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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Because of Zionism? Give me a break. Because he's a Democrat. Remember they're right first, christian second. The latter is the servant of the former. Their hatemongering doesn't have to based on anything true or meaningful. Don't be naive. /end political chat
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Nov 9, 2016 19:21
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The Phlegmatist posted:Evangelicals love the Jews. Gotta rebuild the Temple to immanentize the eschaton, don'tcha know. As a Jew I've never felt comfortable with this explanation for their support  We love y'all Jews, really! You only love us so we can be Armaggeddon fodder.It's the sort of 'friend' that encourages a recovering alcoholic to come drinking with them.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:25
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Well, it's not a good explanation, it's just the one that makes sense to them( because they're pants-on-head insane).
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Nov 9, 2016 19:29
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SirPhoebos posted:As a Jew I've never felt comfortable with this explanation for their support Yeah pre-mill dispensationalism is insane. "Let's return all the Jews to Zion, rebuild the Temple so the Lord comes to rescue us." "What happens to the Jews?" "Well let's see...they're ruled by a harsh pagan ruler for three and a half years, then they get to live in paradise for three and a half years. And then they're destroyed by the all-consuming hellfire that comes to scourge the earth, and then they're cast into the lake of fire for all eternity, because they never accepted Christ." Welp, okay.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:46
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pidan posted:Congrats HEGEL! Love your enemy doesn't preclude acknowledging that they're your enemy.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:49
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Deteriorata posted:Because he's a Democrat. Remember they're right first, christian second. The latter is the servant of the former. He was actually an independent but yeah okay, you're right. /bbcode saying i have the last word
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Nov 9, 2016 19:57
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Guys, there are topics we've historically avoided in this thread to avoid unresolvable antagonism. I think election analysis, as opposed to election grieving/joy, maybe doesn't belong in this thread? Although maybe this thread is all left-wing voters, I don't know? Listen, Donald J. Trump is now 45th President of the United States. I think some longsuffering is in our future (I voted DFL the whole way down).
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Nov 9, 2016 20:00
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Longsuffering totally is, and I am in despair today. I was more thinking of "The Democrats would have won if X", which is not a religious topic. But I'll abide by the consensus of the thread.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." i did, i was sitting in an actual locked room (pooping  ) when the feeling came over me to pray. as i sat there i had a thought about how feelings of anger and self-righteousness are not going to change the election, and they aren't going to get many people to treat their political "opponents" more nicely. im just trying to share my confused feelings with some people who often have good insights, ok 
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Nov 9, 2016 20:43
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Longsuffering totally is, and I am in despair today. I was more thinking of "The Democrats would have won if X", which is not a religious topic. But I'll abide by the consensus of the thread. Totally. I think if X is related to Christianity or electorate groups that subscribe to Christianity then it's valid for discussion in this thread. Lutha Mahtin posted:i did, i was sitting in an actual locked room (pooping Agreed on all counts. Sorry for jumpin the gun on you. As socially moderate as other posters think I am, I'm frustrated as hell too.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:50
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I spent yesterday evening tucked up in bed with my husband and daughter, each refreshing our devices, in near-total silence. Today I feel empty.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:57
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i did, i was sitting in an actual locked room (pooping Never stop Luthering.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:16
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i did, i was sitting in an actual locked room (pooping Wow you really are Martin Luther. He came up with sola fide on the shitter. In fact there's an academic publication about Luther's scatological obsession.  Here's the Devil (who is actually a woman for some reason) making GBS threads out the Papists. tag yourself I'm the baby with the papal crown suckling at Medusa's breast. e: Oh I forgot the greatest Luther quote: "I am ripe poo poo, so is the world a great wide rear end in a top hat; eventually we will part." If Luther was alive today his 95 Theses would just be pictures of goatse repeated 95 times. Dude was the protogoon. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:35
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The Phlegmatist posted:Wow you really are Martin Luther. He came up with sola fide on the shitter. In fact there's an academic publication about Luther's scatological obsession. does that article fail to take into account the entire rest of german popular culture
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Nov 9, 2016 21:46
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HEY GAL posted:does that article fail to take into account the entire rest of german popular culture Is there a lot of poop in German popular culture? I mean poop jokes, not actual poop, which I assume the quantity of per person is probably pretty universal except in desert climates.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:50
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HEY GAL posted:does that article fail to take into account the entire rest of german popular culture That was the main thrust of her thesis, so...
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Nov 9, 2016 22:01
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i did, i was sitting in an actual locked room (pooping i don't personally see people who voted trump political opponents. i see them as threats to my health, safety, and my ability to thrive within the country i was born in. really hard to see why i should treat them nicely, which is why i like that jodo shinshu morality is so contextual and personal. we are moved by amida to become one with him, but because of our karmic links that means in this life how much we become moved towards a buddha's compassion is highly personal. if being able to turn the other cheek is impossible for someone, that doesn't negate their shinjin nor does it negate their rebirth. amida moves us all but we can't all respond equally.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:03
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Mo Tzu posted:i don't personally see people who voted trump political opponents. i see them as threats to my health, safety, and my ability to thrive within the country i was born in. really hard to see why i should treat them nicely, which is why i like that jodo shinshu morality is so contextual and personal. we are moved by amida to become one with him, but because of our karmic links that means in this life how much we become moved towards a buddha's compassion is highly personal. if being able to turn the other cheek is impossible for someone, that doesn't negate their shinjin nor does it negate their rebirth. amida moves us all but we can't all respond equally. bingo
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Nov 9, 2016 22:09
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They're not all fascists, just fellow travelers
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Nov 9, 2016 22:20
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Mo Tzu posted:i don't personally see people who voted trump political opponents. i see them as threats to my health, safety, and my ability to thrive within the country i was born in. You're right, but I would argue that that's what a political opponent is. The American right wing's totalized understanding of faith, politics, and personal morality as a single arena isn't a blunder or a disease. They're right, and understanding this works to their benefit. They approach politics with a conviction that we should aspire to. I'm on board with the Christian notion of not hating other human beings and even having love for them, but sometimes loving someone means letting them know how angry and disappointed you are and, more importantly, not letting them destroy others and degrade themselves in the process. StashAugustine posted:They're not all fascists, just fellow travelers The fascists are your fellow travelers too. This is not a dichotomy. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 22:29
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a political opponent is someone who disagrees with me about whether or not putting the means of production in the hands of the workers is the right move a political opponent is someone who reads bakunin instead of takagi kenmyo a political opponent is someone who believes that americans need access to guns to defend themselves someone who thinks someone like me shouldn't be allowed to work, rent an apartment, own property, buy goods and services, and ultimately believes the world would be better off if i were dead is not a political opponent. they are a threat. and you don't deal with threats by hoping they'll go away, or wishing they'd understand your humanity. you deal with them by either avoiding them at all costs, or confronting them before they confront you. for my part, i plan on getting out as soon as possible because this country is clearly not someplace i want to be in the short term, and possibly not even the long term, but until then i will resist this government with everything i can. i usually resist the urge to take part in direct action, because i think that as a trans woman i'm in a position to be abused by police in a way that cis people aren't, but quite frankly i don't think that matters. what we do now defines who we are to our children, our children's children, and so on. if we want them to grow up in a united states that is ruled by love and compassion instead of fear and hatred, we have to act now.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:41
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also, the only good fascist continues to be a dead fascist. this is known
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Nov 9, 2016 22:42
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Mo Tzu posted:also, the only good fascist continues to be a dead fascist. this is known dothraki citation format continues to be best citation format
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Nov 9, 2016 22:43
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Mo Tzu posted:also, the only good fascist continues to be a dead fascist. this is known I was raised by fascists. Barring the urge to lie or evade the question for fear of the consequences, I would have described myself as a National Socialist until I was about 20 years old. It is obviously not who I am today. But let's not even worry about my well-being for the moment; it's honestly kind of secondary. Would you be better off if I were dead, Mo Tzu?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The fascists are your fellow travelers too. This is not a dichotomy. I think there is a distinction but agree that they're still responsible for what they did Mo Tzu posted:also, the only good fascist continues to be a dead fascist. this is known 
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Nov 9, 2016 22:58
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Congrats on the engagement HEY GAL! I'm assuming you'll finish up your thesis then move to the UK / Europe? I'm not too worried about Trump himself, what is gonna be much worse is the fact that the GOP now firmly controls both houses of Congress and the presidency so Trump is going to rubber stamp every terrible piece of legislation the GOP wants to pass. Regardless of your political beliefs there's going to be some really scary stuff that gets passed, Pence will take Bathroom Warrior federal, they'll pass a law making it legal to discriminate based on your religious beliefs. How about strict national voter ID laws or other ways to suppress voters? The filibuster and Obama's veto were the only things holding them back and now that's gone, it'll be like the Bush years all over again except probably worse. Also like the Bush administration it's going to be a spectacular failure, so one small bit of silver lining is the Republicans will have no one to blame but themselves when it all goes to poo poo. I think most non-Trump supporting Americans are still experiencing collective whiplash that we actually Brexited. I certainly was convinced Clinton would win by a significant margin because all the polls were saying that, but it turns out the polls were really wrong and nothing matters. It's going to be a rough couple decades, especially for any sort of minority group as this election has legitimized racism, xenophobia, sexism, and general bigotry. I think it's a very relevant topic to the thread because we have a lot of LGBT posters facing the reality of many of their rights getting stripped away in the name of religious freedom.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:59
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Well I think I'd be better off if a certain cheeto and his conservative beard were dead. Let's leave it at that And also that every fascist being fascist in public should have their poo poo kicked in on a regular basis because fascism is a disease, not an ideology, and it should not be allowed to spread
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Nov 9, 2016 23:01
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StashAugustine posted:I think there is a distinction but agree that they're still responsible for what they did I wouldn't even worry about their responsibility. The state of their conscience (or their soul, if you want to think about it in those terms) is up to them. I don't say "hatred is unjustified when directed towards human beings" I say it's wasted, i.e. it's pointless from a utilitarian point of view. What matters is -- protecting the people they threaten, and removing their power to threaten in the first place. In the worst case scenario this could very well mean killing fascists. My question to Mo Tzu was not completely rhetorical. It's possible that my being dead would be such a powerful warning to others that it would outweigh any good I might do in what's left of my life, or that so few fascists reform that the outliers aren't worth considering. But do it out of overflowing love for the oppressed and anger at the condition of the world, because that will lead you to better ends than doing it out of spite. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 23:05
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Nov 9, 2016 23:14
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don't try to make me take off the socialist mask and reveal I'm actually a liberal who would prefer no one die and instead awaken to compassion and work for people who are different from them like short term sure any time alt-right fuckheads gather grab masks and bats and beat them down but also try to encourage compassion in people who seem so closed off from it you'd have an easier time wringing blood from a stone
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Nov 9, 2016 23:17
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Mo Tzu posted:don't try to make me take off the socialist mask and reveal I'm actually a liberal who would prefer no one die and instead awaken to compassion and work for people who are different from them Liberals don't have a monopoly on compassion, as much as they would like to pretend they do. Mo Tzu posted:like short term sure any time alt-right fuckheads gather grab masks and bats and beat them down but also try to encourage compassion in people who seem so closed off from it you'd have an easier time wringing blood from a stone We're on the same page, I think. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 23:18
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There's a whole lot of reasons for why any given person voted the way they did. And while sure, some of the people who voted for Trump really do hold despicable views and may indeed have despicable intentions, that's not why the other 58.5 million people who voted for him voted that way. They're all people too, and a significant portion of them are also trying, desperately, to make themselves heard, not out of some mustache-twirling hatred for minorities, but because their livelihoods are vanishing and their towns are dying and they feel like they have no future and that the establishment politicians give not one single gently caress. I had a much longer post written at one point, but it was a lot of dumb  to arrive at the same conclusion- dehumanizing the political opposition isn't how things get better, it's how things get worse. We're all in this together, after all.The Phlegmatist posted:Evangelicals love the Jews. Gotta rebuild the Temple to immanentize the eschaton, don'tcha know. Seems like they only love the Jews as long as they're in Israel and shooting Muslims. It's super hosed up and all kinds of icky.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:48
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i don't disagree but i've gone from "i really should get around to updating my passport and birth certificate" to "if I don't update this before January I may not be able to update it for up to eight years" so right now I'm not looking for the silver lining in the trump voters like after i get my house in order and get a viable way out if and when poo poo gets way worse for people like me maybe then i can properly talk about clinton's failure to engage lower class voters but for now I'm scared for the future for myself, for other trans people, and especially racial and ethnic minorities who are also legitimately afraid for their safety after Tuesday. Like this victory will only embolden the racists and sexists and homophobes and transphopes etc etc who will see this and feel like this country belongs to them and most people agree with them
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Nov 9, 2016 23:58
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Mo Tzu posted:i don't disagree but i've gone from "i really should get around to updating my passport and birth certificate" to "if I don't update this before January I may not be able to update it for up to eight years" so right now I'm not looking for the silver lining in the trump voters Most people don't, although it's a close thing. Hillary won the popular vote. Democracy, in an dismally ironic twist, works.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:02
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Mo Tzu posted:Like this victory will only embolden the racists and sexists and homophobes and transphopes etc etc who will see this and feel like this country belongs to them and most people agree with them
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Nov 10, 2016 00:02
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I'm going to fix this
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Nov 10, 2016 00:15
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HEY GAL posted:already hearing some great things about trump's "victims" in quote marks, and "sexual assault" in quote marks http://time.com/4565274/crisis-support-line-donald-trump-election/ supposedly eight trans kids committed suicide following the election results too, but I haven't seen that verified by a reputable news source
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Nov 10, 2016 00:25
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It was good I was busy at my new job all day, didn't have time to think about this and get depressed. As it is, congrats on the engagement Heigal!
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Nov 10, 2016 00:49
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The Phlegmatist posted:That was the main thrust of her thesis, so...
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Nov 10, 2016 01:06
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HEY GAL posted:well i prayed to god for things to go well with this English guy i am seeing and now we agreed that we'll get married to get me out of the US so i am engaged now Goongratulations. Of course you're just jumping out of the frying-pan into the garbage fire. Smoking Crow posted:I'm going to fix this Please don't. Based on what happened to Hegel, I'm worried Orthodox prayers work on Monkey's Paw rules.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:16
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