles littering the floor. The car shudders off like an old shopping cart, because two of the tires are blown. "This is progress," I think to myself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Gotcha! I keep forgetting we've got an Ars editor in our midst. Nice article Dr. Gitlin.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Thanks for spotting that. If I ever meet you I'll buy you a beer. I found it on Twitter IIRC, but I'll take the beer! Cockmaster posted:Hopefully, they'll lower the price for the Model 3. There'd certainly be no excuse not to, what with the production volume. They may already be amortizing the R&D cost across the combined expected volume of S3X(Y).
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Now Elon Musk is saying that the Model 3 reveal going to be a trilogy (having counted the self-driving technology announcement as Part 2, despite it not being Model-3-specific): https://electrek.co/2016/10/20/elon-musk-confirms-tesla-model-3-part-3-to-release-more-details-on-upcoming-electric-vehicle/ As impressed as I was with the progress they've made with their Autopilot system, I'd very much like to know what they'll be doing about the trunk. I'll take practical cargo capability over a glass roof any day. Also, they're planning to have one of their cars drive itself across the country late next year (right around when Elon Musk has been saying they'd have the self-driving system ready for primetime). With what they've shown off, that may not be entirely implausible: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/21/tesla-cross-country-autopilot-drive-2017/
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 01:26
|
|
|
I was doing some research on the RAV4 Hybrid (battery pack configuration) - they keep calling this the "high voltage" battery but it's only about 250Vdc. The motors are 650Vac (that's over 600V, so technically from a safety standpoint that is "high voltage"). So there must be a large power supply to go from the 250Vdc to a higher AC voltage for the motors. This guy pulled out his battery pack all by himself and found that some of the links were corroded - he was able to clean them and get the battery back in action without a problem at all. I'm a little scared that this problem occurred as low as 130,000-ish miles, but some people have gotten over a half-million miles on their batteries (Prius) without a problem. https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/2vs5fc/toyota_wanted_4450_to_replace_my_hybrid_battery/ Fortunately I do have a pair of 00 gloves (live work DC up to 750V) but you always need to wear the heavy leather other glove that wrecks your dexterity. I'm not sure about the arc flash potential on the batteries but any work like removing the links I'd want to make sure to use electrically insulated tools made for this sort of work. Has anyone with a Hybrid or EV done their own battery work? I'm still agonizing about getting a hybrid... 
Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:I was doing some research on the RAV4 Hybrid (battery pack configuration) - they keep calling this the "high voltage" battery but it's only about 250Vdc. The motors are 650Vac (that's over 600V, so technically from a safety standpoint that is "high voltage"). So there must be a large power supply to go from the 250Vdc to a higher AC voltage for the motors. Hmm... Jurassic Park Explorer in the background. Boomerjinks, is that you?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 07:58
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:Has anyone with a Hybrid or EV done their own battery work? There’s the PriUPS, if you haven’t seen it, which involves tapping the 220 V DC lines, but not working on the pack itself. Most of the third‐party plug‐in modifications are similar: add an auxiliary battery pack, don’t mess with the OEM one. Aside from hybrids, probably only the Rav4 EV (not hybrid) and Ford Rangers have been on the road long enough to have much independent repair done. e: There’s also stuff like this forum for roll‐your‐own EVs. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 07:59
|
|
|
I've also heard that the battery prices may decrease over time as well. I don't think that the battery packs themselves have any sort of "lockout chip" like ink cartridges do so that they can only accept OEM replacements. To be honest, in many ways the electrical equipment is much simpler to work on than the mechanical systems. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 08:06
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:Has anyone with a Hybrid or EV done their own battery work? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/plan-off-grid-solar-with-a-model-s-battery-pack-at-the-heart.34531/
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 09:03
|
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:Not quite related to your question, but I figure this might be interesting to you. Guy builds his own off-grid solar system using Tesla batteries. There seems to be so much potential in the combination of EVs, PV systems and off-grid power, particularly now that energy storage is expensive and EV cars have a lot built in. A battery in a Tesla could power my home for one evening/night and still have 70%+ capacity in the morning with the sun rises again (unless my napkin math is completely off).
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:Not quite related to your question, but I figure this might be interesting to you. Guy builds his own off-grid solar system using Tesla batteries. Here's the latest update from his blog for anyone interested: http://skie.net/skynet/projects/solar/view_post/17_One+year+of+off-grid+solar+power This is also the same guy who leaked the P100D image from a firmware update a while back, hacked his wife's car to display it's wrap color on the dash, and retrofitted all the AP hardware on to a pre-AP car.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 14:51
|
|
|
Sounds like a good way to get ride of that old sofa. I need a 1 mile ride share, toss it on the roof. Hey why is there a sofa on top of my ride share?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:There’s the PriUPS, if you haven’t seen it, which involves tapping the 220 V DC lines, but not working on the pack itself. There are also Youtube videos showing how to remove and recondition the battery (they say that when a battery appears to have worn out, often it's just one or two bad cells, which can be replaced for dirt cheap compared to a whole new battery).
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
Didn't catch this yesterday - Tesla made a profit last quarter, for the first time in three years: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37782083 Presumably they're trying to build confidence so the Solar City acquisition vote on November 17th goes smoothly..
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2016 10:17
|
|
|
Cockmaster posted:There are also Youtube videos showing how to remove and recondition the battery (they say that when a battery appears to have worn out, often it's just one or two bad cells, which can be replaced for dirt cheap compared to a whole new battery). I am close to pulling the trigger on the RAV4 hybrid but the battery worries are still sorta' keeping me up at night.  Still probably gonna get it. You know, "Yolo" and all. Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Oct 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:Still probably gonna get it. You know, "Yolo" and all. Congrats, you're hank hill
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 13:40
|
|
|
Going to drive the Volvo V60 Twin Engine this weekend. Let's see if it's as terrible as every other hybrid I've driven. At least it's better looking.
Collateral Damage fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Oct 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:Going to drive the Volvo V60 Twin Engine this weekend. Let's see if it's as terrible as every other hybrid I've driven. At least it's better looking. Please post your thoughts. My friend is considering a 60 or 90 Twin Engine (probably the former, the latter will likely turn out pricier than expected). I am a bit on the fence about it, it does have enough electric range for city use if you parked it at a charging spot. If it's poo poo to drive, that changes the equation quite a bit, because electrics are flippin sweet to drive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 15:56
|
|
|
Yeah that's my main gripe with hybrids in general, their electric range is awful and if you don't force them into EV-only mode they'll switch on the combustion engine as soon as you outpace a snail. The regular V60 is a nice car to drive, so assuming they didn't make any drastic changes to the rest of the car it just comes down to if they made the hybrid drivetrain any good. Volvo claims 50 km/31 miles EV-only range, and I'll definitely put that to the test.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 16:16
|
|
|
El Grillo posted:Didn't catch this yesterday - Tesla made a profit last quarter, for the first time in three years: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37782083 I was under the impression that the only reason they've been in the red was because of the battery factory (It's costing them what, $5 billion?) - that they'd have been turning a decent profit all this time if they had never bothered trying to move beyond luxury vehicles.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
I have a Camry Hybrid and it's very fun to drive. The pure EV range is hilariously low -- maybe 3 miles from a full charge and you can't go above ~40mph -- but the total experience is great: very fast acceleration, great mileage (42.5 mpg average over the summer; I expect it to drop in the MN winter), attractive styling, and a nice ride. I'm saying this because there is totally middle-ground between Prius/Leaf look-at-me-I'm-different and Tesla $90k-of-pure-sex. Toyota is the only manufacturer seriously producing these middle-ground cars, though. Camry, RAV4, Highlander, and several Lexus models have competitive hybrid options.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
I've read everything from a $20K loss to a $15K profit per S. Some of it probably depends on how you amortize ongoing R&D, just as the post-gigafactory numbers will depend on how that cost is amortized. IANACPA.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
blugu64 posted:Congrats, you're hank hill I suppose there are much worse fates. I need to do some research into what M/Gs Toyota uses.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 12:53
|
|
|
ClassH posted:When we got a new volt we got kinetic blue for this reason. Everything is silver or grey. I would love some details on the new volt, please.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 13:11
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:I've read everything from a $20K loss to a $15K profit per S. Some of it probably depends on how you amortize ongoing R&D, just as the post-gigafactory numbers will depend on how that cost is amortized. IANACPA. Cockmaster posted:I was under the impression that the only reason they've been in the red was because of the battery factory (It's costing them what, $5 billion?) - that they'd have been turning a decent profit all this time if they had never bothered trying to move beyond luxury vehicles. The cars themselves are indeed being sold at a good profit - 8 to 15K.The R&D for the cars is pretty much under control now as well so yes, as a car maker, they are making good profit and have been for some time. The only real big R&D cost looks like was the Model X and other major costs are tooling / ramping up for the Model 3 - given most of the tech for the Model 3 has already been put into production, R&D costs will be spread over more cars / models. As a entire entity, yes they are putting a lot of cash into the Gigafactory and that will affect the pretax earnign for some time, thence no net profit and nothing more than the occasional minor net profit going forward - it's basically like Amazon all over again. Amazon hasnt made real profits for it's entire existance, it simply turns all it's cash around into business growth and infrastructure. Tesla isnt the kind of business that you look to buy into for dividends because you jsut wont get much return that way. On the other hand the actual value of the buisness will grow fairly sharply so your shares should become more valuable..... Amazon itself runs about 30 Billion revenue a quarter, with about 250-500 million net profit..... which if you look at the books, almost every cent of that net profit is from AWS.... 3.2 Billion gross and basically it's the entire net profit Amazon makes. While comaparible sized businesses would be expected to have a bigger net, only a financial idiot would say Amazon is doing poorly because it makes no money - gently caress no, it's turning what would be a BIG profit into investment and writeoffs. Tesla are basically the same, BIG infrastructure investment offsetting what otherwise would be a nice net profit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
DNK posted:I have a Camry Hybrid and it's very fun to drive. The pure EV range is hilariously low -- maybe 3 miles from a full charge and you can't go above ~40mph -- but the total experience is great: very fast acceleration, great mileage (42.5 mpg average over the summer; I expect it to drop in the MN winter), attractive styling, and a nice ride. Eh, ford jumped on the middle plug in (C Max) and every non truck has a hybrid and plug in option (I wish there was a hybrid crossover)
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 15:14
|
|
|
Ryand-Smith posted:Eh, ford jumped on the middle plug in (C Max) and every non truck has a hybrid and plug in option (I wish there was a hybrid crossover) I'm not seeing the Fiesta, Taurus, or Mustang hybrid/EV options here: http://www.ford.com/new-hybrids-evs/?gnav=header-cars
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:I'm not seeing the Fiesta, Taurus, or Mustang hybrid/EV options here: http://www.ford.com/new-hybrids-evs/?gnav=header-cars The Taurus is the same body as the fusion i thought, and the C max is a festia body I thought! Mustang I forgot I will gladly admit, but they have the turbo 4 now so it's not that bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 16:21
|
|