Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Yeah I don't buy the realtor rents go up if housing prices go down thing at all.

The people renting already can't afford the houses. Unless you get some insane drop in price, that still doesn't change.

The pressure on the rental stock isn't impacted.

# ? Oct 30, 2016 21:30

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# ? May 10, 2024 12:32

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

The Butcher posted:

Yeah I don't buy the realtor rents go up if housing prices go down thing at all.

The people renting already can't afford the houses. Unless you get some insane drop in price, that still doesn't change.

The pressure on the rental stock isn't impacted.

It seems plausible to me. Prospective buyers get spooked if prices are dropping. And likely rent in the meantime, raising rental demand.

# ? Oct 30, 2016 22:44

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Every hammer jockey that's suddenly out of work in a collapse isn't staying in Vancouver paying Vancouver rents. They are moving back to Vanderhoof to make the EI go further.

# ? Oct 30, 2016 22:51

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

ocrumsprug posted:

Every hammer jockey that's suddenly out of work in a collapse isn't staying in Vancouver paying Vancouver rents. They are moving back to Vanderhoof to make the EI go further.

Also true! :lol:

# ? Oct 30, 2016 23:20

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Lexicon posted:

It seems plausible to me. Prospective buyers get spooked if prices are dropping. And likely rent in the meantime, raising rental demand.

The only renters in the city I could see doing that are the people making okay money and have been saving for awhile who are looking to move from rental apartment to buying a skybox condo. Maybe some of them decide to keep renting for a few years extra to see if prices fall. I don't think it's a big enough chunk of people in that category to really affect things much.

Anecdote, but most of the people I know who are/were in that situation want to buy RIGHT THE gently caress NOW FINALLY WE'VE GOT THE DOWNPAYMENT because they are house horny as gently caress and waiting years for a potential $50k drop in skybox cost just isn't going to happen.

And nobody is going from rental apartment --> SFH (in CoV proper) so that's pretty much a non factor.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 00:27

Square Peg: Nov 11, 2008

I really don't see rental rates increasing. Now that home prices won't be increasing 30% per year, a bunch of empty speculator condos will probably come on the market as renting them starts to become the only way they can generate revenue, especially for people who don't want to sell them at a loss.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 16:44

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

It's funny, only about 2 years ago we had family friends who were "forced" to rent out their mansion, at a rate that was barely worth it and created tons of stress, because the market just wasn't good enough for them to sell. They're finally thinking of selling now and still not totally happy with the price they'll get. The greed of people who won the housing lottery is just nuts. "But my house is only worth double what I paid for it 15 years ago!! I want triple!!"

We tell them to just sell, they said they'll sell "when the market has peaked", we ask them when they'll know that unless it's started to crash and they just say "nah, we'll know. You sell just before the market peaks!". I wish I had their amazing housing market predicting powers.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 16:57

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

Baronjutter posted:

It's funny, only about 2 years ago we had family friends who were "forced" to rent out their mansion, at a rate that was barely worth it and created tons of stress, because the market just wasn't good enough for them to sell. They're finally thinking of selling now and still not totally happy with the price they'll get. The greed of people who won the housing lottery is just nuts. "But my house is only worth double what I paid for it 15 years ago!! I want triple!!"

We tell them to just sell, they said they'll sell "when the market has peaked", we ask them when they'll know that unless it's started to crash and they just say "nah, we'll know. You sell just before the market peaks!". I wish I had their amazing housing market predicting powers.

It's like the stock market: Buy Low, Sell High. Nothing else to it.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 17:00

Square Peg: Nov 11, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

It's funny, only about 2 years ago we had family friends who were "forced" to rent out their mansion, at a rate that was barely worth it and created tons of stress, because the market just wasn't good enough for them to sell. They're finally thinking of selling now and still not totally happy with the price they'll get. The greed of people who won the housing lottery is just nuts. "But my house is only worth double what I paid for it 15 years ago!! I want triple!!"

We tell them to just sell, they said they'll sell "when the market has peaked", we ask them when they'll know that unless it's started to crash and they just say "nah, we'll know. You sell just before the market peaks!". I wish I had their amazing housing market predicting powers.

Yeah I think that ship might have sailed. Every week or so I've been checking in on the 4 SFH that are for sale on the same street as a member of my family. The list price is $1.2 mil for 3 of them and $1 mil for the fourth.
They've been listed for about 5 months now, and not one of them has sold or dropped their price. Delusion takes a long time to shake out!
(However, this is in Langley, so lol)

Square Peg fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Oct 31, 2016

# ? Oct 31, 2016 17:04

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

houses in the part of the tsawwassen where I grew up and my folks still own are listed for 1 - 2.5 mil, what the gently caress

# ? Oct 31, 2016 17:46

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

If the speculators have indeed backed out of the market and if vancouver SFH are taking a 25% haircut then those in Tsawassen and the like are going to freefall. A nice house there for someone planning to live should be like $400k.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 18:15

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Tsawwassen is a 1 million? It's time to sell

# ? Oct 31, 2016 18:18

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

I mean, it's a nice enough town, boring for a kid to grow up in, full of old people and newly-weds, and a hilariously massive mega-mall with no-one in it now that the grand-opening is over. But yeah, it's outrageous and my parents are dragging their feet on selling because they like owning a house and don't want to rent and don't know where they want to retire.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 18:23

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

From reddit, but interesting:

quote:

Vancity holds so much questionable mortgage debt it's scary. If there was a housing crash the big banks would be fine, VanCity would go tits up.

That they wrap themselves in some feel good 'local' poo poo is sickening.

quote:

Coast Capital Savings is terrified of exactly this.

There is currently a referendum going on asking their member's permission to re-incorporate as a federal organization... so they can mitigate the (word for word) "concentration risk due to our reliance on a single regional economy and the risk of a natural disaster or market correction".

# ? Oct 31, 2016 19:07

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

What's the deposit insurance on a credit union anyways?

# ? Oct 31, 2016 19:55

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Baronjutter posted:

What's the deposit insurance on a credit union anyways?

CUDICBC says all non-equity funds.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 20:07

UnfortunateSexFart: May 18, 2008; ð» ððð« ð·ððð·
ð ð ð ð« ð®ð ð¾ð ð ð¡ððð

Looks like the ease of integration into self-segregated Chinese society was a big part of why Chinese loved Vancouver. Victoria sales not going up despite not having the 15% tax:

quote:

Victoria real estate sees drop in foreign buyers

There is no indication that the 15% tax on foreign home buyers in Metro Vancouver implemented this summer is driving offshore money to the Victoria region.

The latest government statistics show the share of foreign home buyers in the Greater Victoria market has declined from 3.9% to 3.5% since the tax took effect August 2.

�So the overflow that was anticipated from the Lower Mainland to Victoria doesn�t seem to be happening,� said Advanced Education Minister Andrew Wilkinson, speaking for the government October 28.

Statistics show foreign buyers were involved in 72 sales valued at $57.4 million in the capital region from August 2 to September 30. That�s compared to 90 sales worth $62.7 million from June 10 to August 1.

Real estate watchers had speculated that the new foreign buyer tax would send offshore shoppers to the capital region instead, where prices would be driven up by increased demand.

But Greater Victoria has not seen a higher-than-usual number of foreign buyers, Mike Nugent, president of the Victoria Real Estate Board, said October 28. And now, higher priced properties appear to be sitting on the market for a longer period of time.

Nugent said that while evidence is anecdotal so far, it seems fewer Vancouver buyers with deep pockets are crossing the water to buy here.

As the capital region�s market heated up earlier this year, Vancouver homeowners were selling homes and coming to Victoria to buy in core areas. They were willing to spend in the $1.2 million-and-up market, especially in Oak Bay, Saanich East and Victoria.

But as foreign buyers left the Vancouver market, that market cooled and sales dropped in that region, Nugent said.

As a result, Vancouver residents are likely staying put, rather than selling and moving to the capital region and other destinations, he said. �Those people are not spreading out amongst the province.�

Wilkinson said the new tax has had the desired effect in Metro Vancouver.

�The market has cooled down significantly, which is what our goal was, so that purchasers can make measured and timely decisions about the biggest purchase of their life,� he said.

�We�re seeing a shift in Vancouver to the same percentage of offshore buyers as in the rest of the province.�

Foreign home buyers were involved in 13.2% of sales on the Lower Mainland prior to the tax taking effect. But that figure plummeted to 1.3% from August 2 to September 30, statistics show.

�It�s early days yet, and we don�t want to draw any firm conclusions about the net effect of the tax for a few months to come,� Wilkinson said. �But the results to date are certainly in keeping with our goals and I can�t see any quick moves to change the regime we have in place right now.�

NDP housing critic David Eby said Premier Christy Clark should apologize for ignoring the problem for so long. �This tax reflected an about-face after years of denial on the part of this government and it�s families that paid the price for that denial.�

Eby said the government still needs to fix the clumsy nature of tax, which, he said, has hit �a number of people that it shouldn�t, namely people who are living, working and paying taxes in Metro Vancouver � skilled workers that we want to stay here.� Eby said they should be exempted from the tax.

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/10/victoria-real-estate-sees-drop-foreign-buyers/

# ? Oct 31, 2016 21:42

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

It's me, I stopped the boats.

# ? Oct 31, 2016 21:56

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 4 hours!

Baronjutter posted:

It's me, I stopped the boats.

Tony Abbott?

# ? Nov 1, 2016 00:33

Pieces: Jan 25, 2011

https://twitter.com/RateSpy/status/793474665108742144

In response to Mortgage changes?

# ? Nov 1, 2016 17:46

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Oh no $60/mo on a $500,000 mortgage.

# ? Nov 1, 2016 18:33

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

cowofwar posted:

Oh no $60/mo on a $500,000 mortgage.

On top of the existing things, again putting a damper on the bottom of the market.

# ? Nov 1, 2016 18:53

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

cowofwar posted:

Oh no $60/mo on a $500,000 mortgage.

That's one less dinner out at Cactus Club.

# ? Nov 1, 2016 19:22

Purgatory Glory: Feb 20, 2005

OSI bean dip posted:

That's one less dinner out at Cactus Club.

Somebody retweet Cactus club asap!

# ? Nov 2, 2016 03:09

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

It's 2016, have we finally started to figure out why there's a housing bubble?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/foreign-buyers-tax-toronto-real-estate-investors-1.3824467

quote:

Investor interest is bringing "thousands of new buyers to the market who otherwise would not have been there," Pasalis said. "It basically is adding a significant number of offers on every property and is driving up house prices as a result."

[John Pasalis, president of Toronto-based real estate brokerage Realosophy, says investors are adding a significant number of offers on every property and driving up house prices. (Martin Trainor/CBC)]

The investors are often ordinary homeowners � not high-rolling business people � who use the equity in their primary residence to buy another house in an attempt to capitalize on the hot market, said Pasalis. "When they see prices going up 10 to 15 and now 20 per cent a year, it looks like a no-brainer."

There are also several ways an investor has a leg up in a bidding war over people looking to buy a home to live in. They don't have to make an offer conditional on selling their existing home and will often bypass a home inspection. They have big tax advantages too: Their mortgage interest payments and renovation costs are tax deductible off any income they earn from renting the house.

Pasalis adds that the investor is able to bid higher on a fixer-upper because the buyer who plans to live in a home likely wants to set aside more money for renovations than the landlord who will rent the place out.

Holy poo poo! We are actually getting somewhere here. Now let's see if our fearless leaders can help solve this problem:

quote:

Wynne said the "heart of the problem," she wants to tackle is affordability for first-time homebuyers.

So, can the provincial government do anything to dampen the effect of investors driving up house prices?

"That is a question I have asked," said Wynne. "I don't know whether there's anything that we can do. We're looking at all the options."

Wynne says she wants to avoid making any moves that would significantly hurt the value of the homes that people already own.

ok maybe the answer is more urban sprawl! Cover the greenbelt with lovely subdivisions! Commute from your new home in Barrie!

# ? Nov 2, 2016 05:07

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

eXXon posted:

quote:
Wynne said the "heart of the problem," she wants to tackle is affordability for first-time homebuyers.

So, can the provincial government do anything to dampen the effect of investors driving up house prices?

"That is a question I have asked," said Wynne. "I don't know whether there's anything that we can do. We're looking at all the options."

Wynne says she wants to avoid making any moves that would significantly hurt the value of the homes that people already own.

The only possible way to help first timers without "hurting" values is to make the current parcels cheaper by making them smaller. Bulldozer or value drop, that is it. Well, maybe with gigantic investments in transport infrastructure to bring farther flung suburbs "closer" in a total travel time sense, but I'd rate that a very distant 3rd.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 05:14

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Well if you really want to go hog wild, just give a direct subsidy to first time homebuyers! Easier for them, and house prices will rise even faster, it's an obvious win-win.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 06:26

JBark: Jun 27, 2000; Good passwords are a good idea.

PittTheElder posted:

Well if you really want to go hog wild, just give a direct subsidy to first time homebuyers! Easier for them, and house prices will rise even faster, it's an obvious win-win.

Yep, that's what they did here in Oz, and house prices just jumped up to match. And initially, it could be counted towards your deposit, so that additional 7K FHB grant gets you another 70K of house on a 90% loan. For a while the grant was tripled to 21K for new homes, plus some states added in a bit more money, so of course the "No Money Down!" home loan ads were everywhere, and the price of first homes went way up.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 08:39

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

How come there are no subsidies for first time stock market investors.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 09:51

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Or truck equity tax credits

# ? Nov 2, 2016 10:07

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

You guys need to think bigger when it comes to truck equity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezzpHG7Zs7o

# ? Nov 2, 2016 14:23

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

The government should subsidize truck nutz

# ? Nov 2, 2016 14:58

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

ronpaulitshappening.gif

https://twitter.com/CBCAlerts/status/793886403407056896

# ? Nov 2, 2016 19:50

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

eXXon posted:

It's 2016, have we finally started to figure out why there's a housing bubble?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/foreign-buyers-tax-toronto-real-estate-investors-1.3824467

Holy poo poo! We are actually getting somewhere here. Now let's see if our fearless leaders can help solve this problem:

ok maybe the answer is more urban sprawl! Cover the greenbelt with lovely subdivisions! Commute from your new home in Barrie!

I like how my city is used by almost everyone as the worst example of life and urban sprawl in Canada.

Suck it Vancouver. :smug:

e: Abbotsford apparently also beating out Vancouver for best worst city
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cmhc-issues-red-warning-amid-high-house-prices-in-bc-ontario/article32535360/

Furnaceface fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 2, 2016

# ? Nov 2, 2016 19:58

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Furnaceface posted:

I like how my city is used by almost everyone as the worst example of life and urban sprawl in Canada.

Suck it Vancouver.

e: Abbotsford apparently also beating out Vancouver for best worst city
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cmhc-issues-red-warning-amid-high-house-prices-in-bc-ontario/article32535360/

Vancouver hipster assholes are way more tolerable than racist white christian hicks in Abbotsford.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 20:33

Vehementi: Jul 25, 2003; YOSPOS

Why is it calculating # of sales vs last october, and # of offerings vs the 10 year average? Are they trying sensationalize by hiding that the # of offerings is also -40% and explains the # of sales or something?

# ? Nov 2, 2016 21:08

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Vehementi posted:

Why is it calculating # of sales vs last october, and # of offerings vs the 10 year average? Are they trying sensationalize by hiding that the # of offerings is also -40% and explains the # of sales or something?

Actually the opposite- They just grabbed the higher numbers. Sales are down 15% from the ten year average and listings are down 4.5% year over year.

Detached sales are down 55% YoY.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 22:15

dev286: Nov 30, 2006; Let it be all the best.

Fully half my coworkers live in loving Barrie. Our office is right smack dab in downtown Toronto. How they tolerate that commute every single day is a goddamn mystery.

They like it because their houses were "cheap".

But cost of gas, car, insurance and your own mental health must be worth something.

My colleague was telling me it took him THREE hours to get home the other night.

I'd loving blow my brains out.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 22:31

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

dev286 posted:

Fully half my coworkers live in loving Barrie. Our office is right smack dab in downtown Toronto. How they tolerate that commute every single day is a goddamn mystery.

They like it because their houses were "cheap".

But cost of gas, car, insurance and your own mental health must be worth something.

My colleague was telling me it took him THREE hours to get home the other night.

I'd loving blow my brains out.

Barrie to DT is nuts even by GO, I have no idea how anyone could do that. Lately I find people adjusting their working hours to avoid the worst of the traffic, 4:30 to 5:30 is bananas all over the GTA. Speaking of which traffic is light enough now for me to get home in under 45 minutes :unsmith:

# ? Nov 2, 2016 22:58

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# ? May 10, 2024 12:32

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

It took me just under 17 minutes moving time by bike to get from my office right in the middle of downtown to my incredibly affordable house in a good neighborhood full of amenities in walking distance.

GTFO of the GTA.

# ? Nov 2, 2016 23:18

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