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NewForumSoftware posted:lol @ the idea that everyone is "hosed" When in human history have hundreds of millions or perhaps a billion people suddenly had to migrate just to survive? When have resources, including water, suddenly become greatly restricted for much of the world? Climate change will kill at least hundreds of millions of people in the coming decades, without even considering antibiotics resistance, resource scarcity and anything else that we are unprepared to face. This would have happened without Trump, but his election will accelerate and worsen the deteriorating conditions that we will face.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:30
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red plastic cup posted:Welp, here's where it starts. We really are hosed.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:41
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Placid Marmot posted:Climate change will kill at least hundreds of millions of people in the coming decades, without even considering antibiotics resistance, resource scarcity and anything else that we are unprepared to face. This would have happened without Trump, but his election will accelerate and worsen the deteriorating conditions that we will face. Yeah I guess I just came to terms with that a long time ago. At this point we're just waiting for the apocalypse to hit.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:42
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CommieGIR posted:We really are hosed. Alarmism is now warranted.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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Placid Marmot posted:When in human history have hundreds of millions or perhaps a billion people suddenly had to migrate just to survive? When have resources, including water, suddenly become greatly restricted for much of the world? i dont think it will make that much of a difference
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Nov 9, 2016 21:15
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red plastic cup posted:Welp, here's where it starts. Living up to his promise to appoint the worst possible people to each position, like our angry white overlords demand. That's "greatness," apparently. I hate everyone and everything.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:22
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Mozi posted:
Atleast we have time for science to figure out something less hosed than the current options.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:43
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Elon Musk's martian colony project does not count 
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Nov 9, 2016 21:44
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Stairmaster posted:Atleast we have time for science to figure out something less hosed than the current options. Yeah except...well I have some news about science funding...are you sitting down? It is hosed in the US.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:44
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Uranium Phoenix posted:The same thing we needed to do if Hillary was elected. Build a coalition mass movement, win local elections, and pressure elected officials to act. The difference is Hillary would have given more lip service to the threat of climate change and probably would have done a bit more to support small (effectively meaningless) changes in energy policy, but remember she would also have been hamstrung by a congressional blockade. Under Trump, the US energy policy will be more of the status quo. Oil and gas production will increase, but production was already expanding before this election. Yeah, it's pretty much all of this. It's time for widespread movements in pretty much every direction there is, and this is just one of them.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:49
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If Trump withdraws from the Paris treaty there is no amount of organization or movement-tizing that will make up for that. Period.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:59
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My understanding of policy is that it is one of the greatest reasons we have been pushing natural gas over coal for grid generation. Is that the right read, or an I missing something? Also what's the over / under on a Trump Power utilities brand? I'm giving....1 chance in 5 despite flagrant conflict of interest issues. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 9, 2016 |
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Nov 9, 2016 21:59
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Welp. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/ Just realized this is old news, hadn't seen this before. This is terrifying as hell though.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:23
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Mr.Citrus posted:Welp. Science is dead. Belief is the new hotness. Hope you can pray those temperatures down. 
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Nov 9, 2016 22:35
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The temperature of the great lakes is actually increasing in November. Its gonna snow a lot.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:40
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squirrelzipper posted:Science is dead. Belief is the new hotness. Hope you can pray those temperatures down. Post factual society, just like the Republicans demanded.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:59
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Uncle Jam posted:The temperature of the great lakes is actually increasing in November. Remember, more snow means it's secretly cooling.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:53
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What's the science behind a warm lake equal more snow? I don't understand that.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:58
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Hollismason posted:What's the science behind a warm lake equal more snow? I don't understand that. I assume higher temperature means more evaporation of the water and it's still cold enough that it snows instead of rains.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:58
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Potato Salad posted:Alarmism is now warranted. fianlly
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Nov 10, 2016 01:36
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Hollismason posted:What's the science behind a warm lake equal more snow? I don't understand that. http://scijinks.jpl.nasa.gov/lake-snow/
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Nov 10, 2016 01:52
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Like Israel hunted down Nazi's well after the war, any chance of some climate change justice squad to go around and disappear all the worst politicians and business people and marketers and think tank staff that willfully caused the greatest harm? These people need to be brought up on crimes against humanity charges, or just straight up disappeared. Even after it's far too late to save the earth, a little justice before we go out.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:21
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Baronjutter posted:Like Israel hunted down Nazi's well after the war, any chance of some climate change justice squad to go around and disappear all the worst politicians and business people and marketers and think tank staff that willfully caused the greatest harm? These people need to be brought up on crimes against humanity charges, or just straight up disappeared. Even after it's far too late to save the earth, a little justice before we go out. Some sort of...Earth...Liberation...Front maybe?
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Nov 10, 2016 02:23
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Baronjutter posted:Like Israel hunted down Nazi's well after the war, any chance of some climate change justice squad to go around and disappear all the worst politicians and business people and marketers and think tank staff that willfully caused the greatest harm? These people need to be brought up on crimes against humanity charges, or just straight up disappeared. Even after it's far too late to save the earth, a little justice before we go out. People are too busy bickering on the internet and playing with their toys to start killing the rich and powerful en-masse, we've been over this before.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:34
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Rime posted:People are too busy bickering on the internet and playing with their toys to start killing the rich and powerful en-masse, we've been over this before. Until the social order completely breaks down, don't expect any large scale revolt. We're just to comfortable to do so. With Trump in the White House, full chaos shouldn't take too long to come, albeit mostly thanks to all their "brave militiamen" he'll support.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:42
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Baronjutter posted:Like Israel hunted down Nazi's well after the war, any chance of some climate change justice squad to go around and disappear all the worst politicians and business people and marketers and think tank staff that willfully caused the greatest harm? These people need to be brought up on crimes against humanity charges, or just straight up disappeared. Even after it's far too late to save the earth, a little justice before we go out. No, because your analogy is all kinds of wrong. This would be like if Jewish commandoes were assassinating Nazi field commanders on the Eastern Front. Mopping up a few random villains after the war is won is not the phase we're in, and taking out a few bad actors would just make the government COINTELPRO the entire climate change community.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:43
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This is an odd tangent.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:53
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Mozi posted:This is an odd tangent. Personally I find it amusing that whenever climate change comes up in the topic of federal politics the best most poster can do is contemplate suicide. Like how many more years are you going to pray for things to change? DC is not going to save you
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Nov 10, 2016 03:18
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Mozi posted:This is an odd tangent. No it's not. The Earth Liberation Front came out of the same sense of frustration. It just doesn't work. Terrorism, like peaceful nonviolence, needs a strong supporting community to shield and supply it. There is no such thing for people trying radical responses to protecting the climate/environment.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:57
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Trabisnikof posted:Yeah except...well I have some news about science funding...are you sitting down? One of the things that always gets overlooked when talking about large scale geoengineering is that it's an absolute nightmare in terms of international politics. What nation has the right to start pushing policy whose sole purpose is to alter the entire planet's climate? I can legitimately see this being an issue that wars will be fought over, especially if the potential side effects of the technology being used aren't clear. The rest of the world won't just shrug it off if we announce that we're going to dump massive amounts of SO2 into the atmosphere or begin a worldwide program of ocean iron fertilization. I also suspect that energy generation and emissions policies will become a real point of international contention sooner rather than later. There's going to be a point where nations that are actively pursuing mitigation strategies realize that they're being hosed by people like us who refuse to acknowledge the damage that we're causing to the climate.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:25
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Okay so what happens if we actually increase our emissions , because we gut EPA / Carbon Tax programs, will China and other countries also follow suit. If this happens and we actually not only not cut emissions but increase them how hosed are we.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:41
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Why would China increase its emissions just because of Trump? It's not going to make or break economic dominance of USA over China or vice versa, and China is already milking the rewards and soft power benefits of being able to claim some moral high ground over the US threatening to abandon all its international agreements. Alternatively, hope is a lie and we are all doomed
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Nov 10, 2016 05:48
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:Why would China increase its emissions just because of Trump? It's not going to make or break economic dominance of USA over China or vice versa, and China is already milking the rewards and soft power benefits of being able to claim some moral high ground over the US threatening to abandon all its international agreements. Because if the US isn't going to hold to the Paris Accord they'll be thinking " Well we can't let them possibly get a economic advantage".
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Nov 10, 2016 05:52
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Hollismason posted:Because if the US isn't going to hold to the Paris Accord they'll be thinking " Well we can't let them possibly get a economic advantage". If China thought reducing emissions would severely damage their economy they wouldn't have signed up to the agreements at all. Now they can continue what they (hopefully) believed was the correct long term decision while also being  about they have surpassed the Americans as a world leader in the field.... right? 
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Nov 10, 2016 05:56
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:Why would China increase its emissions just because of Trump? It's not going to make or break economic dominance of USA over China or vice versa, and China is already milking the rewards and soft power benefits of being able to claim some moral high ground over the US threatening to abandon all its international agreements. I have no idea what China will do, but if we drop out of the Paris Agreement then it's almost a guarantee that international progress on climate change stops until there's a major shift in US politics. Like it or not, the US really needs to take up a leadership role on this issue and electing Trump means that we're effectively rejecting that responsibility. We've lost the ability to hold other nation's feet to the fire, so China and other countries will probably back out the instant that climate action stops making economic sense.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:18
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Paradoxish posted:I have no idea what China will do, but if we drop out of the Paris Agreement then it's almost a guarantee that international progress on climate change stops until there's a major shift in US politics. Like it or not, the US really needs to take up a leadership role on this issue and electing Trump means that we're effectively rejecting that responsibility. We've lost the ability to hold other nation's feet to the fire, so China and other countries will probably back out the instant that climate action stops making economic sense. That or they use this as a chance to forever cripple the US by excluding us from their climate mitigating markets. If China and the EU saw this as a chance to shut out US manufacturers, that could be a best case.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:23
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:If China thought reducing emissions would severely damage their economy they wouldn't have signed up to the agreements at all. Now they can continue what they (hopefully) believed was the correct long term decision while also being tbh I think you are right about this. I suspect the PRC can see the writing on the wall. They literally have nothing to lose by combating climate change and investing in mitigation/green energy. It will help to quell the murmurs of discontent over the environment domestically and paints them in a very positive light on the international stage. They also have done a lot of development work/major investments in African countries (many of which will be hit hard by climate change) and I'm sure they'll want to keep up the good will as they push development (read: influence) there.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:24
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sitchensis posted:tbh I think you are right about this. I suspect the PRC can see the writing on the wall. They literally have nothing to lose by combating climate change and investing in mitigation/green energy. It will help to quell the murmurs of discontent over the environment domestically and paints them in a very positive light on the international stage. They also have done a lot of development work/major investments in African countries (many of which will be hit hard by climate change) and I'm sure they'll want to keep up the good will as they push development (read: influence) there. Come on guys, you really think the only reason politicians are pushing for dirty power is because they lust for the destruction of the environment? Of course there's short-term benefit in it. THAT'S WHY WE GOT INTO THIS SITUATION
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Nov 10, 2016 07:00
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TildeATH posted:Come on guys, you really think the only reason politicians are pushing for dirty power is because they lust for the destruction of the environment? Of course there's short-term benefit in it. Right but China needs a bunch of make work to pretend the economy can keep growing so maybe they're able to connect the dots and do a bunch of climate related make work.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:09
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Trabisnikof posted:That or they use this as a chance to forever cripple the US by excluding us from their climate mitigating markets. If China and the EU saw this as a chance to shut out US manufacturers, that could be a best case. I would 100% support the rest of the world pushing forward on mitigation efforts while crippling the US economy as punishment for our failure to act. I mean I don't think there's a chance in hell of it happening, but I enjoy the idea of a Trump presidency actually leading to the greatest collective environmental action the world has ever taken.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:26
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