|
red19fire posted:By "just recently due to politics' what you mean is that Cliven Bundy refused to pay his grazing fees to the government, which are way below commercial feed rates, for 20+ years. After decades of nonpayment and numerous warnings, the government banned him from grazing public land and held some of his cattle in lien until the million dollars or more of back fees are paid in full. Also people don't realize that cattle are incredibility destructive to the land so the BLM fees are funding conservation and repair efforts for the land.
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 12:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 04:26 |
|
|
BLM fees are also cheap as gently caress compared to the rates of the Free Market®.quote:in 2014, grazing fees covered only 15 percent of the bureau’s costs to maintain grazing lands. The rest of the cost is made up in federal appropriations and covered by taxpayers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 12:37
|
|
|
I was talking to a guy who lives in Texas now and he said a lot of companies have longhorns just grazing because they give subsidies which is funny to me that's my story
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 12:43
|
|
|
red19fire posted:By "just recently due to politics' what you mean is that Cliven Bundy refused to pay his grazing fees to the government, which are way below commercial feed rates, for 20+ years. After decades of nonpayment and numerous warnings, the government banned him from grazing public land and held some of his cattle in lien until the million dollars or more of back fees are paid in full. Incidentally, what the feds wanted him to pay was far, far less than what the fine from the original court order would have been. I remember calculating it back during the 2014 standoff because some 2woke4u people were whining about how the government was oppressing this poor downtrodden farmer and they'd never do this to a millionaire and finding it to be something along the lines of eight hundred million dollars. The fine per excess cow per day wasn't even that much.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 12:49
|
|
|
So the whiny white men get free lunches yet again?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 14:48
|
|
|
Cliven Bundy is a terrible rancher and his cattle are feral. His competent rancher neighbors are pissed because they’re spreading disease.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 14:55
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Cliven Bundy is a terrible rancher and his cattle are feral. They aren't just feral, they're skeletal because he doesn't bother to feed them beyond letting them wander around endangered animal habitat. He whines that he need even more land to ignore his animals on and less than discounted fees or he'll shoot anyone who disagrees because that is his right as a "rancher". His sons got the same whiny "values" before going all on on nonsensical SovCit laws and starting a cult of personality. The Bundys are repulsive on all levels, but they have enough support as rich white men playing cowboy that they get off so easy. Geostomp has issued a correction as of 17:04 on Oct 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 15:06
|
|
|
If the Lord is a good shepherd, and Cliven Bundy is a bad cowboy, does that make Cliven Bundy the antichrist?
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 15:13
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:oh Jesus loving christ!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
Yall are getting balooganed
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 16:58
|
|
|
Juror #4 roleplay is a new and interesting one, thanks baloogan.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:10
|
|
|
xthetenth posted:Juror #4 roleplay is a new and interesting one, thanks baloogan. I wonder if we should have established rules and safewords before this kind of roleplay begins.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
Lol just lol if u think I know enough to roleplay any of the jurors
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Lol just lol if u think I know enough to roleplay any of the jurors Method acting is a legitimate form of acting.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Lol just lol if u think I know enough to roleplay any of the jurors *gets drunk in a shack in the middle of nowhere*
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
etalian posted:Also people don't realize that cattle are incredibility destructive to the land so the BLM fees are funding conservation and repair efforts for the land. A lot of this land is incredibly lovely too. The story that the feds stole it from the natives and have squatted on the ownership isn't entirely true. ALL of the land was up for grabs by whites. Plenty of them tried farming and failed. Or harvested all the easy timber, declared bankruptcy and abandoned the land. There are tons of ghost towns, farms, ranches, mines and logging operations smack in the middle of BLM and National Forest land because it was private property at one point. You just can't make enough of a living on it to justify owning it in perpetuity, and dealing with the long term taxes and liability.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
Baloogan posted:Lol just lol if u think I know enough to roleplay any of the jurors Generally if you post about a subject and don't know anything, it helps if you lead with that fact. Spending a day arguing with multiple people and then revealing you actually don't know a single thing seems like a very sad waste of time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:I was talking about Peter. Dude saw himself as the follower of Jewish Messiah and got into a bunch of slapfights with Paul, who was the one who really set Christianity on the road to becoming what it is now because he was all about converting gentiles. APAC (All Popes Are Catholic)
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:then revealing you actually don't know a single thing seems like a very sad waste of time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Beowulfs_Ghost posted:A lot of this land is incredibly lovely too. Like in economics, supply/demand is taught in 101 level courses. It's the basic building block, and most small government types never really advance beyond 'the government is bad', free markets, etc. It's not until like econ 104 that you get into the tragedy of the commons and the rise of the robber barons. Ignorance of history is also hallmark of the idiot conservative/libertarian/hillbilly/etc. Like the  comments all over the OPB facebook page about how the constitution prevents the government from owning more than 10 square miles of land, government overreach, etc, these people are willfully ignorant of 200 odd years of Supreme Court interpretations of the constitution.I like that Shawna Cox went from  THE JUDGE SHOULD BE JAILED BECAUSE I AM A BOAT to 'yup, perfectly legitimate court decision' purely because they were acquitted. They're like the most transparent type of hypocrite.Also I can tell Juror 4 really wants to come out as like the new face of the movement and get that 15 minutes of fame, but I think he knows he will be publicly shamed for the rest of his life.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:BLM fees are also cheap as gently caress compared to the rates of the Free Market®. It's basically a big subsidy given how eventually the taxpayer has to foot the bill for maintenance and conservation efforts to repair the damage cattle cause.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Let Juror #4 show himself. He seems like the kind of idiot who will just keep stepping in it and making it worse until even his supporters start to realize he's a deranged rear end in a top hat. Kind of like Zimmerman.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
how much is this whole BLM ranching thing a cowboy subsidy and how much is it Feeding America cause it sounds like these guys are loving failures at raising cows you can eat
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:how much is this whole BLM ranching thing a cowboy subsidy and how much is it Feeding America Basically none of it is feeding america and it would outright not exist if not for the subsidies because there is no longer a market for it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 20:41
|
|
|
A bit more background from one of the jurors. This is dumb. https://twitter.com/jjmacnab/status/792810126730072064
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
TotalLossBrain posted:A bit more background from one of the jurors. This is dumb. Holy poo poo those jurors were dumb.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:Let Juror #4 show himself. He seems like the kind of idiot who will just keep stepping in it and making it worse until even his supporters start to realize he's a deranged rear end in a top hat. Kind of like Zimmerman. in a twist of fate, he is zimmerman
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:22
|
|
|
This trial is a really good argument for why jurors need to meet some basic level of competence.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:This trial is a really good argument for why jurors need to meet some basic level of competence. Can't really be done- like the call for a juror rationale after the trial, it would be easily (and immediately) exploited. The reason nullification continues to float around like a turd in the legal punchbowl is that there's really no good way to prevent it that wouldn't destroy the jury system. The only real defense is better general civic education, prior checking, excluding it from the courtroom(with retrials etc when it's introduced, as should have happened here), and careful instruction.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
TotalLossBrain posted:A bit more background from one of the jurors. This is dumb. why am judge hate Are Freedoms  ???
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
You guys should probably listen to this. It's interviews with the defense attorneys, prosecutors, etc: https://soundcloud.com/thislandisourland/update-harney-county-tribes-conservationists-react-oct-29-2016
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 22:14
|
|
|
Jonny 290 posted:how much is this whole BLM ranching thing a cowboy subsidy and how much is it Feeding America It is a subsidy to play cowboy, just like we have subsidies to play corn farmer even though we have more corn than we know what to do with. It is the inevitable byproduct of the system that was laid down to give extra voice to empty rural states. It is ironic that even with more representation than the average American, people like the Bundy's feel like they aren't being heard. Even when guys like Cliven get subsidized grazing, and Ammon gets government loans when private banks would have let his business fail.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
Beowulfs_Ghost posted:It is a subsidy to play cowboy, just like we have subsidies to play corn farmer even though we have more corn than we know what to do with. You post like you don't think the Bundys are massive hypocrites and lunatics. On the jury issue, christ almighty, these people were dumb, and now i wait to see sovcits play their next cosplay sit in on fed property because to them this wasn't a case of idiot jurers, but the "TRIUMPH OF ARE CONSTITUTIONAL RIATS!"
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
exploding mummy posted:*gets drunk in a shack in the middle of nowhere* same
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 22:59
|
|
|
CrazyLittle posted:You guys should probably listen to this. It's interviews with the defense attorneys, prosecutors, etc: I haven't been able to tolerate the opb podcast coverage for most of its run- it gets too much wrong legally, often in the name of false balance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
Beowulfs_Ghost posted:A lot of this land is incredibly lovely too. Wasn't most of that land available free/cheap through homesteading? The homesteading program was finally abolished in 1976 because the remaining land wasn't viable for small family farms. With no roads, no water, and no services the available land just didn't make sense for a small farmer. LOL, according to the BLM only 40% of homesteaders were successful. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/res/Education_in_BLM/homestead_act/legacy/top_10.html
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:Wasn't most of that land available free/cheap through homesteading? The homesteading program was finally abolished in 1976 because the remaining land wasn't viable for small family farms. With no roads, no water, and no services the available land just didn't make sense for a small farmer. Yup. I live near a bunch of BLM and National Forest land, and even if they ran a bunch of roads and utilities to it, it would never prosper. There are just hard realities of climate and terrain that no amount of hand outs and deregulation will overcome. It isn't like people haven't tried for their chance at free land. On old USGS maps of eastern oregon you can find now abandoned research stations where the BLM tested crops that could be grown out there. It isn't like money hasn't been spent of trying to find something to make family farming work. Best that anyone could do is basically strip it of trees and minerals as a windfall. As a matter of fact, many places have already done that, and the money and jobs are all gone and never coming back. In the drier climates it just takes too long for commercialy worthwhile timber to regrow. It was at one point completely up for grabs. The stuff that is left is stuff no one is interested in owning long term. Anyone interested in merely turning a profit is happy with leasing timber, minerals, and grazing land. Personally, I am happy that much of it is just left as winderness.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:Generally if you post about a subject and don't know anything, it helps if you lead with that fact. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7SaR4-zn-o hey now i know the bare essentials
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
what are they charged with in nevada?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2016 05:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 04:26 |
|
|
TotalLossBrain posted:A bit more background from one of the jurors. This is dumb. They really were a jury of SovCits the whole time and somehow nobody managed to notice until they tanked the case?
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2016 05:53
|
|