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Main Paineframe posted:Well, let's turn that around. Why should black voters do anything to help white people, who not only actively hate them but have monopolized the power of the state to oppress them for literal centuries? Why should they be obligated to give a poo poo what whites think? Why should equal rights for minorities be something that white people yank away any time they feel like minorities aren't being sufficiently grateful to their white overlords? the democrats are never winning another election. VRA will be dead and that's pretty much it
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Nov 10, 2016 00:39
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Dems lost primarily because they treated progressives like poo poo. Sanders would have walked in to the White House if the party hadn't conspired within themselves and with the media against him. And even a Clinton/Sanders or Clinton/Warren ticket would have won handily. This election could have been an overwhelming progressive mandate (and see that even with depressed turnout because of a lovely top of the ticket, there were victories like Arpaio getting kicked out and the first election of an openly LGBT governor). But they embraced their insiders and their centrism, propped up a fake progressive who the people couldn't trust let alone be inspired to rally around, and banked on being able to guilt enough of their base into voting just because. If there is any light here, it's that the Democratic establishment has been thoroughly discredited and that actual progressives have/get to pick up the pieces, and the narratives critical of Clinton/Dems that were being suppressed because people were scared of a Trump victory are going to be out in the open now that she has so thoroughly failed.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:39
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Dead Cosmonaut posted:lmao at the death spiral of liberals here in this thread and pretty much everywhere else Hope you'll still be laughing when Trump ploughs the economy into the ground.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:38
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it's almost like you can't win as a democrat without inspiring voter trust on issues of both race AND class a profound revelation
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Nov 10, 2016 00:39
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So I don't know if this has been covered, but one of his 'first 100 days' proposals is to remove federal funding for sanctuary cities. Out of curiosity, I looked up what San Francisco gets for federal funding, and the first link was for homelessness programs.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:39
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Captain Magic posted:The racism of white people is inescapable. Writing them off as portions of the electorate, however, is very avoidable, and indeed their actual fears can be used to promote good things. The Dems chose instead to ignore and ridicule their fears. To restructure and rebuild, the idea is to take those fears and identify what positive policies can be promoted with them. Enlighten us on what positive policies can be built from racism. I'm all ears.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:40
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:welcome to your four years of Russian vacation, America Just as long as there's hope we can come home at the end of them. 
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Nov 10, 2016 00:40
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Not a Step posted:Nah. Identity politics trump class politics by design. You have all these idiots running around talking about black problems and hispanic problems so the logical extension is white problems. Nobody talks about poor problems, and when Bernie tried to he got called a racist and was overwhelmingly rejected by black people. Considering how wrong the voting models were it's safe to say sociology will be an evolving science for a while
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Nov 10, 2016 00:41
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, let's turn that around. Why should black voters do anything to help white people, who not only actively hate them but have monopolized the power of the state to oppress them for literal centuries? Why should they be obligated to give a poo poo what whites think? Why should equal rights for minorities be something that white people yank away any time they feel like minorities aren't being sufficiently grateful to their white overlords? White voters dont need black voters. White voters, as a bloc, hold enough power to do whatever they want and not give a poo poo about minorities: they elected Trump. Whites dont need blacks to do whatever they want. Blacks need whites to accomplish literally anything on the national stage. Come on you people are supposed to be experts on systemic racism and power imbalances, how does this simple fact escape you?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:40
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It'll be interesting to see what parts of the Republican party fully embrace Trumpism and try to become his allies in Congress and other branches of government, and even moreso to see what happens internally in the midterms - Trumpist Republicans fishing for Trump's support to primary out "moderates" (a.k.a. anyone who expresses less than full-throated enthusiasm for Trump's agenda) could make that GOP civil war real, or at least spook the rest of the party hard enough into falling in line with their new leader. Trump's supporters seem more invested in him being an authoritarian strongman than even Trump is. Now that he's got four years of power, the people he attracts will be the next generation of Republicans. He'll shape the party in his own image the way Reagan did, and who knows, maybe the dangerous, cunning nationalist would-be dictator will get their chance to rise up the ranks under a Trump administration.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:40
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itt democrats refuse to think about why they lost in an election where voter suppression was still illegal because they'll definitely make it all back once voter suppression is mandatory
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Nov 10, 2016 00:40
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VROOM VROOM posted:Dems lost primarily because they treated progressives like poo poo. Sanders would have walked in to the White House if the party hadn't conspired within themselves and with the media against him. And even a Clinton/Sanders or Clinton/Warren ticket would have won handily. This election could have been an overwhelming progressive mandate (and see that even with depressed turnout because of a lovely top of the ticket, there were victories like Arpaio getting kicked out and the first election of an openly LGBT governor). But they embraced their insiders and their centrism, propped up a fake progressive who the people couldn't trust let alone be inspired to rally around, and banked on being able to guilt enough of their base into voting just because. If there is any light here, it's that the Democratic establishment has been thoroughly discredited and that actual progressives have/get to pick up the pieces, and the narratives critical of Clinton/Dems that were being suppressed because people were scared of a Trump victory are going to be out in the open now that she has so thoroughly failed. friend, the Democratic party is not going to tack progressive. There are no major progressive leaders left to pick up the pieces. Accelerationism is a morally bankrupt position for sociopaths who won't be harmed by its consequences.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:42
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quote:The Trump transition team would not comment on whether the candidate intended to follow through on his campaign pledge to appoint a special prosecutor and jail Hillary Clinton over her use of a private email server while Secretary of State. A source close to Trump, who requested anonymity to speak freely, said, "We are going to see what the new Attorney General recommends. Mr. Trump will follow their recommendation." https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/796214743962972160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Nov 10, 2016 00:43
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VROOM VROOM posted:Dems lost primarily because they treated progressives like poo poo. Sanders would have walked in to the White House if the party hadn't conspired within themselves and with the media against him. And even a Clinton/Sanders or Clinton/Warren ticket would have won handily. This election could have been an overwhelming progressive mandate (and see that even with depressed turnout because of a lovely top of the ticket, there were victories like Arpaio getting kicked out and the first election of an openly LGBT governor). But they embraced their insiders and their centrism, propped up a fake progressive who the people couldn't trust let alone be inspired to rally around, and banked on being able to guilt enough of their base into voting just because. If there is any light here, it's that the Democratic establishment has been thoroughly discredited and that actual progressives have/get to pick up the pieces, and the narratives critical of Clinton/Dems that were being suppressed because people were scared of a Trump victory are going to be out in the open now that she has so thoroughly failed. Uhh the dems were absurdity nice to progressives this cycle.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:44
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Here's the reality. TPP will pass in the lame duck and any trade policy changes will be pure window dressing. Real protectionism would gently caress with Trump's bottom line and that is the only thing that matters to him. His voters got conned just like they get conned by the gold/supplement/MLM/prepper advertisers on right wing media.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:44
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negromancer posted:You have it backwards. lol you people are real dumb. whites dont need minorities. you're gonna be waiting alone at that table for a long, long time. use that woke knowledge to work out that whites hold all the cards in this country and have no reason whatsoever to want to share power with people who are just mad all the time
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Nov 10, 2016 00:43
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:https://twitter.com/gabrielsherman/status/796214743962972160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw trump wants to listen to other people? well that's a good first step in the right direction for someone like himself
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Nov 10, 2016 00:44
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corn in the bible posted:Gerald Kaufman, everybody. Gerald Kaufman! I don't get the reference. Also, I could not think of a worse person to appoint to the Sec of Health and Human Services. He is bad.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:45
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There's some sort of irony somewhere that the reaction to the idea that having the luxury of discussion on identity politics isn't self selecting by having things like consistent internet access. The mid west just coughed up blood and the reaction seems to be, "why aren't you voting as intended?"
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Nov 10, 2016 00:46
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Not a Step posted:White voters dont need black voters. White voters, as a bloc, hold enough power to do whatever they want and not give a poo poo about minorities: they elected Trump. And this is why I'm moving a lot earlier than expected. If I have to coddle you and your stupid ideas just to be treated like a human being, then the government should fund a way back to where we came from and ECOWAS countries should offer black Americans that want to come back citizenship the way Israel does for Jews, because gently caress America if this is the case.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:46
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BarbarianElephant posted:Hope you'll still be laughing when Trump ploughs the economy into the ground. I know I'll be laughing. Because if I wasn't I'd either be crying or screaming in horror. Just talking about this makes me want to self medicate.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:45
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Bip Roberts posted:Uhh the dems were absurdity nice to progressives this cycle. Ahahahahahahaha Yeah. The DNC sure was nice to the progressives. It was those Berniebros (invented and marketed by Hillary and Co) that raised all the ruckus. And the DNC certainly didnt shaft Bernie to crown their failure of a Yaaaas Qweeen.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:46
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Not a Step posted:lol you people are real dumb. whites dont need minorities. you're gonna be waiting alone at that table for a long, long time. use that woke knowledge to work out that whites hold all the cards in this country and have no reason whatsoever to want to share power with people who are just mad all the time Black people: Just mad all the time for no reason whatsoever Yeah, gently caress outta here with this bullshit.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:47
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negromancer posted:And this is why I'm moving a lot earlier than expected. Please elaborate because that sounds like gibberish, what's ECOWAS
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Nov 10, 2016 00:47
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Yeah right, working class MI/WI/PA voters would vote for a nebbishy ex hippie Jewish dude from Brooklyn. Have you ever been to these places? I grew up in one of them. The antisemitism runs just as deep as the racism. If anything it's more acceptable in professional circles. I've heard educated white people say poo poo about Jews that they would never say openly about any other ethnic group including blacks.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:48
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negromancer posted:Black people: Just mad all the time for no reason whatsoever I thought it was okay to talk realpolitik here?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:48
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Quorum posted:friend, the Democratic party is not going to tack progressive. There are no major progressive leaders left to pick up the pieces. Accelerationism is a morally bankrupt position for sociopaths who won't be harmed by its consequences. I'm not really familiar with the intricacies of your legal system, but is there some legal reason Bernie couldn't just run again?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:48
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Not a Step posted:Ahahahahahahaha I mean Bernie lost but I have no idea what offenses there was beside losing and having a bunch of his platform adopted.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:49
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Look. Clinton and the dems made a mistake by ignoring the damage free trade has done to the working class, and by their contempt for lower class poors. That's what cost her the election, and it's ok to admit that. If you disagree, and feel like the problem is that all white people are just awful racists, then you need to leave the country or start an armed rebellion to carve out some living space for pocs to form their own country, because I don't see what other options you have. They aren't just going to die out, especially since in the near future the lighter skinned hispanics may be brought into the fold, just like the Irish ect were 100 years ago. Find some other way to engage with white people beyond "if you don't want what I want you're litterally hitler". I know its frustrating that the average white cis voter cares more about their problems then about your problems, but thats human nature and not confined to whites. Focus on the problems you have in common so you can work together towards both your goals. WorldsStongestNerd fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 00:48
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negromancer posted:And this is why I'm moving a lot earlier than expected. Put in a request with President Trump to get a ride back when he deports everyone else because your dumb candidate couldn't rally the same rural whites who voted for noted black man Barack Hussein Obama in 2008 and 2012.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:49
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VROOM VROOM posted:Dems lost primarily because they treated progressives like poo poo. Sanders would have walked in to the White House if the party hadn't conspired within themselves and with the media against him. And even a Clinton/Sanders or Clinton/Warren ticket would have won handily. This election could have been an overwhelming progressive mandate (and see that even with depressed turnout because of a lovely top of the ticket, there were victories like Arpaio getting kicked out and the first election of an openly LGBT governor). But they embraced their insiders and their centrism, propped up a fake progressive who the people couldn't trust let alone be inspired to rally around, and banked on being able to guilt enough of their base into voting just because. If there is any light here, it's that the Democratic establishment has been thoroughly discredited and that actual progressives have/get to pick up the pieces, and the narratives critical of Clinton/Dems that were being suppressed because people were scared of a Trump victory are going to be out in the open now that she has so thoroughly failed. HI you appear lost the site you want is reddit dot com
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Nov 10, 2016 00:50
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negromancer posted:Enlighten us on what positive policies can be built from racism. The fear isn't race. Race is the vehicle for the fear of not having a job, of not having a retirement, of not feeling safe. Like, the Republicans over and over again end up as the more savvy politicians because Dems refuse to hold their noses and ever once talk to people who say slurs in a casual way, and think that somehow these bad seeds will just sort themselves out on their own (somehow, some way, without ever explaining or thinking about how this would ever possibly come to pass). Republicans keep playing the same card, and it keeps working, because Dems honest-to-god just won't dirty their hands and talk about how to make racists vote for them and think about things the way they want them to.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:49
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Gail Wynand posted:Yeah right, working class MI/WI/PA voters would vote for a nebbishy ex hippie Jewish dude from Brooklyn. Have you ever been to these places? I grew up in one of them. The antisemitism runs just as deep as the racism. If anything it's more acceptable in professional circles. I've heard educated white people say poo poo about Jews that they would never say openly about any other ethnic group including blacks. It's not offensive if you couch it in a positive stereotype. I've heard professional people of all ages say insane things about Jews and Asians and not think twice about it because they follow it up with a positive sounding conclusion. "Those Jews are greedy, but it makes them very smart about their money and they educate themselves constantly to keep ahead." (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 00:50
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Goatman Sacks posted:HI you appear lost the site you want is reddit dot com I think he's got some valid points that should be saved for our amazing forums, actually
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Nov 10, 2016 00:51
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:Please elaborate because that sounds like gibberish, what's ECOWAS Is google like, not a thing where you live? Do you not know about the "Right of Return" Jews in America have with Israel? Like, how are you asking these basic questions while also possessing an internet connection?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:51
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Quorum posted:friend, the Democratic party is not going to tack progressive. There are no major progressive leaders left to pick up the pieces. Accelerationism is a morally bankrupt position for sociopaths who won't be harmed by its consequences. There never were any progressive leaders. People think that because the Democrats win two elections in a row at the national level, they're the dominant party with strong leadership. They controlled one branch of government at the national level in the past 8 years and that's basically it. Aside from a few years here and there where they controlled or partially controlled Congress. They have a minority of state governorships. A minority of state legislatures. The Democrats have never had depth to their leadership. If the Democrats don't have the presidency, they are basically a regional party.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:52
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Captain Magic posted:You mean how they listened to angry people and offered them something they wanted despite them historically disagreeing? No you  moron. How they obstructed everything for ~8 years by throwing tantrums and refusing to work with democrats. Now they get to have their cake and eat it too. Look at how unsuccessful it was.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:51
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's not offensive if you couch it in a positive stereotype. I've heard professional people of all ages say insane things about Jews and Asians and not think twice about it because they follow it up with a positive sounding conclusion. "Those Jews are greedy, but it makes them very smart about their money and they educate themselves constantly to keep ahead." Soy Division fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 00:52
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negromancer posted:Enlighten us on what positive policies can be built from racism. maybe I'm taking what captain magic said the wrong way but I think the argument could be made that educating racist perspectives in a positive way is possible and even the best way to address them? Liberal anti-racist efforts have largely been a flowery "we're all the saaaaaame guys" and glossing over very real differences between peoples rather than accepting there are differences and educating people that they aren't threats to your existence or beliefs. Racists on the other hand have exclusively capitalized on emphasizing the differences as a bad, threatening thing and it intuitively makes sense to people because it's pointing an obvious difference out as opposed to other groups that try to just say everything is the same. A great example of this in action could be education programs in the state of Alaska that have Alaska Native groups coming into elementary classes and sharing their culture and talking about how it's different. It's taking a very obvious difference in lifestyle and beliefs, making it familiar, and demonstrating that it isn't destroying anyone else's way of life. If nothing else, you could get mere-exposure effects to take the edge off stupid racist bullshit.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:52
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So did white people elect Trump because they genuinely believe he'll do a great job, or just as a giant middle finger to the establishment? If it's the latter I don't see cutting off your nose to spite your face as a wise long term strategy.
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Nov 10, 2016 00:54
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