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It's fun to think about how other candidates would be doing now but we were gifted an unflappable female candidate to oppose a gross misogynist and sexual predator. People talk about optics but this is the sort of match-up you only get when planets align. I voted for Sanders but I absolutely get why many people consider HRC the perfect candidate for this weirdass election.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:51
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CNN's viewership has been tanking steadily for years and they are going to try anything to get those numbers up. If you were to watch Network (1976) today, you probably wouldn't recognize it as satire.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:51
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socialsecurity posted:I still want to know why you are obsessed with this, you mention this several times a day in multiple versions of this thread now. I'm obsessed with it because it's the reason why a racist sociopath fool like Trump is within the margin of error a week before the election. And it's the reason why the Dems aren't going to pick up 10 senate seats and 40 seats in the house even though the republicans have the worst candidate in modern history at the top of the ticket. Crows Turn Off posted:I mean, sure, the Democratic voters chose her in the primaries, but they should just go gently caress themselves, right? They made a bad choice.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:52
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Agrajag posted:Also targeting Huma for criticism because of Weiner being a creepy pedo is pretty low. kaleedity posted:I wonder if the repubs would be calling bernard sanders out for his honeymooning in the soviet union alongside trump sucking putin's dick
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Nov 1, 2016 14:53
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It's great that you know what's best for them.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:53
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"X would be doing better" just gives legitimacy to the completely unfounded Hillary hate bandwagon. If a group of people spent 30+ years and millions of dollars doing everything they can to make you look crooked and criminal, even if they never had any smoking gun evidence, your reputation would be poo poo too. Instead of falling for the bait it's time to start rebuking it. Hillary has flaws like any other politician but she's got a lifelong record of trying to help people and fighting for incremental, achievable progress. She's gonna be a perfectly fine Commander in Chief.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:53
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Night10194 posted:Impeaching a Clinton to try to destroy their reputation didn't work last time and won't work this time. Republicans controlled the Presidency, the Senate, and the House not too long afterwards. Americans are sheep controlled by their better herders, and there's no organization better at herding sheep than the Bush-Clinton alliance.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:53
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Dexo posted:It's great that you know what's best for them. It's a bad choice politically.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:54
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Radish posted:Yeah they'd be calling Bernie a commie pinko while saying that Putin is a great leader of a proud people in the same sentence. They have no issues redefining reality on the fly and have no concrete ideology other than FYGM and bigotry. It's what makes campaigning on actual issues incredibly difficult since nothing matters to a chunk of the population.  I do wish content mattered more than whatever bullshit it is that makes current US conservatives' dicks hard
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Nov 1, 2016 14:54
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mcmagic posted:They made a bad choice. "I, mcmagic, know better than literally millions of people. My will should supersede their choices."
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Nov 1, 2016 14:54
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Tricky D posted:CNN's viewership has been tanking steadily for years and they are going to try anything to get those numbers up. If you were to watch Network (1976) today, you probably wouldn't recognize it as satire. I watched it a couple weeks ago and laughed my rear end off at the (((globalism))) rant near the end. But yeah it's hella accurate, which just goes to show this descent into poo poo media has been happening for half a century
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Nov 1, 2016 14:55
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mcmagic posted:I'm obsessed with it because it's the reason why a racist sociopath fool like Trump is within the margin of error a week before the election. And it's the reason why the Dems aren't going to pick up 10 senate seats and 40 seats in the house even though the republicans have the worst candidate in modern history at the top of the ticket. You claim it is. You have absolutely no proof otherwise beyond "but polls taken literally months ago for a candidate who never was seriously the focus of attacks say he'd be doing better!" You also take it for granted that every bit of support Clinton has Sanders would also have in the same or better measures. Like basically the only group Hillary could be reasonably doing better with are white men who, shockingly are Trump's strongest supporters. Do you think white men would leave Trump for Sanders?
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Nov 1, 2016 14:55
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mcmagic posted:I'm obsessed with it because it's the reason why a racist sociopath fool like Trump is within the margin of error a week before the election Dexo posted:It's great that you know what's best for them. WampaLord posted:"I, mcmagic, know better than literally millions of people.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:56
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Counterpoint: Hillary will make an awesome president, and all this counterfactual Tim Kaine/Sanders/etc. trades a potentially safer candidate (though I'm honestly not buying it) for a less capable president.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:57
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Tom Guycot posted:Don't forget the increase in voter disenfranchisement thats gone on since 2012. Yes, it's this. Now that early voting in NC has been expanded to its regular levels, the AA vote is catching up. It might be slightly lower than 2012, but it'll be made up by the increase in Hispanic vote.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:58
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Nevada EV update: Clark firewall at 48k, same as 2012 https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/793449246259228672
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Nov 1, 2016 14:59
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cult member at airport posted:"X would be doing better" just gives legitimacy to the completely unfounded Hillary hate bandwagon. If a group of people spent 30+ years and millions of dollars doing everything they can to make you look crooked and criminal, even if they never had any smoking gun evidence, your reputation would be poo poo too. Instead of falling for the bait it's time to start rebuking it. I agree that most of the scandals against her are completely unfounded and that she will probably be a fine Commander in Chief other than on foreign policy. Those facts are both pretty irrelevant politically. Her unfavorables were baked in the cake before the election started.
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Nov 1, 2016 14:59
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Tim Kaine is FINE as a VP but as a candidate he's boring and practically a no-name outside of the safe state of Virginia. He'd be a terrible choice to go up against Donald Trump.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:00
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ImpAtom posted:Like basically the only group Hillary could be reasonably doing better with are white men who, shockingly are Trump's strongest supporters. Do you think white men would leave Trump for Sanders? I think he'd be doing a lot better with white men than Clinton, and a lot worse with everyone else.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:00
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mcmagic posted:I agree that most of the scandals against her are completely unfounded and that she will probably be a fine Commander in Chief other than on foreign policy. Those facts are both pretty irrelevant politically. Her unfavorables were baked in the cake before the election started. Again, she is doing well with every single group that isn't white men. Do you think Bernie Sanders would somehow have grabbed white men away from Donald Trump in particularly significant numbers?
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Nov 1, 2016 15:00
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ImpAtom posted:You claim it is. You have absolutely no proof otherwise beyond "but polls taken literally months ago for a candidate who never was seriously the focus of attacks say he'd be doing better!" You also take it for granted that every bit of support Clinton has Sanders would also have in the same or better measures. Yeah, honestly, we have no real basis to assume that anyone would be doing better or worse than Clinton at this stage of the game. We really don't. General election polls during the primary aren't in any way predictive of the actual general election, especially with a big difference in the focus the other party gives to the candidate. Many of the Republican candidates positioned themselves as running against Clinton from day one of their candidacy. Hell, Clinton came up during their primary debates because they (like a lot of people) assumed she'd be the Democratic nominee, so they started running against her early. Bernie Sanders didn't have that kind of focus from the opposition, so it's natural he'd be polling better against them during the primaries. We have absolutely no way of knowing how he'd poll now. We don't know if maybe there actually was some dirt on him, or if how he'd have performed at the debates, or what avenues of crazy conspiracy attacks Trump would take against him. We just have no idea and it's pointless to speculate.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:00
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ImpAtom posted:Again, she is doing well with every single group that isn't white men. Conversely, he showed zero aptitude for mobilizing minority voters during the Democratic primary, so why would we expect him to reproduce Clinton's overpowering advantage in that area in the general election race?
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Nov 1, 2016 15:01
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Radish posted:Tim Kaine is FINE as a VP but as a candidate he's boring and practically a no-name outside of the safe state of Virginia. He'd be a terrible choice to go up against Donald Trump. Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:02
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Shock endorsement! https://twitter.com/ScottWalker/status/793450901092438017 Scott Walker posted:If you like the past 8 years, vote @HillaryClinton.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:02
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Mcmagic why are the only two democrats you frequently hate on and call unelectable a woman and a black person
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Nov 1, 2016 15:03
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BarbarianElephant posted:I think he'd be doing a lot better with white men than Clinton, and a lot worse with everyone else. Pretty much and white men are going to go with Trump over the Democrat in the end since  .mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising. Generic politicians always poll better than actual people since they are an ideal and have no actual scandals, voting history, personality quirks, or any other problems.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:03
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ImpAtom posted:Do you think Bernie Sanders would somehow have grabbed white men away from Donald Trump in particularly significant numbers? I'd have voted for him. And i live in a contested swing state with ~30 EVs, so unlike you plebes my vote actually does matter  MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 15:04
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:Any reason to worry over Hillary not doing as well with black people as in 2012? Or just unfounded due to her not being Obama? Team Rocket is still absolutely certain that the only reason African American voters have ever shown up to the polls was to vote Obama in. The GOP are, collectively, very very stupid when it comes to politics that don't exist entirely within their tent.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:04
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canepazzo posted:Shock endorsement! Remember when people, myself included, were worried he might Smiler himself into the nomination? Good, simpler times.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:04
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Chokes McGee posted:You'd think this, and it's true for at least this election cycle, but IIRC CNN's overall ratings are in the toilet and the way they've conducted themselves this year isn't gonna help. That has nothing to do with Clinton News Network in buyout talks for the majority of this election, and they've been very favorable to Obama for the past eight years while being absolutely horrible at covering Syria and Russia.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:05
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mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:05
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Gyges posted:So now that we've just got 7 days left, I feel like we should be talking about a real October "Surprise" What do you call an October surprise in November?
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Nov 1, 2016 15:06
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mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising. Nobody is running against Generic Democrat because Generic Democrat isn't a real person, with real policies, votes to criticize, past dirt to dig up.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:07
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Also mcmagic why are all your preferable alternatives to the woman and black man all white men
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Nov 1, 2016 15:07
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mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising. mcmagic, do you remember how in TFF, you had your one shining moment where everyone went "HOLY poo poo MCMAGIC WAS RIGHT"? Do you know why that is? It's because you're as reliably wrong as Bill Kristol the rest of the time.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:07
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mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising. "Generic Democrat" is a meaningless term because you're comparing a literal empty suit with no facts to an actual person. "Someone who is never attacked, never has to risk making mistakes and has generic policies would do better than a loudmouthed egotist who gaffs constantly" is true but also not actually proof that Bernie Sanders or Tim Kaine or literally anyone but Clinton would be doing significantly better.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:07
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Sanders would have failed in the general for similar reasons to why Ron Paul would have failed in the general. Being able to take the kinds of principled stances as a national senator that Sanders took is a luxury built on having a voting base that would continue supporting him on those principles, much like Paul did in Texas. Sanders was never put in a position where he was forced to compromise to defeat, say, a primary challenger. And he did well in the Democratic primary because he didn't have one of the major weaknesses long-standing politicians have in a primary: a self-contradictory voting record. A similar strength to Trump, who has no record at all. But maintaining ideological purity like that is a luxury not afforded to most politicians, and not one that exists in a presidential general election. Sanders would have been put in a tough position when it came time to either make his ideas appeal to the electorate as a whole, or pivot to more electable positions. I like Sanders, and I like a lot of his policies, and I tend to agree with him more than Clinton. But there's a lot more going on in a Presidential race.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:07
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In any case, the VP debate didn't do wonders for my faith in Kaine as an attractive option at the top of the ticket.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:08
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Mcmagic why are the only two democrats you frequently hate on and call unelectable a woman and a black person Because they are centrist democrats who either are bad at their job (Booker) or bad at politics (Hillary). Mel Mudkiper posted:Also mcmagic why are all your preferable alternatives to the woman and black man all white men Untrue and dumb. Are you really desperate enough to try to argue this nonsense?
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Nov 1, 2016 15:08
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mcmagic posted:Generic Democrat beats Trump by 10. Kaine was a popular senator and governor from a purple state with zero scandals in his background. He would be cruising. I actually think there isn't a candidate available to put up who could be doing better than her. Shes got at least the support Obama had, plus shes picked off women support from the GOP like no one else has and probably would have been able to. If you want to blame the closeness, blame the media narrative and a GOP electorate that would vote for Hitler with a shrug as long as he was running as a republican.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:09
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