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Opposing Farce posted:To be fair I think Mei coming into the meta was on the back of people figuring out how devastating her wall can be as much as the Blizzard buff. The buff definitely helped, of course, but I think if Blizzard put Blizzard back where it was before people would still run Mei for her wall and the tankiness and stalling power of Ice Block. I disagree with this post completely. The fact that blizzard is now massive enough that it's difficult to escape and can lock down an entire payload or capture point for huge gaps at a time is entirely the reason she's shown up in the meta, not competitive players suddenly discovering one of her basic abilities exists 6 months after the fact.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:11
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the wall is good and people were already using her on defense before the buff (she was always very good on anubis b defense, for example), but without blizzard being what it is you'd never see her on offense like you do now. she's actually really good on either side right now also I think the big loser in the upcoming sombra patch is definitely gonna be lucio since they're nerfing his heal rate in ptr and sombra can basically make his ult useless. should be interesting to see what happens with the supports after sombra hits because all ults will charge slower and zen and lucio both have massive disadvantages when sombra is in play
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Nov 6, 2016 20:14
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Fabricated posted:Somba seems insanely loving good. Basically you can camp healing packs by hacking them and dropping your translocator on them, then you go invisible and harass endlessly. Hack a big medpack and let Bastion sit on it.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:18
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Cowcaster posted:I disagree with this post completely. The fact that blizzard is now massive enough that it's difficult to escape and can lock down an entire payload or capture point for huge gaps at a time is entirely the reason she's shown up in the meta, not competitive players suddenly discovering one of her basic abilities exists 6 months after the fact. Maybe that's true, but my recollection is prior to the buff Mei was widely considered garbage tier and people in the tryhard thread were saying things like "why would you ever run Mei when outright killing people is so much faster and easier than any crowd control she brings to the table." Then after the buff you had a couple of professional matches where attacking teams were getting completely shut out by Mei walls on the first point of Hanamura because Mei had been out of the meta so long nobody was sure how to deal with it, and then suddenly Mei was all over the place. Maybe I'm overstating it or the difference wasn't as stark as I remember it, but at the time it really felt like a switch had been flipped and Mei went from gimmick pick to staple of the meta overnight in a way that you wouldn't expect from a significant but very specific tweak to a single number (plus the shield piercing bit but that doesn't seem as big). Blizzard is very powerful and it's a big part of what makes Mei dangerous but from my perspective it feels like part of what the buff accomplished was getting people to reevaluate her basic kit and start exploiting the strengths she has even when her ult isn't up. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Nov 6, 2016 |
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Nov 6, 2016 20:33
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Fabricated posted:And her ability hack enemy players and her ult basically destroys the "everyone just spams their ults all at once" defense/offensive strategies. Actually, it's going to enable them in an even worse fashion. Now it'll be Sombra V Sombra counter-wars. Both offense and defense will want to use her to lockdown the counter-ult so their own spam wipes the enemy team out. You'll have to hope your own team's Sombra sees the gravitron coming so she can counter the enemy Sombra ult or your team will be wiped.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:34
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I can't wait to turn Genjis ult emote into a wet fart with Sombra. Does her ult activate instantly (see: Mercy) or is it channeled in any way?
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Nov 6, 2016 20:42
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Thor-Stryker posted:Actually, it's going to enable them in an even worse fashion. Now it'll be Sombra V Sombra counter-wars. Both offense and defense will want to use her to lockdown the counter-ult so their own spam wipes the enemy team out.
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Nov 6, 2016 20:58
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Fabricated posted:I think you'll see less of that as Sombra's novelty wears off and you stop seeing her being picked 100% of the time. We'll see how the pro-meta shakes out, but she's going to be a slam-pick for all eternity in non-comp because she's a cloak-class that shuts down skills and ults. Gamers absolutely love that poo poo just like they love ninjas, bow+arrows, and sniper rifles. She's also being built up to have a troll personality, which is a massive fan-base.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:19
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She's going to be standard on KOTH and I imagine 2CP Defense because of the health pack dynamic alone.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:22
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if her ult is as good as it seems to be, she'll be a staple on all maps/game modes. sombra will shake the meta up a lot... or she'll be terrible and nothing will change. either or
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Nov 6, 2016 21:22
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Manatee Cannon posted:if her ult is as good as it seems to be, she'll be a staple on all maps/game modes. sombra will shake the meta up a lot... or she'll be terrible and nothing will change. either or It depends on how people figure out how to counter her. I expect a lot of comedy videos of Junkrat players dropping traps on her translocator and blowing her up afterwards.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:35
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I think the health-pack hack is going to make a few characters a bit more viable, or expanded in where they go. As someone said, you can just park Bastion on a hacked health kit. If it's aiming anywhere decent, that's going to be a pain in the rear end to deal with. Torb could be similar. Put a turret that defends the health kit area instead of the point. If Sombra goes in to hack the health kit, she's protected, an enemy Sombra will have to deal with the turret somehow. Torb can just chuck his armor into that hole over and over so your team has an entire dedicated re-supply zone. Imagine defense on a two point control map that can get back to full HP and armor, including the tanks, without having to go back to spawn or divert the attention of a healer. Now imagine this on offense.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:37
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mind the walrus posted:For every 5 people on a team trying there's one who wants to gently caress around as attack Bastion, one who thinks Widow/Hanzo practice time is the reason QP exists, and one poor soul going Torbjorn not because the bugger is fun but because they're under the sincere impression he's the Engineer from Tf2 and must be deployed for defense. Is this why there's always a bad Widowmaker on my team on offense contributing nothing but sick killshots to the enemy Widowmaker
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Nov 6, 2016 21:40
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I'll take attack Bastion to "Attack Junkrat against enemy Zarya" any day. Hell, defense Junkrat, too.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:42
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Sombra is going to be pretty good against mediocre players, and so-so for competent ones. The fact that her hack takes awhile and breaks on being hit means she won't get it off often and will die fast, or that she does a lot of hit and run and poke without doing much but disruption without kills. With only 200hp too she has to be in a super dangerous position for her ult that needs her whole team to take advantage immediately anyway. I don't see her being a huge game changer because her kit has a ton of limits.
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Nov 6, 2016 21:53
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Fenarisk posted:Sombra is going to be pretty good against mediocre players, and so-so for competent ones. The fact that her hack takes awhile and breaks on being hit means she won't get it off often and will die fast, or that she does a lot of hit and run and poke without doing much but disruption without kills. With only 200hp too she has to be in a super dangerous position for her ult that needs her whole team to take advantage immediately anyway. I don't see her being a huge game changer because her kit has a ton of limits. drop translocator cloak behind enemy team ult warp back for free
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Nov 6, 2016 21:57
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Hahaha picking up a hacked health pack counts as self healing. It gives you ult charge and more importantly lets you steal cards and medals from healers. I don't see her shaking up the meta. To do that first of all she needs to get picked. That means pushing out another Attack hero. 1v1 against other attack heroes they all win unless they gently caress up and her larger magazine comes into play. Sort of like Soldier 76, the never-used-in-competitive character. She hoses Genji and Tracer with the hack because they really suck without their survival skills, but the other guys just shrug and shoot her dead. Other Attack heroes just plain kill people with their ults, and dead heroes can't kill anyone (Torbjorn Symmetra and Junkrat don't count). She doesn't have one of those ults you can just whip out like Indiana Jones vs the Cairo swordsman when you're sick of dueling and just want to press Q and instakill your enemy. She interrupts some ults, and shuts down one good forevermeta ult in sound barrier, but what's the best way to interrupt an ult? Death! Also, Ana boosting her probably isn't that special. Who knows, maybe the git boosted, EMP build ult EMP again dream combo will be good but it's probably not as good as boosting a Reaper or weaboo and oneshotting everyone. In the situation where things have gone to hell and only your Attack hero is alive against whatever odds, the last hero you want that to be is Sombra. Tank-wise, Zarya will be fine unless she's caught out without a healer and Sombra ults her, then she's completely screwed. Otherwise, EMP'd Zarya with some charge at 200 hp still does Attack hero damage and can be "overhealed." Zarya bubble interrupts hack so she can stop herself and others from being hacked, just like with Mei freeze. Stays meta. Reinhardt can turn his barrier around to interrupt a hack from behind, and his barrier stops her from hacking other people. Maybe that matters. She can't 1-clip him. He's forevermeta and will stay picked even against a Sombra. D.va will not be thrust into the meta. When hacked she is pretty screwed. She'd have to survive for 6 seconds with her slow rear end movement while single-target shooting, without boost or APM or else she's de-meched, can't ult, and is basically delaying her respawn. APM can't eat EMP like a lot of other ults and things. Denying health packs matters against D.va. If she gets hacked while out of mech she can't get back in the mech, which I find hilarious but probably doesn't matter. Winston is supposed to counter her according to that dev, but if she gets hack off on him he is toast. Hacked Winston can't jump away or ult to survive. Hacked ulting Winston also can't chase or escape, just walk at people and knock them out of his own range. Denying health packs matters against Winston. 1v1 unless he lands on her she can one-clip him before she kills her gun-vs-gun (with some headshots, probably reliably), and she has translocate away then stealth and outrun to juke him. If he runs away, she can stealth after him and finish him off. I don't see a counter, or at least see a "volatile matchup" or whatever. Roadhog becomes a worse pick when someone can get past him while he's looking for that hook, and she can burn him down pretty good (with an unrealistic 2 full seconds of headshots she can even 1-clip him). Hooking invisible Sombras will be hilarious but unlikely: she'll be the best attack hero in terms of flanking him and his team. 1v1, she can see him when he's weak, hack him while he heals, and finish him off easily. The dream matchup. Supports: Ana, as if she weren't already meta enough, is probably the best support vs Sombra. Losing grenade sucks, but healing those tanks at 75hps so they can survive long enough to be able to ult again and win a fight matters. The support with the best damage in class would prefer to go against the attack hero with the worst. If people play Sombra, the character who really gets hosed is Zenyatta, who has it hard enough. "Hi, you have 50 health now and can't ult for 6 seconds. Good luck." Torbjorn also gets hosed because of how long the hacked debuff lasts on turrets. Hacking them without ult is apparently hard unless they're targeting someone else so their damage doesn't interrupt your hack, but damage is good at killing them normally, and her ult completely hoses the super turret for all of Molten Core. My hope is they forget to make hacks not persist through hero swapping so you get teams starting with Attack Sombra, stealth sprinting to the best healthpack and hacking it, then translocating back to the spawn room and switching hero.
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Nov 6, 2016 22:55
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The thing about Winston is his shield will block her hacking as well, just like Reinhardt's barrier does. If Sombra catches Winston with his shield and jump pack on CD she might ruin his day but so do a lot of people when they catch Winston out like that, otherwise him having a gun that continually interrupts two of her abilities leaves the matchup down to "is Sombra fighting on a hacked healthpack y/n," otherwise he's probably going to force her to translocate just to stay alive.
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Nov 6, 2016 23:05
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the normal hack has nothing to do with how good sombra is or is not and I really doubt that it'll be that useful outside of health packs in pro games, even if she hits lucio levels of use
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Nov 6, 2016 23:10
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quote:If people play Sombra, the character who really gets hosed is Zenyatta, who has it hard enough. "Hi, you have 50 health now and can't ult for 6 seconds. Good luck." Only the ult does this. The regular hack doesn't remove shield-health. There's already plenty of ults and even some regular abilities (like Roadhog's hook combo) that will instagib Zen, so while EMP is certainly a bad ult for Zen to get hit by, I don't see it being inordinately worse for him than what's already in the game.
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Nov 6, 2016 23:28
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Manatee Cannon posted:the normal hack has nothing to do with how good sombra is or is not and I really doubt that it'll be that useful outside of health packs in pro games, even if she hits lucio levels of use Yeah people keep wanting to breakdown her 1v1 matchups as if they center around her ability to hack the enemy, but that's ridiculous. Hacking enemies is by far the most gimmicky part of her kit.
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Nov 6, 2016 23:33
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Well technically hack has 10m range and tesla cannon has 8m, and maybe overhead behind the back translocator hack could work... nah I was talking about EMP against classes. In the support class, Lucio might appear to be the most hosed because of the ult-canceling thing but I think Zen gets hosed as much if not worse because of all the ults in the game it looks like it gives him the least time to reaction ult (EMP looks instant), and afterwards anyone can breathe on him and he's dead. For him, It's as bad as getting Reaper ulted for a just under a second but instantly. At least Lucio is a regenning wallrunning dude with 200 hp after he gets EMP'd. Same thing with Winston. In the tank class, Zarya is the most hosed, but he's the next most hosed–he has the next worst health pool among tanks and relies more on his buttons, and even while ulting he gets sort of hosed by losing his low cooldown jump. Also he was touted as a "hard counter" but the matchup seems not that bad for her. Sorta like Tracer. He can spam tesla cannon and spins around and make it not as easy to stealth past him, she can give him the slip and burn him down. It's not "Pyro vs Spy" levels of sneak up on your counter or you're hosed. It's more like, maybe I'd rather be a Sombra than a McCree or Soldier in the matchup?
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Nov 7, 2016 00:13
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Veryslightlymad posted:I'll take attack Bastion to "Attack Junkrat against enemy Zarya" any day. Hell, defense Junkrat, too. one day one day junkrat will be buffed and then you'll see THEN YOU'LL ALL SEE 
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Nov 7, 2016 00:15
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No one probably (and rightfully) cares, but I wanted to share with the group nonetheless:   Edit: My highest was 2460 after playing some more after the placement matches in a 4-6 man group, but then I plummeted to sub 1800, climbed to 2200 again before dropping to silver again. The last 10 days have been solo queue mostly and the last 5 days have been really rewarding. There was this plateau where I thought "No, please don't drop again." and "No, why do you pick attack Torbjorn, you rear end", but finally, finally, I broke the curse. mcbexx fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 00:18
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I got to 2500 a couple weeks ago. Comp is much less stressful now that I know I'll get that level of reward
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Nov 7, 2016 00:22
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Fateo McMurray posted:I got to 2500 a couple weeks ago. Comp is much less stressful now that I know I'll get that level of reward So you keep the platinum profile rank even if you drop below 2500 but does that also apply to the end-of-season rewards? Not that I'm anywhere near getting a golden gun what with barely twenty comp games under my belt e: plat is not diamond an actual frog fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 00:27
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Mechanism Eight posted:So you keep the diamond profile rank even if you drop below 2500 but does that also apply to the end-of-season rewards? It's plat, but yeah, you do. I'm still at 29xx  First season I ended one SR below the next reward level too...
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Nov 7, 2016 00:28
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Mechanism Eight posted:So you keep the diamond profile rank even if you drop below 2500 but does that also apply to the end-of-season rewards? You keep your maximum profile rank (unless your above diamond, I think) and your season best rank determines your competitive points for buying a golden gun. Platinum is 800 points, twice as much as you'd get for gold.
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Nov 7, 2016 00:31
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2500 is plat, actually, but yeah, you keep the end-of-season reward of the highest tier (up to diamond) you made it to. edit: I don't know what the hell an F5 key is.
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Nov 7, 2016 00:41
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Sombra's real strength will likely be team play. She's a huge buff to flankers. Take a pro genji, tracer, and sombra. They'll be able to make a base out anywhere with a health pack and completely shut down the area. Defense, attack, it won't matter. You enter the playground you get beat down. Or junkrat and sombra. Imagine a junkrat in his hole with infinite health packs. He won't even need line of sight to focus you down if you happen to get below half health. Pyzza Rouge fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 00:58
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Yeah it seems like the flankers (that everybody already hates) are going to get a lot stronger. There will be a backlash against Sombra because of her ability to safely engage any position as long as she has a teleport up and her ability to lock down sections of maps with the help of another flanker, and those things will probably get nerfed, hopefully in way that keeps her as fun as she looks right now.
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Nov 7, 2016 02:30
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quote:Winston is supposed to counter her according to that dev, but if she gets hack off on him he is toast. Hacked Winston can't jump away or ult to survive. Hacked ulting Winston also can't chase or escape, just walk at people and knock them out of his own range. Denying health packs matters against Winston. 1v1 unless he lands on her she can one-clip him before she kills her gun-vs-gun (with some headshots, probably reliably), and she has translocate away then stealth and outrun to juke him. If he runs away, she can stealth after him and finish him off. I don't see a counter, or at least see a "volatile matchup" or whatever. Its really worrying when, time and time again, the developers of this game demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of their own game.
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Nov 7, 2016 02:32
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she's not gonna get a hack off on winston unless the winston is phenomenally bad. hell, she's not ever gonna get a hack off unless the other guy is just stupid as hell because being damaged interrupts the hack. the emp will make winston one dead monkey, yea, but that's true for literally everyone and he's not nearly as negatively effected by that as some others (tracer, zarya, zen, lucio, etc). sombra can't escape winston without the translocator either because her invisibility is cancelled out by damage, and she's not gonna damage race him unless she's far enough away that he can't hit her or he's close up but doesn't have the bubble and she gets all headshots
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Nov 7, 2016 02:44
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Are we talking about the Unit Lost video? If so, that's the network engineer and he isn't as close to actual systems as others. Also Winston couldn't even hit a cloaked Sombra that I could tell, since it can't lock onto an invisible target (same with Symmetra)
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Nov 7, 2016 02:47
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if you're already attacking her, you're locked on and she won't be able to go invisible in the first place. if you're not then it doesn't really matter and she probably has no reason to use that ability anyway
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Nov 7, 2016 02:49
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When talking about Sombra balance, you can't use "what happens when Sombra hacks X character?" as a starting point, because that's a HUGE if in a lot of cases. Characters that can get a shot off quickly, with a big spread or auto-targeting, will be the easiest characters to interrupt her with; all you have to do if you're Winston or D.Va is hold l-click and sweep the mouse vaguely in her direction.
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Nov 7, 2016 04:21
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Supercar Gautier posted:When talking about Sombra balance, you can't use "what happens when Sombra hacks X character?" as a starting point, because that's a HUGE if in a lot of cases. Sounds like a reaper thing - he doesn't rely on abilities to push out damage, doesn't rely on shields, and has big-damage weapons that spread right the gently caress out pretty fast. Not only is he not really hurt by getting hacked or EMP'd, he's able to just huck shots off in her direction with a decent chance of hitting.
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Nov 7, 2016 04:27
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Supercar Gautier posted:When talking about Sombra balance, you can't use "what happens when Sombra hacks X character?" as a starting point, because that's a HUGE if in a lot of cases. It's not that big of a if as she's a flank class just like the Spy. Pros will engage when the death-balls run into each other and she'll lock out whatever target needed before they realize it.
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Nov 7, 2016 04:52
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FAUXTON posted:Sounds like a reaper thing - he doesn't rely on abilities to push out damage, doesn't rely on shields, and has big-damage weapons that spread right the gently caress out pretty fast. Not only is he not really hurt by getting hacked or EMP'd, he's able to just huck shots off in her direction with a decent chance of hitting.
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Nov 7, 2016 04:59
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IronicDongz posted:Well, situationally it could matter-if Sombra is communicating with her teammates and gets off a hack on a reaper moving into a point, she could tell them "hey reaper's shift is down" and then they can engage knowing he doesn't have his easy strong escape button. Oh I don't think about the game in terms of "teams listening to each other" because as far as I'm able to tell, that poo poo never ever happens.
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Nov 7, 2016 05:10
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