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Race Realists posted:go on the /pol/ boards, or really ANY Alt-Right site (hell just go on gbs right now), and you will see what we're dealing with C'mon buddy...
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Nov 9, 2016 22:11
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Koalas March posted:No. Alright yeah there was a disconnect there
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Nov 9, 2016 22:12
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Talmonis posted:C'mon buddy... lol the use of that word in this context is hilarious and also clearly inaccurate, because they are in favour of the wall
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Nov 9, 2016 22:15
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Control Volume posted:More white people mocked white racists the entire leadup into this election and it ended in a trump victory that broke almost every polling model from how much of an upset it was, and all the personal ostracization I've seen as a third party to the conversation just leads to severing ties without a change in political stance. I've personally used mockery as more catharsis than anything and never considered it to progress anything other than my mental health. Saying its the only tool that works seems like a dubious claim when heavily increased usage of that tool didn't stop a trump victory. I really wish I had them on hand, but I definitely remember from several classes in university that yes, challenging others in a very aggressive manner does work wonders, as opposed to trying to gently start a dialogue. It can produce some immediate pushback, but ultimately does cause more self reflection and shame for the racist behaviors. Also of note, as black posters have repeatedly noted (especially as it pertained to BLM), playing nice has produced gently caress all as a result, time to get real disruptive if you want to get results on minorities being gunned down in the streets. Edit: hey cool, this thread really is a magic custom title pond! Also, KM or TB or negromancer or whoever, I don't want to overstep by speaking for black posters and whatnot, so my apologies if I've done so with this; I certainly wanted to convey that your message has been impactful for me, but if I'm doing too much of the conversating on your behalf I'll shut up. Thaddius the Large fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 22:16
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Control Volume posted:Alright yeah there was a disconnect there Also shouting down racism online isn't the same as putting poo poo on the line in real life to exclude racism. When you tell another white person that you're going to ruin their night, your night, and all your white friends' night if they choose to not own up to something racist that's a huge social signal to the entire group. And when your buddies back you up, the racist can have that dawning moment of "maybe all my friends are right and I was being racist." Now if your buddies won't back you up...well I have bad news about your buddies.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:22
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Lightning Knight posted:I like my red text. It's non-offensive and I'm happy somebody thought I'm annoying enough about progressivism they gave me a silly anime avatar. Absolutely. I planned on doing it in 10 years and "semi-retiring", as in only working freelance and doing IT infrastructure work for the Senegalese government, but poo poo, now I'm trying to push that up to literally in a year or so. Schizotek posted:I got you that before this thread as an act of love Aww! Should have left the Iron Man logo on it though. Thaddius the Large posted:I really wish I had them on hand, but I definitely remember from several classes in university that yes, challenging others in a very aggressive manner does work wonders, as opposed to trying to gently start a dialogue. It can produce some immediate pushback, but ultimately does cause more self reflection and shame for the racist behaviors. My PMs are a testament to the bolded. Plenty of people that labeled me a "bad poster" have apologized to me over the recent weeks, and have definitely engaged in self-reflection, and we've had fruitful conversations as a result.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:21
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OwlFancier posted:I... guess? Like I can entirely accept that is a thing but I have difficulty seeing that as the primary motivation of a POC voting Trump. Especially when he's been going after lots of different POC as his scapegoat. It's not, and no one is really saying that. It's a system of oppression set very deep into our culture and institutions to insure it's propagation even without blatant racists pushing it along. Ultimately both David Duke and your hypothetical lantinx are functionally supporting white supremacy, even if they have different motivations in their heads for their actions. A lot of the posters on this thread just don't have to patience to teasing that out when it's at best a minute distinction, and often leads to people just making excuses for why we shouldn't be as mean to the non-deliberate racists in our lives because they just don't know any better. And this is probably getting into white-feeling derail territory, so I'm not going to respond anymore. But I do have a question for TB, Koalas, Negromancer, and the other black posters. Do you want to have these sort of "how to I address/fix people's racism" discussions in this space?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:26
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Thaddius the Large posted:I really wish I had them on hand, but I definitely remember from several classes in university that yes, challenging others in a very aggressive manner does work wonders, as opposed to trying to gently start a dialogue. It can produce some immediate pushback, but ultimately does cause more self reflection and shame for the racist behaviors. Yeah I was thinking of the overarching, impersonal mockery that did all the alienation while driving no self reflection (because who cares what some idiot you dont know thinks of you, etc.) with my impression that mockery doesn't work. I don't think mockery is the only correct approach because not everyone reacts to mockery the same way, but varying methods of direct and hard confrontation aren't really tools I've used that I'll probably starting to.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:27
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negromancer posted:Absolutely. I planned on doing it in 10 years and "semi-retiring", as in only working freelance and doing IT infrastructure work for the Senegalese government, but poo poo, now I'm trying to push that up to literally in a year or so. I'm kinda jealous. I wish I had enough money. And somewhere to go. 
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Nov 9, 2016 22:26
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there wolf posted:But I do have a question for TB, Koalas, Negromancer, and the other black posters. Do you want to have these sort of "how to I address/fix people's racism" discussions in this space? All I know is that it sure as hell beats posters giving recommendations on how to fix racism because it almost always boils down to "you need to coddle and be friendly to the people that secretly hate you or see you as undeserving of true equality" in the hopes that they change their mind.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:29
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there wolf posted:It's not, and no one is really saying that. It's a system of oppression set very deep into our culture and institutions to insure it's propagation even without blatant racists pushing it along. Ultimately both David Duke and your hypothetical lantinx are functionally supporting white supremacy, even if they have different motivations in their heads for their actions. A lot of the posters on this thread just don't have to patience to teasing that out when it's at best a minute distinction, and often leads to people just making excuses for why we shouldn't be as mean to the non-deliberate racists in our lives because they just don't know any better. And this is probably getting into white-feeling derail territory, so I'm not going to respond anymore. Not really, because it should be loving obvious. How would one react if they, for instance, talked about how awesome kiddie porn is? That should be the reaction to racism and sexism. Lightning Knight posted:I'm kinda jealous. I wish I had enough money. And somewhere to go. Side benefit of being stationed there for close to 2 years. Made a lot of connections within the government, so I've always had an exit strategy in case white people were gonna white people again.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:33
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What are some good causes/charities to donate to?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:36
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Lemming posted:What are some good causes/charities to donate to? My one way boat back to Africa. We will try to bring as many as we can.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:36
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Lemming posted:What are some good causes/charities to donate to? My wine fund. Or the RAINN one for sexually assaulted women.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:39
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negromancer posted:My one way boat back to Africa. really though? africa? pretty much giving the alt-right what it wants
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Nov 9, 2016 22:42
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negromancer posted:Not really, because it should be loving obvious. Once upon a time I would have said it'd be easy if all expression of racism were as obvious as "hey dude, I like kiddy porn" but it's the post Trump election, so maybe it will be. At least they'll be easy to spot.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:42
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Race Realists posted:really though? africa? pretty much giving the alt-right what it wants That's because the alt-right is loving stupid and think Africa is all mud huts and AIDS. Meanwhile This is Lagos, Nigeria  This is where I'm moving back to, Dakar, Senegal 
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Nov 9, 2016 22:47
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Let me be the unhinged black person right now. Only choice left involves a rejection of US government authority. It's when, not if mass disobedience and actual violence should start. I don't want to say that. I'd love to go back to being just a soccer watching Oreo. I don't think it's happening.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:47
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Someone tweeted this out, and from my experience it is spot on. No matter how many times I try to be friendly to awful people.quote:Beware of people demanding you educate them - the do not truly wish to learn.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:50
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negromancer posted:That's because the alt-right is loving stupid and think Africa is all mud huts and AIDS. Also the alt-right is loving stupid and doesn't think it's brain drain.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:51
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negromancer posted:That's because the alt-right is loving stupid and think Africa is all mud huts and AIDS.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:53
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For some reason I was thinking that Racist Tree short story would be relevant, but it looks like the only way social progress will actually be made is if the children chop the loving tree down and use it to build something better. For reference: 
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Nov 9, 2016 23:06
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blackguy32 posted:Someone tweeted this out, and from my experience it is spot on. No matter how many times I try to be friendly to awful people. Hey this is real good
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Nov 9, 2016 23:08
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I don't know if it's just me, but the internet seems more...openly racist and hateful today. It's very depressing that it seems like more people aren't afraid of backlash for being ignorant.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:11
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negromancer posted:Side benefit of being stationed there for close to 2 years. Made a lot of connections within the government, so I've always had an exit strategy in case white people were gonna white people again. I'd say move to South Africa but the corporate world there still seems like a seething pit of racism and white supremacy (even in a majority-black country with a majority-black government), and I think it'll take longer than ten years before that's fixed. Though there is a pretty radical new generation of student activists working on the problem as we speak, so who knows.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:16
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Gaunab posted:I don't know if it's just me, but the internet seems more...openly racist and hateful today. It's very depressing that it seems like more people aren't afraid of backlash for being ignorant. Why would they be? Much like Brexit, they feel as though won the right to kick out anyone they don't like. That and the people who aren't racist and hateful are kinda just sullen and depressed about how the most powerful country in the world looks to be going straight into oblivion.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:20
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biracial bear for uncut posted:For some reason I was thinking that Racist Tree short story would be relevant, but it looks like the only way social progress will actually be made is if the children chop the loving tree down and use it to build something better. That's the one that the people whinging about DnD were incredibly angry about. I mean how dare you ostracize people just for having lovely harmful beliefs?
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Nov 9, 2016 23:26
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FactsAreUseless posted:You should rehost these on Imgur or somewhere. Other places often don't load properly if you hotlink. Fixed. xthetenth posted:That's the one that the people whinging about DnD were incredibly angry about. I mean how dare you ostracize people just for having lovely harmful beliefs? Probably because they themselves would be ostracized because they know they hold lovely beliefs.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:38
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xthetenth posted:That's the one that the people whinging about DnD were incredibly angry about. I mean how dare you ostracize people just for having lovely harmful beliefs? They really seem to think that they can change these people into something decent if we make them financially secure and give them more patience. That if we just took time to pay more attention, they'd learn to act like adults and reject their beliefs. We're all painfully aware at how well that works by now. I'm sure some can be salvaged if removed from their toxic environments, but we simply cannot cure the racism of this country by giving the rural whites even more power. They will simply not allow themselves to change.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:48
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Geostomp posted:They really seem to think that they can change these people into something decent if we make them financially secure and give them more patience. That if we just took time to pay more attention, they'd learn to act like adults and reject their beliefs. We're all painfully aware at how well that works by now. Except they forget that their grandparents were financially secure and STILL hated anyone that wasn't a white Christian male, but gently caress logic I guess.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:49
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My mom tells a story about grandmother prior to the election of LBJ. They were walking from the general direction of the polling place, and a white man pulled up in his truck and said "I bet you niggers just voted for Johnson. I should kill you where you stand". Luckily he drove off and the incident ended there, but I was a fool to believe we were better than this. I am disheartened. I am heart broken. I am terrified.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:08
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Morby posted:My mom tells a story about grandmother prior to the election of LBJ. They were walking from the general direction of the polling place, and a white man pulled up in his truck and said "I bet you niggers just voted for Johnson. I should kill you where you stand". Luckily he drove off and the incident ended there, but I was a fool to believe we were better than this. That's the America Trump voters want to bring back.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:08
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Geostomp posted:They really seem to think that they can change these people into something decent if we make them financially secure and give them more patience. That if we just took time to pay more attention, they'd learn to act like adults and reject their beliefs. We're all painfully aware at how well that works by now. They think that their hatred is economically driven, but no. It goes a bit deeper than that. These are the same people the segregated themselves from African Americans and that is far from economical reasons. It's like gentrification, white people move in, all the black people and black stuff have to move out. It can never be as simple as white and black people coexisting in the game neighborhood. I think it's also because they have no other options on what to do, so they turn to coddling as if that is going to make racists see the error of their ways by being friendly to them.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:15
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negromancer posted:That's because the alt-right is loving stupid and think Africa is all mud huts and AIDS. Do they need dog trainers? Everyone loves dogs, right?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:16
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Windhoek is pretty gorgeous, too: My nonprofit does a lot of work there. Who knows, if things really do get bad, maybe I'll have to help set up a permanent office there.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:18
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negromancer posted:That's the America Trump voters want to bring back. This.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:23
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Koalas March posted:This. My grandma worked the precincts from 6AM until 9PM. When I called her today, I could barely do anything but just cry. I hate that this type of racism is plain as day once again. She's 87. She's seen enough of it.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:23
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Morby posted:My grandma worked the precincts from 6AM until 9PM. When I called her today, I could barely do anything but just cry. I hate that this type of racism is plain as day once again. She's 87. She's seen enough of it. it might seem hollow but this is loving right. My grandma just told me a story about how one of her bosses made her her co-worker commit suicide. I can't express the pain I felt listening to (a story so hosed up that a sheltered white woman in the early 60s knew it was hosed up and tried to call the loving feds!!) tell me this racist rear end story. You can say, well John Oliver etc,told Trump about himself so clearly.. BLAAAAAAAAAAAAH but no. POC know what this was about. And we'll still know when you're trying to blame us for not saving you from your dumb loving selves. This election was about white supremacy. White supremacy won. End of story.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:34
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Geostomp posted:They really seem to think that they can change these people into something decent if we make them financially secure and give them more patience. That if we just took time to pay more attention, they'd learn to act like adults and reject their beliefs. We're all painfully aware at how well that works by now. You might be able to salvage enough to win an election which is a better position to effect actual change from than having control of none of the branches of government, however. As much as I enjoy the thought of punishing the deserving, it doesn't really do anyone much good to lose on that platform.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:34
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"Koalas March" posted:This election was about white supremacy. White supremacy won. End of story.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:37
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