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Fojar38 posted:Best case scenario he's a pre-TR "steward" President who mostly just makes speeches and has his cabinet do everything Do you think climate change is nbd?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:07
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steinrokkan posted:People are antagonized by the message "You are bigoted, because I say so, and I'm smarter than you. Also I'm not going to listen to what you are going to say in response, so don't even bother." The absolute truth. It happened with Brexit too. ...and as long as "liberals", "leftists" and similar people continue this way, it will happen again. The tide is turning.,
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Nov 9, 2016 20:07
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Ofc an important point to remember is that clinton's GOTV and volunteering were driven by polls. They were phone banking like crazy in Nevada because it seemed close but if you lived in PA why bother volunteering? She's a lock. We know Trump didn't have more accurate polls, but it turns out that maybe you can turn even a stronghold into a win if you actually bother to loving go there. gently caress polls go everywhere
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Nov 9, 2016 20:08
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My only remaining hope is that Trump didn't really mean a lot of the things he said during the campaign and said them because he's a conman and knew how to play the base. That it will be bad, but not nearly as bad as it could be. I've never put much stock in hope. 
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Nov 9, 2016 20:08
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Main Paineframe posted:"Evils of the uneducated"? I'm not saying "uneducated white males" because I'm trying to create some boogeyman or something, I'm saying it because the people I'm responding to are saying that uneducated white males are a uniquely important demographic whose feelings are worth more than the well-being of women, black people, Hispanic people of all kinds and origins, Muslims, Jews, LGBT people, more. And no, the reason "we" get accused of being elitist is because we believe in a truth that disagrees with their gut feelings. That's where "ivory tower academic" comes from - it's a way to dismiss science and research that goes against conservative orthodoxy by saying that those elitist college-educated scientists and researchers just don't understand how the real world works and therefore all their studies and research are wrong, except for the one or two outliers with questionable methodology which agree with the far right. In the end we were hosed by the Ken Bones.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:09
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ilkhan posted:The vast majority of people voted for him in spite of that racism, not because of it. chumbler posted:If you are okay with voting in a racist and misogynist piece of poo poo, let alone all the million other reasons he should not be voted for, you are a racist and misogynist piece of poo poo. This. It's also worth remembering out how few votes Trump actually got, let alone won by, in absolute terms. He got less votes than Romney did in 2012, and a mere 110k votes spread between three formerly blue states would have meant President-elect Clinton. There's a need for Democrats to address the concerns of white working and middle class voters, but there is not a need for them to address the concerns of Trump voters.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:08
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AMLOVINIT posted:The absolute truth. I hope you enjoy your smugness when the ocean swallows every coastal city and you have no food to eat. Edit: reality check, even if Trump isn't actually that bad he's going to appoint Republicans to every level of government. We're still hosed.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:08
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z0glin Warchief posted:This. Yep I think this is exactly it. The Democrats don't need to get Trump voters, they need the Obama voters that stayed home.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:10
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FactsAreUseless posted:By "these people" do you mean "black people?" Only in your mind but hey, continue antagonizing people by accusing them of something they clearly didn't mean; it sure seems to work.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:09
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AMLOVINIT posted:...and as long as "liberals", "leftists" and similar people continue this way, it will happen again. The tide is turning., Towards what conclusion?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:09
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AMLOVINIT posted:The absolute truth. Except unlike in Brexit, a majority of Americans voted for Clinton. This is all about the fundamental advantages to smaller rural states in the EC and the disadvantages the Democrats face from having large populous states.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:10
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Democracy was a bad choice
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Nov 9, 2016 20:11
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Tatsuta Age posted:so Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, and Chris Christie get to run the government, ok cool, mark it a Win and let's move on Full disclosure: I'm Canadian and am looking at this from the perspective of "how likely is Trump to totally ruin the world order and foster american withdrawal and decline" and as lovely as Gingrich is he's unlikely to do that as Secretary of State Y'all are still hosed domestically and you have my sympathy
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Nov 9, 2016 20:10
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Yeah Clinton didn't lose because her anti-racist messaging was offensive to white working-class people. She lost because working-class people are giving up on the Democratic Party. Jacobin explains this with solid methodology
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Nov 9, 2016 20:11
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Tatsuta Age posted:so Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, and Chris Christie get to run the government, ok cool, mark it a Win and let's move on Yeah, thinking that the contingent of lickspittles and asshats he has following him are going to do a credible job is wishful thinking. You can only hope that they gently caress up so badly and obviously that they can get removed from office before they do any real damage, but guess what? After last night I don't have a lot of faith that people are going to actually care enough.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:11
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Lightning Knight posted:He'll get a congressional waiver. I was terrified of a potential invasion of Canada by Trump. Thank you for putting that fear to rest. Also, everyone complaining about the uneducated masses need to realize they are that way literally because of the GOP. Its not an accident this happened. The less education a populace has the easier it is to manipulate and control. This election was the Republicans cashing in on decades of work put into keeping a large population in a position to be used.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:12
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Fojar38 posted:Full disclosure: I'm Canadian and am looking at this from the perspective of "how likely is Trump to totally ruin the world order and foster american withdrawal and decline" and as lovely as Gingrich is he's unlikely to do that as Secretary of State Trabisnikof posted:Do you think climate change is nbd? Or are you one of those pro-climate change Canadians?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:11
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Radish posted:Yep I think this is exactly it. The Democrats don't need to get Trump voters, they need the Obama voters that stayed home. Unfortunately, the Hillary campaign expended most of their effort on telling people why they shouldn't vote for Trump, and not why they should vote for Hillary. I think this election should show once and for all that a campaign built on spite can't get your core voters out in the numbers you need.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:12
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steinrokkan posted:People are antagonized by the message "You are bigoted, because I say so, and I'm smarter than you. Also I'm not going to listen to what you are going to say in response, so don't even bother." There was no massive turn out for Trump you ponce. No one switched sides. There was no mass rejection of social justice warriors or whatever is going on in your delusional diseased brain. He got less votes than previous republicans by a decent margin. Democrats just sat on their asses because they didn't get their precious weed wizard and are stupid/lazy as gently caress.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:12
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Lightning Knight posted:White people overwhelmingly voted Trump and are the only group to do so by majority. Trump is a fascist. White people don't suffer systemic racial discrimination. Last sentence there is correct and also why trying to sell the issue to people where the issue isn't relevant is a hard sell.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Among white rural voters, sure. That's just one of the more pernicious ways racism works in America. If a white unemployed guy from some god forsaken township votes Trump because he promised him a stable job, is he racist because he put his own economic interest as a deadbeat poor over that of some stranger in a different county.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Or are you one of those pro-climate change Canadians? No.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:14
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Schizotek posted:There was no massive turn out for Trump you ponce. No one switched sides. There was no mass rejection of social justice warriors or whatever is going on in your delusional diseased brain. He got less votes than previous republicans by a decent margin. Democrats just sat on their asses because they didn't get their precious weed wizard and are stupid/lazy as gently caress. Nice meltdown. You will notice Hillary's messaging didn't exactly work out in her favor.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:14
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Also: many people are upset because Clinton's loss means bad changes for them. That's fair and they are right to be upset but I don't think a platform of STATUS QUO has ever been particularly attractive to people not directly benefitting from preserving it.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:14
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:If you're white why wouldn't you assume your fellow white person is a hard-R? All studies point to this. Probably because I was (and probably still am) naive to a certain degree. These were the same people who were terrified of GWB after 9/11; the same people who would miss a whole day of courses recovering from a night spent watching Method Man at the Contemporary Arts Center; the same people who got (and helped pay for) abortions; the same people who would rail on about police brutality into the wee hours of morning during drunken poker games.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:13
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The Shortest Path posted:My only remaining hope is that Trump didn't really mean a lot of the things he said during the campaign and said them because he's a conman and knew how to play the base. That it will be bad, but not nearly as bad as it could be. That Feel When your best case scenario is that the president will be a venal, corrupt, gilded age buffoon
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Nov 9, 2016 20:14
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Fojar38 posted:Full disclosure: I'm Canadian and am looking at this from the perspective of "how likely is Trump to totally ruin the world order and foster american withdrawal and decline" and as lovely as Gingrich is he's unlikely to do that as Secretary of State I'm with ya actually, bud. I don't think Trump starts WW3, but I firmly believe I'll be a good bit worse off economically (and lots of people will be socially, but I'm a white male so probably not) come 2020.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:15
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AMLOVINIT posted:The absolute truth. The tide is turning straight up as our icecaps melt from all the poo poo we're pumping into the atmosphere.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:15
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Schizotek posted:There was no massive turn out for Trump you ponce. No one switched sides. There was no mass rejection of social justice warriors or whatever is going on in your delusional diseased brain. He got less votes than previous republicans by a decent margin. Democrats just sat on their asses because they didn't get their precious weed wizard and are stupid/lazy as gently caress.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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Radish posted:Yep I think this is exactly it. The Democrats don't need to get Trump voters, they need the Obama voters that stayed home. Except there's no point there, because now that Republicans run the Supreme Court, voter ID is gonna be law in p much every state with Dems, and voter suppression and intimidation will be the order of the day in every state that isn't deep red. poo poo is terrible
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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corn in the bible posted:Also: many people are upset because Clinton's loss means bad changes for them. That's fair and they are right to be upset but I don't think a platform of STATUS QUO has ever been particularly attractive to people not directly benefitting from preserving it. The status quo was "no queerbashing and better abortion rights, progressivism on the up 'n up". Now the VP wants me dead. The status quo was better.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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Schizotek posted:weed wizard But was he fighting a dragon while smoking a bong, and the dragon was lighting the weed w/ his fire breath?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yeah Clinton didn't lose because her anti-racist messaging was offensive to white working-class people. She lost because working-class people are giving up on the Democratic Party. The Democrats should have been looking at this when people were saying it years ago but they figured Obama was cool enough that they could ride his coattails while pushing stuff no one wanted and siding with bankers over regular people. Once again the GOP certainly didn't help in that regard but for instance just giving mortgage relief instead of letting the criminals that crashed the economy in charge of setting things straight was super dumb. People wanted banker blood but they probably would have been fine with it if they just got some help and the finance industry was let off the hook. Instead you had war widows getting foreclosed on like it was a Dickensian tale with a Democrat in the presidency. How are you supposed to continue supporting that as a working class person? Main Paineframe posted:Except there's no point there, because now that Republicans run the Supreme Court, voter ID is gonna be law in p much every state with Dems, and voter suppression and intimidation will be the order of the day in every state that isn't deep red. poo poo is terrible Yeah poo poo's pretty hosed but it's the state of the country now.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:15
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steinrokkan posted:If a white unemployed guy from some god forsaken township votes Trump because he promised him a stable job, is he racist because he put his own economic interest as a deadbeat poor over that of some stranger in a different county. He made a decision that even in ignorance furthers the racist power structures of America. Fojar38 posted:No. Then Trump is going to gently caress what little momentum on Climate Change we had.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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I'm not sure if it's posted, this thread is moving a little quickly, but speaking of moving, this is an extremely good twitter thread that is worth your time: I had to make it a link like this so it wouldn't just embed the first tweet Keep expanding it, there's dozens and dozens of posts in it. Hard medicine but I feel a little better for having read it.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:17
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deadly_pudding posted:This is part of it. The other part is that American public education basically doesn't cover critical thinking. I didn't have to learn about philosophy, ethics, or critical thinking until I went to college. Our education system is based on regurgitating the answer from the book in almost every area up through high school, which is still where most people stop. I think the closest we get is teachers not liking it when you source Wikipedia on your research paper. In that case we might as well go full hardcore Asian school system. Regurgitate all the facts at the tests which determine whether you pass or fail! Only rote memorization needed, anything else will be penalized! Thank god the colleges promote critical thinking, otherwise all hope would be lost. Now if only we can filter that down into the public education.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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Dick Milhous Rock! posted:Yeah, thinking that the contingent of lickspittles and asshats he has following him are going to do a credible job is wishful thinking. You can only hope that they gently caress up so badly and obviously that they can get removed from office before they do any real damage, but guess what? After last night I don't have a lot of faith that people are going to actually care enough. Yep, anyone remember Dick Cheney?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:16
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C2C - 2.0 posted:Probably because I was (and probably still am) naive to a certain degree. These were the same people who were terrified of GWB after 9/11; the same people who would miss a whole day of courses recovering from a night spent watching Method Man at the Contemporary Arts Center; the same people who got (and helped pay for) abortions; the same people who would rail on about police brutality into the wee hours of morning during drunken poker games. So they were possible to sway in one direction, they can be swayed in another, their new beliefs couldn't have sedimented that much. Once the Hillary backlash and Trump high fall off, there will be a return to a new normal, and then there will be a place for debates.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:18
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Squashing Machine posted:I think this election should show once and for all that a campaign built on spite can't get your core voters out in the numbers you need. You mean like Trump's campaign which won him the white house?
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Nov 9, 2016 20:18
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Radish posted:Yep I think this is exactly it. The Democrats don't need to get Trump voters, they need the Obama voters that stayed home. This is exactly true; I think a good question is why rust belt folks stayed home, I don't think turnout was particularly high. So the next question would be why would that impact one party disproportionately.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:17
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