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It may be possible to find a compatible version of nuMoO through less... legitimate... channels if you really want to stray into that territory in the name of saving the LP.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 04:30
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Maybe wait a bit- perhaps the devs didn't know how badly this would break things, and they could release a hotpatch or something soon.
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Nov 2, 2016 04:52
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CommissarMega posted:Maybe wait a bit- perhaps the devs didn't know how badly this would break things, and they could release a hotpatch or something soon. This. Just about EVERYONE in the http://steamcommunity.com/app/298050/discussions/0/312265782625616229/ thread is complaining about the pollution revamp breaking old saves, so they know there is a lot of customer dissatisfaction. That's the kind of thing that inspires good businesses to work fast to fix it. (And bad businesses to ignore it, and thus eventually go out of business.) So while the save files may be unplayable right now, they might not be so forever.
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Nov 2, 2016 08:04
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Let's hope, at least. I'd really rather continue if I can.
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Nov 2, 2016 09:19
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Planetary pollution suddenly became your downfall? The SMAC LP has cursed you!  Seriously though it sucks but if this can't be fixed I can't see why anyone would want to play through this crap. Fix your game, devs!
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Nov 2, 2016 12:53
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Apparently some people are claiming that things can be fixed after a few turns if you swap all your production workers to research or food. Not sure how much I believe it, but it's worth a try? Maybe make a backup of the save first though.
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Nov 2, 2016 18:06
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Stormgear posted:Apparently some people are claiming that things can be fixed after a few turns if you swap all your production workers to research or food. I've bought the game recently and the patch hit just a couple dozen turns into my starting game. This already put my homeworld at max pollution and it took 30 turns for the pollution to slowly fall back to a level were it stopped to cripple my food production. So I don't know how feasable powering through is if you were in late game at patch day, I guess the question is how bad was the AI hit by this change? Maybe it's not as apocalyptical when everyone has the same problems for a while. 
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Nov 2, 2016 18:47
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Stormgear posted:Apparently some people are claiming that things can be fixed after a few turns if you swap all your production workers to research or food. The problem is the rate of cleanup is too slow to get us below the threshhold of environmental degradation, and, well. Just don't want to have to deal with this.
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Nov 2, 2016 20:06
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nweismuller posted:The problem is the rate of cleanup is too slow to get us below the threshhold of environmental degradation, and, well. Just don't want to have to deal with this. Is that degradation permanent? I thought it would clean up when removing pollution. If that doesn't happen, welp I guess I'll have to restart my own game, too.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:17
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Libluini posted:Is that degradation permanent? I thought it would clean up when removing pollution. If that doesn't happen, welp I guess I'll have to restart my own game, too. Once environment deteriorates to a lower class, it can only be restored by the (long, expensive) process of terraforming- or, in the case of a gaia planet like Paradise, it needs to wait even longer in the tech tree.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:23
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Doing some more research into the topic, it looks like the reason so many planets had their pollution shoot up is because the devs thought it'd be smart to move the threshold for maximum pollution down by something like 1000 or 2000 points out of 3000. Good job guys. That totally won't break anything.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:27
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Yeah, I actually could have told you that- Earth's threshhold dropped from... 2500, I think, to 300.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:28
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Yeah, looks like the dev's commented about it:quote:Hi Guys, we are very sorry that we ruined some of your on-going games. In our attempt to keep save game compatibility we just transformed the values of the pollution in your planets to the apropriate vale in the new system.
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Nov 2, 2016 22:01
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That doesn't look promising. Sorry guys. I'll work on getting an update in my MoO2 LP out tomorrow or Sunday. This LP may be gone, but at least there's something I can still work on. Anybody need the link to the other LP again?
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Nov 2, 2016 23:59
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I just found the thread, and the unfortunate news. I can agree that the AI is balls to the walls on building frigates at the start. I had a game where I started near the Klackon and even rushing my own frigates they declared war. I'd raced to destroyer tech so I held them off but this was my 6th game in a row on learning the basic AI quirks. Also spies suck for the humans. A successful early game was ruined by Alkari spies causing Earth itself to descend into uprisings for 20 turns, which crippled my economy. Do not underestimate the power of espionage in this game!
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Nov 3, 2016 15:31
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nweismuller posted:That doesn't look promising. Sorry guys. I'll work on getting an update in my MoO2 LP out tomorrow or Sunday. This LP may be gone, but at least there's something I can still work on. Anybody need the link to the other LP again?
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Nov 3, 2016 21:31
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nweismuller posted:That doesn't look promising. Sorry guys. I'll work on getting an update in my MoO2 LP out tomorrow or Sunday. This LP may be gone, but at least there's something I can still work on. Anybody need the link to the other LP again? May as well link it.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:18
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Prism posted:May as well link it. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3792622
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Nov 3, 2016 22:27
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Sylphosaurus posted:That's a drat shame since I have to admit that I was far more interested in this LP than the MoO2 one. Yup! It is always fascinating to see someone play through a game you're getting into yourself. Nweis is a more conservative player than I am. Nweis' play style is different enough that their decisions, including the goonmind decisions, make for a very different game process. Also the RP element is a refreshing take on the newer game.
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Nov 3, 2016 23:22
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A more conservative player in what sense? I'm curious how we contrast.
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Nov 4, 2016 00:03
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http://steamcommunity.com/app/298050/discussions/0/224446340335848043/ Good news, everybody! I'll be able to revert my nuMoO install to the version I was running so that the LP can continue! I'm extremely happy that this happened, and I'll try to have something up by Thursday. There's unrelated stress in my life right now due to Relationship Things, so I'm not promising I'll have a post by then, but the Let's Play will continue! Thank you all for your continued interest. I love you all.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:24
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WOOOO
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Nov 16, 2016 00:35
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Hurray! Looking forward to it whenever you have time.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:37
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Oh hell yes!  Kudos to the developers for that little kindness.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:38
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AJ_Impy posted:Oh hell yes! Yeah, they get full credit in my book for this. It was the right thing to do and they did it.
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Nov 16, 2016 00:45
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Hooray! That's amazing news.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:25
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Yeah, that's good to hear.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:11
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I look forward to the return. E: \/ \/ \/ So soon!
Teledahn fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 05:03
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Peace and Prosperity The years following the end of the Red Masque plague on Paradise continued to be peaceful and productive for the Human Republic. By 2464, breakthroughs in materials science had led to the development of new advanced titanium alloys of greatly improved strength-to-weight ratios. Not only would the new alloys prove of great value in construction and allow for existing ships to be refitted for greater durability, their greater strength could potentially allow for massive battleships, larger than any ship previously fielded in war, to be successfully constructed. Although the construction of such new vessels would be of great military value, appropriations for such an expansion of Space Fleet seemed likely to remain far in the future.   Nonetheless, the Davy Crockett, Hugh Glass, Huscarl, and Pinaka had their armor refitted within the year at significant expense. The Pinaka's old point defense laser arrays were removed in its refit, replaced with new defensive KKV launchers as a more effective defense against hostile missile fire. Three years later, upon its return in 2467, the Arbalest was put through a major refit rebuilding it to the new Paladin escort frigate standard, and was stationed to join the Davy Crockett and Pinaka at the borders of the Mihr system.  Trade between the Bulrathi Empire and Human Republic continued smoothly, and by 2469 the ambassadors at Bulra reported on a speech made by Emperor Mazurek claiming that 'Humanity's friendship brightens a galaxy otherwise lonely for the Bulrathi of the Empire'. Although it was possible that relations between the Empire and the Republic would once again sour, for the moment all seemed well between the two governments.   Continued experience with biotechnology and ongoing research led to major breakthroughs in 2471 that paved the way for stunningly ambitious projects of ecological engineering in the Human Republic. Designs for major atmospheric plants that actively pumped the surrounding atmosphere through them, processing out impurities, could be networked into a series of plants that should be able to reprocess an entire planetary atmosphere in approximately a year. Not only would this help deal with industrial pollution on settled planets, but even the most hostile toxic atmospheres should be able to be purged and rendered inert after a hard year of work by an array of hardened atmosphere plants. Meanwhile, the development of analysis methods and chemical treatments to adjust soil chemistry in agricultural land promised to allow for incredibly healthy crop growth and improved yields on planets able to support conventional agricultural industries. Soil chemistry would need to be continually renewed and tweaked at significant expense, but the improvement in yields would more than offset the cost.      Despite the general peace of the 2460s and 2470s, piracy from the rim preying on trade shipping remained a concern, with Space Fleet skirmishing to keep raids under control. The continued blows against the strength of rim warlords and pirate kings and the stability offered by the Republic lured more immigrants in to the Republic, with an estimated billion immigrants settling on Paradise over those two decades. The Human Republic and Known Space as of 2480    Space Fleet's fixed fortifications secure all approaches to Mihr, Sol, and Tarazad, while Space Fleet's mobile forces are divided between holding the approaches to Mihr and to Segel. Trade volumes with the Bulrathi have increased by nearly 40% over the past two decades, helping secure increased prosperity both for the Human Republic and the Bulrathi Empire. A Human colonisation mission is only two years out from the planet of New Babylon in the Segel system, which shall serve to formally mark a Human claim on Segel and spread civilisation to yet another system.   Earth's population is little-increased over the past two decades, the bulk of its population growth drawn off to establish the new colony at New Babylon. Intense industrial activity over the past decades has led to major groundwater and soil contamination, but the combined effects of the new network of central atmospheric scrubbers and the existing emissions purifiers on factories and buildings seem to finally be holding new pollution in check. Existing pollution is slowly being cleaned or breaking down, but, for the moment, environmental quality has never been worse. Even so, quality of life on the capital planet remains good otherwise, with great prosperity for the population and a highly-productive research and scientific sector. New plants to manufacture the chemicals and nanoparticles to manage the soil chemistry of Earth's agricultural land are slowly entering business, although as of yet the demand by agriculture for these products is woefully underserved. Early experience with the massive atmospheric plants has revealed one drawback to their operation over and above their significant operation cost- their massive air intakes have proven to wreak havoc on local bird populations. Installing mesh gratings to keep birds out has reduced but not entirely eliminated the problem, with some birds still killed instantly on impacting the grating. Even despite this problem, having the atmospheric plants to help prevent the slow poisoning of the planet is considered far preferable to the alternative.   Between immigration and natural growth, the population of Paradise has exploded over the past decades, now well over 13 billion inhabitants. The growing population has stressed local infrastructure and led to a discontented fringe with minimal participation in the larger economy, but conditions overall remain good on Paradise. Massive expansion in fusion generation capacity has led to a similar expansion in local industry, while the implementation of modern emission scrubbing on the local industrial base has reduced the impact of this expansion on the local ecology. Even despite this, pollution has grown over the past decades on Paradise, leading to a fairly significant smog problem in its cities, and is expected to continue to slowly grow until major atmospherics plants are established on the planet. A new Space Fleet orbital headquarters here helps serve as a logistical and command center for Space Fleet, and a major defensive asset for the planet. The research sector has expanded significantly, but remains less efficient than Earth's research sector. This, however, seems likely to change as time passes, as local firms adopt the innovations in communications and data processing previously unique to Earth.   The population of Sunrise has grown to significantly over two billion, with industrial-scale hydroponics and the establishment of significant areas under cultivation massively boosting local food production, helping ensure the local population is very well-supplied. The development of modern research facilities for the as-of-yet small R&D sector on the planet has nonetheless allowed it to start contributing in at least a small way to innovation in the Republic. Local development is still heavily dependent on outside imports, as despite the growing population infrastructure has outstripped the ability of the local population to provide specialised materials and expertise with local resources. Improvement of local business methods and economic innovation on the planet is expected to mitigate local difficulties, while a strengthening of the local government is likely to take place as the colony grows better-established.  The IIA has established basic intelligence sources on every world of the Bulrathi Empire, with four field teams on operations. Team Alpha is dedicated to foreign intelligence in the Bulrathi Empire, while Teams Bravo through Delta handle counterintelligence work on every planet of the Human Republic. With sources on every world, the IIA is now capable of basic estimates on the population, economic strength, and technical advancement of the Bulrathi Empire. Human population stands at somewhat over 27 billion, over two billion greater than the Empire's population of nearly 25 billion. The Bulrathi economy nearly matches the Human economy in industrial capacity, but nonetheless is noticeably smaller and distinctly behind the Human technology curve. Overall mobile military strength of the Empire is estimated as roughly equivalent to the mobile military strength of Space Fleet, although likely spread across a larger number of hulls. The escalated taxes previously reported in the Empire have been cut back, helping to address previous unrest in the Empire.  Establishment of sources amongst hackers and data pirates on Porov has allowed a clearer picture of communications within the Bulrathi scientific and technical communities. Although Porov itself has little place in Bulrathi research, nonetheless information passed to local military and industrial sources keeping them up to date with what has been developed elsewhere is instructive. It has become clear that freeman trading houses within the Empire have begun to attempt to emulate Human corporate practises in communications infrastructure, data processing, and mining assessment. Although they remain behind the Republic's current standards, they nonetheless may reach important breakthroughs within the next several years.  Team Alpha is currently attempting to establish sources within the massively oversized heavy industrial sector on Bulra, which continues to contribute to severe contamination of soil, water, and air on the Bulrathi homeworld. Team Alpha reports that security on Bulra is extremely tight, with active efforts by Bulrathi counterintelligence to hunt for hostile intelligence assets and a network of DNA sniffers set up to monitor the presence of Human DNA in the planet's population centers. Although they believe that they may be able to complete their mission safely, they cannot guarantee their success under these conditions. Proposals for the People of the Republic Research Priorities  Ongoing research has started to yield a systematic scientific understanding of Bulrathi psychology and culture that should allow for proposals better-tailored to the Bulrathi psyche, although concrete benefits from this new science are still minimal. Research into the large-scale economic patterns yielded by large interstellar trading societies may help allow for the development of targeted import and export industries that extract greater profits and economic gains from interstellar trade, development of artificial gravity may help allow for more comfortable long-term space deployments and more economical development of certain orbital facilities, and intense research into genetic engineering may promise to unlock the hidden potential of the Human brain while presenting the long-term potential of improving marginal environments to more fertile and welcoming ecologies. Meanwhile, research into robotics and computing, although having minimal immediate economic impact, may lay the foundation for later breakthroughs in industry, data processing, and personal luxuries. Development of improved drive systems, for its part, should be a cheap and simple way to improve Human ships. Finally, a major research program into theoretical physics, engineering, and metallurgy, although likely to be massively expensive, is likely to eventually result in an immense increase in Space Fleet's strength when all is done. Please vote between Galactic Trading, Artificial Gravity, Genetic Mutations, Robotics, Advanced Fusion, or The Long-Term Military Technology Program of Four New Advances. Advanced Fusion is very quick and cheap, while the military technology program will tie up our resources for many years as things stand. If you vote for Artificial Gravity, please specify industrial or scientific applications; if you vote for Genetic Mutations, please specify intelligence augmentation or telepathic powers as a target for improvements available to the Human brain. Future Colonisation New colonisation could claim Etana, Shaghar, or Paladiaus for the Human Republic; it seems likely Humanity will spread across the Rim, taming those systems, before beginning to fill up planets left behind in systems already claimed. Please vote for a target system and target planet; if reminders are needed I can whip up a refresher briefing on those systems. Paradise Development Both plants to manufacture materials for soil chemistry adjustment and atmospherics plants are likely to be established on Paradise by the end of the next three decades, although which is a higher priority for investment remains to be seen. Please vote whether to build Soil Enrichment or a Toxic Processor on Paradise first. Sunrise Development Local development on Sunrise may be significantly accelerated by judicious infusions of investment capital, although whether the payoff is worth is is being reviewed by investors in the Republic, especially given the capital demands that are likely to be seen on New Babylon. Please vote yea or nay on a significant infusion of cash to accelerate the development of Sunrise. Military Appropriations Space Fleet is interested in commissioning a new Striker-class space control cruiser and Paladin-class escort frigate when the legislature can spare the funds, although the taxes necessary for such a project will likely cut into colonisation. Please vote between commissioning ships before our next colony ship, after our next colony ship, or saving new military vessels for when Paradise is fully developed and can serve as the shipbuilding center. IIA Activities If the IIA's Team Alpha succeeds in its current mission on Bulra despite the risks, Team Alpha's future priorities must be assessed. Analysis of Bulrathi industrial infrastructure across the Empire may provide a clearer picture of Bulrathi development, infiltration of the government and security services of outlying Bulrathi colonies may help provide a clearer picture of local defenses and provide the ability to incite revolts during wartime, while continued infilitration into all aspects of Bulra's society may be risky, but will allow a full and clear picture of the state of the Bulrathi capital. Withdrawing Team Alpha for counterintelligence is also possible, and would avoid many risks. The IIA also recommends that the government implement DNA sniffer security across the core planets when possible, despite the very heavy expense this will present. Please vote between industrial espionage, military espionage, broad-based infiltration of Bulra, or counter-espionage for Team Alpha. Also vote yea or nay on beginning to implement DNA sniffers across our well-developed worlds. The past two decades have been a period of peace, prosperity, and growth for the Human Republic, undisturbed by the tragedies or difficulties that have occasionally rocked Human expansion to the stars. With hope, this prosperity will continue into the future. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 05:11
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The vote for IIA activities was incomplete as the post was initially posted. It has been edited and fixed.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:17
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I don't have a vote to offer, but I just have to say. A computer facility so large and powerful that it needs a whole ocean to sink its heat into? That's kinda mind-boggling. What are they trying to do, break 256-bit encryption with brute force?
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Nov 17, 2016 06:12
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Yeah that bit never made sense to me. I mean, wouldn't dumping huge amounts of waste heat into your planet's oceans RAPIDLY gently caress the climate all to hell?
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Nov 17, 2016 06:29
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah that bit never made sense to me. I mean, wouldn't dumping huge amounts of waste heat into your planet's oceans RAPIDLY gently caress the climate all to hell? It depends on how 'huge' huge is, you see. The heat capacitance of the oceans is significantly higher than atmospheric heat capacitance, and given that Sufficiently Large Supercomputer Arrays are going to be limited by heat dissipation issues, it's entirely possible you get a massive supercomputer array that's larger than could effectively be cooled in an atmospheric medium (because it would fry itself first) that's still not so large it destroys the oceans' ability to serve as heat capacitors. What we're looking at here isn't any fundamental advance in computing science per se, but rather the ecological engineering chops to safely create brute-force parallel computing arrays larger than previously practical. E: Also worth noting that a lot of scientific data sets can be characterised as 'embarrassingly parallel' problems of the sort brute-force parallel arrays would be excellent at handling. Thus you end up with massive supercomputer arrays to crunch the raw numbers you collect in data sets and sift the gold of worthwhile information from them. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 06:34
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I'd ask for a quick refresher on habitable planet. Not much, just name, planet traits, and at the end a map with them visibly marked somehow. As for the rest: Toxic processor first - the less polution we make now, the longer we'll be able to drive the industry on Paradise into overdrive when the time comes. Nay on investments to Sunrise. Encouraging the government to refocus the existing population on agriculture and urban development to help quicken population growth. (which is to say, keep both pops on "food" until a 3rd pop grows) Wait for Paradise shipyards to become fully operational. - Our existing fleet is good enough for defensive action. For a fleet capable of more, we'll need more than half-measures. Low-key industrial espionage throughout the Empire, and yea on countermeasures to protect Earth and Paradise after anti-pollution measures are in place. Infiltration of developing planets doesn't pose as much of a threat to the Republic. e: Advanced fusion and genetic mutation with intelligence augmentations. (guys? 4X games. free science boost to all our pops. this is BIG) If we pick the gravity thingie, go with industrial applications. my dad fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 10:19
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There are five systems along the rim open for claim by the Republic. Spinward to driftward, they are Tyrannus, Etana, Shaghar, Paladiaus, and Marindi. Etana links to Warikomi, Paladiaus to Kif, and Marindi to Gularn, providing potential routes for the Bulrathi Empire onto the rim. Controlling both Etana and Paladiaus would effectively lock down all the rim spinward of Marindi under the Republic's control. Tyrannus has two medium-sized radiated worlds and a gas giant. Tyrannus Prime is mineral-abundant, while Tyrannus II is mineral-rich and has 'dark quartz' deposits worth +2 production. Etana has a single medium desert mineral-abundant world, but is mostly notable for its strategic position. Shaghar Prime is medium, terran, mineral-poor, Shaghar II is huge, toxic, mineral-rich, and has extensive gem deposits, but suffers from high gravitational forces, Shaghar III is medium, radiated, and mineral-abundant. Paladiaus Prime is a small, tundra, mineral-ultra-rich planet, while Paladiaus II is a small, volcanic, poor planet of nearly zero value. Marindi Prime is medium, desert, mineral-abundant, Marindi II is small, radiated, mineral-abundant, and has some ancient ruins still on its surface, worth +2 RP. Marindi also has a gas giant and asteroid belt available for exploitation. In systems we have already claimed, although I would strongly prefer claiming new systems at the moment: Mihr Prime is medium, radiated, mineral-rich, and has rich gold deposits. Mihr III is small, radiated, and abundant. Tarazad II is huge, arid, mineral-ultra-poor, and has rich gold deposits. Segel II is medium, desert, mineral-abundant, and has rich gold deposits. Segel III is small, toxic, mineral-abundant, and has ancient ruins valuable for research on its surface. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 10:43
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Paladiaus Prime, absolutely. The next priorities would be, in order, Etana and Marindi Prime.
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Nov 17, 2016 11:19
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Advanced Fusion then Genetic Mutation with Telepathy focus. I always wanted to be able to read minds. Toxic Processor no point making fertile soil if our factories are just gonna mess it up all over again. The past reveals that the first steps are the slowest and most painful for a new colony. an injection of funds on Sunrise for basic infrasturcture will quickly get it through this unproductive phase. Yea to assistance. After our current crop of colony vessels a new military cruiser would be a fine addition to the fleet. Broad infiltration and Nay to DNA sniffers. Our people should be protected from such crass invasions of our privacy.
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Nov 17, 2016 11:49
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How the hell did I miss the technology vote? Edited into my older post.
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Nov 17, 2016 11:58
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Long Term Miltech, Tox Processor, Yes to assistance, After Paradise, Broad and yay sniff.
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Nov 17, 2016 12:47
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Genetic Mutation and I really wish we could go for both subtechs but more science is probably the best of the two (and, similarly, more science if we end up going with Artificial Gravity). Gularn, I don't care that it wasn't an option you put up for vote, we need to cut off the Bulrathi from as much expansion as possible. If it doesn't have planets we can colonise/our colony ships don't have the range to get there/the Bulrathi get there first, Marindi Prime. Soil Enrichment first, pollution is more or less under control and more people is more important. Buy out some improvements on Sunrise, it'll be worth it to have the planet productive faster. Hold off on warships until we have two worlds with nothing better to do or I guess until a war happens, we probably have enough ships and stations to hold off the first wave. Military espionage so we know sooner rather than later whether holding off on warships was a bad idea. Build genetic sniffers on any planet where it's that or trade goods. Friend Commuter fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 14:15
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