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Henchman of Santa posted:I'm guessing they never used him again because I've never even heard of him. Yeah it was his first and last piece for Grantland/ESPN.
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Oct 31, 2016 01:34
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sportsgenius86 posted:The whole thing was completely hosed up. The editors totally poo poo the bed on it. It would have been a remarkably interesting story without anything about her being trans involved. They just blew it completely. Here's the thing about the Dr. V piece: -The first 3/4s of it was outstanding journalism, well-researched and reported. It was good journalism, and an example of why people don't want good journalism no matter how much they clamor for it. Good journalism doesn't give a gently caress about the feelings of the subjects involved or the people reading it. Good journalism only cares about the facts and lays the facts out, no matter who ends up being burned by them. The truth is the absolute line of defense against any counter-claims or opinions, and the truth is that Dr. V wasn't who they presented themselves as. -The last 1/4 of the piece, once it became established that Dr. V was trans, was handled exceptionally poorly. The "chills" line was a major faux paux, as well outing Dr. V to an investor; that was not the job of the journalist pre-publication. Yet it remains a crucial fact of the story that Dr. V was not who they claimed to be, and to what degree their gender identity played is unknown . -The author should not have stopped digging once Dr. V threatened suicide because threats cannot and should not stop good journalism. I understand this is apples and oranges, but a reporter shouldn't stop digging up info on a politician because the politician threatens suicide. The counter-argument to that is the politician was a public figure and Dr. V wasn't, but to that I say that once Dr. V agreed to be the subject of the story, their background became fair game for the piece. -The other catalyst here is that Twitter/social media is hypersensitive to social issues and has an outsized voice in raising said issues. Fair or not, the first 3/4s of the piece became irrelevant once the last 1/4 took place. Add in that there's nothing other online media companies love than taking shots at one another, and once they could write a story of "Grantland/Bill Simmons/ESPN Outed and Killed a Trans Person" the wheels were off the bus. If I was editing the piece, I probably would have killed it. Trans-issues are incredibly sensitive to report on, yet were entwined in the piece. Dr. V was a fraudster, but leaving out their gender identity wouldn't be telling the whole story, and as much as I hate to say it once you have reason to question one part of someone's background you have to question the whole thing. Whether killing the story would have saved Dr. V's life is unknown, but sometimes stories just get too complicated to tell.
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Oct 31, 2016 01:52
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Yeah it's basically that it wasn't a bad piece, just showed a pretty bad lack of... I guess tact is the word.
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Oct 31, 2016 01:54
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I disagree with a person being trans having anything to do with deceiving others about who they are.
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Oct 31, 2016 02:06
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Dr V lied about drat near everything. Being trans was just part of a sordid history she'd covered up and continually lied about. (Not saying being trans is negative)
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Oct 31, 2016 02:08
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Kibner posted:I disagree with a person being trans having anything to do with deceiving others about who they are. But you see if they hide THAT.... gently caress man I could be a sportswriter.
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Oct 31, 2016 02:08
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milk milk lemonade posted:Dr V lied about drat near everything. Being trans was just part of a sordid history she'd covered up and continually lied about. (Not saying being trans is negative) If being trans isn't negative then it has nothing to do with her "sordid history." Lying about your qualifications or whatever is not in the same category as choosing not to out yourself
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Oct 31, 2016 03:08
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I agree, and I think it was overkill considering the topic centered around golf equipment. Obviously there were some nerves struck for people that are transgendered as well. But Dr V lied about a whole lot, which was what ultimately led to the investigative reporting.
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Oct 31, 2016 03:20
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milk milk lemonade posted:Dr V lied about drat near everything. Being trans was just part of a sordid history she'd covered up and continually lied about. (Not saying being trans is negative) I disagree. Dr. V was pretty scummy in general but nothing of that had to do with her being trans and unless there's some kind of irrefutable proof that a transition was tied to the club or past shady dealings, it's irrelevant. The problem here is that her being trans is not her actively covering up anything. Being trans is not a cover up or a lie. It's the opposite of one in the eyes of most. Had there been some sort of irrefutable proof that the transition occurred as a way to deceive anyone past or present related to business dealings, fine, but there's no indication at all that this was the case. That was the central dilemma here. It's very very easy to look at it and include it as a part of the deception but it's not. I agree with one of the posts above that the threat of suicide should not have played a role in any editorial decisions. I would've killed the piece on the basis of the writer telling an investor. Had the writer not told the investor, I would've chopped out any mention of her being trans. If the article led to someone uncovering her being trans through their own research, that's not Grantland's problem. milk milk lemonade posted:I agree, and I think it was overkill considering the topic centered around golf equipment. Obviously there were some nerves struck for people that are transgendered as well. But Dr V lied about a whole lot, which was what ultimately led to the investigative reporting. It was only overkill as it related to her being trans. It ceased centering around golf equipment once it was discovered that she had lied about her credentials. The research led the focus of the piece to be about the creator above the club. None of that means the trans issue should've been mentioned at all, but the writer had every right to tear her apart for what she was actually being deceptive about. Truther Vandross fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 05:43
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Bill Simmons got 'ambushed' by TMZ to say the indians will win tonight
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Nov 2, 2016 00:54
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Burneko is so salty.
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Nov 2, 2016 01:08
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Niwrad posted:Burneko is so salty. he's right tho
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Nov 2, 2016 06:27
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I just remembered Phil Mushnick exists and gently caress that guy.
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Nov 3, 2016 22:22
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Lockback posted:By all accounts Simmons was a fantastic manager of creative talent at Grantland, something that is very difficult and many, many promising projects have failed due to poor management of talent. I haven't really seen him cultivate new creative at HBO, which is a shame. It is easy to be a fantastic manager of creative talent when you have deep pockets, no pressure to produce click views, and the backing of the biggest media company on the planet. My wife's closest friend is a senior editor at a major newspaper. All of her stress with regards to her job is ownership trying to get her division to generate more page views and writers who refuse to get with the program and write stuff to generate those views. As for the Dr. V stuff, the thing to remember is that this was about a god drat putter and that Hannan knew that Dr. V had a history of attempted suicides. In fact, as Hannan himself said: https://blog.longreads.com/2015/07/20/dr-v-writer-caleb-hannan-speaks-for-the-first-time-about-what-went-wrong/ quote:“Some of the first words out of her mouth were, ‘There’s a chance this woman is going to hurt herself,’ and I said, ‘I know and I’m scared shitless, and I don’t know what to do,’ and she said, ‘Okay I just want to make sure I said that.’ And that’s a conversation I immediately should have taken to my editor, but I didn’t.” Like, this isn't a "who would have guessed?" type of scenario.
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Nov 4, 2016 05:21
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joepinetree posted:It is easy to be a fantastic manager of creative talent when you have deep pockets, no pressure to produce click views, and the backing of the biggest media company on the planet.
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Nov 4, 2016 05:53
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I wouldn't use Whitlock as a barometer of whether something is easy.
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Nov 4, 2016 06:47
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As much as I've been enjoying the Ringer lately I absolutely cannot deal with how EVERY article has a shoehorned reference to Westworld in it. Jesus Christ, I know HBO is funding it but there already multiple pieces about the show every week--it doesn't need to leak into pieces about the loving World Series.
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Nov 4, 2016 13:50
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Grantland certainly never had forced pop culture references
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Nov 4, 2016 14:22
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Jackie D posted:Grantland certainly never had forced pop culture references Their forced pop culture references were about a variety of things, not one specific program from the parent company.
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Nov 4, 2016 14:24
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Grantland loved constantly comparing poo poo to Game of Thrones
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Nov 4, 2016 15:32
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Y'all are deliberately missing the point. The only way it could be more obvious that HBO is pushing them to talk about their shows as much as possible is if every reference to it also included "Sundays on HBO at 10 eastern/9 central."
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Nov 4, 2016 15:43
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I'm more than willing to say the same thing if they were writing articles comparing basketball players to Girls characters, but Westworld has a big enough presence in the zeitgeist to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Nov 4, 2016 15:55
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Here's another wrinkle in the discussion, possibly: The Ringer just put up another article all about Westworld and suggesting other worlds they'd like. It ends with this line: Disclosure: HBO is an initial investor in The Ringer. I'm not 100% certain, but that doesn't prove they are getting paid to plug Westworld, just that they are in a situation where people might think they are?
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Nov 4, 2016 16:31
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I just want to point out that Brian Windhorst thinks the phrase is "raffle off 56-57 wins."
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Nov 4, 2016 16:33
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projecthalaxy posted:Here's another wrinkle in the discussion, possibly: The Ringer just put up another article all about Westworld and suggesting other worlds they'd like. It ends with this line: No, its what you're supposed to put regardless as a conflict of interest disclaimer. I think Groucho Marxist is right, they are just playing off the pop culture aspect of the show, I don't think HBO is actually pushing them (or need to actually push them).
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Nov 4, 2016 17:00
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projecthalaxy posted:Here's another wrinkle in the discussion, possibly: The Ringer just put up another article all about Westworld and suggesting other worlds they'd like. It ends with this line: That's for all the stuff that's specifically about Westworld. Grantland did the same thing with Disney properties. I'm complaining when it comes up elsewhere.
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Nov 4, 2016 17:47
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Akileese posted:I know some people around here REALLY dislike Simmons but this is straight up revisionist history. 30 for 30 was excellent and Grantland was significantly more than "halfway decent". Citing two writers when they had a dozen or more quality contributors every week is mind blowing. On top of that, he's capable of pulling out some really great podcasts when he has guests who he admires. It's the ones with his buddies that are unbearable. Counterpoint: Any of the podcasts with Al Michaels But that's probably just because Al Michaels is great
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Nov 4, 2016 18:09
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Bill Simmons' Any Given Wednesday on HBO has been cancelled, last episode will air November 9th. Edit: http://deadspin.com/hbo-cancels-bill-simmonss-any-given-wednesday-1788587461 "The decision was mutually agreed upon by HBO and Simmons, who joined the network in July of 2015." Blast Fantasto fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 19:25
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good
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Nov 4, 2016 20:10
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Bill Simmons will be the last person to figure out that Bill Simmons is an awful television presence
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Nov 4, 2016 22:43
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corn on the cop posted:Bill Simmons will be the last person to figure out that Bill Simmons is an awful television presence Well considering their was a mutual agreement that the show wasn't good and needed to be canned I don't think that's the case.
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Nov 5, 2016 00:08
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from what i can tell the show was just him reading the equivalent of a column over some clumsily photoshopped pictures
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Nov 5, 2016 00:42
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Yeah the show needed better writers in the worst way, it was entirely carried by whether the guest was funny/charismatic/good on camera or not. That said I'm kind of going to miss it. I'd watch Simmons interview NBA players/Vince Staples any day before I'd ever watch John Oliver's latest evisceration. Props Department fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 00:46
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Blast Fantasto posted:Bill Simmons' Any Given Wednesday on HBO has been cancelled, last episode will air November 9th. Good, especially if this means he gets good guests back on the podcast. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did after the train-wreck of a first episode.
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Nov 5, 2016 00:50
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I still don't get why HBO thought this was a good idea. "Sport Take" shows are basically just mid-day filler. Why would they think this would work in primetime when actual sports are on? Just like with Bayless, it's one of those moves that hurt both sides. ESPN loses a popular personality who drew traffic/eyes and the new outlet spends a ton of money for a show that didn't bring it's audience with.
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Nov 5, 2016 04:49
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Henchman of Santa posted:That's for all the stuff that's specifically about Westworld. Grantland did the same thing with Disney properties. I'm complaining when it comes up elsewhere. I don't read the ringer enough to be able to comment, but "the watch" podcast really went out of its way to praise the night of. They went so far as to argue that it was brilliant because all its shortcoming were really a comment on what people expected from crime procedurals. It felt really forced.
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Nov 5, 2016 05:14
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joepinetree posted:I don't read the ringer enough to be able to comment, but "the watch" podcast really went out of its way to praise the night of. They went so far as to argue that it was brilliant because all its shortcoming were really a comment on what people expected from crime procedurals. It felt really forced. The night of was really loving good and was praised by almost everyone who does tv criticism Niwrad posted:I still don't get why HBO thought this was a good idea. "Sport Take" shows are basically just mid-day filler. Why would they think this would work in primetime when actual sports are on? weren't you defending why the show was worth it for HBO despite low ratings, like, a page ago MourningView fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 06:38
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MourningView posted:The night of was really loving good and was praised by almost everyone who does tv criticism I thought the common line on that show was that it got kind of rocky after the second episode. But I might be getting a little bit of TV IV and my own opinions mixed in.
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Nov 5, 2016 06:58
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MourningView posted:weren't you defending why the show was worth it for HBO despite low ratings, like, a page ago Yeah. I didn't realize the ratings for it were so low. Thought it was doing like 300k or so.
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Nov 5, 2016 07:05
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MourningView posted:The night of was really loving good and was praised by almost everyone who does tv criticism Reviews for the second half were mixed and Ryan/greenwald picked it over Mr robot.
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Nov 5, 2016 08:07
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