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TCM sounds like bullshit even by homeopathic standards. How is it treated by the authorities?Outrail posted:Also use for coke nail. haha what, even if you get 'stabbed' that's a minor annoyance at worst
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Oct 31, 2016 08:05
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Phlegmish posted:TCM sounds like bullshit even by homeopathic standards. How is it treated by the authorities? EDIT: It can be further broken down into "Mah kulchure" and "Chinese are different than the rest of the world, you don't understand. Your foreign medicine works better for you than for us and that is because Chines are different. No, it has nothing to do with us prescribing everything wrongly and in insane amounts, and having no knowledge how to use this medicine in the first place." Haier fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 09:02
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Don't forget "Western medicine is fast but has side effects (because it does things) while TCM is slow but has no side effects! (because it doesn't do anything)"
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Oct 31, 2016 09:12
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Really "western medicine" should just be loving called "medicine."
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Oct 31, 2016 09:13
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Fojar38 posted:Don't forget "Western medicine is fast but has side effects (because it does things) while TCM is slow but has no side effects! (because it doesn't do anything)" Or "western medicine only treats symptoms while tcm treats the whole body"
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Oct 31, 2016 09:15
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Operation was a success and the patient died!
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Oct 31, 2016 09:42
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Gorilla Salad posted:overseas interests. RACIST! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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Oct 31, 2016 10:13
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I'm allergic to some common TCM ingredients.  The common rabbit poop lookin' pill for an upset stomach smells like bbq sauce puke. It is so bad.
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Oct 31, 2016 12:41
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peanut posted:I'm allergic to some common TCM ingredients. I got prescribed a bag of these for a sinus infection. It was a very painful time.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:17
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where are you getting TMC in japan?
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Oct 31, 2016 13:18
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Fojar38 posted:Really "western medicine" should just be loving called "medicine." My brother's a doctor and his quip is always "If alternative medicine was proven to work we'd just call it medicine".
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Oct 31, 2016 13:23
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Dicky mouse posted:where are you getting TMC in japan? No.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:24
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It's called 漢方医学
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Oct 31, 2016 13:42
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webmeister posted:My brother's a doctor and his quip is always "If alternative medicine was proven to work we'd just call it medicine". I think that's a Tim Minchin line.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:49
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Haier posted:POLARIZING OPINION TIME: "Pizza pie"
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Oct 31, 2016 13:52
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Dicky mouse posted:where are you getting TMC in japan? There's a TCM pharmacy on every corner in Japan and Korea.
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Oct 31, 2016 13:56
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:No one here is a real doctor. I think soneone posted in one of the old threads that only 17% of the doctors here actually have a medical degree. When I used to teach the medical PhDs most of them where already working as oncologists, surgeons, etc... Person: "Nice to meet you. What's your job?" Doctor: "I'm a doctor. I went to medical school for it." Person: "Was that difficult?" Doctor: "Yes, and it took several years and a lot of time and effort." Person: "Why would you do that? Did you know you can get a doctor degree on the internet? You could learn Traditional Chinese Medicine and be a doctor in a few months. You really wasted your time." Doctor: "I know, but I am not that kind of doctor. I am what you call a 'Western doctor.' It's not so easy as you think, and you can't just pass one exam on paper and be a doctor" Person: "You're really stupid. You could have been making money a long time ago. Anyone can be a doctor, you don't know anything." Doctor: "Ugh..." *Emigrates to Singapore* Since the average person here doesn't really differentiate between any of the types of medicine, and the doctors in hospitals are just there to squeeze as much money out of patients as possible, I just know in my heart this conversation happened somewhere in this broad smog-soaked land.
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Oct 31, 2016 14:02
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webmeister posted:My brother's a doctor and his quip is always "If alternative medicine was proven to work we'd just call it medicine". Gargamel Gibson posted:I think that's a Tim Minchin line. It's a pretty popular and true saying. True though. Chinaman says magic Ma Huang herb wakes you up and is good for asthma. Now we grind that poo poo up and make amphetamines out of it.
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Oct 31, 2016 14:42
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Haier posted:I was thinking about this again and I've met many people who said they used to be doctors but stopped because the money was really bad and nobody gave a poo poo. I just imagine being an actual doctor in China goes like this: It was a big adjustment for my wife when she had to go to the doctor for a persistent throat issue (about a week of having a sore throat) a year after coming to Canada. She met with a Nurse practitioner who took a swab and asked her to come back the next week. She didn't prescribe her anything, but she said that if taking lozenges helped, then she should continue doing that or try drinking something soothing like a honey tea. A week later her throat was still acting up and the swab came back negative. She saw the doctor this time and he felt around her neck, didn't note any swelling around the glands, and scheduled an X-ray. Three days later she had an x-ray and nothing of note showed up, and the day after she started to feel better. The doctor told her there was probably a slight infection or low-level inflammation that they didn't pick up that ran its course. This was unacceptable, and my wife decided that Canadian doctors were not as good as Chinese doctors, because a Chinese doctor will look at you for 10 seconds and then tell you exactly what is wrong with you and prescribe what you need. After another year she started to see the light (due to talking with her mom about her sleep issues, and what Chinese doctors were telling her (basically she saw about 4 doctors, and all of them gave her a different reason why she couldn't sleep, and prescribed a different feed-bag full of random pills). When she came to Canada she ran out of sleeping pills a week after being here and inquired about getting more at the pharmacy. I told her that her sleeping issues were stress related, because everything at home was stressful, and to just have a glass of wine before going to bed. A week later she was able to nap during the day and have a full night's sleep, something she had not been able to do for a very long time. My wife now understands that Chinese medicine is basically all smoke and mirrors, and that real doctors don't prescribe a patient antibiotics, steroids, vitamin supplements, painkillers, and 10 kinds of random herbal pills just because they have an upset stomach or a cold, and that every medication has specific instructions that are more complex than, "take one of every one of these 13 different pills I gave you twice a day until you feel better". Gargamel Gibson posted:I think that's a Tim Minchin line. I think James Randi has been saying that well before Tim Michin, and doctors have been saying it before well before Randi.
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Oct 31, 2016 14:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj-7luu8F-Y Aha, Huo Liao, and I guess actually you're on fire quite a bit longer than 5 seconds
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Oct 31, 2016 16:28
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Haier posted:It is supported by the government since modern TCM was created during the cultural revolution when people realized that killing all of the doctors and closing all houses of education was kind of dumb. People still needed treatment for their problems, even it's all placebo (or harmful) garbage. It's all made-up mumbo jumbo on a dangerous level. Also, they never did get their doctors or houses of education running smoothly again after that. I'm a bit surprised by that, for all its flaws I had the Chinese government pegged as being mostly rational and pragmatic. I know they're only mildly concerned with the well-being of their citizens, but I thought maybe they'd crack down on it as being internationally embarrassing, the way they had that campaign to keep Chinese tourists from making GBS threads in the street in foreign countries. I don't really see how condoning this TCM bullshit benefits them. e: maybe to promote a sense of Chinese exceptionalism?
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Oct 31, 2016 16:58
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Phlegmish posted:I'm a bit surprised by that, for all its flaws I had the Chinese government pegged as being mostly rational and pragmatic. I know they're only mildly concerned with the well-being of their citizens, but I thought maybe they'd crack down on it as being internationally embarrassing, the way they had that campaign to keep Chinese tourists from making GBS threads in the street in foreign countries. I don't really see how condoning this TCM bullshit benefits them. They don't have the capacity for real medicine, and fake medicine is better than none at all (in terms of making people feel good).
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Oct 31, 2016 17:02
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Phlegmish posted:I'm a bit surprised by that, for all its flaws I had the Chinese government pegged as being mostly rational and pragmatic. I know they're only mildly concerned with the well-being of their citizens, but I thought maybe they'd crack down on it as being internationally embarrassing, the way they had that campaign to keep Chinese tourists from making GBS threads in the street in foreign countries. I don't really see how condoning this TCM bullshit benefits them. Cheap fake medicine handed out by convincing quacks makes people feel like they're being cared for. People hate going to a doctor and being told just to go home and rest, they want a treatment, they want a pill to fix them even if the pill does nothing or makes them worse. Also a real medical system is expensive and requires generations of clinical scientific medical culture within your society. What would cause china to lose face is to admit TCM is bullshit. They are very proud of it and very proud to export it. There's TCM schools and clinics and shops all over my Canadian town and lots of fuckidiot white people who go there because TCM is natural and has been proven to work over 5,000 years while BIG PHARMA is just pushing who knows what dangerous chemicals on you.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:11
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I'm cool with TCM fleecing idiots in Canada, but it's sad as gently caress when they do it in Africa to people who desperately need real medicine but can't afford it.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:35
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Phlegmish posted:I'm a bit surprised by that, for all its flaws I had the Chinese government pegged as being mostly rational and pragmatic. I know they're only mildly concerned with the well-being of their citizens, but I thought maybe they'd crack down on it as being internationally embarrassing, the way they had that campaign to keep Chinese tourists from making GBS threads in the street in foreign countries. I don't really see how condoning this TCM bullshit benefits them. It's only an embarrassment among a tiny minority of science minded people; for huge swathes of the world it's aggressively exported and marketed. The situation in parts of Africa is especially great, where you have people now dying of easily preventable diseases for Chinese profits.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:37
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P-Mack posted:I'm cool with TCM fleecing idiots in Canada, but it's sad as gently caress when they do it in Africa to people who desperately need real medicine but can't afford it. The problem is that (like Chiropractors) they begin to gain traction, make money, and before you know it they have amassed enough wealth to buy legitimacy. The next step is that TCM starts to be accepted by healthcare plans and insurance companies (because it is cheaper than actual treatment) and the government, and before you know it Provincial and Federal money starts going to support it. Given that there is only so much taxpayer money allocated to healthcare, TCM begins to start eating a larger and larger percentage of that money, depriving actual medicine from getting as much. The idea that I'm actually paying for TCM (and a whole host of other quack practices) is not something I enjoy.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:49
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Blistex posted:This was unacceptable, and my wife decided that Canadian doctors were not as good as Chinese doctors, because a Chinese doctor will look at you for 10 seconds and then tell you exactly what is wrong with you and prescribe what you need. Did she try melatonin? 10mg does the trick. P-Mack posted:I'm cool with TCM fleecing idiots in Canada, but it's sad as gently caress when they do it in Africa to people who desperately need real medicine but can't afford it.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:18
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NSFW https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriO9dfdQJQA27DmE/giphy-downsized-large.gif
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Oct 31, 2016 18:19
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My instincts tell me this one was not staged.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:29
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Phlegmish posted:haha what, even if you get 'stabbed' that's a minor annoyance at worst I guess it's useful to go for the eyes? P-Mack posted:I'm cool with TCM fleecing idiots in Canada, but it's sad as gently caress when they do it in Africa to people who desperately need real medicine but can't afford it. That's shortsighted, quackery being legitimized in the West means it's much easier for it to infect everywhere else.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:35
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pass your driving exam with this one weird trick
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Oct 31, 2016 19:15
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That argument by homoepathy supporters that actual medicine and pharmacy is just business and after your money and therefore cannot be trusted makes my hair stand when I think about that homeopathy poo poo with +20.000 times diluted something, which is basically just sugar or water. It's loving expensive too. I worked at an ISP and every now and then one of these shithead companies would call in from the rear end-end of nowhere with a premium account and the highest SLA. That kind that costs a couple of thousand € each month, and that wasn't even a mid tier companies. Just small no name businesses.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:29
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Phlegmish posted:haha what, even if you get 'stabbed' that's a minor annoyance at worst Fingernails are dirty, and long useless fingernails are even dirtier. That cut is definitely going to get infected.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:39
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JaucheCharly posted:That argument by homoepathy supporters that actual medicine and pharmacy is just business and after your money and therefore cannot be trusted makes my hair stand when I think about that homeopathy poo poo with +20.000 times diluted something, which is basically just sugar or water. It's loving expensive too. The argument I usually bring up when someone says, "Doctors only care about making money, that's why I go with homeopathy" is that a doctor in a hospital can see one patient a day, or 100, and still makes the same money. He can fill out 300 prescriptions in a day, or none, and still walk away with the same pay. So why is it that the hippy in the snake-oil store, who literally depends on pushing treatments to stay in business more trustworthy? They will also occasionally talk about how doctors don't want to cure people, they just want to milk them for money, and the same argument stands. Then again, the first step to winning an argument with these kinds of people is to never engage them in a conversation. You can't reason with that kind of stupid.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:27
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Deceitful Penguin posted:It makes money, shitloads of money and so the party is in favour of it. Despite my lolling at this thread I actually have nothing against China, but that'd disgusting. There should be a campaign or something against that
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Oct 31, 2016 21:23
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Blistex posted:is that a doctor in a hospital can see one patient a day, or 100, and still makes the same money. He can fill out 300 prescriptions in a day, or none, and still walk away with the same pay. 
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Oct 31, 2016 21:30
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Blistex posted:The argument I usually bring up when someone says, "Doctors only care about making money, that's why I go with homeopathy" is that a doctor in a hospital can see one patient a day, or 100, and still makes the same money. He can fill out 300 prescriptions in a day, or none, and still walk away with the same pay. So why is it that the hippy in the snake-oil store, who literally depends on pushing treatments to stay in business more trustworthy? They will also occasionally talk about how doctors don't want to cure people, they just want to milk them for money, and the same argument stands. Most GP doctors in Canada get paid on a fee-for-service basis, so they definitely get paid more based on the number of patients they treat.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:52
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McGavin posted:Most GP doctors in Canada get paid on a fee-for-service basis, so they definitely get paid more based on the number of patients they treat. <shhhh> They don't know that!
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Oct 31, 2016 22:13
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However, a consult is a service. Whether they walk out with a prescription or not is irrelevant to the doctor's fees.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:46
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Ceciltron posted:However, a consult is a service. Whether they walk out with a prescription or not is irrelevant to the doctor's fees. There was a thing (not quite a scandal) where there were complaints that some doctors were charging for more 15 minute appointments than there are in a workday. Like they'd work 8 hours but somehow mysteriously have 11 hours of appointments in that time. And the doctors were all "yeah, sometimes it doesn't take the full 15 minutes, whatever". And other guys were "Nuh-uh, you're double booking, which means if ppl did need the full 15 minutes you'd be rushing them out in 10 just so you could get through all the appointments you booked!" And some people wanted the maximum number of consultations that they can charge for per day to be capped. Dunno whatever happened with that. See americans, we have problems in our healthcare system too! 
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Nov 1, 2016 01:40
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