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Calling it now: pm selfie proposes stricter immigrant screening for Muslims. Fuerdai still get a pass though because small business.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:34
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It's hard to imagine the Libs following through on their environmental policy if America is no longer going to stick to the Paris climate accords.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:37
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DariusLikewise posted:If I'm the NDP I would push up the date for a new leader to be named and I would start hammering on Trudeau missing the mark on big promises now and start energizing disadvantaged working class people before the Conservatives do. Secondly I would double down on getting competent people in leadership of provincial parties and start turning the tide of every new Premier being right leaning, but lol NDP. This is good but won't happen because the NDP is going to split itself between economic centrism, neo-left infighting and self alienation they will be just as ineffective in 2019 as they were in 2015. That combined with Trudeau turning his back on moving away from FPTP is going to keep the NDP stuck in third place for another decade at least.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:39
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DariusLikewise posted:If I'm the NDP I would push up the date for a new leader to be named and I would start hammering on Trudeau missing the mark on big promises now and start energizing disadvantaged working class people before the Conservatives do. Secondly I would double down on getting competent people in leadership of provincial parties and start turning the tide of every new Premier being right leaning, but lol NDP. It's more than that though. What a new NDP leader really needs to do is take the party in a bold direction away from Mulcair's centrism, and lay out a full-fledged left wing alternative to neoliberalism. We're seeing a global rejection of that ideology that has been coupled with xenophobia and nativism by right-wing populists who are racking up win after win, because the left wing has gone all-in on third way centrism. The NDP needs to actually formulate and disseminate a coherent left-wing ideology combining anti-neoliberal populist economics with tolerance and social justice, in an effort to build a broad coalition of both the disaffected working class and the millennial social liberal crowd--what Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn are/were trying to do. And they need to do it now, not after the next crash, because sowing the seeds of this ideology in good times is far more important and would be far more effective than waiting until after the next crash, when people are looking for someone to blame and immigrants are an easy target. But they have three years to do this in, and that's after fighting a long leadership campaign, and with very little resources to do it since they're no longer the official opposition and they don't have a lot of money. As I say, it's an impossible task but I don't think there are any leadership candidates who would actually even begin to attempt such a task anyway so it doesn't matter. We're headed for a very scary showdown between promise-breaker centrist neoliberal Trudeau and a Trumpist CPC in 2019 with the NDP an irrelevant footnote, and I wouldn't place any bets on who wins that.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:43
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namaste faggots posted:We can stop this by killing every rural. I'm volunteering. One of the last things my rural grandma told me before she passed away a few months ago was how afraid she was of Trump and the crazed hate he espoused. If there's one upside to her passing it's that she doesn't have to live in a world where he's president. 
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Nov 9, 2016 16:44
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namaste faggots posted:Calling it now: pm selfie proposes stricter immigrant screening for Muslims. Fuerdai still get a pass though because small business. It doesn't matter, the ones with money will simply they will sneak through the Quebec back door anyways
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Nov 9, 2016 16:45
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namaste faggots posted:Calling it now: pm selfie proposes stricter immigrant screening for Muslims. Fuerdai still get a pass though because small business. He already did no straight single males for refugees. I don't get the huge divide between that and Kellie Leitch.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:46
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Postess with the Mostest posted:He already did no straight single males for refugees. I don't get the huge divide between that and Kellie Leitch. We're Canadians, our claim to fame is being better than Americans despite sharing the same opinions most of the time.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:59
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vyelkin posted:It's more than that though. What a new NDP leader really needs to do is take the party in a bold direction away from Mulcair's centrism, and lay out a full-fledged left wing alternative to neoliberalism. We're seeing a global rejection of that ideology that has been coupled with xenophobia and nativism by right-wing populists who are racking up win after win, because the left wing has gone all-in on third way centrism. The NDP needs to actually formulate and disseminate a coherent left-wing ideology combining anti-neoliberal populist economics with tolerance and social justice, in an effort to build a broad coalition of both the disaffected working class and the millennial social liberal crowd--what Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn are/were trying to do. And they need to do it now, not after the next crash, because sowing the seeds of this ideology in good times is far more important and would be far more effective than waiting until after the next crash, when people are looking for someone to blame and immigrants are an easy target. I wouldn't even worry too much about the platform, you could just take the best parts of a Sanders platform page by page and run with it up here, but you are right 3 years is a short period of time to turn this ship around. I think that's why it's important not to drag this out any longer and just get someone in place to start the campaign yesterday. Take a page from the extreme right-wing playbook and get people angry at the neoliberal establish and pose yourself as the alternative before the CPC. I don't people honestly care what they are voting for as long as its not another established entrenched candidate.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:15
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Lobok posted:How soon until Russia takes the Arctic from us? Re-nationalize the IP the Cons gave SNC-Lavalin, start building nuclear warheads and firing test missiles into the Arctic Ocean. Seems to work for North Korea. namaste faggots posted:We can stop this by killing every rural. I'm volunteering. And where are you going to get the guns, motherfucker?  Or are you planning on just zerg rushing us?OTOH, there's still my drug-addled heavy-equipment-operating Alberta-refugee neighbours. Maybe we can work something out here... RBC posted:we already had our trump, robert b ford. thank god hes dead and cant run for pm There's still Doug. No way we're out the Ford woods yet.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:23
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Hexigrammus posted:And where are you going to get the guns, motherfucker? Opium Wars: Part 2
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Nov 9, 2016 17:31
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DariusLikewise posted:I wouldn't even worry too much about the platform, you could just take the best parts of a Sanders platform page by page and run with it up here, but you are right 3 years is a short period of time to turn this ship around. I think that's why it's important not to drag this out any longer and just get someone in place to start the campaign yesterday. Take a page from the extreme right-wing playbook and get people angry at the neoliberal establish and pose yourself as the alternative before the CPC. I don't people honestly care what they are voting for as long as its not another established entrenched candidate. It's not about a platform, if people cared about platforms than 7 million Democrats wouldn't have stayed home yesterday. People care about building an ideology and a movement, and following a leader who can enunciate each individual person's role in that movement and how that ideology would improve their lives. The details don't matter. No one is going to vote for any candidate because they stand up there and say "I disagree with Trudeau's tax plan because I think it should be 4.5% instead of 2.9%", they vote for ideas like "take back our country" or "get government out of our lives" or "take the bankers' wealth", and each of those ideas is tied to a set of policy proposals on immigration, tax and service cuts, redistribution, etc., but very few people actually look into the details of the policies. It's much more about the fundamental ideas underlying them that motivate something visceral within. I don't think the NDP are capable of building a real left-wing alternative even if they just plagiarize Sanders' platform word for word. It's more about skill at campaigning, skill at distilling your policy platform into a cogent set of ideas that people can understand and that appeal to them, skill at mobilizing and exciting people, skill at making them enthusiastic to vote for you because, right or wrong, they think you're offering them a real, tangible way to improve their lives and/or get back at the politicians who have wronged them. Ironically, it's exactly the kind of thing Trudeau did last time around and Layton did in 2011. The specifics of their policy platforms didn't matter, no one cared that Layton was a centrist and Trudeau's policies were bad, they cared that they felt like they were involved in a big, real movement that could change the world in their favour.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:34
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Deer season now too, we're all armed and highly visible.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:34
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vyelkin posted:It's not about a platform, if people cared about platforms than 7 million Democrats wouldn't have stayed home yesterday. It's about charisma, for better or for worse. Layton had it, Trudeau had it. Trump had it.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:42
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Helsing posted:If you thought my effort posts about the need for left-populism sounded shrill before boy howdy just wait CanPol. We're gonna hit levels of shrillness you didn't dream were possible. Hillary shrill? If so, you might want to dial it back a bit. Nobody wants to hear a seagull shriek at them for four years straight.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:50
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vyelkin posted:It's not about a platform, if people cared about platforms than 7 million Democrats wouldn't have stayed home yesterday. I will be in the cold, cold ground before a major party in this country campaigns on free child care and free post-secondary.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:53
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vyelkin posted:It's not about a platform, if people cared about platforms than 7 million Democrats wouldn't have stayed home yesterday. Mainstream hacks even have a phrase that embodies this, "Facts tell, stories sell". You're right though, the NDP as it exists right now is structurally incapable of following the route Sanders' followed. The initial movement has to come from outside the electoral system and then grow strong enough to make its demands heard.
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Nov 9, 2016 17:53
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Helsing posted:Mainstream hacks even have a phrase that embodies this, "Facts tell, stories sell". I agree with this completely. Any success the US left had in building a movement was not forged by a politician or a political party, it was built by politicians trying to harness the success and visibility of existing organic movements like Occupy, the Fight for 15, and Black Lives Matter. In Canada we had Idle No More, but it turned out that nobody cared about First Nations issues. Now we've got....?
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Nov 9, 2016 17:59
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Helsing posted:If you thought my effort posts about the need for left-populism sounded shrill before boy howdy just wait CanPol. We're gonna hit levels of shrillness you didn't dream were possible. in practice, "populism" just means andrea horwath with a competent execution.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:03
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Patrick Brown and Kellie Leitch both just got to witness how to win their respective races and I wouldnt be surprised if they took notes or even just flat out copy entire sections of the Trump campaign. Canadians are just as dumb as Americans and we will fall for it here and you are all naive or stupid if you think otherwise.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:09
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Pinterest Mom posted:in practice, "populism" just means andrea horwath with a competent execution. I'm honestly curious what exactly you mean when you say this, could you go into more detail?
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Nov 9, 2016 18:11
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Helsing posted:I'm honestly curious what exactly you mean when you say this, could you go into more detail? Surely you remember Trump's dramatic call for a total and complete shutdown of ATM fees entering the United States
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Nov 9, 2016 18:13
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vyelkin posted:In Canada we had Idle No More, but it turned out that nobody cared about First Nations issues. Now we've got....? An economy powered by short-term jobs in construction and retail?
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Nov 9, 2016 18:19
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Yeah pretty much. Too bad he won't keep those promises. Which is hilarious given that he doesn't have the same kind of legislative resistance Obama had after 2010 (and arguably before then). Helsing posted:Mainstream hacks even have a phrase that embodies this, "Facts tell, stories sell". There is, theoretically, a NDP leadership candidate who could try for a Sanders approach, but the campaign to get him on board is little on the nose. It's one thing to riff off of Corbyn and Sanders, it's another to invoke them directly. Maybe that's what it takes though, I don't know. And I don't know if he'd even run. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 18:38
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Pinterest Mom posted:in practice, "populism" just means andrea horwath with a competent execution. I always assumed we'd use a very competent executioner.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:41
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Its literally going to take another great depression to unfuck
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Nov 9, 2016 18:42
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Helsing posted:I'm honestly curious what exactly you mean when you say this, could you go into more detail? If we're thinking of an NDP strategy to bring back people who feel they've been left behind by the system, I feel like the only model we've seen, and it's been to some extent successful, for that is the ONDP's efforts to break into SW Ontario. We think of the ONDP'S 2014 campaign as a failure, probably because we're Toronto-centric elites (and, fairly, because they blew a chance to form government), but despite the campaign being a raging garbage fire and the party being so institutionally incompetent they started writing the platform on the day the writ dropped (30 months into a minority parliament!), the message they ran on, and Horwath herself, resonated with a bunch of people who aren't the NDP's traditional constituency. The party won Oshawa for the first time in decades (at either level). Made gains in places like Essex, Niagara Falls, Kit-Wat. ONDP won a majority of seats in Southwestern Ontario, Hamilton/Niagara, and the North. The general strategy they've followed, of pocketbook issues + integrity, is a good one for the NDP, for an NDP concerned with speaking for people who feel they're out of power and outside the power centres. Andrea is a personally popular and credible messenger for that message, but they just need to step their execution game up and come up with more ambitious policies they can communicate clearer.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:47
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Furnaceface posted:Its literally going to take another great depression to unfuck Why do you feel that would "unfuck" things? Rather than, for example, literally the opposite?
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Nov 9, 2016 18:48
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Niki's going to run on a very explicit Sanders-like platform, but she suuuuuuuuucks. Peter Julian will probably be on the left of the party, but I have doubts as to how he'd sell to the population. Guy Caron is just going to be a competent, establishment, Québec candidate. I have no idea what kind of agenda Jagmeet Singh is going to put forward, but he'd be a great hopeful and optimistic and relatable person to have at the top of our ticket for a decade or so. Charlie Angus seems like he's going to focus a lot of his energy on FN issues, and he could certainly bring the populism, but no French. Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 18:51
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vyelkin posted:I agree with this completely. Any success the US left had in building a movement was not forged by a politician or a political party, it was built by politicians trying to harness the success and visibility of existing organic movements like Occupy, the Fight for 15, and Black Lives Matter. Was there a movement of collected right-wingers that found Trump as a leader or did he spew enough poo poo that he got enough people to vote for him. This combined with a whole bunch of soft Democrats being soft on Hillary and staying home is all it takes getting elected. I'm not saying that the NDP needs the next Sanders, they just need someone that can pull the same bullshit the extreme right-wing and make people angry enough to win. We don't need an absolute revolution right now, just enough to stop the right-wing from seizing power and gerrymandering everything so they are in power for the next 25 years when the planet blows up from global warming.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:52
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Maybe PM selfie's hair getting a 60% approval rating will at least delay the right wing wave sweeping the western world while he only does borderline deplorable poo poo and not the real nitty gritty concentration camp style stuff.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:55
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Let's be honest here, on the canadian scale the next Sanders is already in charge of the NDP, they just need to stop pretending to be inoffensively centrist and act like a center left party. Unless you mean this country needs marxism, I'm not sure I can disagree too much there at this point.
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Nov 9, 2016 18:56
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DariusLikewise posted:Was there a movement of collected right-wingers that found Trump as a leader or did he spew enough poo poo that he got enough people to vote for him. This combined with a whole bunch of soft Democrats being soft on Hillary and staying home is all it takes getting elected. I'm not saying that the NDP needs the next Sanders, they just need someone that can pull the same bullshit the extreme right-wing and make people angry enough to win. We don't need an absolute revolution right now, just enough to stop the right-wing from seizing power and gerrymandering everything so they are in power for the next 25 years when the planet blows up from global warming. Trump's support built on the Tea Party, which emerged shortly after Obama was elected and never went away. His success was also a case of building a political campaign on the back of a successful preexisting social movement. The surprise was not that he found success in doing so, the surprise was just how successful he was at broadening the Tea Party message beyond its core membership into what might previously have been seen as the political centre.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:05
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Powershift posted:Maybe PM selfie's hair getting a 60% approval rating will at least delay the right wing wave sweeping the western world while he only does borderline deplorable poo poo and not the real nitty gritty concentration camp style stuff. When norm-less anti-elitism comes to Canada, the Liberals aren't going to be able to stop it. In their core, in their DNA, they're the caricature of everything that movement is fighting against.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:06
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namaste faggots posted:We can stop this by killing every rural. I'm volunteering. You are the worst poster on these forums.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:11
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Pinterest Mom posted:When norm-less anti-elitism comes to Canada, the Liberals aren't going to be able to stop it. In their core, in their DNA, they're the caricature of everything that movement is fighting against. This is whats so depressing. We can see it coming but there isnt anything we can do to stop the inevitable election of our own Trump. patonthebach posted:You are the worst poster on these forums. You have clearly never been subjected to posts by MIGF.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:17
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Furnaceface posted:This is whats so depressing. We can see it coming but there isnt anything we can do to stop the inevitable election of our own Trump. Funny, judging by my Facebook feed this morning, Canada is a shining beacon of democracy in a sea of poo poo and JT is going to cuddle us and tell us its okay while leading this country through the storm for the next 50+ years.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:20
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What I'm saying is I'm terrified how stupid the populace is in this country.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:21
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If anything this has been an eye opener as to how many of my neighbours would probably happily march me over a cliff just to see me fall if they got the chance
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Nov 9, 2016 19:26
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The only way we can combat the eventual Trump Canada is if we start a news website that makes up conspiracy's and lies about the shitlords who are going to run It's obvious that truth doesn't matter at all anymore and we can say whatever we want without facing any repercussions
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Nov 9, 2016 19:42
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