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rumble in the bunghole posted:Who the gently caress is going to be persuaded by this? Like sure, trump sucks, but is anyone going to vote because a pathfinder writer told them to? Knowing who the people behind Pathfinder support is a good way to know who you are voting for. *said whilst buying and donning a MAGA hat*
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Nov 6, 2016 06:48
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| # ? May 8, 2024 23:03 |
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As of this post both Jason Bulmahn and Mike Mearls have signed as well
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Nov 6, 2016 07:09
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dwarf74 posted:Holy poo poo, there's game industry folks signing from all over. Right now I love my hobby. I think this is really the best case. That we all get to be reminded that no matter how dumb this is, it comes from a good place and is attracting people to commit to something better than the alternative. It's a nice little change of pace from "hobby is a garbage fire made of garbage fires". EDIT: Well, that devolved quickly. Maybe not good people, but people doing a single good thing. Like, this doesn't make someone a saint or anything. Just better than the usual. The Lore Bear fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 07:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:As of this post both Jason Bulmahn and Mike Mearls have signed as well Yeah see, this is exactly what I mean. Oh word, Mike Mearls is against Trump? What a totally bold and controversial stance to take, I'm super impressed by that daring act of moral courage. Hey Mike, so does this mean you're gonna address the fact that you reached out to and courted Zak S and The RPG Pundit as consultants for D&D 5E? You know, the serial harasser and the guy who likes writing articles about the secret homofascist agenda of Blue Rose and the evils of feminism? No? Okay.
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Nov 6, 2016 07:16
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I mean I'm pretty sure Tarnowski and Zak aren't going to be in on this.
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Nov 6, 2016 07:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:I mean I'm pretty sure Tarnowski and Zak aren't going to be in on this. Sure, but the point is that someone like Mearls or Shanna Germain signing their name to some insipid open letter saying they're against Donald Trump isn't something to start feeling all warm and fuzzy about "my hobby" over. Who gives a poo poo? Saying you're against Trump isn't that impressive, it's not a bold and courageous stance to take to say you're against the almost-assuredly literal rapist, racist, and burgeoning fascist presidential candidate. You know what would impress me more? If the people in "my hobby" responsible for enabling and perpetuating lovely behavior like courting harassers and bigots or using racial slurs as cutesy future slang in their games would do something about that instead, maybe issue an apology rather than some non-apologetic "well that's just a term we use in our game where racism doesn't exist," instead of signing off on some token bullshit about how Hillary is your cool D&D playing aunt but that mean ol' Trump is a Hanzo main who cheats at Magic or whatever the gently caress. But I guess that would require the almost unimaginable sacrifice of admitting that maybe they were in the wrong, so instead we'll get a self-congratulatory token gesture before they go right back to business as usual.
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Nov 6, 2016 07:46
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Wow, yay, some people whose things we've bought gave a handjob to the blindingly corrupt money-grubbing candidate over the bugfuck crazy grandpa candidate. I feel hope and joy and love, let's all join arms and sing kumbaya together. I could not begin to give a poo poo about the political opinions of a boardgame developer. Anyone who would withhold the purchase of a game because someone responsible for it is a democrat/republican/communist/whatever entirely legal political opinion to have is a loving cretin. If a person responsible for a game is an actual criminal who has scammed/raped/murdered/etc. people, then I can get behind shunning them, but a person is free to hold whatever opinion they like, even if I think it's a retarded one.
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Nov 6, 2016 07:54
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Valatar posted:I could not begin to give a poo poo about the political opinions of a boardgame developer. Anyone who would withhold the purchase of a game because someone responsible for it is a democrat/republican/communist/whatever entirely legal political opinion to have is a loving cretin. I mean if someone comes right out and says "boy that Donald J. Trump, he sure does have some great ideas" I'm probably going to form an immediate and indelible opinion of them that may in fact influence whether or not I decide to pay them money for goods and services, sorry. I'm only human, and when someone says they think that a racist, rapist fascist megalomaniac is a cool dude that deserves to be in charge of the country I'm going to assume that this is probably representative of their opinions and beliefs when it comes to matters beyond the presidential election, and insofar as there's no ethical consumption under capitalism I still choose to give my disposable income to people who are at least capable of keeping their lovely opinions under wraps instead of flying them like a flag for all to see.
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Nov 6, 2016 08:07
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Kai Tave posted:I mean if someone comes right out and says "boy that Donald J. Trump, he sure does have some great ideas" I'm probably going to form an immediate and indelible opinion of them that may in fact influence whether or not I decide to pay them money for goods and services, sorry. I'm only human, and when someone says they think that a racist, rapist fascist megalomaniac is a cool dude that deserves to be in charge of the country I'm going to assume that this is probably representative of their opinions and beliefs when it comes to matters beyond the presidential election, and insofar as there's no ethical consumption under capitalism I still choose to give my disposable income to people who are at least capable of keeping their lovely opinions under wraps instead of flying them like a flag for all to see. Well yes, no smart businessperson would go and emblazon their opinions all over the internet in the first place, that's true. But if I'm going to boycott a company, it's going to be over something the company actually did instead of an opinion a person at the company holds. I don't shop Wal-Mart because they treat their employees like poo poo and intentionally destroy local business. I don't buy Nike shoes because they intentionally lied about the living quality of their workers. I try not to buy any clothes made from slave labor, though that's a bitch to actually accomplish. If a company does something that I consider shady or just generally lovely, I'll go out of my way to avoid supporting them. But making a statement about a political candidate isn't going to buy my support, nor is it going to get me to avoid them.
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Nov 6, 2016 08:40
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Or, possibly, these are people who know they have an audience trying to encourage that audience to not vote for the bad guy, rather than a 100% cynical attempt to claim credit for being on the cool good guys side? I dunno man, maybe nobody is convinced by a candidate endorsement, but maybe these folks think there's a chance that a nonzero number of their fans could be, and so it's worthwhile to show some pan-industry solidarity and make a public endorsement. There's plenty of lovely opinions and behaviors to get all up in arms about. This particular thing is, at worst, harmless pandering, but you don't need to just assume the worst possible motivations. A lot of people are genuinely scared of what might happen on Tuesday, it's not out of the question that some of them are just trying to do what is in their power to do. Even some people who have some lovely opinions otherwise, or track records of poor behavior. e. mostly directed this at kai tave, but intended more generally as well. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 08:45
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Let's not forget that a few weeks ago individuals were paying hundreds of dollars each for Monte Cook Presents: a weird box of crap. There's more hero worship than critical thinking in this hobby.
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Nov 6, 2016 09:21
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Leperflesh posted:Or, possibly, these are people who know they have an audience trying to encourage that audience to not vote for the bad guy, rather than a 100% cynical attempt to claim credit for being on the cool good guys side? I dunno man, maybe nobody is convinced by a candidate endorsement, but maybe these folks think there's a chance that a nonzero number of their fans could be, and so it's worthwhile to show some pan-industry solidarity and make a public endorsement. My argument is less that it's cynically manipulative so much as hypocritical, is the thing. Before someone tries to suggest I'm putting Mearls on an equal pedestal with Trump I'm not, I'm aware that one is vastly worse than the other, but I suppose I'm not impressed the people who've been handed the opportunity to make the hobby they claim to love less of a lovely place complete with instances of casual bigotry and harassment...you know, those things that the Trump candidacy and its supporters are emblematic of and in many ways a consequence of...and instead brushed it off with weak-tea excuses and general apathy are now turning around and making what I view, perhaps in my own cynicism, as an extremely low effort token gesture. This isn't to lump every other signatory in with Mearls and Germain and whoever else on that list happens to have been some kind of dickhead either, I'm aware that not everyone in the hobby is the sort of person to think that "beaners" is a cute thing to name your sci-fi fantasy subculture, but nonetheless I stand by my assertion that I'd be vastly more impressed by some sort of concerted effort by the game creators of the world to be more mindful about this sort of lovely behavior outside of something that happens once every four years.
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Nov 6, 2016 09:24
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Kai Tave posted:My argument is less that it's cynically manipulative so much as hypocritical, is the thing. Before someone tries to suggest I'm putting Mearls on an equal pedestal with Trump I'm not, I'm aware that one is vastly worse than the other, but I suppose I'm not impressed the people who've been handed the opportunity to make the hobby they claim to love less of a lovely place complete with instances of casual bigotry and harassment...you know, those things that the Trump candidacy and its supporters are emblematic of and in many ways a consequence of...and instead brushed it off with weak-tea excuses and general apathy are now turning around and making what I view, perhaps in my own cynicism, as an extremely low effort token gesture.
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Nov 6, 2016 14:09
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Jennell Jaquays signed it. I think Kai Tave has a point, and I'm still not ever going to spend one red cent on Numenera nor D&D 5e, but that made me smile.
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Nov 6, 2016 14:19
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dwarf74 posted:I dunno, I think it's nice when people do nice things. I don't want to go and yell at them for not doing more nice things because of it. Have any of these concerns been addressed directly to the signees? If not, I don't think anyone is yelling at anyone. Also, that letter was some pathetic, cringeworthy poo poo. Signing it is an empty gesture. The fact that Mearls signed it is all you need to know on that front.
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Nov 6, 2016 14:34
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[Extremely Democrat voice]: I may not be... the Tarrasque! But I'm still... immune to Donald Trump's attacks!
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Nov 6, 2016 15:00
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Serf posted:Have any of these concerns been addressed directly to the signees? If not, I don't think anyone is yelling at anyone.  Hell, juding by the past few posts, it seems like they're getting extra criticism for putting even a token gesture out there. So now they'll get poo poo on by alt-right morons and people who scoff at putting themselves out there even a little bit. 
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Nov 6, 2016 15:05
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dwarf74 posted:You don't think someone in the gaming industry could suffer any consequences or receive any harassment or threats for signing a letter that says, "Vote for Clinton, Trump is a big baby"? I thought an overarching theme of this thread was "This hobby is full of regressive, lovely people who harass others" I was responding to this: dwarf74 posted:I dunno, I think it's nice when people do nice things. I don't want to go and yell at them for not doing more nice things because of it. Which appears to be you indicating that people who largely agree with the signing of this letter will berate the signees for taking only a token action. Whereas now you're talking about alt-rightists, which were not the subject of the post I was responding to. They will undoubtedly get blowback from alt-rightists, but you get that for a wide variety of things these days. That sucks, and I hope they get through it. But so far I haven't seen any evidence of people excoriating the signees directly because they aren't doing enough. That is a point that seems largely confined to this thread and I doubt it will ever leave it because it seems that largely the points that get discussed here do not get brought up elsewhere. I have no intention of taking my concerns to the people in question. I could spend my time more productively arguing with a stop sign.
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Nov 6, 2016 15:22
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I have here a letter from Greg Stolze, who says that when and only when I can remove and capture Gary Johnson's knowledge of geography as a concept, then will he reveal the true secret essence of democracy.
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Nov 6, 2016 15:23
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grassy gnoll posted:I have here a letter from Greg Stolze, who says that when and only when I can remove and capture Gary Johnson's knowledge of geography as a concept, then will he reveal the true secret essence of democracy. Sadly I think somebody else did that long ago.
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Nov 6, 2016 15:51
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He could be a geographic adept. Reaching the presidency on the back of his apparent ignorance of global politics could grant him a major charge, allowing him to make Aleppo the new Atlantis, or make the Earth properly flat again.
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Nov 6, 2016 16:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:Jennell Jaquays signed it. I think Kai Tave has a point, and I'm still not ever going to spend one red cent on Numenera nor D&D 5e, but that made me smile. I'm really glad she's still around. I can't imagine the poo poo she got over the years. She spoke up for the trans character in that Baldur's Gate expansion too.
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Nov 6, 2016 17:07
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Bernie Sanders would've made a much better GM, I'm sick of candidates only interested in d20 
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Nov 6, 2016 18:50
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Bedlamdan posted:Bernie Sanders would've made a much better GM, I'm sick of candidates only interested in d20 Drama System is good for a session or two but I wouldn't want an entire campaign of it.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:10
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I think it's a nice gesture. It doesn't amount to much more than a gesture, and it's a little cringey, but I can still appreciate it. Doesn't mean that the ones who've been lovely have suddenly turned over a new leaf. Mike Mearls's support of Zak remains indefensible. I don't intend to forgive him that anytime soon. But I can at least appreciate a gesture of solidarity in the face of someone even shittier. Like, if they all got together and raised money for a good charity, I could still say, "Yeah, that's pretty nice," without saying "Mike Mearls is a saint."
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Nov 6, 2016 19:18
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Peas and Rice posted:Drama System is good for a session or two but I wouldn't want an entire campaign of it. Instead of rehashing the same dungeon crawls, we could be playing stuff like Ryuutama. JackMann posted:I think it's a nice gesture. It doesn't amount to much more than a gesture, and it's a little cringey, but I can still appreciate it. Doesn't mean that the ones who've been lovely have suddenly turned over a new leaf. Mike Mearls's support of Zak remains indefensible. I don't intend to forgive him that anytime soon. But I can at least appreciate a gesture of solidarity in the face of someone even shittier. As for me, I just want this stupid loving election cycle to end.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:23
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Assuming people don't turn into total assholes and try to overthrow the government, two more days.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:26
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dwarf74 posted:You don't think someone in the gaming industry could suffer any consequences or receive any harassment or threats for signing a letter that says, "Vote for Clinton, Trump is a big baby"? I thought an overarching theme of this thread was "This hobby is full of regressive, lovely people who harass others" Some of whom have signed their name to this letter. Have any of those regressive, lovely people apologized for their regressive, lovely behavior lately? No? Then I know exactly how much such things actually concern them, and I'm not impressed by a token gesture on their part which claims otherwise while they continue to abdicate personal responsibility. I do not actually consider "don't vote for the literal rapist" to be all that hot or courageous a stance compared to delivering a sincere and genuine apology for bad behavior which it seems most people in "my hobby" are physiologically incapable of.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:37
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Valatar posted:Wow, yay, some people whose things we've bought gave a handjob to the blindingly corrupt money-grubbing candidate over the bugfuck crazy grandpa candidate. I feel hope and joy and love, let's all join arms and sing kumbaya together. Okay, I have to say this- Hilary Clinton has been under investigation for about a quarter of a century now. She has yet to be indicted once. She's either not "blindingly corrupt" or she's a loving criminal genius.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:37
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Maxwell Lord posted:Okay, I have to say this- Hilary Clinton has been under investigation for about a quarter of a century now. She has yet to be indicted once. Either way, that's someone you want to vote for not against!
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Nov 6, 2016 19:40
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Kwyndig posted:Either way, that's someone you want to vote for not against! I'd vote for Moriarty. He'd probably be able to get a lot of poo poo done.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:44
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Kwyndig posted:Either way, that's someone you want to vote for not against! The older I get, the more I realize the ideal
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Nov 6, 2016 19:45
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jill stein likes GURPS, pass it on
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Nov 6, 2016 19:47
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I mean, the election is between a centrist and Darth Sidious'* old, orange, dumb brother so it's a pretty easy answer. And not even the smart Sidious, the dumb one from the Freemaker adventures. *I've been reading a lot of Star Wars stuff for a campaign I ended up having to cancel: sue me.
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Nov 6, 2016 19:49
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Nuns with Guns posted:jill stein likes GURPS, pass it on also gary johnson is deep into Hc Svnt Dracones
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Nov 6, 2016 20:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:also gary johnson is deep into Hc Svnt Dracones Be fair, he probably just plays Eclipse Phase. He doesn't seem a furry. But, is someone who doesn't get the subtle criticism of libertarianism in the text.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:06
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Nuns with Guns posted:jill stein likes GURPS, pass it on jill stein likes GURPS purple monkey dishwasher
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Nov 6, 2016 20:11
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Was there an anti-vaxxer supplement to GURPS? If so, that explains Jill's interest in it.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:jill stein likes GURPS, pass it on She's too granola for that, no doubt her thing is a really badly run freeform forum RP.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:41
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dwarf74 posted:Hell, juding by the past few posts, it seems like they're getting extra criticism for putting even a token gesture out there. So now they'll get poo poo on by alt-right morons and people who scoff at putting themselves out there even a little bit.
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Nov 7, 2016 00:42
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