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gfsincere posted:What you are however, is a person who really needs to shut up and listen to people about race because you're clearly talking out of your rear end. You have no clue about the destructive nature of racism, and since you'll never be on the receiving end of it, you drat sure aren't the arbiter of who is and isn't a racist and what racism looks like. Your opinion on who is a racist or not is worth about as much as a penny with a hole in it.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:51
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U-DO Burger posted:Good god this thread has dozens of posts every day that are basically "gently caress all Republicans forever" and I'm pretty sure most of those posters aren't quivering in uncontrollable rage as they post it, but switch "Republicans" to "racists" and suddenly we need to reprimand people about how that language isn't productive and to please stop getting so mad I think sometimes people use the word "republicans" to mean, instead of "gently caress all the people" just "gently caress the leadershi-- this thread posted:worrying about intent before content god drat IT
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Oct 31, 2016 07:52
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Majorian posted:Indeed: 
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Oct 31, 2016 07:52
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U-DO Burger posted:Good god this thread has dozens of posts every day that are basically "gently caress all Republicans forever" and I'm pretty sure most of those posters aren't quivering in uncontrollable rage as they post it, but switch "Republicans" to "racists" and suddenly we need to reprimand people about how that language isn't productive and to please stop getting so mad People don't even disagree with that, it's when you say people who aren't "that dude from Alabama that I've never met but sometimes see on the news" are racist that they get in a froth.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:52
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Mercrom posted:I looked up tone policing and apparently it's what you did to me. I agree it's bad. Every post you've made to me is disrespectful as gently caress. Don't come fuckin crying about me being mean now and try to trot out "no, YOURE the real racist here because" It's pathetic. Just own that you're an angry white man that's mad that you got called out on doing nothing but shitposting and adding literally zero to either discussion. HorseRenoir posted:This is why I'm not so mad about the alt-right becoming more prominent in mainstream politics. They're awful, but their awfulness is so open and indefensible that there's no way for people to hide the racism behind plausible deniability anymore. That's way less harmful than Reagan-style dogwhistle racism. No, this is actually even worse because now you're giving racism back legitimacy by giving them actual mainstream platforms so they no longer have to keep their KKK robes in the closet. Mercrom posted:Racism is not about actions at all it's about a state of mind. What makes an action racist is only one of two things, hate of, or ignorant generalization about a group of people. False as gently caress, but tell us more about this thing you will never experience and lacked even surface level knowledge of perpetuating until tonight.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:52
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Majorian posted:Indeed: Nah, not that one. This one: Admiral Ray posted:How can you say that about Ted Cruz look how cute he is:
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Oct 31, 2016 07:53
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I doubt there's going to be any serious violence on Election Day. It's the aftermath as the Iron Nan prepares to ascend her throne that worries me.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:53
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Ruggan posted:I don't remember being told that. He literally acknowledges that I'm black and the angry black stereotype 2 pages ago, but doesn't remember it. Also literally trots out the angry black man stereotype after me saying STOP IT in caps. I just got Letter from Birmingham Jail'd WhiteAmerica.txt
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Oct 31, 2016 07:55
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gfsincere posted:False as gently caress, but tell us more about this thing you will never experience and lacked even surface level knowledge of perpetuating until tonight. Legitimately trying to learn and understand your point of view here. Can you explain what your definition of racism is? From what you quoted you must understand that people have varying definitions and understanding the definition is key to having a productive discussion.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:55
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1stGear posted:I doubt there's going to be any serious violence on Election Day. It's the aftermath as the Iron Nan prepares to ascend her throne that worries me.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:55
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Admiral Ray posted:How can you say that about Ted Cruz look how cute he is: Look in the upper righthand corner. Even then, he was trouble.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:56
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Admiral Ray posted:I don't think this'll actually kill the GOP. I know I'm a minority in that view but I think people severely underestimate how long their base will last. I think he's done irreparable harm to the party, at least regarding the presidency, for the foreseeable future. From here on out, the Trump faction, those out and proud racists/sexists/anti PC folks will not tolerate another wishy washy insider, another Romney. From here on out they will not accept anyone who doesn't pass the Trump test, and I think this was the real reason Ted Cruz got behind Trump and hasn't backed out. He knows in 4 years he can claim the mantle of Trump, and anyone who doesn't get ordained by the trump side will go away like JEB! did. So problem 1 is they're all going to be clown car fighting from here on out to be the most Trump they can be, but at the same time, Trump himself couldn't win with his demographic. Problem 2 is even if they tear apart the primary process so only Romney's can get through, even boring ol' Mitt didn't have the numbers to win.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:56
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gfsincere posted:He literally acknowledges that I'm black and the angry black stereotype 2 pages ago, but doesn't remember it. Want to take this to PMs? I am really honestly not trying to trot out stereotypes or be intentionally forgetful but would rather not continue making GBS threads up this thread. I'm open to having a real honest discussion.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:56
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Mercrom posted:Even if this is true you would never get anywhere with civil rights if you declared minorities the only authority on the subject. Why should the average white person care about racism if they don't even understand it in addition to not being affected by it? I know this is gonna be hard for you, but it involves shutting the gently caress up and listening. Just like I as a guy do just that when women are talking about experiences I will never have to go through by virtue of being a man. So try shutting the gently caress up for a hot second, you might learn some poo poo. Or you can keep being an antagonistic fuckhead. Your choice really.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:57
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Ruggan posted:I'm just saying I can't really stand by your arguments because they seem to come from a hateful place. I don't think that's a good or healthy perspective to hold or agree with or stand by. I'm sure you're going to jump on this and explain why I'm wrong but I'd honestly like to hear it. Except that they, and their descendants, and the descendants of their descendants still haven't gotten that, and still get openly murdered in cold blood by actors of the state because of their skin color. So when one of those descendants says, "You know what? gently caress the Statue of Liberty" maybe it's kind of stupid and unhelpful to complain that their arguments are coming from a hateful place. Like seriously... Elvis was a hero to most / But he never meant poo poo to me you see. We aren't exactly treading on virgin ground here.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:59
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HorseRenoir posted:This is why I'm not so mad about the alt-right becoming more prominent in mainstream politics. They're awful, but their awfulness is so open and indefensible that there's no way for people to hide the racism behind plausible deniability anymore. That's way less harmful than Reagan-style dogwhistle racism. I think it's absolutely more harmful. It's refreshing in a "Wow I've been having chronic pain and to suddenly have it cranked up to a 10" sorta way. That only works if it's short and sweet with immediate relief. We won't get immediate relief from the legacy this election gives us. We'll get more militia terrorist activity and more intimidation and more voter suppression and on and on, especially with the stolen election story that's already being passed around. I'm not so worried about a giant attack like the Oklahoma bombings but I expect more of the overt racists to be more active and that's less than ideal.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:00
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Mercrom posted:Racism is not about actions at all it's about a state of mind. What makes an action racist is only one of two things, hate of, or ignorant generalization about a group of people. I can't describe racism to you, but I think part of it involves arbitrary, simplified assertions -- which could be one of the things the post above is making.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:00
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Ruggan posted:Want to take this to PMs? I am really honestly not trying to trot out stereotypes or be intentionally forgetful but would rather not continue making GBS threads up this thread. I'm open to having a real honest discussion. Lol no. You have a lot more educating of yourself on race before you're prepared for a discussion with me about it. I'm not interested in going over the ABCs of racism. Put in the minimum effort before you ask me to hold your hand. You're on the internet, the information you seek is a google search away.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:01
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gfsincere posted:No, this is actually even worse because now you're giving racism back legitimacy by giving them actual mainstream platforms so they no longer have to keep their KKK robes in the closet. Racism has a legitimate mainstream platform, it's called the Republican Party. Most whites are cool with racist policies but not cool with overtly racist iconography, or being associated with capital R racists (hence why Donald Trump is running for president but David Duke is still persona non grata). Taking advantage of that split might eventually make some closet racists more comfortable with taking the KKK robes out of the closet, but by the time that happens demographic changes will have taken their toll and it will be too late for them.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:03
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Admiral Ray posted:I think it's absolutely more harmful. It's refreshing in a "Wow I've been having chronic pain and to suddenly have it cranked up to a 10" sorta way. That only works if it's short and sweet with immediate relief. We won't get immediate relief from the legacy this election gives us. We'll get more militia terrorist activity and more intimidation and more voter suppression and on and on, especially with the stolen election story that's already being passed around. I'm not so worried about a giant attack like the Oklahoma bombings but I expect more of the overt racists to be more active and that's less than ideal.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:07
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Potato Salad posted:I can't describe racism to you, but I think part of it involves arbitrary, simplified assertions -- which could be one of the things the post above is making. gfsincere posted:I know this is gonna be hard for you, but it involves shutting the gently caress up and listening. Not that I have to. There are countless actual facts and statistics that could propel and help the fight against racism for centuries. You complaining about being being offended because people are mean to you on the internet just makes people tired.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:08
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Mercrom posted:You complaining about being being offended because people are mean to you on the internet just makes people tired. 
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Oct 31, 2016 08:10
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idiotsavant posted:Statue of Liberty. Pretty uplifting symbol, right? The New Colossus. Incredibly uplifting poem. Like, holy cow those are powerful, powerful words that never fail to send a chill down my spine. And yet there are still many, many Americans still alive today who were shot with fire hoses, attacked by police dogs, knew other Americans who were lynched, because they wanted the same rights as every other American. Okay, that's fair. I understand and can empathize with that perspective. At the same time it leaves me wondering, where do I fit in? How can I conduct my life in a way that is conducive to allowing everyone access to the same liberties that I have? And what can I do within reason that I'm not instantly perceived as part of the problem by association? I want everyone to be treated equally, and I'm coming into this without all the wounds that many of the other participants in the discussion have. Why does not wanting to be caught in their lashing out make me a problem? gfsincere posted:Lol no. You have a lot more educating of yourself on race before you're prepared for a discussion with me about it. I'm not interested in going over the ABCs of racism. Put in the minimum effort before you ask me to hold your hand. You're on the internet, the information you seek is a google search away. It's just a little sad, you know? Like I'm trying to do my best to reach out, be understanding, express that I'm open to learning. I hope you believe that.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:11
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MrBuddyLee posted:I wish Trump would grope this thread. I'm not impressed with them taking this long to reach that conclusion, but hey, anything that helps ensure 992 more years of liberal darkness.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:11
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I'm really disappointed that McCain didn't get the loser stink from the 2008 general election and fade from relevancy. He deserves it.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:14
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gfsincere posted:Just like I as a guy do just that when women are talking about experiences I will never have to go through by virtue of being a man.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:15
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Mercrom posted:Yeah sorry I forgot racism was a feeling that can only be expressed through song. The fact that you think I'm offended because people were just being "mean" shows that you have no desire to stop being a racist prick and think that that's okay "as long as the person is an rear end in a top hat". Dude, you really are a piece of poo poo. Like, log off and go get help before you hurt someone or get hurt. You are not on the right side of history and have pretty much outed yourself as a shithead. None of the black posters here will take you seriously and will regard you as a shithead as well because get this: you're not the first angry white guy to react exactly like this and you won't be the last, and we know you don't give a poo poo about anyone but yourself.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:16
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The key to D&Ding is starting off with the assumption that everybody is a piece of poo poo and through not posting like a moron can they finally be separated into the not piece of poo poo category. Though since I rarely remember names or avatars the categorization is a bit moot.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:16
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Squeegy posted:I'm really disappointed that McCain didn't get the loser stink from the 2008 general election and fade from relevancy. He deserves it. I mean, he kind of did, if you think about it. If an ascendant outsider politician had pulled the "he's not a real hero because he got captured" poo poo nine years ago during the primary, that would have probably been the end of him or her.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:19
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Ruggan posted:Okay, that's fair. I understand and can empathize with that perspective. At the same time it leaves me wondering, where do I fit in? How can I conduct my life in a way that is conducive to allowing everyone access to the same liberties that I have? And what can I do within reason that I'm not instantly perceived as part of the problem by association? Faith without works is dead. I feel like that's written in some book somewhere. I know it's a book a lot of people say they've read. idiotsavant posted:Oh man, the best (not the best at all) is when women of color share their experiences in feminist threads and get shut down so loving hard. When someone who IDs as feminist is callled out for pulling some racist stuff... hoooooo boy. Well that's because white feminism still hasn't addressed the fact that it was never intended for WoC from the very very beginning. Women's suffrage in the US was bolstered and supported by the KKK which had over a million members at that time.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:19
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Majorian posted:I mean, he kind of did, if you think about it. If an ascendant outsider politician had pulled the "he's not a real hero because he got captured" poo poo nine years ago during the primary, that would have probably been the end of him or her. No, that bounced off him because he's Trump, not because McCain is a loser nobody.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:20
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Ruggan posted:
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Oct 31, 2016 08:22
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gfsincere posted:Well that's because white feminism still hasn't addressed the fact that it was never intended for WoC from the very very beginning. Women's suffrage in the US was bolstered and supported by the KKK which had over a million members at that time. Prohibition makes strange bedfellows. Or maybe not so strange.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:24
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Squeegy posted:No, that bounced off him because he's Trump, not because McCain is a loser nobody. I honestly think it's both. I think McCain's "shield" was severely diminished by that point.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:24
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Remember how Obama appointing a Republican to head the FBI came around to bite the Democrats in the rear end, and how hopeful you were that Clinton would avoid those hollow displays of bipartisanship? Well, you'll be You might argue just because some random Clinton supporter emailed Podesta about their pick for the SC nod, it doesn't mean that's who Clinton will nominate, but this if from one of the DNC's biggest backers.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:24
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gfsincere posted:Faith without works is dead. Yeah. How we live our life demonstrates what we truly believe. I get it. LunarShadow posted:You are doing the equivalent of asking for a conversation on the finer points of literature while at the same time being barely literate. And that is what you are getting called out for, as it's not gfsincere's or any other black person's responsibility to explain to you the absolute basics of the racial issues that surround being black in America. Add to that you are proving to be the absolute poster child of white fragility, what with getting pissy cause people called you out for being more concerned with whatever magical ~intent~ those two women had in their racist as gently caress Halloween costumes than you were for the fact they were being racist poo poo-heels. You can say you are sincere all you goddamn please, but the way you are responding shows no willingness to learn, cause if you were it would just be a simple mea culpa then sitting down, shutting the gently caress up, and actually listening to what is being said. Eh, I'm not mad or pissy. Trying to listen. Not his responsibility, but since he seems passionate I thought he'd have motivation to do so. Going to stop posting soon anyway. If you want to share anything with me that you recommend I read I will in good faith do it before I go to sleep. Quickly let me amend that. Came into the thread less serious than I am now. Argued semantics for fun. Don't disagree that those girls did something racist. Got to a point where I was genuinely interested in a deeper understanding of his frustration. You can call it ignorance if you want and I won't fully deny it, but like I said I'm willing to put effort in to learn. Telling me to shut up and sit down isn't very productive in this case, I don't think. Ruggan fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 08:25
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Ruggan posted:Okay, that's fair. I understand and can empathize with that perspective. At the same time it leaves me wondering, where do I fit in? How can I conduct my life in a way that is conducive to allowing everyone access to the same liberties that I have? And what can I do within reason that I'm not instantly perceived as part of the problem by association? I don't think that's fair. My dad has been trying to push that same lefty propaganda on me my whole life. The principles of equality that exist in the US, outside of the slavery and jim crow, that white people also died to change, are bigger than just symbolys to be misinterpreted by reactionary assholes. And you can't conduct your life in a way some people will be happy with. It's only their interpretation of history, that often doesn't reflect statistical facts that matters. So if you say slavery was committed by a minority of whites and all societies engaged in it, they say you are uneducated and racist, even though that is factually correct. If you say racism is not mainstream or that black culture has faults of its own to overcome, it's your fault for being descended from white people that it got way. There are absolutely racist issues in the US but the way hardcore liberals approach it is counterproductive. They think welfare and laws that favour minorities over whites are the only resolution, and if you question that you are racist for seeing the inherit injustice of laws like that. And how most welfare is just a prolongation of keeping people subservient, and not about giving people skills or a mentality to get out of wherever, black or white. hexenmexen fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 08:26
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Euphoriaphone posted:Remember how Obama appointing a Republican to head the FBI came around to bite the Democrats in the rear end, and how hopeful you were that Clinton would avoid those hollow displays of bipartisanship? Well, you'll be So Clinton didn't say that at all then?
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Oct 31, 2016 08:26
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Oct 31, 2016 08:26
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Ruggan posted:Okay, that's fair. I understand and can empathize with that perspective. At the same time it leaves me wondering, where do I fit in? How can I conduct my life in a way that is conducive to allowing everyone access to the same liberties that I have? And what can I do within reason that I'm not instantly perceived as part of the problem by association? OK, so I'll have a go at an effortpost. 1. Do your own homework on -isms. Don't expect people who are one the receiving end of racism, sexism, etc to have to bear the burden of educating the people on the giving end. 2. Understand that you benefit from a system of privilege founded on prejudice, that your voice is already amplified, and your perspectives given greater weight than people further down the privilege scale than you. http://www.ucalgary.ca/cared/whiteness 3. From 2, do your best to shut up and listen to what people further down the privilege scale from you have to say, without getting defensive. White fragility is real; work against it. http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race 4. Tone policing is also real, and is another way that privilege and prejudice are reinforced. Don't do that either. http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/
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