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Bholder posted:I'm surprised nobody pointed it out yet...  It's pretty blatant in the original sprites. I had a passing interest in Phoenix Wright when I first read Umineko, but this sprite caught me off-guard in an "Oh my god, really?????" sort of way.
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Nov 7, 2016 23:07
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| # ? May 11, 2024 05:47 |
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yeah, PW got referenced a lot in that period, Haruhi had an entire segment where she was almost frame for frame imitating Phoenix's mannerisms (and Kyon rolling his eyes the entire time), makes sense this got carried over in the updated artwork - and I believe Agatha Christie got mentioned in passing.
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Nov 8, 2016 00:09
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If they wanted to pull inspiration from anything, Phoenix Wright is a good way to go. Fantastic series with an average, non-superpowered protagonist using only their guts, smarts, and heart in order to take down people far larger than them. In addition to that similarity between Phoenix and Battler's positions, another thing that is similar is how the creators behind used social issues to craft a story upon (family secrets/abuse for Umineko, Japan's terrible court system for Phoenix Wright). I'm all for Battler yelling objection towards Beatrice 's contradictions. Edit: holy poo poo that sprite is almost identical to Phoenix's. EagerSleeper fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 00:13
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oath2order posted:I don't believe we have a Red Truth confirming Beatrice is not 3 chimpanzees stacked on top of each other wearing a ball room gown. Now now, the second chimpanzee is the brassiere.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:49
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 October 5th, 1986, 7:30 AM  Battler and George, who had cried, raged, and let their emotions explode after seeing their parents' tragic bodies, returned to the parlor and sat in the sofas, dazed, as though everything up until then had been a lie... Only Maria was completely unchanged, and looked just like normal. When she wasn't playing pranks, she was basically a kid who played wordlessly by herself, so even if she was dazed, she would probably look as she did. But as she turned on the TV and flipped through the channels, it looked as though nothing about her had changed from normal. Did Rosa think anything in particular about this attitude, which was clearly different from normal people? She stared at Maria's back with a gaze that wasn't quite pleasant. Eventually, Kumasawa came to say good morning. Her cheerful manner was clearly out of place, and she couldn't help but be bewildered at the strange atmosphere in the room. Then, she heard the details from Gohda, and was really noisy and shocked.   "...Please calm down and listen. It seems that a machine was somehow done in by lightning last night. Because of that, we haven't been able to use the phones..." "Eeeehhh!! Th, then, until the typhoon passes, we can't even contact the police?!"Maybe Kumasawa's exaggerated surprise was a little comical. Even in this kind of situation, Rosa giggled. Because of that, the fog of confusion that had covered her head cleared up a little.  "...I've got to stay strong. It's not just Maria. I'm acting as a parent for George-kun and Battler-kun too, so I have to stay strong..."Rosa had been the youngest sibling, with a large difference in age between her and the others. So she was always treated as a child. Every time she learned something new, it was something obvious to her brothers and sister, and she had grown a complex, thinking that she must be incompetent. So she had formed a passive attitude, asking her brothers and sister for advice every time something happened... ...But she no longer had any brothers or sisters. Now, Rosa was the only one of the four Ushiromiya siblings left. Furthermore, if Kinzo continued to shut himself away even in this extraordinary situation, Rosa had to surpass this crisis as the representative of the head.  "...I'm not a child anymore, not a child..."...Rosa slapped her knees lightly and stood up. She must not wait for orders now. She had to start moving herself. She picked up the receiver to the extension phone on the side table. Then she immediately remembered that the phones were down. Genji and Shannon, who she had sent to see Kinzo, hadn't returned yet. She had a general guess. He was probably yelling about something nonsensical again, unable to control himself. His important chapel had been defiled with blood. That was easy to imagine. She had planned on using the extension phone to call the study, but unfortunately, the phones were broken. Rosa decided to go to the study directly, with her own two feet. Her old self would be so frightened that she wouldn't have been able go to see Kinzo. If she actually met him, she would probably be blamed for something and abused. But now wasn't a time to be frightened. As his true daughter, she had to make him aware of the current situation.   "Yes, yes... That may be true...It is truly pitiable... I shall make them something warm to drink." "Thank you."Rosa went out into the hallway, and headed towards Kinzo's study. The atmosphere in this mansion, which she had spent her younger days in and should have been full of memories, seemed somehow different... Then she began to climb the stairs in the entrance hall... ...Just then. In the thin darkness down the stairs behind Rosa's back... something glowed.  ...Obviously. No one can hear the sound of a butterfly's wings beating. ...And then, it stopped on Rosa's back as she slowly climbed the stairs. Rosa didn't notice. And even if someone who didn't know saw it, they probably wouldn't have seen anything but a single sheet of gold leaf in the shape of a butterfly which had been stuck there. Without noticing, Rosa continued heading to Kinzo's study...   If there was anything audible other than that, it was the sound of the rain which had continued on and on since last night. Every one of those who had viewed that unearthly and horrible scene stayed silent, as though praying that the events of this morning were all a dream. Because Kumasawa alone hadn't seen that, she acted slightly differently. She thought that this silence was more difficult to bear, and went around trying to encourage everyone. However, it seemed that she was planning to be of some use, even though she had to be careful what she talked to them about... Normally it would be time for breakfast. However, maybe it was because something like that had happened, but Gohda seemed to have forgotten to prepare a meal. No, maybe everyone was so beaten up that they had forgotten their hunger. Kumasawa wanted to bring up the subject of what they would do for breakfast, but it didn't seem like the right atmosphere, so she really couldn't. But it was difficult being hungry. So, she casually made a proposal.   "...Hmm, that is a good plan. I agree as well." "Hoh-hoh-ho. How about some delicious black tea with biscuits and jam? Yes, yes, it seems that it is near Halloween, and there are some delicious-looking pumpkin-shaped cookies on the shelf..." "...Ah, Kumasawa-san, that's..."  Of course, she had said the wrong thing. Because she had reminded Battler and the rest about that horrible and tragic Halloween party in the chapel... Nanjo hurriedly whispered into Kumasawa's ear.  "..." "...Battler-san, I am truly sorry! I didn't mean anything bad, gracious no..." "No, don't worry about it. I'll definitely turn this boiling anger back on the culprit." "...I wonder if that culprit is still on the island." "Probably. At least, until the typhoon passes, no boat will come." "Y... yes, that is true! Because the boats don't come even if there is a little wind. They certainly wouldn't come during a typhoon, yes!" "...It creeps me out." "You think so too, Aniki? Me too. ...Whether the culprit was that mystery guest or not." BGM: Stupefaction  "...When I think of it that way, there's something I just can't understand." "What... do you mean by that...?" "It's simple. It's just like Kumasawa baa-chan said a short while ago. Right now, this island is right in the midst of the typhoon, and escape is impossible. The same thing goes for the culprit. In that case, having the crime come to light should have been the thing that the culprit most wanted to avoid." "...That's right. There was no need to draw that creepy magic circle on the entrance to the chapel, and show off the fact that the corpses were there." "Right, that's what it means. Furthermore, if they were able to take the time and effort to do something so horrible to those six people, it should have been possible for them to hide the six corpses where they would be impossible to find." "...The culprit knew that they wouldn't be able to run away from this island for a while. And yet, they acted as though they wanted to make us find the corpses in the middle of this typhoon. Whatdoes this mean? If I was the culprit, I definitely wouldn't play around and make us find the corpses." "...Beatrice-sama was not in her room. The room did not seem particularly disturbed... Ah, no, Milady did disturb it quite a lot though..." BGM: Hour of Darkness  "Kanon-san is looking after her. They are probably in Milady's room." "...That isn't good. The culprit is definitely still on the island. In this situation, I don't believe it's a very good idea to isolate ourselves in small numbers." "Wh, what do you mean by that...? Y, y, you don't mean to say that the culprit plans to kill all of us...?! Awawawawawawawawa..." "Let us remain calm... That is not yet certain..." "But even if it's stressful, we can't deny that the possibility exists. Ihihi. This letter was in the chapel. According to this, the culprit is the witch, and if we don't solve the riddle of Grandfather's epitaph and find the gold, they'll massacre the whole family..., something like that." "Is that true...! Umm, would you allow me to read it as well...?" "Hi, hi... hi, hieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... eeeeeeeeee... hh..." "...Umumumumumumumu..."As they read the witch's letter, Gohda, Kumasawa, and Nanjo's faces grew even paler than they had been... Kumasawa could no longer hide her shaking. "...If you don't want to die, try finding Grandfather's hidden gold, is it? Screwing around with us. I'll bet you can't solve the riddle, so you're trying to make us solve it...!" "However, I wonder what the truth is. Madam always stated that the Legend of the Gold was nothing more than an illusion created by the Master. It is doubtful whether that actually existed..." "True... Supposedly, they thought it would be nice if it existed, and only somewhat believed it. All of the relatives started believing in the Legend of the Gold after Kinzo's health worsened and the inheritance problem came up. I believe there are very few people who believe it very much." BGM: Mind "E... excuse me, please wait. Just now, did you say three gold bars...?" "...Yeah, there were definitely three of them piled up. So what?" "Well, umm, I... happened to hear Krauss-sama say something. Yes, I just heard it, right?! It's not like I was trying to listen to secret discussions, yes!" "Don't worry about that now. So then what? What's wrong with there being three of those gold bars?" "...Y, yes. According to Krauss-sama, there was only one bar ever found to support the Legend of the Gold." "...That is correct. I do believe the story goes that Kinzo-san showed the president of Marusoo a mountain of gold, and let him take one bar back with him." "And that one came to be in Krauss-sama's possession. And, he also said that there was no gold which supported the Master's Legend of the Gold besides that one..." "You're talking about my uncle here, right? So what does that mean? ...No wait... 3?! Wait, wait, where did they come from, that's too many, right?!" "Might you not think of it this way? Maybe the other people in the family each found one, and they each brought one of them there..." "No, I cannot believe that. When all of the relatives came to the mansion, I was entrusted with their luggage. I did not feel a suspicious weight back then." "...I think those would weigh about 10kg. If that much weight was in their bags, even I would notice. But it didn't seem that way." "Same here. At the most, there were some changes of clothes, medicine, Kyrie-san's makeup. Stuff like that, I think. Aunt Rosa's luggage also looked pretty light." "...In that case, those three piled up gold bars were being shown to them... or maybe us. The Legend of the Gold is definitely real. It isn't an illusion. They're trying to force us to uncover the gold." "Could there be a scheme... to have us solve the epitaph which points to the hidden location, and then try to snatch it away?" "...That does fit. But there are a couple parts that don't make sense. First, our parents, who should have been the most likely to solve the epitaph, were killed first. I think that suddenly creates a contradiction." "Maybe the culprit, like uncle Krauss, obtained those three and is therefore certain about the Legend of the Gold, and is trying to make us search for the rest... I think that way fits the best." "...The pieces on the chessboard aren't lined up at all. We don't have a clue what the culprit is planning, what they want, what they want to make us do. Is it pointless? No matter what we think, at this point in time..." "...Kihihi. It was written down. What she wanted to do. Couldn't anyone read it, kihihihihihihihihihi."Maria suddenly laughed in a creepy voice. I'd thought she had been concentrating on the TV, but she was also listening in, apparently. As she remained facing the TV, she very simply told us what we were forgetting.   "...Although I bet she thinks it'll be impossible for you anyway. Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi..." "...So you're saying you can solve it, Maria?" "...Do-n't care. After all, she'll take Maria to the Golden Land. Won't get in Beatrice's way." "Kihihihihihihihihihihi, ouch." "In any case, it looks like to understand any more than this, there's nothing we can do except ask Maria. Maria, tell us. Who is this Beatrice? What is she planning?" "Kihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi! You know, Beatrice is a witch! She can do anything with her strange power. Anything can be done with the power of magic. You can even create gold, even create bread. And of course, you can create sweets, right? You saw, didn't you? Kihihihihihihihihihihihihi hihihihihihihihihihihi!"At that time, everyone jumped at the sound of a door being closed forcefully.  ...Then she rapidly approached Maria, her heels squeaking, and hit her on the cheek.  "...Stop talking about that. Battler-kun and the rest will take it badly." "...Uu-..."Without waiting for a response, she hit Maria's cheek once more. Everyone could only stand there, shocked. "I don't know what uu- means. What about yes?" "...Uu-."She mercilessly hit Maria's cheek again. Maybe she didn't feel like resisting after being hit twice. Maria weakly said yes. "R, Rosa-san, there was no reason to do something so harsh..." "...This is my daughter's education. Do not interrupt."The atmosphere around Rosa, accompanied by Genji and Shannon, was somehow cold, and yet dignified... completely different from how she had seemed before she left. We saw that Aunt Rosa was holding something that looked like a gun. I couldn't imagine that she would be holding a toy in this situation. "Aunt Rosa, what is...?"  "...I agree. Rather than trying to figure out what the culprit is planning, it might be better to first think about our own safety." "..." "Father was alright, but he was slightly distracted by these sudden events. Fortunately, he said that he won't leave his room, so he's probably safe. Now, we should do all we can to gather in the same place." "...I agree. We don't even know where the culprit is hiding, so... anyways, there's no proof that there's only one of them..."I said it myself, and shivered. That's right. Could a single person kill six people and create such a horrible scene all alone? Isn't it natural to assume that this crime was carried out by multiple culprits? "...I agree with Rosa-san. It is probably good for us to gather in one place." "Yes, yes, I also think that is good, yes, yes!" "...Maybe it would be good to call Milady and Kanon-san here by now." "That's right. Let's have them come down."George-aniki tried to grab the extension phone, but Gohda-san shook his head. That's right, we couldn't use the phones right now. "...I'll go with a couple people. If George-aniki and Gohda-san also come, that should be enough." "...'Wolves and Sheep Puzzle'?" "...Uu-. Maria, has it. Show you." "Maria, turn off the television. Genji-san. Please tell me where Jessica-chan's room is. Let's all go together." "...Yes. I will guide you." "Come on, everyone. We'll move together. Follow my instructions."We stood up. Maria alone looked like she had some regrets about the TV, but she went along with everyone for now, and got up. "...Shannon, thank goodness. I was worried when you took so long to get back." "I am sorry to have worried you. The Master ordered me to copy down something..." "Copy down?" "...Shannon." "I... I am sorry, excuse me..." BGM: At Death's Door Jessica and Kanon-kun were a boy and a girl of about the same age. That'd sure be a shame if we walked in on them at a bad time, or at least that's what we would be joking about normally. However, Aunt Rosa was on edge, constantly overflowing with a sense of tension. So it really wasn't the kind of atmosphere where we could joke like that. "Hey, don't fall behind!! Everyone move together! We don't know when or where the culprit might leap out at us, right?!"...No, maybe Aunt Rosa's attitude was more appropriate. Since Grandfather hadn't come down, Aunt Rosa was the leader. This wasn't a situation where she could smile like she always did. And Aunt Rosa was herself a mother. She probably also thought that, if she didn't get a hold of herself, some harm might befall her beloved daughter. The culprit had killed six of our parents at once. The method they had used was unknown, but there was a good chance that this opponent could take down a large number of people in an instant. Was that with weapons, or with numbers? Or was it the magic of a witch? In any case, it definitely didn't look like an element we could get careless about... The rest of us should also take much, much greater care, like Aunt Rosa... "...Everyone, stop!"Aunt Rosa spoke in a sharp voice. We wondered what it was, and when we peered forwards... we immediately noticed the reason...   "Hii...!" "Everyone, get back...!"Gohda-san and Genji-san approached the door... Beyond the door, was probably Jessica's room. "This... seems to be the same paint that was scribbled on the door to the chapel." "...It appears so. It appears that not much time has passed since it was drawn." "What is that... another... magic circle?!" "...It's the first magic circle of the moon. It has the power to open unopened doors."The door to Jessica's room... had that creepy scribble on it which had been drawn on the door to the chapel. That strange pattern definitely had some meaning related to the occult. But it didn't matter what that meaning was. We were worried about whether those two were alright. "Th, that doesn't matter! Are Jessica-chan and Kanon-kun alright?!" "...I have a bad premonition... We should quickly take those two downstairs." "Milady! Milady!! Are you there? Please answer!!"Gohda-san knocked violently and yelled, but there was no answer.  "...Rosa-sama, it seems to be locked." "There are no other options. Please open it."Genji nodded, and Gohda quickly unlocked the door with the master key. In the back of my mind, horrible images floated up and disappeared, one after another. A magic circle had been drawn on the door to the chapel. And six corpses had been behind that. So, if there was a magic circle drawn on the door to Jessica's room, then beyond it...  BGM: Requiem  "Wh, what happened? Is she there?!" "Jessica!! What happened?!!"...It was truly heartless. The expression on Gohda-san's face and what he said when he opened the door, prepared us for the brutal fate that Jessica might have met, even without seeing her... Everyone rushed into Jessica's room at once. That scene told everyone that their worst fears were right on...   "...How... horrible... D... Doctor Nanjo!!"Inside the room, which seemed elegant for her age, Jessica had fallen over. There was a large pool of blood on the floor. And there was a knife or something sticking deep into her back... Was it a knife? There was a design in the handle that had to have been done in a devil motif. Was it a weapon with some occult meaning? Definitely. "...This is... horrible. She has passed away. This, probably, reached her lungs... Not much time has passed since she died." "Jessicaaaaaaaaaaaa!! drat it, drat iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!" "...B, Battler-sama..." "I was naive!! I knew it!! Since they couldn't escape the island, the culprit was definitely close by! Then why didn't I get cautious sooner!! I was naive!! I just assumed that the culprit would commit a crime and then sneak away!" "...We were stunned then. We thought it was just too bad that Jessica-chan gave in to rage and ran off. But we were naive. We should have stopped her...!" "...Gohda-san, why did you leave those two alone! If only you had been with them, something like this...!!" "N, no, th... that is, umm!! I said it was dangerous so we should return! It's just that, Milady said that she wanted to be alone! Kanon-san told me to leave it to him, and...!"  "That's right! What in the world happened to Kanon-kun?!" "K, Kanon-kun... Where..." "Kanon-san should have been with Milady... Where in the world...!" "You don't think, they got him...?!" "...Quiet. Someone might be hiding in this room. Search under the bed and in the closet."There was a chance that Kanon-kun's corpse had been pushed away somewhere. At Rosa-san's order, everyone searched throughout the room together. But there wasn't a single human hiding anywhere. "...He's nowhere!! Could the culprit have taken him out of the room?! Then we have to search for him quickly and save him! If we're slow, something awful might happen!! Aunt Rosa, let's search all over the mansion! Let's search for the culprit! Let's save Kanon-kun!!" "...Quiet!!!"When Aunt Rosa yelled at us with a loud voice, we fell instantly silent. She was probably contemplating something. However, what in the world could that be...? ...Aunt Rosa walked around the room as though looking for something, or as though she was collecting her thoughts. Then, she found something on the side table by the bed, and picked it up.  BGM: None Aunt Rosa showed everyone a key with a cute mascot attached to it. Judging from its cute appearance, I didn't doubt that it was Jessica's key, but I had no way of knowing what key it was. "...It is probably the key to this... to Milady's room."After hearing that, Aunt Rosa made a point of going outside the door and checking. Without a doubt, it was the key to this room. "...I wonder why it was set in a place like this. Normally, don't you keep an important key in your pocket?" "...Umm... Milady wasn't in the habit of locking her room. It seems she would only do it when she went to school, because she didn't want Krauss-sama to look inside her room..." "...I see. She wasn't at school, so it's natural that Jessica-chan would set the key down here. How many keys can open this door?" "J... just the one Milady had..." "Can't it be opened with your master keys?" "...They can open it." "How many master keys are there? Are all of the servants holding them? Are there extras?" "Yes. We are all holding them. As for extras... I wonder." "There used to be several... but Madam strongly scolded us that this was careless, so they should have been dealt with." "...That is correct. There is only one held by each servant. There are no more."  "Hmm. Well, regarding that. I have noticed that having several master keys whose locations are unknown is quite disadvantageous for me." "...That's probably right. Since you want to make me believe in magic by using closed rooms, it would be really disadvantageous for you if there were more master keys than we supposed. In any event, every time a trick related to locks shows up, I planned to resist by arguing that the culprit possessed a master key that someone had lost in the past, or a duplicate." "Yes, that's correct. So I've decided to make a move to defeat that. I'll alter the setup." "...Messing with me. More importantly. What is this move? What's Aunt Rosa saying." "*cackle*cackle*. Who knows? You should try listening in." BGM: Fishy Aroma  "...And I've been able to specify the culprit who assaulted Jessica-chan, or maybe one of their accomplices." "Wh, what did you say...?! Who is that?!" "...Huh, eeeeh?! Wh, why Kanon-kun?!" "...But Jessica-chan's key was closed up in here. Which means it is only possible that one of the master keys locked it." "...It is as you say." "O, oh my!! It wasn't me, not me! Yes, I couldn't do something like that!" "...Kumasawa-san got up late. After we returned from the chapel to the parlor, we did meet you there, but it's impossible to prove where you were and what you were doing until that time. You watched us from the shadows, chased after Jessica-chan and Kanon-kun when they were isolated, and stealthily attacked them." "A, are you saying that I visited Milady's room, and did something so horrible?! I, I, I did no such thing! Yes, no such thing!!" "What about Gohda-san? You said that you left Jessica-chan in Kanon-kun's care and returned. But I wonder if that's true? I wonder if you didn't really kill the two of them, hide Kanon-kun's corpse, and then come back with an innocent look on your face?!" "Nothing of the sort happened! I, Gohda, swear that I did not do anything like that!!" "...I, it wasn't us...!! We were following the Master's orders..." "Yes. At least you and Genji-san are alright. That is backed up by what I heard from Father. The two of you were in Father's room the whole time, copying and witnessing for him. Father and I can guarantee that." "...Thank you very much." "In that case, I think the argument becomes who is more suspicious, Gohda-san or Kumasawa-san? I even thought that as soon as I entered this room. But still, I thought it was strange. Look at the state of Jessica-chan's body. Doesn't everyone think it's strange?" "...Strange... you say...?" "R, Rosa-sama, you couldn't mean... to say that was Kanon-kun...?" "Yes. We know well what state Jessica-chan was in right before she was killed. After seeing her parents' tragic bodies, Jessica-chan was very panicked. And it's easy to imagine that after she regained her composure, she would be in a horrible slump." "...Jessica-chan said to leave her alone. Then Kanon-kun, who is of a similar age, and may have some adolescent relationship with her, said to leave it to him. That feeling is also very understandable." "...So, for that reason, I think Jessica-chan welcomed Kanon-kun into her room. But what if it had been Gohda-san or Kumasawa-san? Would she have let them into her room?" "...I, I believe that I have gained Milady's trust. But even so, err..." "Then you are another suspect after all, right, Gohda-san? I thought that you probably weren't liked by Jessica-chan, so I believed she wouldn't have let you into her room. So I thought it was impossible that you were the culprit, but...?" "No, umm...! I am afraid to say that I may not have been accepted by Milady. Wh, what about you, Kumasawa-san?" "Ho, hohohohohoho! A senior like me is far too separated by age to understand the feelings of a young person like Milady very well... And perhaps Milady did not open her heart up to me. Right, Gohda-san?!" "Yes, that's right! She probably did not open her heart to us to a great degree! It would be inconceivable that Milady would let us into her room when she was heartbroken!" It was a really unpleasant routine. "Someone who would be permitted to enter Jessica-chan's room when she was heartbroken. Who would have been given access to her defenseless back. And that person had a master key. That only points to one person. It was impossible for anyone except Kanon-kun." "P, please, wait...! Kanon-kun definitely wouldn't do something like...!" "Oh, then is there someone else? Is Gohda-san or Kumasawa-san suspicious after all? Who do you think is more suspicious, Shannon-chan...? Come on." "I... I... something like that..." "It wasn't me, Shannon-san! Yes, it was not me!" "Of course, it wasn't me either! The people who had close relationships with Milady were Kanon-san, and then you, Shannon-san, right?!" "...Yeah, isn't that right? Jessica-chan might also let Shannon-chan into her room. But you should have been with Father. But in reality, were you the culprit...?" "Sh... Shannon couldn't be the culprit! Didn't you just say that she was doing some important work with Grandfather!" After being told that, no one could respond... Even if someone did argue back, they would then have to offer the name of a different suspicious person. And no matter whose name that was, that person was here. No one could do something like that. Aunt Rosa glanced at everyone in turn, fingering the gun like it was a toy... She seemed so different from the Aunt Rosa who was usually kind. No, it's probably because I don't feel the danger we're in. Maybe Aunt Rosa's attitude would seem natural if I really felt how much danger we were in... "It seems that no one has an opinion. Then I will say mine." "Of course, I cannot deny that Kanon-kun is a victim without a corpse. But until we find his corpse, I definitely can't deny the possibility that Kanon-kun is a suspect. There's a chance that Kanon-kun was attacked by the culprit and confined somewhere... and with that as an excuse, he may appear unexpectedly."
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Nov 8, 2016 14:03
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Full-size crime diagram #2-3:
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Nov 8, 2016 14:41
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"I'll teach you what it really means to disrespect the dead..." All of the positions of the other servants are known or could be accurately guessed, and we know the master key fact is real because Beato used the red... so thinking that it was Kanon that killed Jessica is a pretty logical hypothesis with the information we have. That still leaves the Chapel murders unsolved, as nobody (but Rosa, really, since we saw in her head) has an alibi for that. So if we really are leaving out the goat-man... who else could it have been? e: motherfucker, these names... This is the second time I've done that, haven't I? Me am reed gud 
resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 14:47
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resurgam40 posted:so thinking that it was Kanon that killed Shannon is a pretty logical hypothesis You might want to rephrase that. Shannon is still alive?
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Nov 8, 2016 16:18
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And also means the group will waste their time looking for Kanon or try to counter him, leaving the real culprit free to move about. I think there is a way to kill six people quickly and with little fuss: drugging them, after all Nanjo doesn't have a means to test for toxins: either before they enter the chapel and they were carried in (which would take a long while and increase risk of discovery), or afterwards (how did the culprit get all six to join them?)
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Nov 8, 2016 16:43
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I don't know about anyone else, but I think leaving the gun with Rosa instead of Natsuhi might just make things more messy. 
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Nov 8, 2016 17:04
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It is really suspicious that Kanon doesn't seem to be there. I know the magic-believing narrative (I think at this point it's easier to say "this is what happens ~with magic~  " and "this is how it would go in a world without magic  ", both seem to be 'true' from different angles) posits that he exploded into butterflies, but it just leaves a gaping loophole where there's a "murder" with no body, which seems pretty blindingly obvious as a loose end to unravel, either as an actual culprit or an incredibly intentional red herring by the real culprit.After all, if someone killed Kanon, they could just as easily make use of Kanon's master key as long as there's no confirmation it's on the body. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 17:05
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Robindaybird posted:And also means the group will waste their time looking for Kanon or try to counter him, leaving the real culprit free to move about. You can't just say "it was someone else lol" and drop it there, come on. If you say it was the 19th person, the witch will cackle at you. What a boring answer.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:54
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At least I'm glad that Rosa kicked over everything in the room to see if anybody was hiding there. For Eva and Hideyoshi's murders in the first episode, I think the murderer just hung out in the room in order to create that closed room crime scene, but in Jessica's murder, that same explanation can be ruled out.
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Nov 8, 2016 18:01
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Rosa seems to be more proactive and intelligent then Natshui, but she also seems to be much more suspicious. She also does her questioning in a meaner way.
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Nov 8, 2016 18:25
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It says there are only 5 master keys. It was never said (in red) that there was only one key to Jessica's room.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:20
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I fully expect things to get... Messy... now that Rosa "beats her probably-autistic daughter for being autistic/a child" Ushiromiya has the gun. Although I do like that she's more proactive about searching, at least.
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Nov 8, 2016 20:22
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curiousCat posted:It says there are only 5 master keys. It was never said (in red) that there was only one key to Jessica's room. That's a possibility, but what does it mean? Why are the servants lying about that key specifically?
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Nov 8, 2016 21:09
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Is it lying if they're unaware? For all we know, Jessica got a second key made herself. The point isn't whether it's logical or probable, the point is that it's possible.
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Nov 8, 2016 21:33
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We should also remember that Kinzo is really not a reliable witness on anything concerning Beatrice, so Genji and Shannon don't have perfect alibis. Though they do alibi each other so unless we're suspecting the full set of servants as collaborators it's hard to point fingers. And Kanons key being used is a very simple answer. It may not have been used by Kanon, though.
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Nov 8, 2016 22:05
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Qrr posted:We should also remember that Kinzo is really not a reliable witness on anything concerning Beatrice, so Genji and Shannon don't have perfect alibis. Though they do alibi each other so unless we're suspecting the full set of servants as collaborators it's hard to point fingers. I would remind you that it appears that Rosa meets with Shannon and Genji when she meets with Kinzo, so she would also appear to confirm their alibi for Jessica's murder.
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Nov 8, 2016 22:24
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As a heads up, and also as a shameless plug, there will be no updates this weekend, as I'll be participating in the Extra Life 24-hour gaming marathon charity drive. Or 25 hours, if I get a couple more donations.
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Nov 8, 2016 22:49
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So, I sat on my question from my last post for a while, and I've looked back over some of the mysteries from the first game. Namely, Eva's door and Kanon's death, as they're the biggest impossibilities in the narration. I know that the door is possible using a stencil and a can of spray paint, but I feel that's a bit of a cop-out. Likewise, we can theorise about the chemicals in Kinzo's study, but until we find something that I can interpret as a hint at either of these, neither of them feel right to me. So, where does that leave us? There's no other hints as to how the seal came to be on the door. I'll come back to this in a moment. Kanon's death is the other big stinker. This scene is where we're supposed to infer that he's ambushed by Beatrice, who's lain in wait in the boiler room after pushing Kinzo into the boiler. We don't see what exactly happens, until Kumasawa arrives and bears witness to the aftermath of the attack. Moving on briefly to Kanon's death here in the second game, we know that, at least under certain circumstances, scenes involving him are narrated unreliably; there's no way a human can conjure a lightsaber, furniture or not, and there's no way that a corpse can vanish into thin air. So, I propose that Kanon's death in the boiler room is the same, an unreliable scene. I'll use the flash we get of the portrait down there as evidence pointing towards it, and the golden butterflies that appear beforehand. So, what can we draw from this? In both his death scenes, the truth behind Kanon's death is obfuscated. Furthermore, Kanon is the witness to an impossible act, that of the paint appearing on the door in the first game, and his myriad interactions with Beatrice prior to October 4th. Finally, in 'magic' scenes, Kanon himself can wield magic on the same level as the witch's furniture. Where this puts Shannon I'm not too sure, as she too has interacted with the 'witch' Beatrice, but I digress. I theorise that Kanon is working with the witch. Based on the 'magic' scenes between him and the witch, we know he has a strong desire to protect Shannon and Jessica. If the culprit holds their lives over his head, I think he could be swayed to aiding the culprit. Based off this, I propose the following solution for the two mysteries: The scene where Kanon and Genji investigate the door to Eva's room is another unreliable scene. Kanon lied about the door, and convinced Genji to play along in order to protect Jessica. The culprit said something to the following effect to him: "Go to Eva's room with Genji, then break open the door. Convince everyone that the seal was not there when you first arrived. After this is done, meet me in the boiler room. If you do this, Jessica will not befall the same fate as Shannon." Once Kanon did all this, he met with the culprit, and was killed. Beatrice lies during both these scenes to prevent Battler from having an easy target to pin the blame on; he seems unwilling to doubt any of the other 18 this far, and whilst she seems keen to encourage him to blame one of them, handing him the identity of the accomplice is too easy. Another possible reason is to protect the illusion of magic. A witch doesn't need accomplices, after all. With this, the first game can easily be solved. Kanon provides the culprit with the shed key, and assists with the movement of the bodies to the shed. Kanon provides the culprit with his master key to commit Eva and Hideyoshi's murders. The culprit hides in the room, having left the key somewhere for Kanon. They then wait until the door is locked and everyone leaves, then jump out the window and run to the external boiler room door. Kanon and Kumasawa hear the door being shut, and Kanon takes his cue to hastily meet up with the culprit. After killing him, the culprit takes his master key again, waits for Maria to place the letter in the study, and shadows Maria's group to the parlour. The culprit uses Kanon's key to open the door, and kills the servants. Second game so far is the inverse. The culprit can carry out the first twilight alone as we've already theorised, then informs Kanon that unless he allows Jessica to die, Shannon will be killed too. I'm going to put money on Shannon surviving this game now that Jessica is dead. Of course, if Beatrice is kind enough to go back to the first game at some point and provide us with red, all this is just pointless guesswork. Until then, however, I believe this covers everything in the first game, and provides us with a hint for the second. Whatever's coming up, it's safe to say Kanon probably had an unwilling hand in preparing it.
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Nov 9, 2016 00:19
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curiousCat posted:It says there are only 5 master keys. No, it did not, which I found immediately suspicious. What if short-skirt Beatrice is actually a "servant"? Or the doctor?
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Nov 9, 2016 09:57
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 "I, I can't believe it... for Kanon-kun to do that... to Milady... that's too much!!" "I feel the same as Shannon. I oppose labeling Kanon-kun as the culprit." ""I I I, It wasn't us!!"" "If it wasn't Kanon-kun, then who could have opened this door? Shannon-chan. George-kun. Right? Right right right...?"Aunt Rosa closed in on Shannon-chan and George-aniki, laughing unpleasantly. Of course, they couldn't say anything back. They wanted to believe in Kanon-kun. But if they did, they would have to suspect the other servants. The simplest culprit was the mystery guest Beatrice. But she was nothing more than a guest, and didn't have a master key. Then if Beatrice was the culprit without a master key... Do we have to accept the argument that she really is a witch, and locked the door with the power of magic...?   "What are you worried about? Make it my fault. You can just make it the fault of the 19th person, the mystery guest, right? If you do, you won't have to watch this ugly battle of humans pressing each other, right...? *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*!" "So then what. The culprit is the 19th person, the guest Beatrice. She's a witch, so she could lock the door without a key using magic. Are you telling me to accept that? drat it...! drat it, drat it...!!" "*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*. In the last game, I learned all of your weak points. So, what will you do, what will you do...? You definitely weren't going to accept me, right? Then, you can use Kanon as a perfect sacrifice." "Kanon killed Jessica! If you support Rosa's theory, everything is settled here, right? Kanon is already dead. There should be no need to show concern for the dead. And, you won't have to doubt anyone here! *cackle*hahahahahahahahahahaha!" "drat it!! I won't accept you!!! But, Kanon-kun being the culprit... that's impossible!!" "D, Doctor Nanjo... What do you mean by that...?" "...Umm, please do not misunderstand. I do not wish to label Kanon-san as the culprit. However, until we understand the situation, there is the possibility that Kanon-san is the culprit, and I believe thinking that way is safer." "Ho, hoh-hoh-ho... Yes, that's right... you cannot be too cautious."It didn't seem as though anyone blamed Nanjo. In reality, no one thought that Kanon was the culprit. But if they did not suspect him, they would have to suspect one of the servants here. We didn't want to do that. We didn't want to suspect. We didn't want to be suspected. "That is correct. We cannot be too vigilant. Is there anyone who objects to that?" "Listen. There is a very high likelihood that this murder case is related to Father's Legend of the Gold. In that case, it's certainly the crime of someone plotting to keep a vast amount of gold worth several ten billion yen all for themselves. With that amount of money, you could play around for the rest of your life in any country. It may be possible that they would massacre us for this reason." "..." "Because she wasn't holding a master key, the 19th person, the guest Beatrice, is removed from suspicion only for the murder of Jessica-chan. But we cannot say that she is unrelated to the crime. After all, it's a vast amount of gold we're talking about. We can't deny the possibility that there are multiple culprits. Right now, one of the people here among us might have been bought by the culprit!!" ...Don't believe anyone, suspect the person next to you... that's what she was saying. But no one wanted to suspect. They didn't want to suspect anyone here. That weakness in their hearts demanded an answer from those not here... "There are only two ways you can be sure someone isn't a suspect. If it's yourself, or if they're already no more than a corpse. The same goes for Kanon-kun." "Until we catch sight of his corpse, he is the most likely suspect in Jessica-chan's murder!! So take care. Even if he's still alive, even if he smoothes things over with some explanation, you definitely must not trust him! Alright?!"No one gave a answer of their own initiative. However, those who met Aunt Rosa's eyes had to nod their heads... Humans are beings who live by molding themselves to fit society. In other words, from the time they are born, trusting each other is genetically imprinted on them. It is, unpleasant to go against that. They definitely don't want to suspect someone. But if they had to suspect someone... they thought that choosing one of the people not here right now would be the safest. For just the reason of safety, they half-heartedly chose Kanon to be the sacrifice.  BGM: Moon I'd heard it from George-aniki just now, but not only were those two close in age, they also had that adolescent relationship Aunt Rosa had mentioned. It may be a little late now, but yes, they really did have that kind of air about them. After seeing her parent's tragic corpses, Jessica, bearing deep wounds in her heart, would only have trusted Kanon-kun. ...That was a very conceivable story. So I don't like it...!! Kanon-kun was the only one she trusted. So she wouldn't have let anyone but Kanon-kun in. So, this argument saying Kanon-kun was the only one who could have killed Jessica... I just couldn't accept it...!!!  Aunt Rosa made that claim. By using the vague word 'suppose', in the end, she encouraged everyone. Everyone nodded weakly, and, under the temporary excuse that they were just supposing it, they 'claimed' that Kanon was the culprit who had killed Jessica... ...I wonder what the dead Jessica and Kanon would think if they could hear this exchange.  It was frustrating. So frustrating that it felt like her chest would explode... She grieved and resented how far the dignity of the dead had been trampled...  "...Those guys... why are they treating Kanon-kun like the culprit!!" "...Because there's... no corpse." "Why are they treating you like the culprit because there's no corpse?! You risked your life to fight for me, right...?! Then, that witch erased the corpse for fun...! After that, Kanon-kun being the culprit, it's horrible, it's too horrible!!" "...It's alright. In the end, I couldn't completely protect you, but... I was able to be of use to Milady..." "...Why doesn't everyone understand that?! Stop it, Aunt Rosa!! Don't call Kanon-kun the culprit with that messed up reasoning!!" "...She isn't saying that I'm the culprit. She's just saying I'm suspicious... no, she's saying to be careful." "She is saying it!! These people are saying you're the culprit, Kanon-kun, so they can stop thinking! They aren't thinking about who the culprit who killed me is anymore!! They aren't thinking of the possibility that you aren't the culprit!! And after this, every time something happens, they'll repeat the excuse that it was the work of Kanon-kun, whose location is unknown!! I can't stand that!!" "...It's alright. At least Milady knows the truth." "If only I know the truth, that's pointless!! I know after dying. Truth belongs to living humans!! If the truth doesn't remain, the dead won't be rewarded!! They won't know why Kanon-kun risked his life!!" "Lament, lament. No matter how much you lament, the voices of the dead never reach the living." "drat it, drat iiiiiiit!!" "...Milady." "...I can't stand that!! It's sad! It's vexing!! Don't you care that Kanon-kun's dead?!! The honor of the dead must be accepted by the living! It doesn't matter who! Notice it! Notice it, I beg you!! Kanon-kun isn't the culprit!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahh, don't go, don't go, everyone!! Please, don't let it end like this...! Don't go... don't goooooooooooooo!!!"Rosa proclaimed that this room should be sealed until the police came. The rest didn't want to suspect each other, so they happily accepted that. For now, they accepted that Kanon was the culprit. Without even imagining how much disgrace that gave to the dead, they accepted it. "...Milady... it's alright now... Thank you..." "Don't go!! Don't go everyone!! For heaven's sake, come back!! Don't leave us like this!! Don't leave us, still treating Kanon-kun... as the culpriiiiiiiit!! Uwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh...!!" "It won't reach!! The laments of the dead never reach!" "You make me laugh, yes, that face of yours makes me laugh!! Did you think your voice would reach? It won't reach, will it, Jessicaaaaaaa??? *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*, wahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!" BGM: Dread of the Grave "Huh? Battler-kun, did you say something?" "Yeah, this is no good. It's no goddamn good at all."At the time everyone made to leave the room... Only Battler had his back to them, and he was still looking down at Jessica's corpse. "What do you mean, it's no good at all? Do you have some objection...?" "I'll at least agree that we have to be vigilant. But this talk about having Kanon-kun be the culprit, sorry, but allow me to refuse." "...Honestly, I give up there. Seriously, why'd I say it's no goddamn good?" "...I don't take any responsibility for my own conduct. Ihihihihi...!" "I'm empty-handed with zero weapons to argue with. But you know, I won't hold my finger to my lips anymore!! Beatrice!!"  "...I, is there some proof that Kanon-kun isn't the culprit...?"The expression that rose to the faces of those two was definitely expectant. They didn't want to believe that Kanon was the culprit. They really believed Kanon. So this expectation was because they wanted to be made to believe him even more strongly! "Then Battler-kun, which of the other servants do you suspect? Gohda-san? Or is it Kumasawa-san?" "Quit it, Aunt Rosa. I know the person called Kumasawa baa-chan well. She'll sometimes slack off on work, but she'll always make things fun for people. Even if her eyes were dazzled by money, she is not a person who would kill." "B, Battler-sama..." "And I've just met Gohda-san yesterday. Honestly, I still don't really understand him. But there is something I understand." "...I, I..." "...I've never seen someone who can make food that looks so fun. You're the same. The same as Kumasawa baa-chan. Gohda-san likes to make people happy." "As if a person like that could kill those that praised his own food as delicious... even if money was piled up in front of him!!" "...Then, who do you think killed Jessica-chan, Battler-kun? Who do you think shut Jessica up in a room that could only be locked by a master key?" "Wait. Before I argue about that, there's something I want to make clear. I don't want to talk about, if so-and-so is not the culprit, then so-and-so is the culprit. I just want to talk about how it's completely impossible for Kanon-kun to be the culprit." "It's actually simple. It's something I dangerously overlooked. Beato!"  "...Hoh...!" "Just now, I heard what Gohda-san said. Just before he split up with Kanon-kun. The part about when Jessica went to raid the honored guest room." "...Gohda-san, you did a good job remembering it. You protected Kanon's honor." "...I, I... did...?!" "I heard him say the same thing. But I don't really understand! Could you explain it, Battler-kun?!"  "*cackle*cackle*! Is that really so? Certainly, Gohda has no recollection of the master key being returned to Kanon. However, she might have returned it when Gohda wasn't looking! How does that prove that it definitely didn't happen?! *cackle*cackle*cackle*, if you could just search the pocket of Kanon's corpse, you could establish that, but you can't!! It is impossible to prove!!" "You're no goddamn good at all. Isn't it actually simple?" "Yeah. And to prove it, all you have to do is search Jessica. Kanon-kun's master key should be in Jessica's pocket. Doctor Nanjo, would you check for us?" "H... hmm."Nanjo dashed up to Jessica, and searched in her jacket pocket... Everyone was expectant...! "...Mu..."...Please. Be there...!! "...Here it is! Is this it?" At Genji's statement, there was a small 'oooh' of joyful voices. "That is Kanon-kun's master key. I'll say it again." "'Kanon-kun isn't holding a master key'. Therefore, there's no way he could have locked the door!!" "...It certainly does... appear that way. But Kanon-kun was the last person to meet Jessica-chan. The fact that he's suspicious hasn't changed." "Let's give it a rest, enough doing that." "...Huh?" "Normally, humans are supposedly creatures that trust each other. But because we live in a tough world, we learn the depths of doubt. So we'll doubt anything. We are sad creatures. I won't deny that's our nature." "But if you're going to say someone's guilty, prepare some perfect evidence! As long as you can't do that, definitely don't say someone is guilty because of speculation!!!" "...u... That is..." "...I was the one who said the suspicious were guilty. That was careless. I apologize." "...Battler-sama..." "...W, wonderful reasoning, Battler-kun! Thank you too, Gohda-san. Because of what you remembered, Kanon-kun is cleared from suspicion!" "N, no I... hahahaha..." BGM: Golden Sneer "Well done, well done. Not a bad job." "...poo poo. Was I fooled by that bait piece just like you wanted...?" "You wonderfully proved that at least Kanon couldn't lock the door to this room. The servants should all have been holding master keys. With that as proof, Kanon was treated as the culprit, so at least you wonderfully cleared away that suspicion. *cackle*cackle*cackle*." "...In that case. How did the culprit who killed Jessica lock the door? So that's the problem that we have now. Sheesh. I've been drawn into a development that went exactly like you wanted..." "Right into my trap, yes...? Furthermore, you said something outrageous about not doubting any of the other servants. Well then, it'll be worth seeing how you gloss this over..." "Shut up. Let's start right away. I'll probably deny it as best I can, but first let's check the definition of this room as a closed room." "It is on the second floor, but it is probably possible to enter or leave through the window. However, the window is locked from the inside." "...Let me suddenly turn the chessboard over. If I start by arguing about the door and the lock, I probably won't leave the palm of your hand." "Do as you like. Well then, well then, what should I repeat?" "...Repetition requested. 'Kanon-kun was killed in this room'." "Again, repetition requested. 'Kanon-kun's corpse is in this room'." "*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*! I refuse. I can't repeat it. Because I erased the corpse with magic. *giggle*giggle*giggle*!" "So you won't say that. There's got to be a secret hidden in there somewhere." "...drat, where's the mysterious point in question? Did they lock it without the master key? Or did they somehow kill those two when they were inside the room and it was locked? Or did they kill those two, and then somehow escape?" "...I hate to say it, but I'll have to tackle this one step at a time... Repetition requested. ...'The last time it was locked was due to the master key'." "I also refuse that. *cackle*cackle*." "...This refusing thing is really vague. I don't know if you refuse because it's impossible to repeat, or whether you can repeat it and you're refusing on purpose..." "Back when discussing the lock to the chapel, you completely turned the tables on me. When I have an advantage, there's no need to go out of my way to use red and say things in a risky way. That's all it is." "...That's right. Originally, you used the red when you wanted to stop my strange theories." "It is natural that I would use it to my advantage. Because of the risk of it being quibbled with, I won't use it uselessly." "*cackle*cackle*. Well then, what move will come next? A move that puts Gohda or Kumasawa under suspicion would probably be the easiest to use, right...?" "...drat. It's annoying being provoked... Stay quiet a while, I'm thinking...!" "I'll say more. No trick could have the effect of locking the door from the outside without using a key. *cackle*cackle*!" "Sheesh. drat you for always using red when I don't ask for it..." First, there are two victims. Jessica and Kanon-kun. Kanon-kun's corpse isn't here, but Beatrice admitted in red that Kanon-kun was killed. So even without a corpse, he is included as a victim. There are a few questionable points. And depending on which I focus on, my line of thought changes a lot.  If we assume that the culprit was one of those holding a master key, it's extremely simple... But I want to avoid that if I can. Because I would have to suspect Gohda-san or Kumasawa-san... no, in the worst case, even Shannon-chan and Genji-san. Here, I noticed something. I was contradicting myself. I was restricting my own path.  Because of that, I had to explain everything with humans, not magic. But that also meant suspecting some human. I don't want to suspect someone. Of course, if there was some clear proof, I would have to believe that person was the culprit, but, as long as that didn't happen, I didn't want to raise suspicions. Was I just green...? Was I just a kid who didn't want to have my feelings, which told me that at least this person or that person couldn't be a murderer, betrayed...? I want to deny that it was a witch, I also want to deny that it was a human. Now I don't know what is what anymore...  ...It was just as she said. If I started arguing that someone holding a master key was the culprit, this closed room could be easily broken. However, the number of keys that could open this door were limited, and furthermore, since it was clearly known who held those, saying that meant that I was suspecting someone I knew well... ...No, am I simply averting my eyes? In that closed room trick with the chapel, which had been exhilarating to destroy, I had proposed that 'someone stole the key from Maria's handbag, and returned it'. If that theory was right, then the question becomes who could have stolen the key from her handbag. Maria's handbag had probably been the most unguarded when she was sleeping.  George-aniki or Jessica was the culprit? Or maybe an accomplice?! All of our parents had been killed, right?! And yet... and yet, one of us consented to that and assisted with the crime?! We had lamented, mourned, and shed tears in the chapel. And yet, one among us... had been lying?!  "And despite that, how could you act like you didn't notice, and say a theory like that so happily...! *giggle*giggle*giggle*." "D, drat it... That doesn't guarantee that one of the family or the servants is the culprit! If you snuck up on us hiding in a cardboard box, for example, there's a good chance you could have slunk into our room when we were fast asleep and stolen the key, right?!" "Hmmmmmm. That is also acceptable. By suspecting the guest, the 19th person, you won't have to suspect them." "...Then how was Jessica's room locked? It's no trouble at all for me to open the lock with magic, but of course, I don't have a master key. If you deny my magic, you also have to deny that I'm a suspect, right...?" "So, in other words, that means suspecting one of you 18 people...!!" "Y, you're so nice, thanks. I've been able to sort things out a bit. My goal is to pursue how the 19th person, the human guest Beatrice, committed the crimes. If I do that, I won't have to suspect anyone!!" "*cackle*cackle*! If you can do that? Foolish man. A room like this wasn't a closed room from the beginning. After all, there are a total of six keys that can open it." "And there were several who possessed those keys! You can suspect any of them! Suspect as much as you like!! But you went to all the trouble of denying all of those, and made a closed room yourself." "...Understand? This is a closed room born from your mental contradiction. *cackle*cackle*! There's no one else, you closed that door yourself." "...So you're trying to say that there are two options, accept that a witch opened it with magic, or accept that someone I know is the culprit. drat, are you trying to fork the rook!" "So much that I wanted to show you that this move also exists." "*cackle*. So, what will you do, Ushiromiya Battleeeeeeer? Isn't it actually simple...? Don't you just have to make sacrifices of that overly self-confident cook and that hag who wouldn't be a loss if she died? *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle* *cackle*cackle*!!" "...drat it!! If I suspect Gohda-san and Kumasawa-san, everything's fine?! It's no goddamn good! I can't think of Gohda-san as the culprit! I can't think of Kumasawa-san as the culprit!! But I won't accept you!! Definitely!!" "In that case, they would have to enter the room without using magic or a master key, kill Jessica and Kanon, and even erase Kanon's corpse without using magic." "...How could it be done?! How could it be done so that you can deny me and not suspect anyone at the same time?!! *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*!" "Huh? Battler-kun, what did you say?" "...I give up. I was able to prove that Kanon-kun couldn't have locked this door... But that doesn't mean I was able to figure out who killed Jessica." "N, no... that's more than enough... Umm, for Kanon-kun's sake, thank you very much...!" "...No need to thank me. After all, that means that Shannon-chan is also under suspicion." "..." "...And sorry, Aunt Rosa. It's not like I wanted to resist you. I just don't want to die, so I wanted to find Dad and the rest's true killer. Sorry for saying something that wasn't cooperative." "...No, it's alright. I was also a little rash. Let's make up. As an aunt and nephew, we have to be friendly with each other. Right?"Aunt Rosa shifted the gun to one hand, and held out her other hand. I reached out, and for the time being, we shook hands. Rosa's gaze was sharp. In order to deny the witch, she would make anyone a sacrifice. That's what her eyes told me. And me...? I denied the witch... But I wasn't prepared to lose anything.  
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 12:21
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The profiles page has been updated. Diagram 2-4: 
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Nov 9, 2016 12:24
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ProfessorProf posted:
Metal Gear Beato
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Nov 9, 2016 15:10
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Well, it's good to see Battler being more proactive this go-round at least, both on island and in Purgatory. But how does he prove what happened? Let's review the red statements: There are no hidden doors. The key is the only way in or out. The only way to lock the door is with either Jessica's key or a master key. the window is locked from the inside. Kanon was killed in this room. When locked, it does not permit any form of entry or exit. No trick could have the effect of locking the door from the outside without using a key. Taken all together... it has the same sort of problem as the chapel did, didn't it: not only is Beato staunchly referring to her magic junk in the red, but she's not saying either the door or the window weren't used. So if Kanon was killed in this room, what's to stop the killer from dumping his body out the window, locking the door with a master key, and then taking care of the body? As Doc Hawkins just pointed out, she avoided saying how many keys there were, or defining "servant"... or, come to think of it, whether all the servants were in possession of their own keys within the timeframe.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:02
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You misread. The red truth actually says The door is the only way in or out. This could be taken to mean that nothing comes or goes through the window. But I suppose if there were extra servants, in whatever meaning of the word, there could be extra keys, and they just waltzed out the door with Kanon's body. However, that is silly, and I've found a crucial bit of information confirming my theory: quote:
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Nov 9, 2016 17:28
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Kanon's new profile is interesting
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Nov 9, 2016 17:28
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Battler, Battler, Battler. If there is no witch, than the people you thought you knew you don't. You have to be willing to say that either a family member or a servant is the killer or else you have lost before you have begun.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:33
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So Jessica had the master key on her. Did Jessica have Jessica's key? If not, where is it? They should also check and make sure all of the servants have their keys.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:58
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Qrr posted:So Jessica had the master key on her. Did Jessica have Jessica's key? If not, where is it? Jessica's key was by the bed.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:00
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I think it's pretty clear that even if Battler doesn't want to blame one of the servants that they are probably responsible for at least this killing. Possibly Kumasawa due to her interactions with Kanon in the first go over. Being the one to find his body during an unreliable narration moment as another poster pointed out. It's also worth noting that needing to be trusted to Jessica to enter the room wasn't necessarily the case. If what they said was true and Jessica didn't usually lock the door than the door was probably unlocked and enter-able the whole time allowing servants and suspects to come and go. This means that anyone could have done the crime really, and if a passing servant had locked the door in order to support Beatrice or by accident, like Ghoda wanting to protect Kanon or Jessica assuming they were asleep or something but now is unwilling to fess up in light of their deaths because he doesn't want suspicion to rest on his shoulders. The same could also apply to Kumasawa who seems to frequently walk around the house eavesdropping on people. Presumably she's aware of Jessica's feelings for Kanon and wanted to sneak onto something scandalous, upon finding silence she assumed Jessica had cried herself to sleep and locked the door? Maybe. Judging from Battler's attitude it doesn't look like we'll get a satisfactory answer to this room until the end.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:24
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The identity of the killer is obvious now- multiple kills committed by a trusted aide? The culprit is Yasu! I think this might even be a timely reference, when was the Portopia Serial Murder Case released?grandalt posted:Battler, Battler, Battler. If there is no witch, than the people you thought you knew you don't. You have to be willing to say that either a family member or a servant is the killer or else you have lost before you have begun. Actually Beatrice herself provided a workaround for that- human(?)Beatrice is a nineteenth guest this time around, so Battler's trying to pin this on her.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:22
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kvx687 posted:The identity of the killer is obvious now- multiple kills committed by a trusted aide? The culprit is Yasu! I think this might even be a timely reference, when was the Portopia Serial Murder Case released? I have heard of the portopia serial murder case (Old game I believe) though I know nothing about it. Who is Yasu? Edit: Looked it up. Yasu is your assistant in that game. Also just noticed that this new translation you are using got rid of Battler's It's Useless, it's all Useless. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 00:39
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grandalt posted:Battler, Battler, Battler. If there is no witch, than the people you thought you knew you don't. You have to be willing to say that either a family member or a servant is the killer or else you have lost before you have begun. To be fair, Beato said that right to his face this update anyways. The initial goal of their little game was simple: Prove witches don't exist by showing that the crimes can be done via a means other than magic. Battler is actively making the game harder on himself by adding other conditions - chief among which is that he consciously refuses to use a theory involving one of the servants or relatives being the culprit. Hell, if it wasn't for Beato "kindly" including a human Beatrice for Battler to try and blame, she could have had someone turn up murdered in the middle of the garden with a pair of gardening shears, no closed room remotely nearby, and Battler still wouldn't be able to prove it wasn't done with magic, given the extra conditions he's adding on.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:I have heard of the portopia serial murder case (Old game I believe) though I know nothing about it. Who is Yasu? I also lament the lack of "Say it in red!"
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Nov 10, 2016 04:04
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I also thought Prof was using the translation from the steam release which has It's Useless, It's all Useless.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:21
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I'm using the steam translation, but editing bits of it for localization consistency with the screenshots and videos. So, catchphrases and whatnot are altered to be the same as the Umineko Project release. This could all be sorted once and for all if I could figure out how to extract text straight from the version of the game I'm actually doing, but no luck on that so far.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:33
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| # ? May 11, 2024 05:47 |
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Ah that makes sense.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:31
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