|
While I know just about nothing about what specific incident precipitated this step Green Ronin is taking, experience from any other site shutting down their forums/comment sections (such as, say, NPR) is that unless you invest heavily in moderation, your community is almost always going to get overrun by trolls because the people with the worst opinions also tend to be highly motivated towards making sure those opinions get heard. At some point "the inmates take over the asylum" becomes an inevitability without lots of absolutely non-neutral intervention.
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
Even otherwise benign forums eventually turn garbage without moderation. In-jokes and "crews" develop, and before long everything is a worthless chat thread. Honestly this is one of the few places on the entire internet that does a decent job.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
And everybody entrenched in a given forum becomes convinced that they're the one exception. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
I wonder how much of this had anything to do with the Blue Rose revival because that game seems to draw shitheads out of the woodwork like a magnet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 01:36
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:While I know just about nothing about what specific incident precipitated this step Green Ronin is taking, experience from any other site shutting down their forums/comment sections (such as, say, NPR) is that unless you invest heavily in moderation, your community is almost always going to get overrun by trolls because the people with the worst opinions also tend to be highly motivated towards making sure those opinions get heard. At some point "the inmates take over the asylum" becomes an inevitability without lots of absolutely non-neutral intervention.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Well, that's part of it. The other problem is the depressingly common idea that being banned/blocked/whatever from a forum is somehow "censorship", and that people have to hear your lovely opinions or hostile posting or racist screeds because FIRST AMENDMENT. That's sort of what I mean when I say "non-neutral intervention". Moderation can't be about maintaining a platform for free speech in the face of deplorable views. You have to ban the deplorables, and that's absolutely going to lead you being called out as biased, but kowtowing to them means you ruin your community otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
Agronox posted:Even otherwise benign forums eventually turn garbage without moderation. In-jokes and "crews" develop, and before long everything is a worthless chat thread. I usually just ask a lot of questions and post exageratted statements. Also, how important is a company having online forum? Blue Rose rules!
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 03:48
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:That's sort of what I mean when I say "non-neutral intervention". Moderation can't be about maintaining a platform for free speech in the face of deplorable views. You have to ban the deplorables, and that's absolutely going to lead you being called out as biased, but kowtowing to them means you ruin your community otherwise. The only people who would call you out for banning bigoted scum are themselves bigot scum. And their opinions don't matter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 04:33
|
|
|
I've not personally used the Green Ronin forums and I used to hate it when people would bring builds from the Atomic Think Tank to Mutants and Masterminds games. That said, it is helpful sometimes to have a forum dedicated to whatever small or obscure game you're playing. Sure, RPG.net and this place exist and all, but it's really easy for stuff to get lost in the traffic. I really can't fault smaller shops for not wanting to deal with the headache of a forum these days though, hosting is an expense on the already-thin margin of RPG publishing and the omnipresent assholes make moderation such a chore. I guess if the staff isn't interested in making the forum an active part of their interactions with the fanbase it could work, but we've seen what a mixed bag developers on forums can be already.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
neongrey posted:And everybody entrenched in a given forum becomes convinced that they're the one exception.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 08:38
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:That's sort of what I mean when I say "non-neutral intervention". Moderation can't be about maintaining a platform for free speech in the face of deplorable views. You have to ban the deplorables, and that's absolutely going to lead you being called out as biased, but kowtowing to them means you ruin your community otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 09:31
|
|
|
Also see the Paizo forum's bimonthly "was racism really that bad guys, cause I don't think it should warrant an evil alignment" threads.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 09:43
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Also see the Paizo forum's bimonthly "was racism really that bad guys, cause I don't think it should warrant an evil alignment" threads. It was impressive when that guy came here and complained about getting banned from there for that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 14:56
|
|
|
Covok posted:Also, how important is a company having online forum? Blue Rose rules! While it's possible to "build buzz" and "build a community" using public/generic social media like reddit or G+ or even Facebook, having your own forums gives you more control over it, and if your game has any sort of online presence at all, such as publishing errata or "character optimization" discussions in a system-mastery-heavy game, being able to point them to myGame.com/forums is a lot more centralized and professional-sounding than pointing them to reddit.com/r/myGame I mean, maybe the Giant in the Playground folks (or whatever) have a better grip on how to make a good Warlock, but intuitively a person's going to go to dungeonsandragons.com first. Maybe this'll shift eventually if there's enough of an abandonment of game-specific and company-specific forums that the intuitive move is to look for the associated subreddit, but as far as I know that hasn't quite happened yet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
Also not sending people to reddit doesn't normalize a platform used for sexual assault and harassment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 17:23
|
|
|
Arivia posted:Also not sending people to reddit doesn't normalize a platform used for sexual assault and harassment. There is also that, with the site being the ultimate expression of "neutral" moderation (where it even exists) eventually leading to the deplorables running roughshod over most discussions except in the most niche of ingroups.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Moderators within a subreddit have all the power and tools to be effective. The biggest problem is that overall site moderation is unwilling to do anything about disgusting or abusive subreddits, and there is little recourse against an abusive user besides banning them from one specific subreddit
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:Moderators within a subreddit have all the power and tools to be effective. Reddit's a hosting platform, not a web forum in and of itself, which is why white supremacist tumblrs still continue to be a thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
I would recommend people not go to tumblr for a social platform for the same reason. Tumblr's only real use is basically being an easier to search imgur.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 19:13
|
|
|
Don't use any social platform, because you're not in control of your own pages, and don't own anything on them, but are still legally responsible for anything posted on them in several jurisdictions. Any person working in community worth listening to, such as me, will tell you to host your own forums, or if you can't afford the resources to run it properly, don't run one at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Tangential to this discussion but another related example of what happens when you don't effectively moderate things is Twitter's ongoing difficulties with providing effective moderation, which have recently resulted in several prospective buyers passing over them because they don't want their reputation tarnished as a result of owning the social media service responsible for, say, running Leslie Jones off with a flood of racist and sexist harassment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
Twitter world rather have roving bands of Nazis harassing people than millions of dollars, which seems like bad priorities to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
Twitter has had bad priorities from day 1, and honestly I think "is full of literal nazis" is actually less important to the people looking to buy twitter than the "twitter has literally never made money" problem. Twitter is a money pit for stupid VCs to throw money into since day one and has actively avoided any and all ways it can change to actually get money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:09
|
|
|
The fallout from this should be interesting, and by "interesting" I mean "rage-inducing".
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
I appreciate the internet's hatred of those who main Honzo. It is a fitting punishment that they be compared to Trump.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:The fallout from this should be interesting, and by "interesting" I mean "rage-inducing". I never let major parties get out of a jam this easily. Being forced to lose an election every once in a while keeps the well-funded centrists from taking their electorate for granted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:21
|
|
|
You know I'd agree if this was McCain v Obama again but the lizard people have made sure that all three possible not-Hillary options are nation-ending level stupid.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:25
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I never let major parties get out of a jam this easily. Being forced to lose an election every once in a while keeps the well-funded centrists from taking their electorate for granted. nice
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:I appreciate the internet's hatred of those who main Honzo. It is a fitting punishment that they be compared to Trump. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:40
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:The fallout from this should be interesting, and by "interesting" I mean "rage-inducing".
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:The fallout from this should be interesting, and by "interesting" I mean "rage-inducing". only one game on this list doesn't suck
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 01:55
|
|
|
From the comments, I also spot: Steve Peterson, co-designer of Champions, designer and author Allen Varney, writer and game designer (PARANOIA) Aaron Forsythe, Sr. Director of Magic: The Gathering R&D, Wizards of the Coast David Williams, game designer (Legend of the Five Rings, Doomtown, 7th Sea...) Andy Collins, game designer (State of Decay 2, Dungeons & Dragons) Ray Winninger, game designer (UNDERGROUND, DC HEROES, TORG, DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, TITANSGRAVE, MARVEL SUPERHEROES, STAR WARS, DESCENT, et al) Matt Forbeck, author and game designer (Dungeonology, Marvel Encyclopedia). Matt Tabak, Editor and Game Designer (Magic: The Gathering, Duel Masters) Sean K Reynolds, designer/community manager/project wrangler (TSR, Wizards of the Coast, Interplay, Upper Deck, Paizo, Monte Cook Games) Shannon Appelcline, game author and historian (Designers & Dragons) Dennis Detwiller, Creator of Delta Green, GODLIKE and Magic: The Gathering
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 02:20
|
|
|
Who the gently caress is going to be persuaded by this? Like sure, trump sucks, but is anyone going to vote because a pathfinder writer told them to?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
rumble in the bunghole posted:Who the gently caress is going to be persuaded by this? Like sure, trump sucks, but is anyone going to vote because a pathfinder writer told them to? For me it's more like "well who aren't we going to find on this list"? Like, sure, Sean K Reynolds is a lovely Pathfinder designer, and Shanna Germain denied the whole "beaner" thing in Numenera as being possibly insensitive, but if there's an ounce of respect to be had in them endorsing Clinton/against Trump.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
rumble in the bunghole posted:Who the gently caress is going to be persuaded by this? Like sure, trump sucks, but is anyone going to vote because a pathfinder writer told them to? it lets you know which Brands to support with your future tabletop rpg investments
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
I thought I hated the letter because it's juvenile drivel that reduces real grownup issues to lovely tropes and nerdspeak. And it is. But when I sat down and was honest with myself, I realized that it's probably perfectly written for the level of the target audience to engage with, and that's what actually upsets me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
TG as an Industry - Reducing real grownup issues to lovely tropes and nerdspeak
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:For me it's more like "well who aren't we going to find on this list"? Like, sure, Sean K Reynolds is a lovely Pathfinder designer, and Shanna Germain denied the whole "beaner" thing in Numenera as being possibly insensitive, but if there's an ounce of respect to be had in them endorsing Clinton/against Trump. "Not endorsing the blatant racist, sexist, and rapist candidate for president" is literally the least anyone can do to be considered a semi-respectable human being though, it's not really that impressive. I'm not inclined to give someone who decides to go to bat for using a racial slur in their lovely elfgame as some cutesy bit of faux-future slang with "well in this futuristic setting racisms have been over forever and anyway we're not apologizing" the benefit of the doubt over something like this, and if anything someone like that putting their name to something like this makes it reek even more of cheap, opportunistic pandering and bandwagoning instead of a sincere sentiment, dumb tropes and nerdspeak aside.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 04:06
|
|
|
Countblanc posted:it lets you know which Brands to support with your future tabletop rpg investments I'm in Australia so unless the Fallen Empires guy is a guard on Nauru I can't really impact the Brand.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 18:25 |
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:The fallout from this should be interesting, and by "interesting" I mean "rage-inducing". Holy poo poo, there's game industry folks signing from all over. Right now I love my hobby.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 05:18
|
|
