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All you need to do is fire an ABT turn 3 for two beefy ice, ez
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Nov 1, 2016 19:26
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Playing ABT roulette is the purest form of Netrunner.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:35
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Always Be Testing
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Nov 1, 2016 19:38
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Static Equilibrium posted:Playing ABT roulette is the purest form of Netrunner. against nexus kate recently i ABT Fairchild 3, turing, and ichi 2. I just put it all in my scoring remote(already had two face downs) and jammed agendas till i got to 7.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:39
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cant get the labeouf just do it video layered over the ABT art at work 
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Nov 1, 2016 19:40
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StashAugustine posted:cant get the labeouf just do it video layered over the ABT art at work i got u fam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcMHo2wInwQ
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Nov 1, 2016 19:47
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Literally always fire that ABT. If you didn't want to fire it, why play it????????berenzen posted:Blackmail val is probably the easiest way to find out if your deck can handle runner tricks or not, because it's the simplest way for a runner to deal with corp ICE. I can understand frustration playing against it, but how is it different than a nexus bypass or your big barrier getting femmed? Or just straight up the runner making enough money to handle any sort of ICE that you put up on a server? Breaking ICE has always been the last option for a runner in order to get into a server. Usually they use tricks to bypass it in some way. Like, if your deck can't handle blackmail val, how does it deal with other bypass methods. If blackmail Val really has you down, either play shell games with 2 ICE remotes, or splash in Ark lockdown to get rid of them. The reason Blackmail gets the most hate compared to those other options you mentioned is setup cost and scope. Blackmail is a 1 cost event that you get to recur for 0 and some clicks or 2 and a click. Security Nexus is 8 to play and needs credits or other link setup to function, Femme is 9 and also at least requires some credit to use. They're also both single target, and yeah they can both easily be moved around (easier for Nexus) they can't just invalidate an entire server alone like Blackmail.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:49
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WFGuy posted:I've been playing a few different Khan decks, and it's become very clear that she and her breakers only work with two cards: Autoscripter, and CybSoft MacroDrive - with emphasis on the CybSoft. The ability to reinstall the birds for cheap is critical. Multithreader helps, and if you're running Saker instead of Paperclip (risky and pricey) you can run Net-Ready Eyes too, but that MacroDrive is the one thing that gives Khan her own purpose. I pretty much agree that Gauntlet doesn't do much to help - the 2MU is actually a little odd, suggesting that they either want her to run Pheremones or to import all three Multithreaders instead of just one or two - but it's a nice late-game console. In theory, Khan with that console can lock down HQ very thoroughly and use her Turning Wheel to occasionally put pressure on R&D to boot. I'll try a tweak to incorporate these changes after I get my hands on Intervention, certainly. Unrelated: I like currents as a design idea but boy do I not like Employee Strike or Rumour Mill (or Cerebral Static, for that matter). Blanking cards is really bad design; there should always be options. More Targeted Marketing or ELP please Damon, less ES or RM. quote:The reason Blackmail gets the most hate compared to those other options you mentioned is setup cost and scope. Zephro fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 20:22
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Zephro posted:Yes, basically this. Setup consists of "Be Val" and "mulligan for Blackmail" and then you're good to go. Recursion feels like it's a bit out of hand now too, especially on the Runner side, though that's not a problem unique to Blackmail. And there's an interesting game developing around it with Chronos and Ark Lockdown and so on, so maybe it'll work out in the end. If only Corp deck slots were just a bit less tight. Meanwhile, Exile is left weeping in a corner as his already-shaky setup gets obliterated as collateral damage for hate against other cards 
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Nov 1, 2016 20:37
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Slio posted:The reason Blackmail gets the most hate compared to those other options you mentioned is setup cost and scope. Blackmail is a 1 cost event that you get to recur for 0 and some clicks or 2 and a click. Security Nexus is 8 to play and needs credits or other link setup to function, Femme is 9 and also at least requires some credit to use. They're also both single target, and yeah they can both easily be moved around (easier for Nexus) they can't just invalidate an entire server alone like Blackmail. Except val blackmail decks don't win at high-level tournaments. I doubt we see val in top 16 at worlds. Blackmail recursion val is way too high variance for her to win consistently and she is fairly easily teched against. She's probably the best benchmark to build your corp deck around, and there are a lot of ways for her to break. The super-jank and not really that great Crisium/OTG combo out of weyland is incredibly difficult for her to beat because blackmail val needs 3 blackmails in order to beat. Jammy/Rushy HB can shell game her early game and FA their wins out late game. NBN just doesn't worry about ICE and shell games out agendas. Jinteki has the worst of it, but that's more because of the existence of rumour mill than anything else. Any Val deck that we see at worlds that does well will likely use blackmail as an option similar to inside job rather than as their primary win condition.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:08
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I'll be interested to see the stats from Worlds, especially the top half of the Swiss and what happens in the cut. It feels intuitively like Runners are much stronger than Corps right now, but the stats don't seem to back that up. Worlds will give us a look at the metagame at the top-end, with the most skilled players. So it'll be interesting to see if the roughly 50-50 split holds at the top tables.
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Nov 3, 2016 10:43
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I think that corp-runner is probably 50/50 at high level play, but that's because they know how to pilot against a lot of the powerful runner decks seeing play. I think we'll see CTM, NEH, EtF and CI with one or two IG and Sol in the top slots. It's not that corps aren't powerful. It's that all but a couple decks aren't strong in the meta as it stands right now.
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Nov 3, 2016 10:58
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What do people think about the runner makeup? I'm going to guess Nexus Kate as the most prominent deck coming into Day 2 (although I think there will be a bigger split once the final cut is made). Val/Rebirth good stuff is my bet on second most common, but honestly after Nexus Kate I could see things going a few different ways.
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Nov 3, 2016 19:30
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My guess is we see Nexus Kate, Temujin Whiz/Val and a smattering of andysucker and Dyper. I think how well nexus Kate does primarily depends on how much CTM is in the meta. A caprice in an HB remote is tough to deal with. berenzen fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 19:55
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berenzen posted:My guess is we see Nexus Kate, Temujin Whiz/Val and a smattering of andysucker and Dyper. Literally 54% of corps are on either CtM or EtF. Also, Kate will not be attending. 1 in 3 players is on Whizzard. https://twitter.com/FFGOP/status/794237136782368768
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Nov 3, 2016 20:20
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That's a lot of orange, although it will be interesting to see the day 2 spread.
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Nov 3, 2016 20:25
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The corp one isn't much better https://twitter.com/FFGOP/status/794244254033920000
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Nov 3, 2016 20:56
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Better give NBN some more power cards, it's not at 100% representation yet.
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Nov 3, 2016 21:01
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CodfishCartographer posted:The corp one isn't much better The interesting stat is that it isn't just NBN and HB heavy, it's CtM and EtF heavy, to the tune of 54% of all corp decks being those 2 ID's. If the top 8 is 7 CtM and 1 EtF or something like that, could we see an ID itself go on the MWL?
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Nov 3, 2016 21:02
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so runner side: anarch with a side of shaper and some crims corp side: mostly yellow and purple hmmmmm
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Nov 3, 2016 21:03
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:The interesting stat is that it isn't just NBN and HB heavy, it's CtM and EtF heavy, to the tune of 54% of all corp decks being those 2 ID's. If the top 8 is 7 CtM and 1 EtF or something like that, could we see an ID itself go on the MWL? Yeah you're right, this is the more relevant stat: https://twitter.com/FFGOP/status/794233531358707712 And the runner version: https://twitter.com/FFGOP/status/794232691470331904
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Nov 3, 2016 21:05
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Not really surprising to see mostly ctm and EtF. My guess is that NEH is in #3, but literally the best IDs in the game. EtF is probably the best of them, and I think we see them take it. CTM has a lot of tech against it in the current meta. It's hard to beat EtF and it's massive clickless econ out of any faction. Ctm has built in trash punishment and NEH has super draw and 17 information. There is a massive power disparity amongst just the IDs. The next tier of IDs is probably Sync and Palana. Except red has had it really rough with rumor mill.
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Nov 3, 2016 21:15
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^^ I'm sort of surprised there isn't more Sol, News Hound is really good, TM is better the more predictable the Runner meta becomes, and you have all the usual NBN tricks. I wonder if it's time to add like Sweeps Week and Tollbooth to the MWL along with all the other NBN cards. Also, I knew Rumour Mill was a stupid card that shouldn't have been printed. Are games being streamed anywhere yet or is it just Twitter updates so far? edit: it's kind of a shame, NBN is my favourite faction from a pure flavour point of view, I wish they weren't comically overpowered as well. Zephro fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 22:40
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Zephro posted:I wonder if it's time to add like Sweeps Week and Tollbooth to the MWL along with all the other NBN cards.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:59
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Honestly, the biggest thing about the strength of NBN right now is the binary way tags work and how there's not of interaction avoiding/preventing. Breaking news is probably the biggest problem child of this- there's no way to really avoid them aside from NACH, but if a corp gets a double advanced one out behind ICE that you can't deal with at the time, then you're hosed. Tollbooth and sweeps week don't need to go onto the MWL, because they don't completely warp the meta. Honestly, runner-side just needs a better way of dealing with insta-tags than a resource that they can bait out a trash of. If tagging becomes more difficult, you'll see a large downspike in the power levels of NBN. The problem is that it harms Weyland as well, because of their need to run tags to ensure a kill. As for rumour mill, I don't think it'll hit the MWL. So long as you're not Jinteki, it's not super difficult to play around it? Shaper decks don't have the influence for both it and clot, so you can just FA through it. Weyland doesn't really have a lot of unique upgrades that they use with their glacier decks aside from Jackson. HB is most affected, but they have FA through biotic. Meaning that they can simply blow through right through the rumour mill. But real glacier isn't really a good place right now, and it's not because of rumour mill. Most of it comes down to the fact that once a runner gets set up in the late game, they can get into servers for super-cheap. Temujin Whiz can carve through any 6 strength code gate for free with sucker/yog/NRE/Carver, and crushes through other ICE for fairly cheaply with Mimic/Paperclip. Same with Nexus kate, and Dyper wins in a turn if you let them get set up fast enough. The problem is that there are really only a couple IDs that can actually deal with the meta as it is, and so those IDs have sort of come to the forefront, and runners teched more against those IDs, but a lot of the stuff that they were teching for beats a good chunk of the rest of the meta as well. Tag avoidance/removal hurts IDs like sync, rumour mill is just straight up tech versus Palana. Strike to deal with CtM kills White tree and IG, etc. The thing is, corp hasn't really gotten any good cards. I mean, in the past 6 months the only yellow cards that have been good are HHN, CtM and EoI. But everyone but HB got even less. Particularly with the hit to Museum. So it feels like NBN has been getting a ton of good new cards, but in reality, they haven't. But (aside from HB:EtF) they're the only ones that really have an an actually defined niche. HB I feel is in a better spot than NBN is. They've received far more good cards in the same time frame as NBN has. The thing is, they've had their niche defined in the meta for a lot longer, and it feels like you have a lot more outs than playing against NBN decks do when in reality I think that EtF is straight up better than CtM. EoI is maybe the only card that might need to go on the MWL. Or give more ways to forfeit agendas on the runner's side to sell off 3 pointers. Using an EoI to do a 1 point swing is a lot less powerful than a 2 point swing. berenzen fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 23:27
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Zephro posted:^^ I'm sort of surprised there isn't more Sol, News Hound is really good, TM is better the more predictable the Runner meta becomes, and you have all the usual NBN tricks. I've been running a Sol deck for a couple of months, and honestly the only reason I'm running it right now is for originality points. Simple answer is that the sol deck is just better in CTM (or Sync if your deck floats that way). There are currents all over from runner and corp so running News Hound isn't all that hampered even without Sol's ability. Also, I think Scarcity of Resources is just as good, if not better, than TM right now as your go to yellow current. I went from a 2/2 split to 3/1 scarcity split in my Sol deck and haven't felt the need to swap back. Even with tag me runners the 2 creds to play SoT is worth it. berenzen posted:EoI is maybe the only card that might need to go on the MWL. Or give more ways to forfeit agendas on the runner's side to sell off 3 pointers. Using an EoI to do a 1 point swing is a lot less powerful than a 2 point swing. The fact that you can't even shut off EoI with siphon/vamp amazes me. Even closed accounts costs 1 to play.
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Nov 3, 2016 23:43
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Voodoofly posted:The fact that you can't even shut off EoI with siphon/vamp amazes me. Even closed accounts costs 1 to play. The thing that blows my mind is the EoI/Breaking News non-trigger interaction. It feels like a "the rules shouldn't do this" situation like MaskNaught in Vintage.
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Nov 3, 2016 23:50
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:The thing that blows my mind is the EoI/Breaking News non-trigger interaction. It feels like a "the rules shouldn't do this" situation like MaskNaught in Vintage. It took me till today to understand how good BN + EoI is (it's two tags good!).
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Nov 4, 2016 00:02
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:The thing that blows my mind is the EoI/Breaking News non-trigger interaction. It feels like a "the rules shouldn't do this" situation like MaskNaught in Vintage. What do you mean by non-trigger? Doesn't it just mean you can install+advance BN on a SanSan, score it, then trigger EoI to swap it for a runner’s 2 or 3 pointer? Or I guess install it one turn, then advance-advance-score, EoI?
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Nov 4, 2016 00:20
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CodfishCartographer posted:What do you mean by non-trigger? Doesn't it just mean you can install+advance BN on a SanSan, score it, then trigger EoI to swap it for a runner’s 2 or 3 pointer? Or I guess install it one turn, then advance-advance-score, EoI? If you exchange away a breaking news the turn you score it, the 2 tags don't get removed at the end of the turn (as the agenda is now in the runner's score area and therefore the "remove at the end of the turn" trigger doesn't fire).
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Nov 4, 2016 00:23
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My objection to Rumour Mill isn't so much the pure power level (although it absolutely ruins any Jinteki deck that wants to leave agendas on the board for more than a turn). It's just really bad, binary, sledgehammer game design. "Your cards do nothing" is both frustrating and boring as a concept because it leaves very little room for counter-play. Employee Strike is nearly as bad for the same reason. Corp IDs tend to be very impactful and decks are built around them. The fact that it hoses the more interesting IDs more than the generic ones makes it even worse - shutting off say, IG or PE or Blue Sun is more impactful, I think, than shutting off Palana or Sync or ETF. Cerebral Static is just as bad. They're just badly designed, unfun, non-interactive cards. edit: as for NBN I think the problem is partly the fact they just have a really deep pool of solid cards. Sweeps Week is probably the best operation econ in the game; compare it to Commercialisation or MRF or something. Tollbooth was the best high-strength code gate for years, and even now that Tracker and Fairchild 3.0 have been printed it's still pretty good. Wraparound is a solid gear-check / AI hate barrier in a single card. They have two different 3/2s and the best 2/1 in the game, as well as good FA in faction, the best tagging options, a variety of tag punishment all of which is solid (CA, ASI, Psycho, EoI all see play), a passable trap in News Team, really solid IDs (NEH, Sync, Sol, Haarp and CTM all see play at high levels, and it still astonishes me that NEH got 17 inf), Jackson - a card so fundamental that it's basically a rules patch - in faction, etc etc etc. They are just really solid and really deep even beyond their flashy standout cards like EoI or whatever. Zephro fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 00:26
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Zephro posted:My objection to Rumour Mill isn't so much the pure power level (although it absolutely ruins any Jinteki deck that wants to leave agendas on the board for more than a turn). It's just really bad, binary, sledgehammer game design. "Your cards do nothing" is both frustrating and boring as a concept because it leaves very little room for counter-play. Employee Strike is nearly as bad for the same reason. Corp IDs tend to be very impactful and decks are built around them. The fact that it hoses the more interesting IDs more than the generic ones makes it even worse - shutting off say, IG or PE or Blue Sun is more impactful, I think, than shutting off Palana or Sync or ETF. Cerebral Static is just as bad. They're just badly designed, unfun, non-interactive cards. A Good Opinion.
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Nov 4, 2016 00:29
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Employee Strike helps keep grinding IG decks away, and for that alone I am thankful. Other than that, though, and I'm with you.
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Nov 4, 2016 00:30
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Voodoofly posted:If you exchange away a breaking news the turn you score it, the 2 tags don't get removed at the end of the turn (as the agenda is now in the runner's score area and therefore the "remove at the end of the turn" trigger doesn't fire). Haha holy poo poo I never realized this.
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Nov 4, 2016 00:56
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:A Good Opinion. You guys know that's not how rumor mill works though, right? It's not cerebral static for runners.
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Nov 4, 2016 05:47
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Those posts are mostly talking about Employee Strike. Rumor Mill's design problems stem from the same issues though--it just blanks cards, it doesn't actually get around a problem in an interesting way, it brute forces it.
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Nov 4, 2016 05:54
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Apparently Dan D'Argenio is on CI7 for Worlds
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Nov 4, 2016 16:42
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StashAugustine posted:Apparently Dan D'Argenio is on CI7 for Worlds hosed up if true. Bets on him taking DLR Val?
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Nov 4, 2016 16:42
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The Deleter posted:hosed up if true. Bets on him taking DLR Val? I think he's on Whizz, probably regass breakers?
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Nov 4, 2016 16:47
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StashAugustine posted:Apparently Dan D'Argenio is on CI7 for Worlds A haha haha
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Nov 4, 2016 17:14
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