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nm posted:This is probably a good sign that you don't know much about criminal defense. Preach. If your narrative is "protect my client from the mean government," you want the judge to appear to be mean to you. It's an incredibly useful skill that marks a good defense attorney from an average one. As a prosecutor, I never want to piss off a judge, and I cringe internally when a judge gets mad at me in front of a jury.
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Oct 30, 2016 00:10
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Folks, please note that the media reports saying the prosecutors "over-charged" are basing this position on interviews with one of the defense attorneys.
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Oct 30, 2016 00:52
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I love how every crazy militia supporter is suddenly an expert in ranging/land + water rights. nothing the Bundys did or advocate for makes legal or economic sense, and their 'solutions' to non-existant problems would directly lead to violence.
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Oct 30, 2016 01:07
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Discendo Vox posted:Folks, please note that the media reports saying the prosecutors "over-charged" are basing this position on interviews with one of the defense attorneys. They're also based on the string of NGs. I am curious to know what lessers were availible and why they were not charged.
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Oct 30, 2016 01:45
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Just wanted to quote this to record that Baloogan managed to flood the thread with what boils down to "I really know nothing about what is being discussed but I have strong opinions regarding it." Yes, and?
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Oct 30, 2016 02:28
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They were not charged with the specific things they did, like trespassing, breaking and entering, criminal mischief, etc., because the title 18 charges for those things require federal legislative jurisdiction (e.g., either exclusive or concurrent jurisdiction) in order to satisfy the special maritime or territorial jurisdiction element of those offenses. MNWR is proprietary jurisdiction because the federal government did not reserve legislative jurisdiction over those lands at the time of statehood and the state of Oregon has not ceded legislative jurisdiction to the federal government since then. The state of Oregon can charge them for those things. The federal government cannot. That remains true; double jeopardy is not an issue here. The only issue is the Oregon attorney general's willingness to sign up for prosecuting what has become a toxic case. This is why they were charged with conspiracy to impede. Because that is a) what they were actually doing so it was an appropriate charge, and b) the alternative of charging them with the litany of specific things they overtly did on camera was not available. And of course, some of them were charged with specific painfully simple things like carrying weapons in a federal facility and stealing things, which they loving obviously did, but the jury acquitted them of those because "sending a message" to a prosecutor they didn't like was more important to them than objectively applying the facts in evidence to the elements of the offenses. This is why the "hurrrrrrr dey overcharged" narrative from aggressively dumb contrarians like juror number four and baloogan is so stupid. Not that this will stop people like that from advancing these arguments, because they literally derive sexual pleasure from saying things that are both wrong and annoying.
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Oct 30, 2016 02:32
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Time for the state to get them for vandalism and theft. These fucks don't get to walk away with nothing. Give Fry another oppurtunity to go apeshit and get locked in a psych facility.
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Oct 30, 2016 03:34
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Oct 30, 2016 03:42
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For a second I thought bubba inc was their name for the militia
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Oct 30, 2016 03:45
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Oct 30, 2016 03:46
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you're late jeb, but hey who cares, its a good pun
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Oct 30, 2016 03:58
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I wonder if LaVoy is looking up from Hell feeling dumb for going with suicide by cop.
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Oct 30, 2016 04:47
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I wonder if LaVoy is looking up from Hell feeling dumb for going with suicide by cop. jokes on him, he's wormfood within the black Nothingness of Death
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Oct 30, 2016 05:11
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I wonder if LaVoy is looking up from Hell feeling dumb for going with suicide by cop. "I aint going to prison hurrrr!!!!!!!!!!" *8 months later everyone is acquitted "drat"
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Oct 30, 2016 05:12
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Baloogan posted:i will answer literally everything! what haven't i answered so far the bundys' ranch and claim is in nevada. this reserve is in oregon. reread the drat facts. Lamebot has issued a correction as of 05:15 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 05:12
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oh why did they occupy the reserve?
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Oct 30, 2016 05:16
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Baloogan posted:oh At least partially to protest the application of federal mandatory minimum sentencing laws against white people.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:18
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This is like listening to Socrates argue about sandwiches.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:18
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Baloogan posted:oh Because some ranchers lit some fires on federal land, including right below encamped firefighters and actually had to go to prison for arson.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:19
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Baloogan posted:oh Cubey posted:the entire point of the takeover was to protest the sentence of some jackasses who poached deer ilegally out of season and then set fire to a shitload of federal land to hide the evidence of their poaching, during fuckin fire season
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Oct 30, 2016 05:23
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thats a pretty dumb reason
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Oct 30, 2016 05:23
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im gonna go get some cider what would someone who supports the bundies describe their reasons?
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Oct 30, 2016 05:25
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Baloogan posted:im gonna go get some cider gubmint bad rahowa comin WAKE UP AMERICA
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Oct 30, 2016 05:32
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Baloogan posted:im gonna go get some cider Baloogan posted:the feds stole the land from the indians; and the bunides grazed on that land for generations its just recently due to politics that they are cutting off access to land that should either have been bundies to begin with or available for people to buy from the indians
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Oct 30, 2016 05:34
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Baloogan posted:im gonna go get some cider Over-reach of the federal government, evidenced by sending the two OR ranchers back to prison after they had completed their original sentence. After it became public knowledge that those two ranchers didn't want help from the Bundys, it became about over-reach of the feds by just owning land. Obviously there is more to the story.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:34
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Yeah but it all started when some guys were poaching deer. So the real moral of the story is deer suck.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:36
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Oct 30, 2016 05:37
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EorayMel posted:Yeah but it all started when some guys were poaching deer. hmmm well i can't argue with this so i guess they were right all along
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Oct 30, 2016 05:39
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VikingSkull posted:jokes on him, he's wormfood within the black Nothingness of Death That's the factual answer, but the funny answer is he shows up at the Pearly Gates and St. Peter says: "What? That bit of nonsense 19th century apostacy? No, lol."
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Oct 30, 2016 05:43
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Baloogan posted:im gonna go get some cider Well, in general they were looking for a way to protest federal land ownership. They chose Harney county as the site of the protest because they thought the Hammonds (local father son ranchers) were being mistreated. The Hammonds claim they set the fires as a backfire to prevent the wildfire from spreading onto their land, and they had no idea the firefighters were nearby. They admit they didn't get the required permit to burn, but claim they phoned the local BLM office, and someone there verbally gave them permission to set the fire. No evidence of this verbal permission exists. So they were tried and convicted of arson on federal land, and sentenced to a few months each. The prosecutor then appealed the sentences, because the particular charge they were convicted of has a minimum sentence of 5 years. By the time the appeal was settled the ranchers had already been released from prison, because appeals take time. So they were being forced to turn themselves in and go back to prison to finish their sentences. Bundy Bros incorrectly thought this constituted Double Jeopardy, that they were being punished twice for the same crime. This fed into their general narrative that ranchers are being mistreated by the federal government. The bird sanctuary had nothing to do with the case. I think they picked it because it was both nearby and out of the way, and nonessential enough that it would be completely unmanned during the New Year's weekend, letting them claim it was 'empty and abandoned" for their squatters right's claim.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:48
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:That's the factual answer, but the funny answer is he shows up at the Pearly Gates and St. Peter says: "What? That bit of nonsense 19th century apostacy? No, lol." Lol, as if Lavoy Finicum would create joinder with a Catholic.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:52
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They wanted confrontation with the Feds and discussed three plans. The wildlife refuge occupation is the one they happened to go with.
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Oct 30, 2016 05:53
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Fiend posted:Lol, as if Lavoy Finicum would create joinder with a Catholic.  at describing heretical Jew as a catholic
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Oct 30, 2016 06:10
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:
Finicum was a Mormon. The Catholic in this analogy is Saint Peter, not Fry.
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Oct 30, 2016 06:24
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Platystemon posted:They wanted confrontation with the Feds and discussed three plans. The wildlife refuge occupation is the one they happened to go with. The other two being assaulting Child Protective Services offices over some militia nuts kids being taken away, and "doing something" to refugees being settled stateside. The refugee plan may or may not have been similar to the other, probably unrelated, militia nuts who planned to carbomb a refugee owned apartment building and use automatic weapons on survivors that fled the debris.
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Oct 30, 2016 06:24
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WINNINGHARD posted:i'll show up at his house with a big loving gun and force him to listen to pearl jam for a month straight nonviolently A reminder that Eddie Vedder has a whole (awesome) album of ukulele songs.
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Oct 30, 2016 06:25
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Baloogan posted:i will answer literally everything! what haven't i answered so far By "just recently due to politics' what you mean is that Cliven Bundy refused to pay his grazing fees to the government, which are way below commercial feed rates, for 20+ years. After decades of nonpayment and numerous warnings, the government banned him from grazing public land and held some of his cattle in lien until the million dollars or more of back fees are paid in full. This is what precipitated Cliven whining to the moron hick militia about government overreach, decades of refusing to pay his fair share.
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Oct 30, 2016 06:53
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Additionally he's been selling his malnourished, unvaccinated beef under the table for the same amount of time.
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Oct 30, 2016 08:50
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Cliven Bundy choked to death for selling loosy hamburgers
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Oct 30, 2016 09:46
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Platystemon posted:Finicum was a Mormon. The Catholic in this analogy is Saint Peter, not Fry. I was talking about Peter. Dude saw himself as the follower of Jewish Messiah and got into a bunch of slapfights with Paul, who was the one who really set Christianity on the road to becoming what it is now because he was all about converting gentiles. Peter wanted to stick with being a Jewish sect, more or less.
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Oct 30, 2016 12:31
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