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axeil
Feb 14, 2006

In NC polling data we see the GOP vote for Clinton only around 10%, which is a slightly higher than usual defection rate but not a crazy massive defection rate like 28% would be.

To put that in context, if the nationwide GOP defection rate is 28%, Clinton probably wins Texas.


Now with that said...based on my read of the methodology it seems sound. It's possible they got unlucky and got a bad sample but most polls aren't grabbing people's info from the Secretary of State's website and calling them...which is exactly what this poll did. Very unusual method, but it guarantees you're talking to actual registered voters who voted for your early vote sample.


tl;dr: I would like them to do another poll and see if they get the same results.

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Monaghan
Dec 29, 2006

A Winner is Jew posted:

What record of corruption?

No seriously.

I don't think hilllary is any worse than most politicians, but she's taken donor money and coincidentally votes in their interests see: bankruptcy bills, deregulating wall street pushing for UHC and then now saying it won't work when she gets a bunch of money from insurance/drug companies.

stone cold
Feb 15, 2014

bewilderment posted:

Is the alt-right the same thing as neoreactionaries? One spews overt racism and the other one just has casual racism so it's hard to tell the difference.

The altright is if nothing else the spiritual successors of the Nrx; the differences are virtually none.


Specifically refers to the so-called 'Dark Enlightenment.'

E:dropped a clause

joe football
Dec 22, 2012
Yeah the Republican stances on racial/religious/social/'cultural' issues seem like the actual popular part of their platform. Not like a majority of the electorate(let alone the population), but enough that a coalition with the smaller group of people who actually really like right wing economics can maybe sort of win the presidency if things go just right(wrong). If they suddenly became socially moderate Democrats who also wanted to gut entitlements and eliminate corporate taxes, I think they're further away then they are now. I'm not sure what they're going to do as the social stuff they run on now hopefully becomes less salient, but I know the very last thing they'll try is moderate on economics

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Pakled posted:

It's not great but it's better than what we had before.

The ACA has a lot of flaws but there are people with serious medical issues who were at least given some help that they otherwise would have been denied. The ACA's flaws should be fixed or a better system should be implemented but things would be worse for a lot of people without it.

MrBuddyLee
Aug 24, 2004
IN DEBUT, I SPEW!!!
Bill Weld, Libertarian VP candidate, this morning:

"Mr. Trump braying about this latest development reminds me of the guy in Monty Python who says 'She's a witch, burn her! Burn her!" Weld said, with a mock British accent. "It has no more content than that. And the point of that skit in Monty Python was that those townspeople were ignorant and stupid -- not that they were great."

Bass Concert Hall
May 9, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo

Gyges posted:

Nah, turns out that's not actually true at all. And to the extent it is true, Hispanic and Asian immigrants tend to put a much lower emphasis on socially conservative issues in comparison to economic issues, where they're way more liberal than the Republican Party.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/417799/myth-socially-conservative-immigrant-mark-krikorian
http://prospect.org/article/myth-buster-latinos-are-not-natural-conservatives
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...m=.c58761abd5a8
http://latinainstitute.org/es/2012/12/10/the-unraveling-of-the-latino-conservative-myth

Yeah I was gonna say, my impression interacting with other Hispanics in Texas has been overwhelmingly not "oh we wish we could vote for the GOP but *racism*". On the contrary there are a lot of Hispanics who are deeply religious Catholics and believe that abortion is wrong but are pragmatic and super onboard with the government providing healthcare and employment opportunities and addressing poverty, and when push comes to shove the latter items matter a lot more than the former.

Don't get me wrong, the GOP doubling down on white supremacy and anti-immigration fearmongering is icing on the cake, but I think that they will have to more than just clean up their act to capture the Hispanic vote.

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

bewilderment posted:

Is the alt-right the same thing as neoreactionaries? One spews overt racism and the other one just has casual racism so it's hard to tell the difference.

there's lots of overlap but in general the alt-right is the wicked witch of the west's army of flying monkeys and the NRx people are perpetually auditioning for extras in House Slytherin

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

A Winner is Jew posted:

What record of corruption?

No seriously.

30 years of investigations mean she's guilty as sin. In fact she's so drat guilty that she's stolen all the evidence. Plus she stole the nomination from Bernie with the help of Donna Brazile and the DNC.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Your Boy Fancy posted:

Winchester, Virginia is Trump Country. But it's principled, funny enough - once enough people heard about Q1 messing with the constitution, they became interested and attentive.

We've been saying it a lot in this thread today - conservatives are not, by and large, evil people. You get out into the country, and there's a lot of folks who just wanna go to work and feed their kids, and they don't give a sweet drat about much else. They're not belligerent systemic racists, because systemic racism mostly runs into Not My Problem. But the housing crisis is everyone's problem. And for conservatives, the constitution is everyone's problem. When you hit them on that angle, they listen.

Basically what I'm saying is that we don't have to destroy everyone. Just the ones spoiling for a fight. Most people don't seem to want to fight. They want to be heard, and they want action. So we listen and act.

Fifty doors and 277 miles today. More tomorrow. Five days left.

As a VA voter who said "gently caress that" to putting a right to work law in the constitution when he early voted, do you think the amendment will pass or fail?

Also what about the one that allows localities to grant property tax relief to first-responders' survivors?

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

MrBuddyLee posted:

Anyone watching Weld on Maddow? Is he advocating for HRC?

he "vouched" for her but stopped short of endorsing again

it's like he's zeno's paradox but with endorsing HRC

i hope he gets all the way there by the end of the week, i have a super glibertarian coworker who only isn't in the GOP because of religious/anti-gay stuff and seeing his libertarian hero endorse HRC would kill him - the kicker is that this "vouch" stuff isn't gonna fly because he will just Well Actually away anything that stops short of an explicit endorsement, hopefully weld knows the mindset of his adopted party and doesn't leave any wiggle room

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Lemming posted:

It's been clear that straight up one party is doing everything to prevent the government from working for the past 6 years and it hasn't made much of a difference

Americans are very, very, very stupid.

Yea, i know, but one can hope.

Teriyaki Koinku posted:

Reading between the lines, tabloids painting Hillary as the Dread Tyrant and Trump as the underdog is pretty telling as to who is leading the race (read: it's Hillary. It always has been and always will up through Election Day).

Yea, it started right around Hillary really started to get ahead, and got even worse after the first election. Though doesn't someone who is friends with Trump run the enquirer?

Cracked posted an article about the Alt-Right and its language and the comments were full of "You libtards just label all people you disagree with as Alt Right! *insert horrible racist alt right stereotype language here". Not to mention getting really pissed off when someone calls them on their bullshit, but that's basically how these guys operate, they scream and yell about trigger warnings and stuff, but if anyone gets triggered, it's them.

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

As far as I can tell the neoreactionaries are Ku Klux Klan members in suits who use long words and think we should go back to absolute monarchy. The alt-right are Ku Klux Klan members in their parents' basements who use frog memes and think we should go back to fascism. So there are subtle differences, but they aren't particularly important.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

ImpAtom posted:

Okay. So why did you take "less Latinos are supporting the ACA" away from it? Because that isn't what it says. One, the numbers you quoted are the percentage of uninsured people which is influenced by the fact that more people are insured. The second is that the increase in that percentage among the Latino population isn't because of significant lack of support but nearly half of the Latinos were undocumented immigrants who are specifically excluded from the ACA.

Hell, here is a quote right from it:

Well to be honest I didn't state that "less latinos are supporting the ACA" I was asking if they were still supporting it currently as much as the may have been in the past.

I don't really know how to gauge that so I was looking for an answer.

And you do bring up a good point about illegal immigrants being excluded from the ACA. As I understand it they are also excluded from medicaid, but get covered by it somehow?

Gyges posted:

The abstract you linked says that Hispanics went from 29% of the uninsured population to 40% of the unemployed population. That is different than the uninsured rates for the Hispanic population rising from 29% to 40%.

Since the rest of the abstract talks about the share of uninsured Whites dropping and poverty being the issue, the takeaway isn't that Hispanics are dropping out of the insurance marketplace. Rather the takeaway is that the rising tide is lifting white people's boats and flooding everyone else's boats.

Did you mean uninsured, not unemployed? I didn't see that verbiage in the abstract.

Northjayhawk
Mar 8, 2008

by exmarx

bewilderment posted:

Is the alt-right the same thing as neoreactionaries? One spews overt racism and the other one just has casual racism so it's hard to tell the difference.

The alt-right are white nationalists. This is not an insult or an attempt exaggerate their views for political effect, they have articulated what they believe, and they know they are doing. Their political platform is basically the 14 words.

The absolute most charitable, kindest way to explain their views on race is that they may not necessarily be hostile to people of other races, but to them, the USA is white territory, and everyone else needs to go find their own home.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
There's an arzy article on the front page of the New York Times right now

climboutonalimb
Sep 4, 2004

I get knocked down but I get up again You are never going to keep me down
This is gonna be a lovely week
https://twitter.com/AnonymousGlobo/status/793602434337767428

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

pumpinglemma posted:

As far as I can tell the neoreactionaries are Ku Klux Klan members in suits who use long words and think we should go back to absolute monarchy. The alt-right are Ku Klux Klan members in their parents' basements who use frog memes and think we should go back to fascism. So there are subtle differences, but they aren't particularly important.

what if you're a center leftist who supports technocratic government because the modern federal government is too complicated for non-experts to make meaningful decisions on? do i get a fancy name too?

Bassetking
Feb 20, 2008

And it is, it is a glorious thing, to be a Basset King!

im gay posted:

The ACA is awful. Don't defend it.

I'll defend the document protecting me from penury and death all fuckin' day long, you ambulatory bucket of greasy ham scraps.

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.


Gyges posted:

30 years of investigations mean she's guilty as sin. In fact she's so drat guilty that she's stolen all the evidence. Plus she stole the nomination from Bernie with the help of Donna Brazile and the DNC.

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

Gyges posted:

30 years of investigations mean she's guilty as sin. In fact she's so drat guilty that she's stolen all the evidence. Plus she stole the nomination from Bernie with the help of Donna Brazile and the DNC.

she's so bad at handling classified information that she deleted it and now no one can find it!

also she's so bad being honest that she consoled grieving parents with CIA talking points to avoid disclosing classified information about benghazi being attacked because it wasn't just a diplomatic consulate like we claimed it was, what a LIAR

also the only reason we know the compound had a secret CIA base inside it is because noble republicans, who care very much about opsec, accidentally blurted it out on C-SPAN

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005

Try reading some manga!


Clever Betty

im gay posted:

The ACA is awful. Don't defend it.
My mom's got a boatload of health problems largely stemming from when she died for a few minutes when giving birth to my sister. Nobody would insure her, especially after she had a brain tumor. ACA allowed her to at least get some coverage, which when she had to be rushed to the emergency room and stay in the ICU for weeks with sepsis and acute magnesium deficiency after literally almost dying from a blood infection, she had to pay $7500. And let's not even get into her medication.

The actual cost, uninsured, likely would've been closer to ten times that. We would have lost everything. The ACA isn't perfect but gently caress you for saying not to defend it. It's a step forward.

goethe.cx
Apr 23, 2014



Nobody besides conspiracy theorists will care about connections to the (((Rothschilds)))

bencreateddisco
Dec 7, 2011

I BLEW $74K IN KICKSTARTER MONEY AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS UGLY AVATAR

this has got to be fake, right?

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

I figured they would pull something on Guy Fawkes Day (November 5th)

Instant Sunrise
Apr 12, 2007


The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.
what if you think we should all be ruled over by ai overlords and your defining document is a harry potter fanfic?

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
Surely this email related thing will sink hillary this time

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003


i'm confused, isn't the bradley foundation super right-wing, is this just some dumb hoax

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK
So, Trump cut an ad for the only woman he respects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67hVjTu5HKI

Sorry for linking a Cracked video.

axeil posted:

In NC polling data we see the GOP vote for Clinton only around 10%, which is a slightly higher than usual defection rate but not a crazy massive defection rate like 28% would be.

To put that in context, if the nationwide GOP defection rate is 28%, Clinton probably wins Texas.


Now with that said...based on my read of the methodology it seems sound. It's possible they got unlucky and got a bad sample but most polls aren't grabbing people's info from the Secretary of State's website and calling them...which is exactly what this poll did. Very unusual method, but it guarantees you're talking to actual registered voters who voted for your early vote sample.


tl;dr: I would like them to do another poll and see if they get the same results.

I'm skeptical that 28% of Florida Republicans are defecting. However, there is an argument that Florida has a comparatively idiosyncratic segment of it's Republicans which isn't present in any other state. If Trump's dealings with Castro and general racist assholery significantly turned off the Exiles it's possible that Florida ends up with the highest Republican defection rate outside Rockefeller Republican Mecca.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Hm yes this completely legitimate email about the (((Rothschilds))) giving Clinton a huge sum of untraceable cash, yes, this seems entirely legitimate.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Instant Sunrise posted:

what if you think we should all be ruled over by ai overlords and your defining document is a harry potter fanfic?

wait is the alt-right seriously based on a loving harry potter fanfic?

:laffo:

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

also the latest dispatch from Serious Alternative News Man Roger Stone: hillary's retarded and smells like farts

https://ihavethetruth.com/2016/10/31/john-podesta-hillary-is-acting-like-a-retard-she-smells-like-boiled-cabbage-urine-and-farts/

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.



i don't know who this is. wikipedia suggests they provide grants to a couple major conservative think tanks?

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

im gay posted:

The ACA is awful. Don't defend it.

You got something better that's able to pass? If not, then take the whining to someone who cares.

Dr.Zeppelin
Dec 5, 2003

axeil posted:

wait is the alt-right seriously based on a loving harry potter fanfic?

:laffo:

a name like Mencius Moldbug doesn't just come out of nowhere

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Oh cool is there a new totally fake letter that the news will freak out about for a hot second on Twitter and then it turns out 4chan or a goon made it.

Spiffster
Oct 7, 2009

I'm good... I Haven't slept for a solid 83 hours, but yeah... I'm good...


Lipstick Apathy
Going to bed depressed that because they blew their oppo load early Clinton's down ticket is so royally screwed. She may win but another 4 years of GOP stonewalling and obstruction is just way to much. Give me something that the media will run with to take Trump to task One More Time... but it won't and emails will be what causes it all.

gently caress everything :smith:

climboutonalimb
Sep 4, 2004

I get knocked down but I get up again You are never going to keep me down

Probably fake (see: "July 22th") but that won't stop Trumpkins from latching onto it.

Tlacuache
Jul 3, 2007
Cross my heart, smack me dead, stick a lobster on my head.


Bass Concert Hall posted:

On the contrary there are a lot of Hispanics who are deeply religious Catholics and believe that abortion is wrong but are pragmatic and super onboard with the government providing healthcare and employment opportunities and addressing poverty, and when push comes to shove the latter items matter a lot more than the former.

Don't get me wrong, the GOP doubling down on white supremacy and anti-immigration fearmongering is icing on the cake, but I think that they will have to more than just clean up their act to capture the Hispanic vote.

I personally only know two Hispanics voting for Trump. One is my parents' goddaughter, who is a single-issue anti-abortion voter who never moved out of the tiny town we grew up in. The other is my cousin, the army reservist who briefly worked for the Border Patrol in the early 90s.

My family has been chugging conservative Kool Aid since forever, convinced that God is on their side for voting against the gays and godless abortionists. They've also developed a major FYGM attitude since the advent of Fox News. But this election has them all furious. I've also noticed a pretty sharp divide between us cousins age-wise; the younger-than-35s are voting Hillary, and the older-than-35s are voting third party. Except that one weird cousin.

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Instant Sunrise
Apr 12, 2007


The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

axeil posted:

wait is the alt-right seriously based on a loving harry potter fanfic?

:laffo:

no i'm talking about a different internet-based technofetishist cult

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