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Khisanth Magus posted:Considering getting into Infinity, but I have a question. Given that other players who are also looking into starting the game are playing Aleph and Yu Jing, who were 2 of the 3 factions I was considering, I am considering starting Tohaa. I realize they have a smaller stable of models than other factions(which actually bit me in the rear end when I started Warmachine years ago), but the one concern I have is the whole Triad thing. I don't entirely understand how the whole fireteam thing works right now(still working my way through the rulebook), but that seems intimidating as a new player. Is it really something to be concerned about? Tohaa are supposed to be getting a 300 point box either November or December. It would probably be a great way to get into the faction.
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Nov 1, 2016 03:35
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KPC_Mammon posted:Tohaa are supposed to be getting a 300 point box either November or December. It would probably be a great way to get into the faction. End of November, yeah. I know that there is no real way it would be viable, but I really want to play a nomad army that is purely geckos and iguana squads. Looking at Nomads again I am giving them a second consideration. Some of their more...bizarre models had turned me off from the faction, but there are a lot of them that I like the look of. Khisanth Magus fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 03:44
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Cyclomatic posted:I've had similar thoughts, but my experience has been that it never goes as well as I'd think when I try and do a showcase of the different abilities, yet it always seems to go better than I'd think when I just stick to a 4 vs 4 line infantry. The cases where people turned around and just bought stuff right after the demo were mostly after the line infantry vs line infantry demos. What seems to work best for the more advanced rules is simply mentioning them as an aside while you are doing the line infantry demo. My guess is they are wrapping their brain around the order system, and actually thinking about the rules for what a marker state is and what triggers a mine is too much, but merely telling them that there are rules for marker states and mines in the game is sufficient for them to imagine without needing to think through the mechanics. Basically show them simple mechanics that are cool and new, then tell them that mines exist and they imagine mines must be as cool and new as the simple mechanics currently being showed to them. Good advice! Thanks. It's easy to forget just how tricky some of these mechanics can be to people that don't play miniature games much, or even tabletop in general.
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Nov 1, 2016 05:17
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Hortism posted:Good advice! Thanks. It's easy to forget just how tricky some of these mechanics can be to people that don't play miniature games much, or even tabletop in general. I think the bit about showing off AROs is the key, that's the thing that really sets Infinity apart and ruins every other game for those that get used to it. I recall now that's basically what sold it for me and my friend, who both played Warmachine previously. It just made so much more sense. You're playing the entire game, not just on your turn. The tide of battle can shift due to an ARO and suddenly you're in a better position on the other players turn. You stay engaged the entire battle, keeping track of lines of sight, waiting for your opponent to forget about that flamethrower you've got guarding that corner... Even if you're not a dick and point it out when he goes to move, you've now wrecked their plans. Maybe they go "fuckit!" and charge in, then they all burn.
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Nov 1, 2016 06:26
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PirateDentist posted:I think the bit about showing off AROs is the key, that's the thing that really sets Infinity apart and ruins every other game for those that get used to it. I recall now that's basically what sold it for me and my friend, who both played Warmachine previously. It just made so much more sense. You're playing the entire game, not just on your turn. The tide of battle can shift due to an ARO and suddenly you're in a better position on the other players turn. Yeah, so that definitely sounds like I want an actual contestable objective going on.
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Nov 1, 2016 07:40
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Under 15 posted:What kind of a list did you run to get around the 5-man missile launcher deal? Sir Teabag posted:If he did take on the ML with an intruder through smoke it could still potentially be anywhere from -9 (camo, range, cover) to -3 in a five man (5-man link bonus, range) link; but now only the one guy being shot at can respond instead of the ML and all his support. That's where the burst four can really kick in. So yeah, I don't risk my Intruder shooting at a linked ML unless I really have to, I think I only did so once, against a Rodok link. First, remember that even high-number B2 is going to be at a disadvantage against B4-5, you're just taking more of a risk. You can't simply smoke-shoot but using smoke or position to take out 1 guy at a time will let you get that Burst advantage. Most link teams don't have MSV - models with Camo/To/Mimetism/ODD will wipe out their BS bonuses. Range bonuses are a huge swing in Infinity - I spent a few orders getting a Moran Masai (so Mimetism, combi rifle) into the +0 16" range band of a linked ML to take it out. If possible, snipe out a rifle or shotgun-carrying model at long range first - now the ML/HMG model lacks the BS bonus. This depends on your opponent leaving the shorter-range models up to ARO, but it does happen - I managed to get a panzerfaust and a HRL Wu Ming with my own ML, taking advantage of longer range - an opponent did the same to my ML using a sniper rifle, and only a crit saved me! Finally, never take on a risk with a model that's key to your plans. As I said, I don't use my Intruder, because a ML hit will blow him to pieces. If you have to take a coin flip chance with a 15pt model to take out a key player in a link, you can try it. Or, don't feel you have to attack an enemy in a position of strength - lay smoke, maneuver out of sight, get closer to him.
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Nov 1, 2016 09:07
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Hortism posted:Yeah, so that definitely sounds like I want an actual contestable objective going on. A console in the middle might be a good option. A Short skill WIP check to take it, then position to hold it. Nothing too fancy, don't worry about specialist for the demo. You can mention things are a bit more complicated with specialists in full games, but no need to overwhelm them. As an aside, can an engineer controlled Nasmat Coup de Grace? I'm leaning toward no since it's only weapon is a non-lethal CC. The engineer controlled reason is that as far as I can tell, the little dudes could still taze your rear end then drop a D-Charge on you. I just really want to take down something expensive someday using a 3pt model that is usually ignored, if the opportunity presents itself.
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Nov 1, 2016 13:48
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PirateDentist posted:I'm leaning toward no since it's only weapon is a non-lethal CC. quote:the little dudes could still taze your rear end then drop a D-Charge on you.
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Nov 1, 2016 18:28
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Pierzak posted:Coup de Grace doesn't have a lethal weapon requirement. Aww. Well at least they can still taze them down so someone else can commit war crimes. Then coup de grace them.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:36
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If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a anime catgirl nun forever.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:45
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Finally settled on a faction. Went with Haq in the end. Please tell me how I've screwed this list up! (This is literally babby's first attempt, and I'm 100% sure and expecting I've made some mistakes).  Haqqislam────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1   7  2  GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) ZHAYEDAN (Marksmanship L2) Breaker Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) FASID HMG + (Smoke and Normal) Light Grenade Launcher, Antipersonnel Mines / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 53) BASHI BAZOUK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)GROUP 2 3 4  4 LASIQ Viral Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) TUAREG Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33)5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I'm basing the list off a chunk of what came in the Red Veil box.
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Nov 2, 2016 20:30
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You might want to swap out the Tuareg Sniper for a Djanbazan Sniper (or HMG), just so you'll have some MSV2 to make all the smoke from your Ghazis nastier. The only other downside to this list is the fairly obvious lieutenant. Other than that, it's pretty solid.
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Nov 2, 2016 22:01
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Ilor posted:The only other downside to this list is the fairly obvious lieutenant.
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Nov 2, 2016 22:54
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True. But it never hurts to be a little more circumspect about it.
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Nov 3, 2016 00:01
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What would be the best route to make things less obvious? These are really the concepts of list building I'm not quite grasping yet, though I follow the ramifications of losing my LT.
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Nov 3, 2016 00:27
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Xaerael posted:What would be the best route to make things less obvious? These are really the concepts of list building I'm not quite grasping yet, though I follow the ramifications of losing my LT. While I'm pretty much as new as you can get at this game I think the idea is that you want to bring multiple models who are eligible to be the lieutenant to force your opponent to guess which one really is the LT. If course I could be completely wrong here!
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Nov 3, 2016 00:40
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Obvious LT + camo marker in Haqq means they have to be super sure a Chain of Command Farzan isn't under the marker. Then they need to be even more sure a hafza isn't involved either. You play Haqq, so the sooner you teach people that you will toy with their emotions and then break their heart the second they try to make an assumption and act on it, the better. Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 00:47
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Xaerael posted:What would be the best route to make things less obvious? These are really the concepts of list building I'm not quite grasping yet, though I follow the ramifications of losing my LT. The #1 option that most factions use is to run multiple profiles that could easily be a lieutenant. A good example in Haqq would be to run both the Rifle+LS and HMG Ghulam. The HMG Lt option is a pretty small tax over the vanilla option so it's a reasonable choice. Option #2 is less common but very accessible to Haqq: Chain of Command. The Hassassin Farzan CoC gets to deploy in camo and infiltrated for 26 pts. You'll probably have a couple more camo markers, so even if they guess you're running a Farzan they won't necessarily know where it is! Option #3 is available almost exclusively to Haqq: the Hafza disguise. A 16pt Hafza can be an Lt, but disguised as some other LI hiding in your backlines. The reverse is also true: a 16pt non-Lt Hafza can be disguised as a vanilla Ghulam or Ghulam HMG, thus looking like another potential Lt option. This option is a little vulnerable to experienced players because they'll be able to setup your list in Army and find out if it's over or under 300 points, which reveals the existence of a Hafza and potentially what it's disguised as.
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Nov 3, 2016 01:25
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Khisanth Magus posted:Considering getting into Infinity, but I have a question. Given that other players who are also looking into starting the game are playing Aleph and Yu Jing, who were 2 of the 3 factions I was considering, I am considering starting Tohaa. I realize they have a smaller stable of models than other factions(which actually bit me in the rear end when I started Warmachine years ago), but the one concern I have is the whole Triad thing. I don't entirely understand how the whole fireteam thing works right now(still working my way through the rulebook), but that seems intimidating as a new player. Is it really something to be concerned about? Or just play Vanilla while everyone else plays Sectorial. You'll learn the shortcomings of playing Vanilla but ALSO the shortcomings of Sectorial. Don't try and Link Team straight away, that's diving in at the deep end, because there are far too many finicky rules involved. And with Coordinated Orders, you can get a lot of the bonuses from that without the downsides. Currently I'm top of our (mostly noob) league because I'm playing Vanilla Nomads vs a lot of sectorial groups.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:06
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Don't worry too much about losing your LT in your first few games. The most common reasons for doing so during you first few games will be: 1) being too aggressive with your LT 2) leaving them in a vulnerable place, because you ran out of orders 3) getting hit with AD/Hidden deployment Rambo 4) getting your rear end kicked I find that unless you have a really obvious Lt like Joan of Arc, or a line Kazakh hiding in a building, prone in suppression fire, just chilling that no one will try and hunt your Lt. And even then the best way to deal with Joan is to ignore her, and in the case of the line Kazakh leading from behind it's rarely worth the orders to kill them. So you're much more likely to end up with one of the four scenarios I outlined above. All of which are good learning experiences to have happen to you in your first few games. So don't sweat it too much.
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Nov 3, 2016 03:39
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Not realizing what is and isn't a vulnerable place on the field is definitely the most common cause of early Lt losses. You get way better at creating webs of protection in all directions the more you play.
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Nov 3, 2016 03:45
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Khisanth Magus posted:Considering getting into Infinity, but I have a question. Given that other players who are also looking into starting the game are playing Aleph and Yu Jing, who were 2 of the 3 factions I was considering, I am considering starting Tohaa. I realize they have a smaller stable of models than other factions(which actually bit me in the rear end when I started Warmachine years ago), but the one concern I have is the whole Triad thing. I don't entirely understand how the whole fireteam thing works right now(still working my way through the rulebook), but that seems intimidating as a new player. Is it really something to be concerned about?
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Nov 3, 2016 11:14
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Thanks for all the advice folks. Going to tweak a few things to take on the suggestions.
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Nov 3, 2016 12:40
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A friend who reads this thread but never posts is intensely invested in running a 5-man link of Domaru, but gets painfully annihilated every game. Any JSA players want to provide commentary on how to make such a thing work? Others who play HI links chiming in on how not to suck would also be appreciated.
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Nov 3, 2016 14:36
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What's he losing them to? If he's not running Fairy Dust on them, he's asking for trouble. Also, he might want to look into a Domaru+Haramaki link - that poo poo hits like a ton of bricks.
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Nov 3, 2016 20:36
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After much agonizing and second guessing and looking through models over and over, I have decided to go with vanilla Nomads for the escalation league starting here next week  . I'm getting the entire Operation Icestorm box for $35, both factions and everything else in the box, this weekend.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:02
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Ilor posted:What's he losing them to? If he's not running Fairy Dust on them, he's asking for trouble. Also, he might want to look into a Domaru+Haramaki link - that poo poo hits like a ton of bricks. I'd make it like this:  Japanese Sectorial Army────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 3 OYAMA Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28) DOMARU Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 33) HARAMAKI Missile Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 33) HARAMAKI Blitzen, Contender / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22) HARAMAKI Blitzen, Contender / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)1.5 SWC | 138 Points Open in Infinity Army The missile launcher and the blitzen get the link team out of the deployment zone, then you have the boarding shotgun in case you need to make a FTF up close. Oyama does the rest.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:13
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For sheer amusements sake because I love the models, completely not caring about competitiveness and realizing that it would be horrible for competitiveness, I threw together this list. I am unlikely to ever actually run it, but man would it look awesome: Nomads Iguana Gecko w/ 2 Combi Rifles Gecko w/ Mk12 Mobile Brigada w/ MULTI Rifle Mobile Brigada w/ Missile Launcher(or HMG) Zero w/ Boarding Shotgun Alguacil Paramedic Alguacil w/ Combi Rifle The plain old Alguacil would probably be the LT and just hide out and generate orders.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:43
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Haramaki are just better filler in the link due to the blitzen and contenders. Range bands, special ammo, and higher BS just adds up. Plus they are cheaper. Light shotgun is better for the points than the boarding shotgun, comes with a blitzen and +1 bs. Unless you really really want AP for some odd reason. Haramaki combi is just better too. You always want one combi in the link (unless you have a Domaru spitfire). Add Domaru if you want a chain rifle, or spitfire in the link. It is also a decent LT option. Those are all useful things that Haramaki can't bring. Domaru are more for non-linked use, where Haramaki fall off more without the link.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:43
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Haramaki are way better than Domaru out of a link. Impetuous is a bonus that allows you to easier push your HI without wasting orders on them, you just have to be smart about where you deploy them.
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Nov 4, 2016 11:25
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Khisanth Magus posted:For sheer amusements sake because I love the models, completely not caring about competitiveness and realizing that it would be horrible for competitiveness, I threw together this list. I am unlikely to ever actually run it, but man would it look awesome: Heck yeah, just run it for fun. Plus that's a lot of armour and wounds for your opponent to shift in their active! Have fun with the escalation league, and enjoy the insanity this game can be.
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Nov 4, 2016 12:50
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Does anyone have a go-to base build for making lists? Something like 1 x ARO, 1 x Killer, 1 x Support, 3 x Cheerleaders? I'm looking at the next game in my local league, Border Clash against USAriadna. I'm tempted to take the previous list I used against them, or swapping it out for something a bit more aggressive.  Border Clash 1────────────────────────────────────────────────── 8 1  REVEREND CUSTODIER Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34) INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) REAKTION ZOND HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) BANDIT (Forward Observer) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)3.5 SWC | 199 Points Open in Infinity Army Hell, as there's a -3 Low Visibility Zone in effect across the entire board, I'm tempted to drop the TR bot and jiggle some points around so I can take a Riot Girl Spitfire instead - MSV will a boon, plus the Impetuous order could help move her across the board into the enemy DZ for point scoring.
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Nov 4, 2016 13:14
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Riot Grrls don't start out impetuous. They have frenzy so they have to wound something first. If you run as Bakunin you could field a Riot Grrls haris but it's not cheap. Riot Grrl Haris────────────────────────────────────────────────── 3  RIOT GRRL (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30) RIOT GRRL MULTI Rifle, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32) RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)0.5 SWC | 89 Points Open in Infinity Army
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Nov 4, 2016 16:53
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Cat Face Joe posted:Riot Grrls don't start out impetuous. They have frenzy so they have to wound something first. If you run as Bakunin you could field a Riot Grrls haris but it's not cheap. Aye, should have made that clearer and said Frenzy instead. I can't take a link team as we're locked into our initial choices at the start of the league. Plus I hate the Riot Grrl models, I'm looking to proxy them with some of the less objectionable Jailbirds from Raging Heroes.
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Nov 4, 2016 17:03
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Clawtopsy posted:Haramaki are way better than Domaru out of a link. Impetuous is a bonus that allows you to easier push your HI without wasting orders on them, you just have to be smart about where you deploy them. Maybe, but the inability to take cover, and the extremely limited access to smoke thrown before un-linked Haramaki have to move hurts them arguably more than the free order. Free moves are only really awesome if they don't generate free kills for the other player. Domaru only frenzy after getting close.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:17
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Getting the Domaru there costs orders, though. Maybe your meta of terrain is just very different to mine, where a few impetuous jerks can usually make it halfway across the table on personal orders alone before receiving an ARO?
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Nov 5, 2016 06:19
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So, I've got the following Haqq stuff gathering dust and I thought they might make a alternative force as a demo army or something. Help me whip this collection into shape. What am I missing, what needs to be changed? What I already know/plan to do: - Kum and Yuans Yuans will be given chain rifles - Ragik HMG will be given a spitfire - two of the rifle Ghulams with be converted into special weapons (HMG and sniper) to avoid buying a SWC box - old Ahl Fassed might be converted as a pseudo-Ayyar or something, no idea yet - one of the Tuaregs will be converted to a rifle doctor - I'll want a third Odalisque with rifle for a QK Haris (even if I put a Hafza in there I'd need a Haris profile) - I'll be getting the Maghariba and a Djanbazan sniper at some point BASHI BAZOUK BS 2x GHAZI MUTTAWI'AH chain 9x GHULAM (6 rifles, 2 Panzerfaust, doctor) NAJJARUN Engineer 2x NASMAT 3 HAFZA (rifle, spitfire, boss) 2x HALQA rifle KHAWARIJ rifle 2x ODALISQUE (spitfire, BS) ZHAYEDAN breaker rifle 2x RAGIK (HMG, rifle) FASID HMG FASSED BS AZRA'IL Feuerbach SHIHAB REMOTE (reaction) RAFIQ REMOTE (sensor) HAWWA' hacker FIDAY CCW KUM rifle 2x TUAREG sniper Also, applicable mercs/addons: ARMAND AVICENNA DRUZE hacker BOUNTY HUNTER BS BOUNTY HUNTER sniper MIRANDA ASHCROFT WARCOR (Aerocam) 2x YUAN YUAN (rifle, BS) 6x ALGUACIL (3 combi, HMG, sniper, ML) MOBILE BRIGADA multi Pierzak fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 17:18
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glitchkrieg posted:Does anyone have a go-to base build for making lists? Something like 1 x ARO, 1 x Killer, 1 x Support, 3 x Cheerleaders? I'd add a riot girl, with a multi or a spitfire, and dump the jaguars. If the board is low-vis, smoke/msv2 combo isn't very dramatic... you can get to -12 easily from cover/low-vis/camo/surprise. With that being the case, you're better off just spending the smoke order going back into camo.
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Nov 5, 2016 17:55
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I just picked up the Operation Icestorm box from someone for dirt cheap, and I have a question. Are all the future infinity models I buy going to be this horrible of quality for flash and mold lines? I'm not sure I've ever had to clean up metal models as much as I"m having to with these. Normally I only see plastics with this level of cleanup.
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Nov 6, 2016 01:53
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That's super weird, I've only had one model with anything approaching 'lots of cleanup' from CB. Does the box have complaint codes in it?
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Nov 6, 2016 02:28
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