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Kurzon posted:If it had been up to me, I would have set this movie 5 years prior to Iron Man 1, so that by the time Strange teams up with the Avengers he's already a master sorcerer. With Strange being in at least one other movie (and probably one part of Avengers), I think there we run into the problem of "Why doesn't Strange just *magick* the problem away?". I think it is good that he isn't a master sorcerer at this time
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Nov 9, 2016 15:42
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Plus he's going to be without the eye of Agamotto when Thanos takes the gem.
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Nov 9, 2016 15:45
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Gatts posted:Plus he's going to be without the eye of Agamotto when Thanos takes the gem. Really not looking forward to Vision dying. Like he'll either be ripped apart or he'll fall over dead like Switch in The Matrix.
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Nov 9, 2016 15:51
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Or he'll just continue to live because he doesn't believe that will kill him like Moriarty in Next Generation.
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Nov 9, 2016 15:57
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Lobok posted:Really not looking forward to Vision dying. Like he'll either be ripped apart or he'll fall over dead like Switch in The Matrix. I look forward to the scene when Thanos punches Vision's head into a wall and sockets the infinity stone into the Gauntlet in one move.
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Nov 9, 2016 16:04
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notthegoatseguy posted:With Strange being in at least one other movie (and probably one part of Avengers), I think there we run into the problem of "Why doesn't Strange just *magick* the problem away?". I think it is good that he isn't a master sorcerer at this time
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Nov 9, 2016 16:15
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GonSmithe posted:I look forward to the scene when Thanos punches Vision's head into a wall and sockets the infinity stone into the Gauntlet in one move. Well, now I'm looking forward to it as well!
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Nov 9, 2016 19:00
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Lobok posted:Really not looking forward to Vision dying. Like he'll either be ripped apart or he'll fall over dead like Switch in The Matrix. I would think that Infinity War will focus on Thanos having almost all the Stones, and the Avengers suddenly realising that the Vision has the last one in his head.
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Nov 9, 2016 19:04
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Jedit posted:I would think that Infinity War will focus on Thanos having almost all the Stones, and the Avengers suddenly realising that the Vision has the last one in his head. Moments before Thanos walks up and: 
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Nov 9, 2016 19:59
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If Vision develops a love of Falcon and his death drives Spiderman to super hero level 2 then it's worth it.
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Nov 9, 2016 20:39
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Jedit posted:I would think that Infinity War will focus on Thanos having almost all the Stones, and the Avengers suddenly realising that the Vision has the last one in his head. Thanos probably already has the Soul Gem given it's the only one not to appear so far and while it's conceivable that the movies would skip Thanos attacking Knowhere to get one of the Stone's from the Collector as well as attacking Xander to get another from the Nova Corp, and even conceivable that it would skip him attacking Asgard to get the third out of their vault I don't see the movies skipping him taking the Eye from Doctor Strange. That's too big a fight for our heroes to lose and eventually bounce back from to not include. I'd imagine though that the first Infinity War movie will detail him taking the various gems, culminating in an Avenger's defeat where Vision "dies", while the second is the fight back against him. Vision though is probably only going to have been granted life by the Mind gem and able to maintain that life without it in the end or something. Though on the other hand, the gem in his forehead is rather a signature part of his design and living without the gem would mean getting rid of that, so maybe not?
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Nov 10, 2016 00:38
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tsob posted:Thanos probably already has the Soul Gem given it's the only one not to appear so far The villain of Thor: Ragnarok is Hela. As she rules over the souls of the dead, odds are good she has it.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:03
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Jedit posted:The villain of Thor: Ragnarok is Hela. As she rules over the souls of the dead, odds are good she has it. Her or the Grandmaster. Oh god please let Jeff Goldblum rule over people's souls oh please oh please oh please....
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Nov 10, 2016 05:33
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Lobok posted:Moments before Thanos walks up and: Cell happens to be DBZ's Amazo. So that makes Android 16... Cyborg?
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Nov 10, 2016 05:38
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Movie was jokey garbage alright peace
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Nov 10, 2016 23:22
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I think the end of Thor Ragnorak is gonna be Thanos casually walking into and laying waste to Asgard to take the gems and show he means business. Bonus points if the universe's last stand is in Wakanda.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:00
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dangerdoom volvo posted:Movie was jokey garbage alright peace agreed i spent my time wanting something to happen when it did it was mediocre so whatever good job being consistant marvel
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Nov 11, 2016 07:04
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Watched this movie twice now and I must be missing something, because I'm pretty sure Strange just walks up and takes an Infinity Stone that nobody seems to give a poo poo about. They mention it, but make no move to put it back in its place. Is the Time Stone just that big of a piece of crap? Granted, at the beginning of GotG, the Power Stone was just chilling in some ruins on some planet, but being lost is different than being disregarded.
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Nov 11, 2016 10:09
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Inspector 34 posted:Watched this movie twice now and I must be missing something, because I'm pretty sure Strange just walks up and takes an Infinity Stone that nobody seems to give a poo poo about. They mention it, but make no move to put it back in its place. Is the Time Stone just that big of a piece of crap? Granted, at the beginning of GotG, the Power Stone was just chilling in some ruins on some planet, but being lost is different than being disregarded. It's kept under guard in the Ancient One's library. They just didn't expect one of their own to just start loving around with it.
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Nov 11, 2016 13:15
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jivjov posted:It's kept under guard in the Ancient One's library. They just didn't expect one of their own to just start loving around with it. Or to have figured out how to unlock its protective housing.
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Nov 11, 2016 13:31
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tsob posted:Thanos probably already has the Soul Gem given it's the only one not to appear so far and while it's conceivable that the movies would skip Thanos attacking Knowhere to get one of the Stone's from the Collector ... He doesn't have to, based on the stinger where he first shows up The Collector is working for Thanos.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:13
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I didn't much care for this.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:24
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General Dog posted:I didn't much care for this. dangerdoom volvo posted:Movie was jokey garbage alright peace A+ posting guys. Way to contribute 
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Nov 11, 2016 15:34
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well why not posted:A+ posting guys. Way to contribute Username/post A+
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Nov 11, 2016 15:52
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Expanded thoughts: -Setpieces and the ending are good, but they're tacked onto an origin story so generic that it almost plays like a Zucker-Abrams-Suker style parody, just without the jokes. His character arc feels strangely condensed, despite it being a feature-length origin story. It's like a switch is flipped and he's suddenly gone from rear end in a top hat to all about saving the world the minute he encounters evil, like Dennis Miller after 9/11. -Dr. Strange's quippiness doesn't make sense for such a self-serious character -I like Rachel McAdams but I'm not sure why they ponied up the money for her for a part that could have gone to a cardboard cutout. Don't get me wrong, the movie is fine, just like every Marvel movie is fine, but the dull, formulaic competence has just become crushing. This is the first I've seen since The Winter Soldier, I decided to check it out because of reviews claiming it was a departure from the norm, but the departure is really superficial imo. General Dog fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 15:53
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You're not wrong that it's formulaic, but I'm not sure that I count 'formulaic' as a negative - the formula works and provides a good base for the performances, effects and visual. How would you've changed the makeup of the film to be more unique?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:58
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well why not posted:You're not wrong that it's formulaic, but I'm not sure that I count 'formulaic' as a negative - the formula works and provides a good base for the performances, effects and visual. How would you've changed the makeup of the film to be more unique? I don't really know anything about the character from the comics, but I'm not sure if I need or want an origin movie for a wizard named "Dr. Strange". I think I'd rather meet him when he's already become Dr. Strange and go from there, and be introduced to him through an average-Joe POV character. We can find out about the character on his own terms. If we're allowed to be voyeurs to the full arc of his life, it de-mystifies him. It makes him seem weak. We meet Gandalf through Bilbo, we meet Sherlock Holmes though Watson- we don't know anything about where these guys come from, we just know what their current agenda is and that each is a force of nature. Would our understanding of Gandalf be enriched if we met him as a accountant who experiences tragedy and then decides to go to wizard school? General Dog fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 16:09
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The Gandalf comparison is incorrect because he's a supporting character whereas Dr. Strange is our protagonist, like Bilbo. And as it turns out, we do get a similar origin story for how Bilbo went from boring hobbit to brave warrior.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:12
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Josh Lyman posted:The Gandalf comparison is incorrect because he's a supporting character whereas Dr. Strange is our protagonist, like Bilbo. I edited in the Sherlock Holmes comparison just as you posted this because I realized it was a better comparison. Like I said, I don't really know the character, but I think he's maybe more interesting if he's to some extent unknowable. I don't have to be able to relate to a hero's background and struggle to be invested. Character growth doesn't have to be the be-all end-all of narrative fiction. I realize at this point I'm talking about a completely different movie than the one Marvel set out to make here, I just think it might be a little more compelling than what we got, which again was fine. General Dog fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 16:12
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I get the weariness with yet another origin story, but the character transition from master one rarified set of techniques to another, from surgeon to wizard, is relatively fertile ground for exploration. And the moment where him having to make that transition is the most difficult, where he kills someone, is one of the best character moments in the movie. It's just that most of his journey is pretty non-specific. If they'd also built conflicts out of his need for fame and recognition (I don't recall any addressing of sorcerers needing to keep themselves secret), and stuff like that, the origin part might have been more interesting.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:46
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I think that, in a vacuum, this film would probably be better-considered - origin fatigue is very much a real phenomenon. That being said, there's no vacuum, least of al CineD. Interesting seeing how pumped people are at the character moments, like the remorse after he kills that cultist, or when he looks at his hands at the end. It's relatively minor moments like those that these types of film so badly need.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:07
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I liked this movie overall, but I very much agree that the best stuff about it is in the imaginative special effects and set pieces but the rest doesn't hang together very well. A lot of the quips felt forced / out of place and the villain was barely there (but did good work with what he had.) I did quite like the ending reverse-time fight and the final confrontation.Sir Kodiak posted:I get the weariness with yet another origin story, but the character transition from master one rarified set of techniques to another, from surgeon to wizard, is relatively fertile ground for exploration. And the moment where him having to make that transition is the most difficult, where he kills someone, is one of the best character moments in the movie. The problem to me is that's NOT the moment he makes the transition. He basically does that off-screen. We have the moment on Everest when he I guess figures out how to overcome his pride by waving his hands in a circle, but even then the moment of success isn't shown -- we cut back to A1 and Mordo and Strange just falls out of a hole in the air ready to be the sorcerer supreme. There's stuff about his eidetic memory and being able to read and remember lots of books very fast but none of his magical talents feel earned in any real way. Like, I know this is a comic book movie etc etc but I think it would have benefited them to make magic a whole lot more dangerous and difficult. From what we see, all you need to be able to open portals to anywhere you want is a special ring and like a day's training. Anyone can do it! So why doesn't everyone? The only consequences we see are from the one guy that does a ~forbidden ritual~. The unclear timeline makes this worse, especially because we have a solid tie-in to the rest of the MU with the line about helping a soldier with a crushed spine right before Strange gets into his car accident. From that alone, we know that the ENTIRE movie takes place after CW -- starting with Strange spending months in rehab, exhausting modern medicine and going on his life-changing journey that results in him sitting with Thor at the end. This is something that, IMO, should have taken a decade. Unfortunately, we have no frame of reference and it doesn't feel like more than a few months at most to go from a man of science to one that can wave hands and push people into other dimensions. I think it would have benefited the movie to have him start before Iron Man 1 -- maybe show the passage of time with world events mentioned in passing as he sweats and trains? Maybe make the scene where he emails whatserface a result of him hearing about a terrifying attack on New York? I think they wanted to have cake and eat it too. An origin story that doesn't bog down with the training montage / learning section. There's a BIT of training montage but not nearly enough for the powers that he finds himself using. No one even really remarks on the progress he's making, IIRC! Mordo could have a whole 'he's doing too much, too fast! This should be taking him a lifetime!' or something. Even if he's a magical prodigy destined one it's hard to see that when there's no one else to compare him to. E: Oh, and the timeframe problem exists within the movie itself, too. Kaecilius steals the ritual then I guess sits on it for the entire time Strange is going through his journey. Would it have worked better if they joined up at the same time and came up together through the ranks, becoming friends and poo poo before Kaecilius turns to evil midway through? Certainly would have been a longer, different-paced movie. NmareBfly fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 18:41
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:He doesn't have to, based on the stinger where he first shows up The Collector is working for Thanos. How's that? He says something like "one down, five to go" but I figured he's just collecting them for his, you know, collection.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:53
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NmareBfly posted:The unclear timeline makes this worse, especially because we have a solid tie-in to the rest of the MU with the line about helping a soldier with a crushed spine right before Strange gets into his car accident. From that alone, we know that the ENTIRE movie takes place after CW -- I'll say I feel like 70% of the MCU up until this point is worthless, but even I recognized a Justin Hammer reference when I hear one. DO you not remember in one of the Iron Mans when Stark's at court and they show a Justin Hammer mechsuit on a TV that folds a soldier testing it in half?
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Nov 11, 2016 20:31
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Drifter posted:I'll say I feel like 70% of the MCU up until this point is worthless, but even I recognized a Justin Hammer reference when I hear one. DO you not remember in one of the Iron Mans when Stark's at court and they show a Justin Hammer mechsuit on a TV that folds a soldier testing it in half? Honestly, no.  I mean, I do now that I'm reminded but I didn't make the connection at the time. That's a bit better then, but the bulk of the objection still stands -- there's no sense of the passage of time within the movie itself, and asking for the audience to remember a 5-second gag from a different film that came out 6 years ago as the only indication of the timeline is sort of a tall ask. Especially when we just had another person getting a spine crushed while in power armor much more recently.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:44
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NmareBfly posted:Strange just falls out of a hole in the air ready to be the sorcerer supreme.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:59
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tsob posted:Thanos probably already has the Soul Gem given it's the only one not to appear so far and while it's conceivable that the movies would skip Thanos attacking Knowhere to get one of the Stone's from the Collector as well as attacking Xander to get another from the Nova Corp, and even conceivable that it would skip him attacking Asgard to get the third out of their vault I don't see the movies skipping him taking the Eye from Doctor Strange. That's too big a fight for our heroes to lose and eventually bounce back from to not include. I'd imagine though that the first Infinity War movie will detail him taking the various gems, culminating in an Avenger's defeat where Vision "dies", while the second is the fight back against him. Vision though is probably only going to have been granted life by the Mind gem and able to maintain that life without it in the end or something. Though on the other hand, the gem in his forehead is rather a signature part of his design and living without the gem would mean getting rid of that, so maybe not? The Russos claim the second Infinity movie (now renamed just Avengers 4 for now) is not supposed to be just a second parter of the first Infinity War movie.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:18
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NmareBfly posted:Honestly, no. I totally agree that there was no sense of time progression in the movie. Strange doesn't know anything, has a class with him trying and failing once, and then all of a sudden he does everything and unlocks mystical forbidden knowledge. I'd argue that time progression doesn't really matter, however. His journey is one of morality and compassion and responsibility, not of becoming a good sorcerer. We know he's a good sorcerer, and we don't need to watch Marvel's A Harry Potter Story. I mean, they don't do a good job really, but it's fun. I just assumed that he's a super smart doctor, and because he's super smart he remembers all the magic poo poo faster than a normal person. nelson posted:I feel the same way about our new president. Drifter fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:41
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NmareBfly posted:we cut back to A1 and Mordo and Strange just falls out of a hole in the air ready to be the sorcerer supreme. There's stuff about his eidetic memory and being able to read and remember lots of books very fast but none of his magical talents feel earned in any real way. Ignoring my disdain for the term 'earned' about anything because of course it's earned, it's on the screen, I think the point was that, huh, Smart Scientist Dude And Surgeon can apply the traits that made him that to being a really good sorcerer really fast. For all the forget-what-you-have-learned crap, the methods to being really good at being a scientist and a doctor really fast are the same ones that get you really good at being a spell-slinger.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:46
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MisterBibs posted:Ignoring my disdain for the term 'earned' about anything because of course it's earned, it's on the screen,  earn poo poo. 
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Nov 11, 2016 23:55
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