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I want more segments calling out racist white liberals. Edit: and "concerned parents"
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Oct 31, 2016 16:27
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tarlibone posted:Depends on where you are. What we desperately need is to get away from having schools primarily funded by local taxes. Desegregation might be a slightly easier sell if parents could be assured of a respectable education for their kids wherever they may go. quote:I think the bigger thing, though, is that it's easy (nowadays, at any rate) to criticize de jure segregation. How come it's illegal for black kids to go to Shiny Happy People Holding Hands High? That's wrong. But it's very easy to shrug off segregation that exists because Area A is 100% black and Area B is 100% white, and so the schools in those districts just happen to reflect the racial makeup of their locales. After all, in a small rural school in a tiny town in Iowa where there are no black kids, you don't expect to see black kids in school, do you? That appears to be the case for quite a few issues - people seem to have trouble grasping the idea that passing a law saying "no giving or taking legal rights on account of race/gender/religion/sexuality/etc." does not automatically mean "problem solved". Either they're looking for any excuse to avoid helping people in a manner potentially inconvenient to them, or they're as clueless about how the real world works as the people who thought Prohibition was a good idea.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:41
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I hate how disingenuous John Oliver is at the beginning of every episode with his dumb, disingenuous schpeil about how he doesn't want to bring up the 2016 election again. This time it was particularly bad because after all that buildup, there was...Clinton emails about a topic which is no longer relevant but was all over the news at the time? What a non-story.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:I hate how disingenuous John Oliver is at the beginning of every episode with his dumb, disingenuous schpeil about how he doesn't want to bring up the 2016 election again. This time it was particularly bad because after all that buildup, there was...Clinton emails about a topic which is no longer relevant but was all over the news at the time? What a non-story. That was kind of the point, though. It absolutely is a non-story that Comey entirely created by sending a letter that broke FBI protocol, and it exploded over the news because there has been a quiet spell for scandals after the third debate. There's really nothing to cover, but you have to because it's everywhere and might actually affect the election.
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Oct 31, 2016 19:31
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tarlibone posted:Depends on where you are. I completely agree. As touched on the segment, there are pockets of the nation that are combating this. Hell even Seattle, the white liberal poster child, passed legislation of equal representation in schools (that was unfortunately overturn in the state court I believe). But on average, the topic is very rarely brought up, especially at a national stage. I haven't heard any presidential candidate or even senator bring the topic up (though there could be one that I missed).
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Oct 31, 2016 20:12
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The media also has its fair share of blame for segregated schools if you consider the climate of fear about the black "super predators" that they were pushing on the unwary public.
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Oct 31, 2016 20:42
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That "school swap" thing has been done in a few different places and the overwhelming takeaway is that it isn't positive for the kids on either side. I was listening to a podcast about a school swap a while back, and some the black students who visited the white school were pretty much in tears because they were so upset seeing all this great stuff that they'd never have a chance to utilize. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles
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Oct 31, 2016 22:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:I hate how disingenuous John Oliver is at the beginning of every episode with his dumb, disingenuous schpeil about how he doesn't want to bring up the 2016 election again. This time it was particularly bad because after all that buildup, there was...Clinton emails about a topic which is no longer relevant but was all over the news at the time? What a non-story. I felt the same way, but it was more because he's only going to get to talk about this trainwreck of an election twice more before it happens (and then I imagine there will be plenty of aftermath stories in the coming weeks and months). So I don't need the hand wringing. This is the big story in the US and of course it's not going to die down less than 2 weeks before the election. I don't need the big song and dance about how he totally thought he'd be able to avoid talking about it this week. We all know that was going to be impossible, just like it will be impossible next week.
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Oct 31, 2016 23:34
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SlothfulCobra posted:I hate how disingenuous John Oliver is at the beginning of every episode with his dumb, disingenuous schpeil about how he doesn't want to bring up the 2016 election again. This time it was particularly bad because after all that buildup, there was...Clinton emails about a topic which is no longer relevant but was all over the news at the time? What a non-story. As dumb as it is, I wished he weighed in much earlier in the primaries; granted we would've had the same outcome anyway.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:01
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Echo Chamber posted:As dumb as it is, I wished he weighed in much earlier in the primaries; granted we would've had the same outcome anyway. "Oh boy, I hope the Fox News crowd is tuning into my funnily-serious news mockumentary show despite the fact that it's hosted by a ferigner."
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Nov 1, 2016 00:35
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All these types of shows are basically pointless anyway since noone is switching camps
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Nov 1, 2016 00:38
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Is this the issue that Sam Bee and her husband campaigned against in New York? Some Daily show alum beef http://www.slate.com/blogs/schooled/2016/06/17/the_upper_west_side_is_new_york_s_latest_school_integration_battleground.html
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Nov 1, 2016 01:10
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coyo7e posted:That "school swap" thing has been done in a few different places and the overwhelming takeaway is that it isn't positive for the kids on either side. I was listening to a podcast about a school swap a while back, and some the black students who visited the white school were pretty much in tears because they were so upset seeing all this great stuff that they'd never have a chance to utilize. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles You listed to that wrong you bafoon. Veskit fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 01:31
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Here's a2 part series that had everything we just talked about and not over small story that makes it seem like this site zero good to desegregate schools http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/562/the-problem-we-all-live-with
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Nov 1, 2016 01:37
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Lurks Morington posted:Is this the issue that Sam Bee and her husband campaigned against in New York? Some Daily show alum beef But I highly doubt there's a beef going on between them and Oliver. The Daily Show family seems to be on good terms.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:47
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coyo7e posted:That "school swap" thing has been done in a few different places and the overwhelming takeaway is that it isn't positive for the kids on either side. I was listening to a podcast about a school swap a while back, and some the black students who visited the white school were pretty much in tears because they were so upset seeing all this great stuff that they'd never have a chance to utilize. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles Didn't listen to the podcast but it seems kind of sad that kids would be up in tears over not having the latest iMacs for their computer labs or whatever.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:52
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Rated PG-34 posted:Didn't listen to the podcast but it seems kind of sad that kids would be up in tears over not having the latest iMacs for their computer labs or whatever. Think it might have more to do with realizing the inherent truths behind the mostly white schools having those things and the mostly black schools not having them, and what those truths probably mean for the rest of their lives.
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Nov 1, 2016 02:20
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Lurks Morington posted:Is this the issue that Sam Bee and her husband campaigned against in New York? Some Daily show alum beef Yep and it really shows you just how lovely people they are because the only time you'd be telling your side not to talk to the press is when you know your side is the one doing something extremely lovely.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:25
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Veskit posted:Here's a2 part series that had everything we just talked about and not over small story that makes it seem like this site zero good to desegregate schools
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Nov 1, 2016 05:29
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Love Crime posted:Yep and it really shows you just how lovely people they are because the only time you'd be telling your side not to talk to the press is when you know your side is the one doing something extremely lovely. I really hope that these faux leftists get exposed in the future of politics. Maybe things will be hopeful with a more minority based generation.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:40
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You know, it's weird. I went to school in Plano, and the schools had some segregation issues. The west side senior school was almost entirely white because it was served by some of the wealthiest people in any metroplex suburb, but the most diverse school (the east side senior high and its feeder shcools) had the best grades, an IB program, and had the best marks in the system. It was also the least violent. You'd hear about rich white lame-asses beating eachother within inches of their lives on the west side, and as soon as their parents posted bail they'd go score some heroin and accidentally OD. The funny thing is, the west side was famously a shithole of racist WASPs, but I'd argue the diversity of the east side schooling system was a huge factor in opening up kids minds, exposing them to new ideas, and gently caress dude it was as close to paradise as you could get in a loving school. I wish it was the 2008-2009 school year again because I would so much rather be there than where I am right now. It's funny to me seeing these wackjob white parents scared to death of the darkies shanking their precious baby because a little diversity might actually help him grow as a person.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:43
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you "heard about rich white lameasses" beating each other into a pulp? LOL if you thought that was true, those kids are way too interested in not hurting their faces.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:48
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coyo7e posted:you "heard about rich white lameasses" beating each other into a pulp? LOL if you thought that was true, those kids are way too interested in not hurting their faces. I had friends on that side of town, witnessing it. It wasn't highschool gossip. It was my friend saying Chadwick said the wrong thing to Brayden and had his head stomped over a curb.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:57
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I was in elementary school desegregation in Baltimore Maryland in the late-60s, and as a middle-class white kid being bused to Cherry Hill it scared the living poo poo out of my parents but us kids were fine with it.
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Nov 1, 2016 07:44
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That video of the little girl saying the drawing of the white girl was good because it looked like her and the drawing of the black girl was bad because she was dark was a goddamned gutpunch.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:22
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I agree with a lot of what he's saying on this piece but I think it's a little bit lovely to call the parent selfish. I don't blame the guy at all for being upset his child is being denied the absolute best schooling she can get and no one should compromise on that, regardless if they're white or black or minority or whatnot. He also found a pretty lame case in this argument on selfishness to substantiate his point when this parent left the state. I don't blame a parent that becomes angry their kid was rejected because they exceed a quota.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:41
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Servaetes posted:I agree with a lot of what he's saying on this piece but I think it's a little bit lovely to call the parent selfish. I don't blame the guy at all for being upset his child is being denied the absolute best schooling she can get and no one should compromise on that, regardless if they're white or black or minority or whatnot. He also found a pretty lame case in this argument on selfishness to substantiate his point when this parent left the state. I don't blame a parent that becomes angry their kid was rejected because they exceed a quota. I do, gently caress them. The more you buck this system where you don't help the disadvantaged the worse the experience is for the disadvantaged. It's so god drat selfish to put everything above everyone for your children. At no point does any reasonable parent go "jeeze, this bus system that we're using is absurdly expensive, why don't we just make all kids walk to school like mine because we happen to live so close and instead put it toward my child's education!". There's a point of reasonableness that you have to consider. Side note, I got a metric ton of poo poo from white people because I happen to have above average grades, and received a full ride to school for a year because I was black. The problem was I went to school, a good one mind you, that had a 3% black population for the program. Not only that, black people included foreign nationals, which probably were at least half of the black population in the program. Going by that logic my school had a bigger native population than american black population. Also gently caress Abigail Fisher but even more so Edward Blum, her lawyer who is a terrible horrific person (side rant). Here's a list of things he's done to gently caress black people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Vera - weakened the equal voting rights act by removing racial gerrymandering (thanks douche) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_County_v._Holder - the one where he made it so you don't need federal preclearance to change your voting laws because, " is unconstitutional because the coverage formula is based on data over 40 years old, making it no longer responsive to current needs and therefore an impermissible burden on the constitutional principles of federalism and equal sovereignty of the states." IE, black people got an advantage for 40 years, they're goo dnow we're good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evenwel_v._Abbott He also tried to say that only eligible voters should be used for redistricting, meaning if you jailed enough black people, they couldn't vote thus you could delude the voting power via gerrymandering. What i'm getting that is yeah I hear you you want the best for your kid but there's a loving WAR out there and we're losing so really think about that when Tommy wants to have ipads AND computers in the classroom.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:41
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The only anecdote I can add to the subject from personal experience is that I went to public school in one of the better-off immigrant/children-of-immigrants suburbs in central New Jersey that has a very strong reputation for being diverse (with its huge Indian and asian population); and it probably helped a lot in making my classmates and facebook friends at least conventionally tolerant and liberal. And the schools themselves have a strong reputation for being good. But I can't say I'm one of the success stories. I still see more Trump signs than Hillary signs. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the liberal people in my town react with hostility towards a hypothetical expansion of low-income housing in our neighborhoods and letting poorer people use our schools. (The business-owning class and professionally-oriented immigrants obviously have their prejudices.) But maybe I'm being too cynical in this hypothetical.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:11
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Veskit posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_County_v._Holder - the one where he made it so you don't need federal preclearance to change your voting laws because, " is unconstitutional because the coverage formula is based on data over 40 years old, making it no longer responsive to current needs and therefore an impermissible burden on the constitutional principles of federalism and equal sovereignty of the states." IE, black people got an advantage for 40 years, they're goo dnow we're good That's one of my personal hateorites. It's pretty much like saying that you don't need to keep holding that open umbrella above your head because you've been walking in the rain all day and you haven't gotten wet yet, therefore the umbrella must not be necessary anymore. And to prove once and for all that cynics are right somewhere around 100% of the time, within hours of that ruling, some states that had been under such scrutiny began changing their voting laws in ways that just so happened to coincidentally negatively affect minorities more than whites (in an effort to prevent a type of voter fraud that virtually doesn't exist). North Carolina, my home state (born a Tarheel, raised a Landoflincoln), had the most obvious case: a day after that decision, they announced that they were going to kill in-person voter impersonation once and for all. And, to that end, they asked their data miners to give them data based on race: how did most black people vote, what voting services did they take advantage of more than whites, what IDs were they much less likely to have than whites, and what IDs were they more likely to have than whites. Take a wild guess as to how they then crafted their law. It was jaw-droppingly blatant institutional racism, which is impressive considering it's the South.
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Nov 1, 2016 17:29
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I'm not in favour of the praise for Louisville ky given anyone with money, black or white sends their kids to private school due to how lovely KY schools generally are, outside Oldham county the 48th richest place in America
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Nov 1, 2016 18:09
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Veskit posted:The more you buck this system where you don't help the disadvantaged the worse the experience is for the disadvantaged. It's so god drat selfish to put everything above everyone for your children. At no point does any reasonable parent go "jeeze, this bus system that we're using is absurdly expensive, why don't we just make all kids walk to school like mine because we happen to live so close and instead put it toward my child's education!". There's a point of reasonableness that you have to consider. It's not even just selfish to act this way, it is downright not in their best interest. It's shortsighted as gently caress to go "but my child needs the best opportunities to succeed" when what's really best for your loving kid is for everyone to have a legit loving chance to grow up with good opportunities so that the society your kid lives in is not quite as hosed up and terrible. Long Beach Unified in SoCal improved integration in their high schools by giving every school a special emphasis (STEM, arts, there's a military academy, etc) and guaranteeing bussing from any part of the city to any school. Kids can apply for and choose what high school they want to attend. It's not perfect, but it's improved things a lot in the city. And again, white people have totally benefited from the system as well, it's not like POC got something better and now white people's lives in Long Beach suck. So dumb that we white people live in such fear of not having enough privilege that we'll actually harm ourselves to prevent others from getting a leg up.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:18
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Hawkgirl posted:It's not even just selfish to act this way, it is downright not in their best interest. It's shortsighted as gently caress to go "but my child needs the best opportunities to succeed" when what's really best for your loving kid is for everyone to have a legit loving chance to grow up with good opportunities so that the society your kid lives in is not quite as hosed up and terrible. Everyone goes to state schools though not Ivy League schools  Hawkgirl posted:So dumb that we white people live in such fear of not having enough privilege that we'll actually harm ourselves to prevent others from getting a leg up. No offense to you Hawkgirl, clearly, but white people in this thread have been the worst for the past month it's really loving infuriating hence why my typing has been deplorably bad.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:42
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sbaldrick posted:I'm not in favour of the praise for Louisville ky given anyone with money, black or white sends their kids to private school due to how lovely KY schools generally are, outside Oldham county the 48th richest place in America As someone who actually went to public school in Louisville, I say they definitely deserve the praise they received. The quality of education in the state has certainly dropped with the funding cuts over the years which began around the time I hit 10th grade, not because of integration efforts, and to be fair, a lot of families in Kentucky can not afford to send their children to private school. I find reasonably often the quality of my high school education was much better than that of several of my US peers. Again, this is a personal opinion, but I don't feel his praise is at all misplaced.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:51
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sbaldrick posted:I'm not in favour of the praise for Louisville ky given anyone with money, black or white sends their kids to private school due to how lovely KY schools generally are, outside Oldham county the 48th richest place in America Why do you make stuff up http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/highest-income-counties/ Kentucky isn't even on the loving list. Lousiville's median income for a family is also 46k, which is way below the national average. I have zero clue how you came up with this poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:02
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Black schools are bad because they don't have funding, so parents don't want to send their kids there, which makes them worse because they have less funding...it's no child left behind all over again. Incidentally, the north has a history with this sort of thing. The south built up a whole race-based power system because they had to maintain power even in black-majority areas, but in the north, they were just another minority to disenfranchise and push to the side like the rest. In the south they needed to construct a complex system of norms to keep blacks in their place while also keeping them around to be the lower class and do jobs, but outside of the south, it was actually feasible to just make sundown towns where they all get kicked out at night. Blacks weren't even the first to have separate schools, that started with the Irish, which is part of where catholic schools came from. I'm not sure if there was much more intensity than there was with the other minorities, but it stuck around longer because families can naturalize and stop being foreign over time/generations, but they can't stop being black.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:18
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Veskit posted:Why do you make stuff up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States This list has Oldham at number 52 in 2010 with a median household income of $79,417 Most current lists don't seem to want to go past the top 10
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Nov 1, 2016 19:28
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I went to high school in a fairly mixed area and one thing the episode didn't really cover is how hosed up the system is even inside areas that are mostly white, but still have a significant minority population within the school district. I remember when in junior high, a bunch of kids weren't going to the same high school because they were terrified of the potential gang populations(there really was a strong gang population by the school, but as long as people didn't try to act like they were in a gang, they would be fine). They were instead trying to get into some catholic school, but that was starting to not become a realistic option because of the large Hispanic population in the area. So then a bunch of other parents decided to settle on this one town that was almost entirely white and move to it. Ok, so that seems sorta normal for what to expect, but then within the school system there was practically a class system that was being formed. Some of it was pretty natural like the ESL students sticking with each other(we had a lot of people coming in from Poland, Lithuania, and Mexico). Fine, but then you had the Honors/AP classes in which the students practically got their own brand of teachers, equipment, rooms, and even a giant amount of leeway from the non-teaching faculty. A bunch of the AP/Honors teachers would sometimes talk about them having to teach a non-honors/ap class and act like it was the worst thing in the world in front of the class. Also take a guess what race the honors/AP classes mostly were. Then I never noticed it, but then I started hearing stories on how they tried to put all of the African American kids in one gym and lunch periods and kinda gave them their own schedule, the Hispanic kids their own, and same with the Muslim ones. The only times I ran into these students were for some mandatory classes that didn't have some honor or AP variant and only had a single teacher teaching that subject. I somehow don't think that situation is all that unique either. In parts where you end up with a decent distribution of minorities and white people, I'd imagine that you end up with schools just trying to segregate the place. edit: I should probably point out that the entire teaching staff and management was white with a few exceptions(Spanish teachers were usually Mexican), and a large portion of the security, janitors, and food service staff were either first generation immigrants or African American. Grinning Goblin fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 19:35
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Veskit posted:No offense to you Hawkgirl, clearly, but white people in this thread have been the worst for the past month Which is still higher in quality than what you usually trot out. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 19:37
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Luvcow posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States Even going by a semantics argument, kentucky schools are pretty good which ruins his point https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-best-schools/5335/ It's a way to diffuse something important like school integration by saying something like "yeah but the schools are poo poo anyway so who cares".
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Nov 1, 2016 20:17
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Jamesman posted:That video of the little girl saying the drawing of the white girl was good because it looked like her and the drawing of the black girl was bad because she was dark was a goddamned gutpunch. If you think that's a gut punch wait until you see black kids coming to the same conclusion for the opposite reasons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7U1QsUd1g
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Nov 1, 2016 20:34
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