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Optimus_Rhyme posted:Though, I will say, going to the telsa show rooms sucks. It's nice they leave you alone but at the same time I feel like I'm bothering the one person there with my questions about the car and they feel so sterile. I only have 3 data points, but I agree that they're a little distant. They know it too; I talked with the sales agent at one about how I felt I had to pester to get help, and he said that "Corporate" was working on a new "interaction style" to help with that. It's very Elon, I laughed.
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Nov 8, 2016 00:38
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Car salesmen are literally the worst people you will ever talk to.
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Nov 8, 2016 00:38
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withak posted:Used Car salesmen are literally the worst people you will ever talk to.
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Nov 8, 2016 00:40
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boner confessor posted:this also runs into the same problem the burgerflipper replaced by POS system argument has - a significant portion of people really, really get off on complaining to and about retail employees and trying low key scams to get free stuff. there's a market demand for that Generally businesses want to jettison those types of customers. Ever hear of the 90 10 rule? Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 02:26
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Arsenic Lupin posted:What are the hardest-to-ship cargos? That sounds interesting. Radioactive, explosive, out of grade, break bulk, bulk cargos that liquify, and hazardous materials in general. Also high value stuff, semi conductor manufacturing equipment, transformers, etc. The not for profit I work for came up with the securing for the Peita in the sixties. I've been involved with jobs insured for a billion dollars. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 02:30
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BrandorKP posted:Radioactive, explosive, out of grade, break bulk, bulk cargos that liquify, and hazardous materials in general. Also high value stuff, semi conductor manufacturing equipment, transformers, etc. The not for profit I work for came up with the securing for the Peita in the sixties. I've been involved with jobs insured for a billion dollars. Do you have a thread? I bet I'm not the only goon who'd be fascinated.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:43
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There is a marine transportation thread. I also posted a bit about grain ships in the agribusiness thread. If I change jobs I'll post one someday.
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Nov 8, 2016 04:05
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BrandorKP posted:You're in for a surprise if the current logistics in the supply chain textbooks are any where near accurate. I'm saying this as some one intimately involved with the hardest to ship intermodal international cargos. It's not going to be quick, but automating exactly what you are talking about is basically the next big thing in logistics. I wouldn't be surprised if International cargo was heading that way; everything's containerized these days. It's what happens after those containers get emptied that's the issue. Arsenic Lupin posted:Professional car salesmen do not "help" me. Professional car salesmen are there to make a profit. Period. How can a "professional" help me if my goal is to find the car most suited to my needs, considering the offerings of multiple manufacturers? I'm not aware that that specialist exists. I don't know anybody who considers a car salesman helpful; buying a car is one of the most dreaded rituals along with bathing-suit shopping Every professional is there to make a profit. The good ones make you feel like you got a good deal out of it too. People don't like buying cars because it's the second most expensive purchase most people will ever make in their lives (behind a house, which is notoriously stressful as well). computer parts fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 05:07
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computer parts posted:Every professional is there to make a profit. The good ones make you feel like you got a good deal out of it too.
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Nov 8, 2016 05:23
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Arsenic Lupin posted:My accountant and financial planner take fees up front, of a specified amount. (The financial planner is a member of the fee-only association, meaning that he doesn't take payment from the financial instruments he invests in.) That puts their interests in line with mine, because they want me to stick around and work with them next year, but they do not profit by decisions I make other than by their own fees. Well no, it encourages them to satisfy you, but what satisfies you might not be what's actually in your very best interest (and they would know that better than you, because they're the educated professional and you're not). That same information asymmetry is why the popular stereotype of car salesmen exists as well. And here's the thing - most people are satisfied by their car purchases. computer parts fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 05:32
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computer parts posted:Well no, it encourages them to satisfy you, but what satisfies you might not be what's actually in your very best interest (and they would know that better than you, because they're the educated professional and you're not). But if we had the option to choose between a car store with clear prices and a traditional dealership it's almost certain most people would prefer the former if it weren't for the fact that it's illegal. Only suckers and professional negotiators prefer interacting with literal car salesmen.
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Nov 8, 2016 06:51
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ShadowHawk posted:But if we had the option to choose between a car store with clear prices and a traditional dealership it's almost certain most people would prefer the former if it weren't for the fact that it's illegal. Only suckers and professional negotiators prefer interacting with literal car salesmen. 80% of people buying (new) cars report being satisfied with their purchases. Your idea doesn't seem to stand up to reality.
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Nov 8, 2016 07:51
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2015 studiesquote:Accenture surveyed 10,000 people in the U.S. and a handful of other countries about buying cars, and the results show that most consumers aren’t exactly fans of the standard car dealership experience. In fact, three-quarters said that “if given the opportunity, they would consider making their entire car-buying process online, including financing, price negotiation, back office paperwork and home delivery.” quote:Really, it comes down to the haggle. According to Edmunds, 83 percent of the 1,002 people surveyed would rather avoid haggling, with nine out of 10 saying they'd be more excited about the car-buying process if it meant a haggle-free experience (Saturn, you were on to something). Care to cite some statistics about people's satisfaction with the purchase process, as opposed to with their vehicles?
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Nov 8, 2016 08:00
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Care to cite some statistics about people's satisfaction with the purchase process, as opposed to with their vehicles? You stated you were at odds with a car dealer because they wanted to have you spend more money. That pretty closely ties into what car you eventually purchase.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:02
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computer parts posted:You stated you were at odds with a car dealer because they wanted to have you spend more money. That pretty closely ties into what car you eventually purchase. You keep trying to treat customer satisfaction with the object and customer satisfaction with the buying process as interchangeable, and they aren't. We aren't talking about "do people love their cars?" We are talking about "do people love *buying* their cars?", and the answer is no, as attested in the surveys above. There is also the sunk-cost fallacy to consider. "Do you like your car?" is asking not just "Do you like your car?" but "Did you make the right decision?" and for a fraught decision like car-buying, nobody wants to consider having made a bad decision.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:25
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I bought a Scion FR-S instead of a Subaru BRZ (the same car from the same factory) because Scion doesn't haggle.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:39
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Progressive JPEG posted:I bought a Scion FR-S instead of a Subaru BRZ (the same car from the same factory) because Scion doesn't haggle. People honestly want to contact the Internet Team/Sales, do the back and forth during a lunch break (I saw X price can you do Y? Ok Z sounds good see you in a few hours), and basically be sent papers to e-sign, look over, make sure the math is right, then walk into the dealer and walk out in 30 minutes. Like, the ease with which we make purchases like computers, phones and TVs is the standard. Car purchases are hardly ever that easy. Now, the problem with something like Beepi, which tries to make car purchasing that easy, is the price usually isn't as nice looking as one would like. But that's the price of the convenience.
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Nov 8, 2016 09:04
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FilthyImp posted:People honestly want to contact the Internet Team/Sales, do the back and forth during a lunch break (I saw X price can you do Y? Ok Z sounds good see you in a few hours), and basically be sent papers to e-sign, look over, make sure the math is right, then walk into the dealer and walk out in 30 minutes. Like, the ease with which we make purchases like computers, phones and TVs is the standard. Car purchases are hardly ever that easy. My last car purchase involved mass emailing a bunch of dealers with my best offer and going to the first one that said "yes" without trying to get me to come down to talk in person and/or on the phone first. It was pretty great, and my only real complaint is that I had to fight off salespeople when I was going around doing comparison test drives a few week earlier. The car buying process is in general pretty unfriendly to consumers and doubly so if you're trying to make an informed purchase. Legitimate comparison shopping is a huge hassle because there's a ton of (understandable) pressure to actually sell you a car if you're test driving multiple models. Edit- Basically, the whole model for buying a car is broken and doesn't seem to actually be what anyone wants. If you're an engaged, informed consumer then you probably just want to drive whatever your top few choices are and come to a decision on your own. If you just need a car and aren't willing to do much research then the process borders on predatory. There's no one that wouldn't be better served by cutting out the actual car buying sales process. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 09:09
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Paradoxish posted:Edit- Basically, the whole model for buying a car is broken and doesn't seem to actually be what anyone wants. If you're an engaged, informed consumer then you probably just want to drive whatever your top few choices are and come to a decision on your own. If you just need a car and aren't willing to do much research then the process borders on predatory. There's no one that wouldn't be better served by cutting out the actual car buying sales process. Again, what makes you think this latter group will be better served? You seem to be under the impression that people will just sack up and do all the research since there's no one there to (even nominally) give them advice. What would probably happen (and honestly what is happening right now) is that cars would be bought based on the number of ads on your screen, just like drug commercials. F-150 makes me manly, let's get that!
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Nov 8, 2016 15:52
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computer parts posted:Again, what makes you think this latter group will be better served? You seem to be under the impression that people will just sack up and do all the research since there's no one there to (even nominally) give them advice.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:00
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computer parts posted:Again, what makes you think this latter group will be better served? You seem to be under the impression that people will just sack up and do all the research since there's no one there to (even nominally) give them advice. That's what they already do, except the process of buying the car sucks. I need to find the study again but people put less time into shopping for a car than a whole host of home goods like mattresses. In fact the longest shopping planning period is engagement rings and people still get ripped off on stop so it's not as though most consumers actually do any legwork.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:01
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Humans always report themselves satisfied with large purchases due to rationalization.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I'm waiting for your research proving that people don't dislike the haggling process and the car-buying process. I never disputed that. In fact, I said the car-buying process was inherently stressful. Please note, to people reading: this does not imply that there are no improvements to be made to the process.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:05
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computer parts posted:I wouldn't be surprised if International cargo was heading that way; everything's containerized these days. It's what happens after those containers get emptied that's the issue. That's one that can be knocked out with linear programming models. The problem isn't that lines can't figure out how to efficiently allocate empties. It's that their interests regarding the allocation of empties and shippers interests are not in alignment. That one can't get ammo grade, food grade, or flats inland, isn't because the lines are failing to move them there. It's because they don't want to move them there. It's not optimal for them.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:44
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BrandorKP posted:That's one that can be knocked out with linear programming models. The problem isn't that lines can't figure out how to efficiently allocate empties. It's that their interests regarding the allocation of empties and shippers interests are not in alignment. That one can't get ammo grade, food grade, or flats inland, isn't because the lines are failing to move them there. It's because they don't want to move them there. It's not optimal for them. I think you misunderstand, I'm not talking about shipping containers, but the products inside of them.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:45
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computer parts posted:Again, what makes you think this latter group will be better served? You seem to be under the impression that people will just sack up and do all the research since there's no one there to (even nominally) give them advice. They'd be better served by a process that was less time consuming and stressful, even if they weren't necessarily making better purchasing decisions. The point is that there's no real benefit to the consumer that comes from how car buying works right now.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:53
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Paradoxish posted:They'd be better served by a process that was less time consuming and stressful, even if they weren't necessarily making better purchasing decisions. The point is that there's no real benefit to the consumer that comes from how car buying works right now. The benefit is having someone to talk to and go through the process. Even being predatory, many people favor this over going it alone. That's why the way forward is to regulate and improve that relationship and not just burn down everything.
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Nov 8, 2016 16:54
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computer parts posted:The benefit is having someone to talk to and go through the process. Even being predatory, many people favor this over going it alone. Lots of other industries manage to sell things and have people selling the things and not have "salesmen". There is no reason it has to be this way.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:00
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computer parts posted:80% of people buying (new) cars report being satisfied with their purchases. Your idea doesn't seem to stand up to reality. computer parts posted:People don't like buying cars because it's the second most expensive purchase most people will ever make in their lives (behind a house, which is notoriously stressful as well). computer parts posted:I never disputed that. In fact, I said the car-buying process was inherently stressful. I agree that there are substantial improvements to be made to the process: let me research however I prefer, come into the dealership with a fixed price, and, if I lease, have payments calculated based on that price.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:06
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Lots of other industries manage to sell things and have people selling the things and not have "salesmen". There is no reason it has to be this way. Real estate is the only larger purchase most people will make in their lives and that industry is full of people working on commission (a fixed percent commission, but still one that emphasizes maximizing dollar values). Arsenic Lupin posted:You keep gliding over the point that people consider car-buying inherently stressful because of car dealerships' practices. It's not because the prices are high. Finances are the largest stressor in a relationship so I'd like to see you prove that specifically. And again, I am not saying the currently system of car buying is perfect, just that a similar system will necessarily have to exist for lots of people (as opposed to "buy on the internet"). computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 17:23
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computer parts posted:Finances are the largest stressor in a relationship so I'd like to see you prove that specifically. This is such a non-sequitur of an argument. Single people buy cars too, you haven't proven that people enjoy the car purchasing process.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:33
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WampaLord posted:This is such a non-sequitur of an argument. Single people buy cars too, you haven't proven that people enjoy the car purchasing process. They don't enjoy it, because large purchases are inherently stressful.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:32
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Has anybody heard anything about startups lately?
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Nov 8, 2016 17:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Lots of other industries manage to sell things and have people selling the things and not have "salesmen". There is no reason it has to be this way. State law, in many states, is the reason it has to be that way.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:49
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computer parts posted:They don't enjoy it, because large purchases are inherently stressful. True! But large purchases where you have to deal with car salesmen (of all things) are even more stressful.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:57
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trucutru posted:True! But large purchases where you have to deal with car salesmen (of all things) are even more stressful. In their current form, yeah probably.
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Nov 8, 2016 18:03
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Discendo Vox posted:Let's not forget the most successful of all the digital startups.
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Nov 8, 2016 23:06
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No link, just a tweet with no citation:quote:@zerohedge
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Nov 8, 2016 23:22
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Arsenic Lupin posted:No link, just a tweet with no citation: Yep, it's happening http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/8/13568028/walgreens-theranos-lawsuit-140-million-delaware http://www.businessinsider.com/walgreens-files-lawsuit-against-theranos-2016-11 Closed suit though, so no details are likely to come out for a long time.
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Nov 8, 2016 23:27
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I just got spam urging me to get in early on marijuana stocks.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:24
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