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Trabisnikof posted:Then why argue Democrats should do something then say "oh sweetie they won't even be allowed to do it" when it is pointed out to be a bad idea. So instead the Dems should act bipartisan and be spineless I get it.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:34
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Crowsbeak posted:So instead the Dems should act bipartisan and be spineless I get it. The dems don't control any branch of government. Who cares what they do. They could filibuster a whole bunch. I guess. The Republicans didn't seem to hurt their chances with such behavior.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:37
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Crowsbeak posted:So instead the Dems should act bipartisan and be spineless I get it. Well you know the whole trying to bully people into voting for your party didn't work so maybe they should be a little more open to starting a dialogue at least
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Nov 10, 2016 03:39
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The dems don't control any branch of government. Who cares what they do. They could filibuster a whole bunch. I guess. The Republicans didn't seem to hurt their chances with such behavior. It would be nice if they could actually take a page out of the Republican playbook and stand firm by their values and core constituency, instead of immediately folding in the face of the slightest adversity like usual.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:41
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It's a bit tinhat, but wha are the chances Putin installs some of his peeps in Donnie's cabinet or clos to him, haven't really seen any post about that other than East Europe falling and stuff.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:41
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Sydin posted:It would be nice if they could actually take a page out of the Republican playbook and stand firm by their values and core constituency, instead of immediately folding in the face of the slightest adversity like usual. I agree, but beyond going on the news and community organizing there isn't really anything they can do on the congressional level if the GOP whips do their job and they eliminate the filibuster at the beginning of the session. Like, what should they do? Hope two of em get sick and no dems do so they can block things? Hope Marco Rubio just fucks off on vacation for six years?
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Nov 10, 2016 03:43
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I'm eagerly awaiting the deepening social divide. I want this pressure to build even more, so when it all explodes it's going to be even more gloriously explosive. At this point, I'm willing to let everything burn to the ground so that not even the roots of the GoP can come back. This is probably too nihilist of me, but I'll probably change my mind later on. Maybe after New Years, when I return from my vacation to China and realize the the US is still much better than most of the world, what with no thought police and censorship and stuff. Until then, I'll be chanting "It's only 8 years at worst" to myself before bed every night.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:44
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The dems don't control any branch of government. Who cares what they do. They could filibuster a whole bunch. I guess. The Republicans didn't seem to hurt their chances with such behavior. If Dems don't take this as an invitation to use the exact same strategy of the no party, I'm gonna laugh my rear end off
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Nov 10, 2016 03:45
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:The dems don't control any branch of government. Who cares what they do. They could filibuster a whole bunch. I guess. The Republicans didn't seem to hurt their chances with such behavior. Democrats ostensibly are the party of making government work, so rampant obstructionism is kind of counter to the message.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:44
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The irony of a bunch of people who tell everyone not to get so offended all the time getting offended by getting called a racist electing a person who offends almost everyone, even some of the people who voted for him! It's like pretty much the exact same argument bigots use to justify using slurs too, it's pretty much white people getting offended by a bunch of words that don't affect their day-to-day lives in any way
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Nov 10, 2016 03:45
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My Linux Rig posted:If Dems don't take this as an invitation to use the exact same strategy of the no party, I'm gonna laugh my rear end off they can't fillibuster, its gone. Republicans will control everything to the point where saying no literally will not matter for procedure. If they had won two more Senate seats they could obstruct everything. but they didn't. Maybe hope Trump gets overconfident, pulls R-Senators for the cabinet and they squeak out a win in the special election? Like even at a tie, Mike loving Pence casts the tie-breaking vote.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:47
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chumbler posted:Democrats ostensibly are the party of making government work, so rampant obstructionism is kind of counter to the message. Bad legislation isn't making government work and rampant obstructionism would show that the rent-seekers in congress have some backbone and maybe even values to defend. Or maybe they should just liquidate the DNC.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:48
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Is there anything that would prevent Obama from running for Senator.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:49
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My Linux Rig posted:Well you know the whole trying to bully people into voting for your party didn't work so maybe they should be a little more open to starting a dialogue at least The dialogue that was attempted starting, oh, about 8 years ago?
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Nov 10, 2016 03:49
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I think the Democrats should just vote No on everything, but let everything that the Republicans want passed go through. Everything. Anti-Abortion, racist measures, slashing Social Security, everything. Let the Republicans run everything to the ground. Then when people complain that things are going to poo poo, they can legitimately say, "Hey, you voted these guys into congress and the White House. We tried to oppose it without being dickheads like they were, and this is the most that it amounts to. Unless you vote more reasonable people who want good things to happen into office, this will continue to happen until this democracy is a sham of what it is."
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Nov 10, 2016 03:49
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Hollismason posted:Is there anything that would prevent Obama from running for Senator. No he won't do it though. jwang posted:I think the Democrats should just vote No on everything, but let everything that the Republicans want passed go through. Everything. Anti-Abortion, racist measures, slashing Social Security, everything. Let the Republicans run everything to the ground. Then when people complain that things are going to poo poo, they can legitimately say, "Hey, you voted these guys into congress and the White House. We tried to oppose it without being dickheads like they were, and this is the most that it amounts to. Unless you vote more reasonable people who want good things to happen into office, this will continue to happen until this democracy is a sham of what it is." You know this is literally going to happen no matter what right? they can't stop it. there will be no mechanism to stop it. I do not think people are fundamentally grasping how hosed we are.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:49
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chumbler posted:Democrats ostensibly are the party of making government work, so rampant obstructionism is kind of counter to the message. Sometimes to fix something you got to powercycle it. Turn it off for a few edit: Also like I said call and write letters to the office of your senators and congress reps. PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 03:51
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jwang posted:I'm eagerly awaiting the deepening social divide. I want this pressure to build even more, so when it all explodes it's going to be even more gloriously explosive. At this point, I'm willing to let everything burn to the ground so that not even the roots of the GoP can come back. This is probably too nihilist of me, but I'll probably change my mind later on. Maybe after New Years, when I return from my vacation to China and realize the the US is still much better than most of the world, what with no thought police and censorship and stuff. Friendly reminder that accelerationism in all forms is a lovely line of thinking because it ignores the plight of all the already downtrodden people, who did not vote for the government they are getting, that will suffer for the sake of letting everything burn to the ground.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:51
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PKJC posted:Friendly reminder that accelerationism in all forms is a lovely line of thinking because it ignores the plight of all the already downtrodden people, who did not vote for the government they are getting, that will suffer for the sake of letting everything burn to the ground. Nobody wanted the lovely result to happen but it's already happened. Plenty of downtrodden people are split between how poo poo it will be and an increasing desire to burn it all to the ground now that it's happened and they can't really do anything about it.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:54
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Good. Maybe that would make people more concerned with the policy of the people being voted in rather than just how charismatic someone is. Charisma is probably one of the worst points to elect someone on, and ever since the Nixon-Kennedy debate that seems to be what most of US elections revolve around.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:55
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Hollismason posted:Is there anything that would prevent Obama from running for Senator. Michelle 
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Nov 10, 2016 03:55
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jwang posted:I think the Democrats should just vote No on everything, but let everything that the Republicans want passed go through. Everything. Anti-Abortion, racist measures, slashing Social Security, everything. Let the Republicans run everything to the ground. Then when people complain that things are going to poo poo, they can legitimately say, "Hey, you voted these guys into congress and the White House. We tried to oppose it without being dickheads like they were, and this is the most that it amounts to. Unless you vote more reasonable people who want good things to happen into office, this will continue to happen until this democracy is a sham of what it is." This only works if you assume Democrats can use facts to shape the media message, and I think we've firmly established at this point they absolutely cannot. Dems could vote no on literally everything from now until November 8th, 2020 and swaths of the population would lay all the problems in the nation that crop up during a Trump presidency at their feet.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:55
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Zore posted:No Everyone has but white Trump voters.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:57
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jwang posted:Good. Maybe that would make people more concerned with the policy of the people being voted in rather than just how charismatic someone is. Charisma is probably one of the worst points to elect someone on, and ever since the Nixon-Kennedy debate that seems to be what most of US elections revolve around. Explain why minorities, women, and LGBT people who voted for, and in some cases went out and worked for the Dem nominee deserve to suffer through this. Not arguing that they will end up doing so, reality is already set there. Explain why "Good" is an appropriate reaction to a bunch of people about to be hurt and/or dead through no fault of their own but not kowtowing hard enough to the desires of poor white bigots.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:59
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chumbler posted:Democrats ostensibly are the party of making government work, so rampant obstructionism is kind of counter to the message. Obstructionism for its own sake is one thing, the GOP gleefully did this for years. But principled resistance is another entirely. Unfortunately, a lot of senate Democrats will see their seats up for grabs in a couple years and taking a stand could cost them even more control if the GOP can successfully portray them as standing in the way of Trump's progress. (Given the way the presidential election played out this apparently wouldn't be difficult.) It's a catch-22.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:00
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Sydin posted:This only works if you assume Democrats can use facts to shape the media message, and I think we've firmly established at this point they absolutely cannot. Dems could vote no on literally everything from now until November 8th, 2020 and swaths of the population would lay all the problems in the nation that crop up during a Trump presidency at their feet. This exactly. Democrats only have even a slim chance of not getting all of the blame if they make an effort to take the high road. That being said, the democratic party is basically dead anyway because the coalition never really existed and we were all just fooling ourselves. They're going to turn on each other harder than anyone thought the republicans would.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:01
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Lemming posted:In this case, though, obstruction is trying to stop the government from getting worse. Ha that's the reason I voted Trump in the first place
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Nov 10, 2016 04:00
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PhazonLink posted:It's a bit tinhat, but wha are the chances Putin installs some of his peeps in Donnie's cabinet or clos to him, haven't really seen any post about that other than East Europe falling and stuff. That's a little beyond tin hat into bugshit crazy dude
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Nov 10, 2016 04:02
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C2C - 2.0 posted:The dialogue that was attempted starting, oh, about 8 years ago? Bullshit. Every liberal was out in force to make sure anyone who expressed anything against Hillary was deemed as some backwater hick Kind of back fired, didn't it?
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Nov 10, 2016 04:03
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Quick Draw McGraw posted:Ha that's the reason I voted Trump in the first place Ha! Well as long as you are a straight, white male: way to go!
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Nov 10, 2016 04:05
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My Linux Rig posted:Bullshit. Every liberal was out in force to make sure anyone who expressed anything against Hillary was deemed as some backwater hick 8 years ago?
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Nov 10, 2016 04:06
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My Linux Rig posted:Bullshit. Every liberal was out in force to make sure anyone who expressed anything against Hillary was deemed as some backwater hick The truth hurts. Trump supporters are mostly backwater hicks, and pointing that out was not enough to stop him.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:05
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PKJC posted:Friendly reminder that accelerationism in all forms is a lovely line of thinking because it ignores the plight of all the already downtrodden people, who did not vote for the government they are getting, that will suffer for the sake of letting everything burn to the ground. It's not quite accelerationism if Democrats obstruct to their best and the outcome is only marginally less lovely. Accelerationism is a bad line of reasoning when you're comparing something average to below average with something terrible. Trump is proposing a climate change denialist for the head of the EPA for fucks sake.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:07
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pocket pool posted:Unfortunately, a lot of senate Democrats will see their seats up for grabs in a couple years and taking a stand could cost them even more control if the GOP can successfully portray them as standing in the way of Trump's progress. (Given the way the presidential election played out this apparently wouldn't be difficult.) Democrats would rather play to moderates and conservatives than their own base. Really makes you think about why Trump is in charge and Dem turnout keeps going down Or maybe not 
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Nov 10, 2016 04:08
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New Hampshire has elected Chris Sununu governor. Our legislature traditionally sends a permitless carry bill to the governor's desk every year. Part of Sununu's campaign was a promise to sign such a law should one make it to him. As a coincidence my resident pistol/revolver license is due for renewal next September. If things go as promised, the state will save me ten dollars. That being the cost of a box of adequate plinking 9mm, I am effectively being given more range time every four years. Democracy might actually work. 
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Nov 10, 2016 04:07
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I sincerely hope Obama is the last democratic president. We need a new party. The Democratic Party is completely toxic.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:08
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PKJC posted:Explain why minorities, women, and LGBT people who voted for, and in some cases went out and worked for the Dem nominee deserve to suffer through this. Not arguing that they will end up doing so, reality is already set there. Explain why "Good" is an appropriate reaction to a bunch of people about to be hurt and/or dead through no fault of their own but not kowtowing hard enough to the desires of poor white bigots. Because progress is always painful, and unless you want this progress to stay, it needs to be reinforced into our lizard brains by pain. The brief 8 years of the Bush administration apparently isn't painful enough, what with the recession and housing bubble; so this time I'm hoping that enough bad poo poo gets pushed through that people realize that touching the hot stove is bad, that letting a fire burn out of control will cause massive damage. This lesson needs to be taught in a fashion that tells the whole of US that the policies that benefits only a section of the nation is always a terrible policy, and instead should encompass the whole nation. The lesson that divides "us" and "others" is an entirely insane idea that only makes this great nation worse, and is anathema to progress needs to be seared into our historic conscience like the idea that Nazism, fascism, totalitarianism are TERRIBLE things, and letting little evils like curbing the rights of a minority is simply the first step towards that greater one. So that future generations can look back and say, "This is where America had its darkest hour, where they let the evils of the past rise again. Thank god we've vanquished that demon, and has remained ever vigilant for its return."
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Nov 10, 2016 04:08
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Mister Macys posted:Democrats would rather play to moderates and conservatives than their own base. I don't disagree at all, but my point is there's no easy answer. Because, you know what else decreases their ability to influence policy? Losing seats all-together.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:08
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So does anyone really think the take-away from this will be "we didn't go leftist enough" and not "oh look, it turns out Progressives don't vote, gently caress them." The remainder of the dems are probably going to run right hard after this, while progressive causes are buried as we try to rebuild the 2 to probably 8 years of republican fuckery.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:10
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chumbler posted:This exactly. Democrats only have even a slim chance of not getting all of the blame if they make an effort to take the high road. Winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college isn't nearly as dire straights as the Democratic Party has weathered before. Remember Mondale?
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Nov 10, 2016 04:09
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