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FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

gradenko_2000 posted:

The latest entry on my blog deals with an exploration of the history behind THAC0.
Nice.

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Sax Solo
Feb 18, 2011



gradenko_2000 posted:

The latest entry on my blog deals with an exploration of the history behind THAC0.

Now I miss the copies of Alarums & Excursions I lost some years ago..

Grognard type comments: I feel your post gets a little derailed into the Target20 thing, and loses the thread from the 1E matrices, to THAC0, to BAB, to 4E scrapping BAB but creating proficiency bonus, to 5E combining everything into the proficiency bonus and also there's a bunch of advantage/disadvantage crap now. Maybe it wasn't your intention to really chronicle that, I guess.

Also FWIW, the Delta Target20 stuff starts in 2007 not 2009. I feel pretty sure he originated it, but I sent him an email to ask.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Sax Solo posted:

Now I miss the copies of Alarums & Excursions I lost some years ago..

Grognard type comments: I feel your post gets a little derailed into the Target20 thing, and loses the thread from the 1E matrices, to THAC0, to BAB, to 4E scrapping BAB but creating proficiency bonus, to 5E combining everything into the proficiency bonus and also there's a bunch of advantage/disadvantage crap now. Maybe it wasn't your intention to really chronicle that, I guess.

Also FWIW, the Delta Target20 stuff starts in 2007 not 2009. I feel pretty sure he originated it, but I sent him an email to ask.

Hey, thanks for the feedback and the follow-through, I appreciate it. I'm forever standing on the shoulders of giants, pioneers, and people who have plain longer memories.

For example, some weeks ago someone commented on my other article that critical hits were actually written into a Samurai class that dates all the way back to Dragon #3 (Oct 1976).

You make a good point about the 3e to 4e transition virtually making everyone work with "full BAB", and that that's something that even 5e inherits. Something to chew on for another future piece.

Harvey Mantaco
Mar 6, 2007

Someone please help me find my keys =(
My wife and I don't get to play a lot of D&D but 4e was our favorite. She recently brought up that she wishes that there were purely combat scenarios posted anywhere with like, simple AI instructions for how the monsters act. It would be like the D&D adventure series boardgames. I was thinking that that MUST exist somewhere... but I couldn't find it. I did find something called Ravenloft Reversions which lets you play that specific boardgame with actual D&D characters but I'm surprised that's all I could find. Anyone heard of anything like this? I was thinking that given how well the tactical side of combat was fleshed out with 4e(and with monsters being given various roles) it would have been the most obvious version.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Descent: Journeys in the Dark might be what you want, because it now has a free app that will autopilot monsters for you. Plus it lets you play completely co-op.

Scyther
Dec 29, 2010

Harvey Mantaco posted:

My wife and I don't get to play a lot of D&D but 4e was our favorite. She recently brought up that she wishes that there were purely combat scenarios posted anywhere with like, simple AI instructions for how the monsters act. It would be like the D&D adventure series boardgames. I was thinking that that MUST exist somewhere... but I couldn't find it. I did find something called Ravenloft Reversions which lets you play that specific boardgame with actual D&D characters but I'm surprised that's all I could find. Anyone heard of anything like this? I was thinking that given how well the tactical side of combat was fleshed out with 4e(and with monsters being given various roles) it would have been the most obvious version.

Not a tabletop game per se, but I remember playing this a billion years ago in my browser with some other people (just the free scenario and it seemed okay) It's pretty blatantly inspired by 4e. I can't vouch for any of the paid content but if you think it looks at all interesting it can't hurt to try the free scenario with your wife: https://www.playconclave.com/

Quantumfate
Feb 17, 2009

Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:


"Motherfucker I will -end- you"


I'm planning on running the Slave Lords series for a friend who's coming into town, does anyone have any advice on making characters in 2e, any advice for the modules, or any good suggestions on props?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Quantumfate posted:

I'm planning on running the Slave Lords series for a friend who's coming into town, does anyone have any advice on making characters in 2e, any advice for the modules, or any good suggestions on props?

You should be aware that the Slave Lords series is for 1e, not 2e.

Quantumfate
Feb 17, 2009

Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:


"Motherfucker I will -end- you"


I do know that :)

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Descent: Journeys in the Dark might be what you want, because it now has a free app that will autopilot monsters for you. Plus it lets you play completely co-op.

Yep and if anything it has even tighter combat mechanics than 4E.

Harvey Mantaco
Mar 6, 2007

Someone please help me find my keys =(

alg posted:

Yep and if anything it has even tighter combat mechanics than 4E.

We have it and the app. Making the 4e characters before taking them for a spin is half the fun :)

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Oh, if that's the case then check out Strike!. It's a sort of 4e retroclone.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

Scyther posted:

Not a tabletop game per se, but I remember playing this a billion years ago in my browser with some other people (just the free scenario and it seemed okay) It's pretty blatantly inspired by 4e. I can't vouch for any of the paid content but if you think it looks at all interesting it can't hurt to try the free scenario with your wife: https://www.playconclave.com/

I played a couple of Conclave scenarios with a friend; it's either got an obnoxiously long tutorial phase or it's just really shallow compared to 4E. We quit in boredom after 3-4 combats.

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...



It's the second thing. If you want something pseudo-4E try Card Hunter.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

:siren: D&D Classics is starting to offer Print on Demand :siren:

WARNING: Affiliate links if you care

Matt-M-McElroy at RPGNet posted:

Classics in PoD:

Den of Thieves (2e)
AC1 The Shady Dragon Inn (Basic)
Draconomicon (3.5)
WG5: Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure (1e)
Beyond the Prism Pentad (2e)
SJS1 Goblin's Return (2e)
I10: Ravenloft II: The House on Gryphon Hill (1e)
Dreams of the Red Wizards: Scourge of the Sword Coast (D&D Next)
Dragonlance Adventures (1e)
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill (1e)
Hollow World Campaign Setting (Basic)
X2 Castle Amber (Basic)

That's right. We've begun a soft rollout of print on demand classic Dungeons & Dragons titles with enthusiastic support from the Wizards of the Coast team. We have a few titles across several editions and settings launching today and we'll be activating more books for sale in print each week as our team has the chance to prep and proof the books.

Enjoy!

Matt

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Uh, wow. Does DTRPG ship internationally?

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Neat. Can they print multiple books in a single volume? I think I'd like a Red Box.

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

I'll be all over it when they can print me a Rules Cyclopedia.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Picking up the Three Brown Booklets (plus Greyhawk, natch), the RC, the Mentzer Expert Set (for that Stranger Things cred), and the three corebooks for 3rd and 4th would be a nice birthday present to myself next year.

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

They have both US and UK printing centres. Got Stars without number and it's okay quality wise. Not as nice as a book done on a dedicated run would be, but okay.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Siivola posted:

Neat. Can they print multiple books in a single volume? I think I'd like a Red Box.
According to Matt, anything that's multiple books will be printed into one book. That includes the maps. If you want multiple books you'll probably have to do the "private store on Lulu" thing.

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

I'll be all over it when they can print me a Rules Cyclopedia.
Also according to Matt, the Cyclopedia is "on the list".

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

Talking of Stars without number, one of my players wants to have drones. Anyone done any rules for them? Otherwise I've got a framework almost sorted

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Evil Mastermind posted:

:siren: D&D Classics is starting to offer Print on Demand :siren:

WARNING: Affiliate links if you care
Everyone sitting on a pile of $100+ modules better sell quick!

Babylon Astronaut
Apr 19, 2012

Evil Mastermind posted:

According to Matt, anything that's multiple books will be printed into one book. That includes the maps. If you want multiple books you'll probably have to do the "private store on Lulu" thing.

Also according to Matt, the Cyclopedia is "on the list".

Wish they gave the RC the deluxe treatment like they did with nearly all the other core books. That said, I could really use cheap, extra copies of the BECMI books for the table. gently caress buying 15 of the box sets.

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Prominent OSR Blog Bends Knee to Lick Trump's Boot

http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2016/11/tenkars-tavern-designated-neutral-ground.html?m=1

alg fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Nov 17, 2016

Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Okay, a few things wrong. I'm going to head up with a preface that I've interacted with Erik Tenkar and follow him on Facebook, so I'm not exactly a neutral party. But this statement's a bit hyperbolic.

Tenkar voted for Hillary (said it on social media and not his blog).*

Secondly while there are problems inherent with the "can't we just stop talking about it and game?" I can understand how many folk may want to head off election/Trump talk at their gaming table when it's on everyone's minds. Or at least find an escape from reality in some way.

Of course, I disagree in parts. For example, one Tavern follower came up with a (very real) hypothetical, for instance of someone making an LGBT PC and is promptly said to be "pushing an agenda" by the other players. Tenkar responded that the people complaining about the PC would be in the wrong and LGBT players and characters wouldn't fall under this rule at the Tavern. Although this is a bit short-sighted in that race/gender/etc are political issues due to the current climate, at least he's aware of how it can be used by bigots to suppress or shut down conversation of that sort and would make an exception in this instance.

As for myself, I think a better idea would be to go "I'm not in the mood to talk about Presidential candidates and don't want to lock down flamewars on this blog, so there." A blanket 'no politics' rule in gaming discussions would preclude pretty much most of Shadowrun's setting, being unable to talk about hugely stupid setting choices in alternate history RPGs, not wanting to support an rear end in a top hat game designer who hates a minority group your GM/player(s) belong to, and the like. As well as many other things.

*Actually looking back, all he said was that he backed a losing candidate, which can mean several choices actually other than Trump.

TL;DR Tenkar's decision is well-intended yet full of holes, but that doesn't mean he's Stumping for Trump.

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Nov 18, 2016

Glorified Scrivener
May 4, 2007

His tongue it could not speak, but only flatter.

Libertad! posted:

Okay, a few things wrong. I'm going to head up with a preface that I've interacted with Erik Tenkar and follow him on Facebook, so I'm not exactly a neutral party. But this statement's a bit hyperbolic.

Tenkar voted for Hillary (said it on social media and not his blog).

Secondly while there are problems inherent with the "can't we just stop talking about it and game?" I can understand how many folk may want to head off election/Trump talk at their gaming table when it's on everyone's minds. Or at least find an escape from reality in some way.

Thanks for saying that better than I would've. My gaming group made a decision to not talk about the election at the table for a while and we're all pretty progressive.

Anyway I find Tenkar to be pretty chill and an okay dude for an agent of state violence (Ret.) .

Also, I'm generally in favor of anything that let's me read OSR blogs with a smaller chance of having to read someone's paleo-conservative political ramblings. Not a lot of them get it when you explain that your nostalgia for a time that never was is limited to gaming, not the real world.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Yeah, that struck me as less "I'm shutting people down from talking about things I don't like/that make me uncomfortable" and more "I'm laying down this rule so I don't have to spend half my day stopping flamewars".

That said the "let's just unite all gamers regardless of beliefs" thing is kinda dumb in a GSF #1 kinda way.

alg
Mar 14, 2007

A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

Yeah as long as he sticks to "don't talk about the election etc" he's fine but in comments on FB he was basically saying no chat that praised inclusiveness, lgbt, etc. Which basically makes the OSR into the whitewashed wasteland a lot of fatbeards would like it to be.

Tenkar seems like an OK guy but he needs to clarify.

Edit:

quote:

I've never posted about SJ issues. If they came up in the comments, it was commenters going back and fourth. My Mod hand has been a light one.

Going forward, I'll delete all pro and anti social justice comments. I'm not going to pick sides. 

I'm sure its not the answer desired, but it is the one I have

alg fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Nov 18, 2016

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

quote:

Going forward, I'll delete all pro and anti social justice comments. I'm not going to pick sides.  

"Bigotry or inclusiveness, I don't know, maybe the truth lies ~somewhere in the middle~". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


alg posted:

Which basically makes the OSR into the whitewashed wasteland a lot of fatbeards would like it to be.

Whitewashed Fatbeard Wasteland sounds like a great name for an OSR module. :v:

Comrade Koba fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Nov 18, 2016

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

quote:

Going forward, I'll delete all pro and anti social justice comments. I'm not going to pick sides.

https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Comrade Koba posted:

"Bigotry or inclusiveness, I don't know, maybe the truth lies ~somewhere in the middle~". :grin:

Oh, missed that line.

Yeah, gently caress that.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Is there a running tracker for which D&D classics are available for POD?

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Is there a running tracker for which D&D classics are available for POD?

The only thing I've found is the rpg.net thread, PoD starts on this page: https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?745901-D-amp-D-Classics-Thread-of-DOOM!/page85

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.
Does anyone have experience of running B/X with individual initiative? If so, how did it work out? I'm really considering it for a game I'm currently prepping because I just prefer it to team-based initiative because it allows for those quick changes in the flow of battle that characters need to react to right away. The only problem I can see with using that system would be that it'd basically remove the chance of disrupting spells unless I plugged in some extra rules about how long spells take to cast, but I'm not sure if that's worth all the trouble. Maybe something like spells taking 1d6 or however many "segments" or whatever to cast, but at that point we're basically in Hackmaster territory and I'm not sure I want to go there.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah, I did that - I did rolled initiative ala d20. I also treated spells the same way: your turn, you cast it, it happens.

If you wanted to allot for a chance to disrupt spells without adding too much rules cruft, make it so that the spell declaration happens during a player's turn, but the spell doesn't actually go off until the bottom of the round, and if the spellcaster gets hit before then, the spell is interrupted.

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Yeah, I did that - I did rolled initiative ala d20. I also treated spells the same way: your turn, you cast it, it happens.

If you wanted to allot for a chance to disrupt spells without adding too much rules cruft, make it so that the spell declaration happens during a player's turn, but the spell doesn't actually go off until the bottom of the round, and if the spellcaster gets hit before then, the spell is interrupted.

I thought about that, but I instantly realized it actually punishes the spellcaster for rolling high on their initiative: if you roll a six on initiative you declare your spell, and now everyone who rolled lower than you gets a chance to attack you. If you roll a 1 on initative you declare your spell and it instantly goes off (barring anyone with initiative penalties having rolled lower).

It's such a minor thing that it might not even be worth worrying about, but here's one more idea: what if taking damage broke your concentration so you can't cast a spell on the round after taking damage or failing a save? No tracking spell-casting times, no chance of actually losing spells because of losing concentration (which, admittedly, really sucks however you look at it), but still gives the group an incentive to protect their squishies while they're casting spells.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



gradenko_2000 posted:

If you wanted to allot for a chance to disrupt spells without adding too much rules cruft, make it so that the spell declaration happens during a player's turn, but the spell doesn't actually go off until the bottom of the round, and if the spellcaster gets hit before then, the spell is interrupted.

I've done exactly that in BECMI. Cast your spell when it's your move, and it goes off at the end of the round unless you get interrupted. Same for the baddies. All spells happen simultaneously.

It makes MUs quite a bit less good by making it pretty rare that a spell goes off. I'd put something in to compensate, like a force bolt basic attack (damage 1d6, range 15', requires attack roll, goes off on your own turn) or nobody's gonna want to go MU.

Ratpick posted:

I thought about that, but I instantly realized it actually punishes the spellcaster for rolling high on their initiative: if you roll a six on initiative you declare your spell, and now everyone who rolled lower than you gets a chance to attack you. If you roll a 1 on initative you declare your spell and it instantly goes off (barring anyone with initiative penalties having rolled lower).

It's such a minor thing that it might not even be worth worrying about, but here's one more idea: what if taking damage broke your concentration so you can't cast a spell on the round after taking damage or failing a save? No tracking spell-casting times, no chance of actually losing spells because of losing concentration (which, admittedly, really sucks however you look at it), but still gives the group an incentive to protect their squishies while they're casting spells.

Oh, you noticed that and posted about it while I was replying.

"If you get hit, no spell next round" seems a neat way to do it. Still seems like it'd get MUs locked down a fair bit though - they just have such bad AC.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Nov 28, 2016

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

AlphaDog posted:

Oh, you noticed that and posted about it while I was replying.

"If you get hit, no spell next round" seems a neat way to do it. Still seems like it'd get MUs locked down a fair bit though - they just have such bad AC.

Yeah, even that might be a bit too harsh without giving other characters some way to protect spellcasters. To be fair, Magic-Users in B/X have it hard enough as it is, so coming up with cumbersome rules to screw them out of spell-casting might not be worth it.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
A Fighter with initiative 6 going up against an MU with initiative 1 should still be able to say "if the MU tries to start casting a spell, I will attack them"

So the MU declares a spell-cast, the Fighter rolls their attack, and if the attack hits, the spell doesn't go off.

If the MU doesn't try to cast a spell, then the Fighter's declaration isn't triggered.

[We've also inadvertently played out how and why D&D designers felt that Readied Actions had to be a thing that was codified]

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