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Evil Mastermind posted:Well, it's straight-up Geek Social Fallacy #1. Don't be mean and exclude someone, regardless of how terrible they are. There should be some sort of GSF corollary that states that, just because excluding people is allowed, doesn't mean that it has to be the only tactic ever used to address problems.
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Nov 2, 2016 17:03
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Got my Collector's Edition of Baby Bestiary (includes both BB 1 and 2) and it looks awesome 
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Nov 2, 2016 17:23
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Nuns with Guns posted:I think people should be allowed to decide what the line is on how tangentially they want to financially support or generally promote people they don't like
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Nov 2, 2016 17:39
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dwarf74 posted:I have no interest in how you, personally, choose to spend your money. why share your personal opinion then?
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Nov 2, 2016 17:46
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personally, I'm not going to give Monsterhearts 2 my money because I think Monsterhearts is a stupid, creepy game
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Nov 2, 2016 17:57
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Nuns with Guns posted:why share your personal opinion then?
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Nov 2, 2016 18:08
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Nuns with Guns posted:why share your personal opinion then? Are you for real?
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Nov 2, 2016 18:11
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Let's just rename this forum "Sex Moves and Edition wars"
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Nov 2, 2016 18:14
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dwarf74 posted:Is this a trick question? idk you're the one getting touchy because you expressed a personal opinion about the dangers of a slippery slope of social justice protests and I disagreed
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Nov 2, 2016 18:48
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Slippery slope my rear end, he came out in support of one of the most toxic people in the industry. It's one of the many reasons why to this day I won't buy 5e products, because Mike loving Mearls gave the monster in question a byline.
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Nov 2, 2016 18:53
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Nuns with Guns posted:idk you're the one getting touchy because you expressed a personal opinion about the dangers of a slippery slope of social justice protests and I disagreed 
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Nov 2, 2016 18:59
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Friends Are Evil posted:Here's a project I've been working on for the past two years (did most of the art for it). It's called Cryptic Explorers, and it's an assymetric sci-fi/horror game. It's also very metal. You either play as a group of explorers trying to steal occult knowledge from the Realm of Death and escape, or play as ancient occult gods trying to kill the explorers. We tried launching this last year, but we had to do some drastic retooling to make it a feasibly produceable product. Y'all should check it out. I feel personally dragged by this game, given how directly it targets my weakpoints. Occult sci-horror board game with really gruesome body horror art style and a casual presumption of femininity? Totally getting vibes of Cave Evil but without the casual misogyny. Or vibes of KD: Monster but without the really gross overt misogyny. Do I have to pledge in cash, or do you accept major organs? If the project succeeds, do the creators currently have plans to go into distribution and retail, or is this a limited press, one-and-done game like Cave Evil?
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Nov 2, 2016 19:10
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dwarf74 posted:Oh man if we're getting to the 'u mad' post already, we're way down the rabbit hole. you seem to be replying to some kind of phantom version of what I'm posting so I'm going to dial this back to the beginning to make it clear. here in this post you said a number of things: dwarf74 posted:Personally, while I'll never give money to the actual bad people doing awful things, making kinda insensitive blog posts and/or being socially inept and/or holding some actual bad opinions is hardly reason to avoid someone's products or bail on a kickstarter like Monster-freaking-Hearts-2. A kickstarter that doesn't just wear its progressiveness on its sleeve, it made a whole suit out of it. First off: while it's convenient to be able to ignore the behaviors of others, especially when they produce things you like, you are also enabling and implicitly endorsing them when you do so. If you're cool with that then whatever, don't pretend you're above the problem when you feed it though. This actually cycles right back around to the posts in question that Mark Diaz Truman made on his website here and the follow up here. I think his original beef came down to not wanting to see people drag private hurt into public view and perpetuating some kind of cycle. The problem is, the cycle he's worried about feeding would go on even if people didn't bring things out in the open. If anything, not calling attention to these issues, even if it's in a heated "gently caress off with your bullshit"-way, lets it continue on anonymously far longer than anyone should have to endure. on top of that, a few people expressing concern to Avery Alder (who has been refreshingly sympathetic) over Magpie's involvement and Avery promising to review and respond to it is not the same as "DON'T BUY THIS PRODUCT!! ITS CREATOR WAS NURSED ON THE MILK OF HITLER". Mark stomped into very tender territory and many people are still dissatisfied with his response. They should be allowed to express this dissatisfaction, and if it comes to it then they can withdraw support from Monsterhearts 2.0. Either way, I doubt it will have any lasting impact on the funding of the game. e- if you want a good summation of many of the problems people had with the blog posts, this is an excellent rebuttal: https://mechanteanemone.wordpress.com/2016/07/31/who-measures-progress/ Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 19:13
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Let's not forget that as part of his "you shouldn't call people out" rant, he called out and burned a colleague and supposed friend of his, by name. And he couched the entire thing as if it was part of a war between retro gamers and modernists or whatever the gently caress the factions are called, as if calling out a shitlord stalker was inappropriate specifically because doing so fed into this (manufactured non-conflict) war and can't we all just get along? It was tremendously hypocritical to publicly call out and burn business ties with someone who had the temerity to get mad at a bad guy and call him out, specifically for the calling-out-and-naming thing. As in, it's OK if when Diaz does it because he doesn't use the word "gently caress." Diaz' actual call to action was to not do business with someone he found unacceptable because of their words. It is extremely appropriate to not do business with him on that same basis.
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Nov 2, 2016 19:32
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If we only played the games by people who agree with people we agree with universally, the hobby is me and Bucnasti playing solo '77. It's also a Barn Door/Horse situation where Avery's made 300% of her goal by day 3 of her Kickstarter. People get a lot more from threatening to pull $18 then they ever would from a Monsterhearts Community Patch.
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Nov 2, 2016 19:39
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Nothing can stop Vampire Sexing 2
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Nov 2, 2016 19:39
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Sigma-X posted:Nothing can stop Vampire Sexting 2
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Nov 2, 2016 19:46
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Nuns with Guns posted:First off: while it's convenient to be able to ignore the behaviors of others, especially when they produce things you like, you are also enabling and implicitly endorsing them when you do so. If you're cool with that then whatever, don't pretend you're above the problem when you feed it though. This actually cycles right back around to the posts in question that Mark Diaz Truman made on his website here and the follow up here. I think his original beef came down to not wanting to see people drag private hurt into public view and perpetuating some kind of cycle. The problem is, the cycle he's worried about feeding would go on even if people didn't bring things out in the open. If anything, not calling attention to these issues, even if it's in a heated "gently caress off with your bullshit"-way, lets it continue on anonymously far longer than anyone should have to endure. What I'm saying is, a decision to back or not-back Monsterhearts shouldn't need to be justified once Mark Diaz Truman is involved, no matter how big a dummy he was. If you want to back out because of him, more power to you. But I think it's a bridge too far to call Monsterhearts's backers "enablers" even if they have publicly disagreed with his handling of the situation.
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Nov 2, 2016 20:03
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dwarf74 posted:But I think it's a bridge too far to call Monsterhearts's backers "enablers" even if they have publicly disagreed with his handling of the situation. Where did this happen?
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Nov 2, 2016 20:11
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Serf posted:Where did this happen?
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Nov 2, 2016 20:22
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Golden Bee posted:If we only played the games by people who agree with people we agree with universally, the hobby is me and Bucnasti playing solo '77. dwarf74 posted:Where I disagree is with the first sentence. No, I do not think there is an implicit endorsement of all factors of a person when I purchase a product, and while you can certainly hold yourself to any standard you wish, I think it's an unreasonable standard to hold the gaming community at large to. I don't think it makes sense for the gaming 'industry' when it doesn't really make sense for the world at large. I mean, my wife and I choose not to go to Chick-Fil-A or Hobby Lobby because of their actual anti-woman/anti-gay activism, but I can't avoid entirely using companies that donate to, say, the RNC or Chamber of Commerce. I never said you (general you) should never support anyone who isn't an exact clone of you politically or go out and topple the GOP/establishment with your wallet. This is a small hobby where it's possible to engage with creators on a personal basis and give them feedback on what is or isn't an acceptable level of public behavior regarding the community's reaction to stalkers. Feel free to use your discretion on what you want to buy but if you're just standing mutely by then no, you're not doing anyone any good. Other people have obviously spoken to Avery and that is their right. I don't plan on contributing to Monsterhearts 2.0 because I've not enjoyed MH 1.0. The entire blowup was definitely enough to put me off of buying 7th Sea 2.0 or Masks, but fortunately I have a surprisingly large pile of other games to play rn whose designers have not publicly flashed their asses in the last 6 months. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 20:23
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sorry, missed this beforedwarf74 posted:It's how I read Nuns's first sentence. If I misread, my apologies. If someone is aware of the reasons for the discomfort, is also uncomfortable due to it, but still contributes without raising any objections, then yes that's enabling the problem. Yes, a lot of things facilitate a lot of misery and death in this world, and no, most of the time you can't prevent it or avoid it so long as you're comfortable living in a modern Western nation. Maybe it could be fixed by toppling the entire structure from the ground up? That doesn't really matter to the purview of this thread. On a more reasonable scale, if we find often ourselves rocking back and forth on our shells whining "help me.... i can't stop buying elfgames made by assholes" while our little legs wiggle in the air, then maybe that's a sign that the hobby isn't worth salvaging? I'd like to think it is, but saying it's not worth bothering with since president trump is going to kill us all within the year won't get that rolling.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:03
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At the risk of derailing this conversation, I got my copy of Foe Hunters yesterday and it looks good, I wish the layout of the manual was better, but the production values overall are pretty legit. I don't know when I'll have the chance to actually play it, of course, but it looks like it will be easy to teach and pick up, so I've got high hopes for it. I hope they're able to get some expansions rolling in short order because with only three foes to hunt, I'm not sure how well it will hold up to replaying at first.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:36
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/347698129/dialect-a-game-about-language-and-how-it-dies This looks amazing
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Nov 3, 2016 01:55
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This derail is why we needs a new grognards.txt. I can't even remember which one of these people is secretly Z ak s.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:18
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xiw posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/347698129/dialect-a-game-about-language-and-how-it-dies  Shame I'm the only person in my group that'd want to try this.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:21
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:
Me too.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:25
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xiw posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/347698129/dialect-a-game-about-language-and-how-it-dies One Shot did a two-episode podcast of it with one of the creators a few weeks ago: http://media.blubrry.com/one_shot_collection/p/audio.simplecast.com/48952.mp3 [Ep 1] http://media.blubrry.com/one_shot_collection/p/audio.simplecast.com/49531.mp3 [Ep 2]
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Nov 3, 2016 02:28
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xiw posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/347698129/dialect-a-game-about-language-and-how-it-dies EDIT: Guess I'll just get the PDF.
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Nov 3, 2016 13:53
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Mega Man Pixel Tactics just launched. Already a quarter of the way to the goal.
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Nov 3, 2016 17:45
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Illimat is down to the last few hours https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/twogetherstudios/illimat If you haven't checked it out, it's a card game created by The Decembrists to kill time between shows and fleshed out by Keith Baker of Eberron and Phoenix: Dawn Command fame. They wanted to create a game that feels like something you would play in the back room of gentlemen's clubs 2-300 years ago. The card art is done by the the band's official illustrator and has a beautiful old timey feel it.
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Nov 3, 2016 19:22
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I really wanted to back Ilimat, but I just can't afford it right now. Luckily a friend is getting it, so I'll be able to play the hell out of his copy.
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Nov 3, 2016 19:38
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jivjov posted:Mega Man Pixel Tactics just launched. Already a quarter of the way to the goal. They are over already! From the look of the preview card I really hope they aren't getting rid of the icons on the abilities...
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Nov 3, 2016 20:35
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LordAba posted:They are over already! They mentioned during the livestream that there's some issues with capcom with mixing Mega Man and non-mega man art assets. That's why the card backs are new and don't match other Pixel Tactics products. So if they want to use ability icons, they'd have to make brand new ones, most likely using Capcom art assets, and then get each and every icon approved by the legal team.
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Nov 3, 2016 20:41
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Illimat is down to the last few hours I love the Decemberists, but $45 is pretty drat steep for a pretty basic card-collecting game, even if the pieces look stunning. Also, the Stockpile/Harvesting rules are REALLY badly explained in the rulebook. There are a lot of ill-defined edge cases. Like, can I harvest single cards AND a stockpile with a single Harvest action? Can I Harvest Multiple stockpiles? You can combine cards in a Harvest, so can I play a 7 to combine a lonely 2 with a 2-3 stockpile? Or to combine an A-2 pile with an A-3 pile? This is some pretty awful rules documentation for what basically amounts to a standard poker-deck game. And even if these cases have definitive answers, imagine teaching this poo poo. Chris Funk clearly does a pretty poo poo job of it in all the Watch-It-Played videos for the campaign. Like, I wanted to like the thing. The Field and Luminary ideas are really nifty (and yes, I felt very happy when I got the References) but the game underneath just isn't supporting them. And the okus tokens seem really...uh, token?  Like, they're clearly supposed to be a Significant Thing, according to update #8:quote:From the beginning, Illimat has been about building a narrative - a game that could have existed in the past, that could be tied to a secret society, that could have a long list of traditions and tales. One of our first ideas was that experienced Illimat players would bring their own okus to the table: that an okus would be an object with some sort of personal significance, and the first thing you’d do is to lay your okus on the table. Carson Ellis has a bear tooth. Keith Baker has an old silver dollar. Jenn Ellis has an unusual key. The Kickstarter exclusive Variants & Apocrypha booklet goes into more detail about the story behind the okus and different ways to use them in play. ...but a generic extra point token just doesn't have the appropriate gravitas to be "personal?" At least, not compared to something like the Capstone in Tak. I mean, when it comes to creating a board game out of a fictional conceit, Keith Baker just ain't no James Ernest, I gotta say. EDIT: Also, I'm really salty that the Variants & Apocrypha book is a KS exclusive. Both because they're gating Significant Game Content behind the KS blind-buy, and also because, like, the whole reason to want this game is because of the faux mythical Significance and poo poo. And locking that away from the retail crowd just seems self-defeating? gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 20:42
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Shipping for Illimat is pricey, but I live in New Zealand so I'll take what I can get. It still works out cheaper than buying games at retail so 
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Nov 3, 2016 21:06
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jivjov posted:They mentioned during the livestream that there's some issues with capcom with mixing Mega Man and non-mega man art assets. That's why the card backs are new and don't match other Pixel Tactics products. So if they want to use ability icons, they'd have to make brand new ones, most likely using Capcom art assets, and then get each and every icon approved by the legal team. Drat! That'll make things a bit harder to mix, but I guess it shouldn't be a big deal for teaching since you would either stick straight to normal tactics or megaman. Not that I've ever crossplayed two Pixel Tactic decks yet... I might have to try that this weekend. I hope they have a Might Number 9 crossover except it would be years late and mediocre at best. 
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Nov 4, 2016 02:23
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LordAba posted:Drat! That'll make things a bit harder to mix, but I guess it shouldn't be a big deal for teaching since you would either stick straight to normal tactics or megaman. Not that I've ever crossplayed two Pixel Tactic decks yet... I might have to try that this weekend. Opaque backed sleeves are your friend. Then you can mix Pixel Tactics Mega Man, Dominion, and Magic the Gathering in the same deck if you really wanted to.
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Nov 4, 2016 03:42
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Got my wave 1 of Conan boardgame today.    Wave 2 still to come, which includes the big expansions, but this lot included the full box of King pledge, all the stretch goals, and the add-ons I bought. They're following up with a revised rulebook later, which will be free to backers, since some folks identified some stuff that wasn't totally clear in the rule book. Unboxed but not played yet. Generally the components are excellent. All of the small tiles and a lot of the other components are duplicated in French and English, and they went to the trouble of giving the French cards and tiles different colors - which means you can use them alongside the English ones in a game, e.g., you can make up scenarios that have more pictish warriors or whatever, and you'll have the extra tiles to use. They probably could have made a lighter shipping weight by packaging French and English versions separately, but this worked out to be cheaper for them, and since most of the duplicated stuff is at least marginally useful for all owners, it's a nice bonus. A few of the minis aren't as good as the others. The sabertoothed tiger in particular is kind of bleh. For some reason some minis are in a lighter grey plastic than others, and it might just be due to lack of contrast but it sure looks like the lighter ones don't have as good detail. But even so, the light grey ones are quite good for board game components, and the dark grey ones are fantastic. I'm already sold on the gameplay based on videos and the rules that were available during the kickstarter. Nothing I've seen so far suggests I was wrong. The game has scenarios for anywhere from two to five players, and given the components included, you could easily run a six-player game if you wanted... I've no doubt if you didn't want to make up a scenario, there will be some online. Anyway I went in on this one pretty big. I hope it's available at retail not too long from now. This might be the best "expensive" kickstarter I've done so far - Reaper Bones were great in terms of value, but the quality in this one is much higher, and most of the minis are really looking like things I want to paint.
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Nov 4, 2016 05:42
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Leperflesh posted:Got my wave 1 of Conan boardgame today. Whereabouts are you? I went allll in on this one myself (even went in on the RPG for the extra board game goodness), hoping to see an arrival soon.
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