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so the best hope for climate policy under trump is to loudly shout "liberals hate nucular" at him and hope he starts building yuuuuuge nuclear power plants in a bigly way out of spite also how many degrees will trump add? my bet is between 0.5 and 1C
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Nov 10, 2016 11:33
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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sitchensis posted:tbh I think you are right about this. I suspect the PRC can see the writing on the wall. They literally have nothing to lose by combating climate change and investing in mitigation/green energy. It will help to quell the murmurs of discontent over the environment domestically and paints them in a very positive light on the international stage. They also have done a lot of development work/major investments in African countries (many of which will be hit hard by climate change) and I'm sure they'll want to keep up the good will as they push development (read: influence) there. The Chinese CPC isn't the progressive force you might expect. PRC leaders are politically constrained in terms of being able to impose economically costly climate change policies, just like their western counterparts. Mozi posted:If Trump withdraws from the Paris treaty there is no amount of organization or movement-tizing that will make up for that. Period. This needs to be emphasized. Contributing to local movements is fine and worthwhile, but it's just so easy for hard-won political progress to be undone in an instant if reactionaries gain power. Probably the most effective climate mitigation strategy in the US at this point is to ensure progressive Democrats win the Presidency and congress in 2020. Everything else is relatively insignificant in terms of emission reductions.
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Nov 10, 2016 12:13
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blowfish posted:so the best hope for climate policy under trump is to loudly shout "liberals hate nucular" at him and hope he starts building yuuuuuge nuclear power plants in a bigly way out of spite Go look at projection curves. Even conservative estimates. As terrifying as the "this is where we are headed" projections are, now look at the "this is worst case."
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Nov 10, 2016 12:39
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I know people don't like to hear me to talk about this, but hopefully the growing despair will finally make peaceful ways to end one's life more freely available. Until then I will just amuse myself I guess. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 13:55
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red plastic cup posted:Welp, here's where it starts. I was expecting Dr. Blight, but of course Trump wouldn't nominate a woman.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:09
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AceOfFlames posted:I know people don't like to hear me to talk about this, but hopefully the growing despair will finally make peaceful ways to end one's life more freely available. It is a very scary situation to rationally come to the conclusion that one needs a plan and a means to quickly and painlessly end one's life when and if the situation demands it. I never had too much hope for our efforts on this front but always thought there was some outside chance that we could maybe figure out some crazy solution and muddle through like we have throughout history. But now - stick a fork in us, we're done. Realistically I was hoping for another couple decades of stability, at least. Just for my own selfish desires to enjoy life and the world. I'm not sure what will collapse first, now, but I'm not sure we have that long. A lot of people my age have young kids or are planning to have children. It's their kids I feel the worst for. I hope it goes without saying that nothing would make me happier than to be entirely wrong. Mozi fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 14:46
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Start your own thread for whiny euthanasia talk. This thread isn't a podium to talk about killing yourself, this thread is for discussing how we're going to kill something much much bigger.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:20
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Looks like my starter house is gonna be a subterranean bunker with a mushroom farm 
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Nov 10, 2016 15:33
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Mozi posted:It is a very scary situation to rationally come to the conclusion that one needs a plan and a means to quickly and painlessly end one's life when and if the situation demands it. For what it's worth, the world will probably settle into a new equilibrium pretty soon after whatever huge cycle of wars/revolutions is coming. The worlds of 1905, 1925 and 1955 look a lot different from each other, but all of them are at a relatively stable equilibrium. Of course millions of people died in brief bursts in between them, but minor details
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Nov 10, 2016 16:13
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icantfindaname posted:For what it's worth, the world will probably settle into a new equilibrium pretty soon after whatever huge cycle of wars/revolutions is coming. The worlds of 1905, 1925 and 1955 look a lot different from each other, but all of them are at a relatively stable equilibrium. Of course millions of people died in brief bursts in between them, but minor details That was always how we managed to get past our own screwups in the past but it's hard to say there will be another stable equilibrium coming as temperatures will continue to increase far into the future based on actions already taken (and what we are about to double down on.) TildeATH posted:Start your own thread for whiny euthanasia talk. This thread isn't a podium to talk about killing yourself, this thread is for discussing how we're going to kill something much much bigger. I'm uncomfortable with being that bleak as well. I don't want to think like this, I don't want anybody to have to think like this. But people are going to, because it is rational. Mozi fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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Mozi posted:I'm uncomfortable with being that bleak as well. I don't want to think like this, I don't want anybody to have to think like this. But people are going to, because it is rational. I don't care, just don't do it in this thread.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:01
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No worries, I'm done.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:05
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icantfindaname posted:For what it's worth, the world will probably settle into a new equilibrium pretty soon after whatever huge cycle of wars/revolutions is coming. The worlds of 1905, 1925 and 1955 look a lot different from each other, but all of them are at a relatively stable equilibrium. Of course millions of people died in brief bursts in between them, but minor details Doesn't need to a huge cycle or some sort of WW3 scenario. Like I said previously, a limited nuclear exchange in Asia, the koreas going to nuclear war, india/pakistan, china etc, and we can postpone the worst by a lot of years. Obviously, I don't want this to happen, but the regions who are likely candidate for rapid destabilization AND has access to nukes, well... those are it. They also happen to be incredibly overpopulated and massively polluting. But this is purely speculation and would obviously be a horrible cataclysmic disaster.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:21
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So is the EPA just completely going away or will they just gut Air Quality regulations? I imagine most restrictions for emissions on vehicles and power plants will be cut.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:33
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Nice piece of fish posted:Doesn't need to a huge cycle or some sort of WW3 scenario. Like I said previously, a limited nuclear exchange in Asia, the koreas going to nuclear war, india/pakistan, china etc, and we can postpone the worst by a lot of years. Obviously, I don't want this to happen, but the regions who are likely candidate for rapid destabilization AND has access to nukes, well... those are it. They also happen to be incredibly overpopulated and massively polluting. But this is purely speculation and would obviously be a horrible cataclysmic disaster. Not sure what you think nuclear war involving China would be other than WW3. Most people still see combating climate change as a nice but optional environmentalist luxury like breeding giant pandas. There won't be any will to tackle it if there is any more serious global instability which occupies people's attention, so we're pretty much hosed.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:00
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Bert Roberge posted:So is the EPA just completely going away or will they just gut Air Quality regulations? Thank god California exists, half of of consumer regulations come from meeting their environmental standards.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:52
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Solve climate change with a nuclear winter and a large decrease in population. This is some how a less painful and more likely solution that just loving reducing our emissions. Humans are the dumbest things.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:56
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Well it's more likely to happen at this point.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:59
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Blorange posted:Thank god California exists, half of of consumer regulations come from meeting their environmental standards. Every blue state needs to band together immediately to block all the poo poo coming down the pipe from the climate denier in chief.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:02
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Man it is loving depressing how bad that one goddamn country could mess everything up. It finally looked like we may have had some progress.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:06
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Monaghan posted:Man it is loving depressing how bad that one goddamn country could mess everything up. It finally looked like we may have had some progress. lol if you think there was any progress under Obama or thought HRC was going to improve things in any way
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Nov 10, 2016 19:07
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TildeATH posted:I don't care, just don't do it in this thread. Thank you for being opposed to despair. Despair is useless. Even if the situation is hopeless you can strive to make it otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:08
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol if you think there was any progress under Obama or thought HRC was going to improve things in any way The CPP and Paris were real progress. In particular the CPP, which will be gone on day 1.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:14
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Trabisnikof posted:The CPP and Paris were real progress. In particular the CPP, which will be gone on day 1. maybe if you keep telling yourself that it will become true they were progress in the same way that phasing out leds for incandescent light bulbs were progress, ie worthless
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Nov 10, 2016 19:14
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The only situation more desperate than the current one is where people give into despair and don't work toward change.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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NewForumSoftware posted:maybe if you keep telling yourself that it will become true A 32% decrease in CO2 emissions from electricity was a vastly more impactful plan than switching to LEDs. Like by several orders of magnitude.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:20
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NewForumSoftware posted:lol if you think there was any progress under Obama or thought HRC was going to improve things in any way Can you control yourself and contain yourself in the troll threads.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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Trabisnikof posted:A 32% decrease in CO2 emissions from electricity was a vastly more impactful plan than switching to LEDs. Like by several orders of magnitude. until it actually happens its just a plan that didnt do anything
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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Tanreall posted:The only situation more desperate than the current one is where people give into despair and don't work toward change. This is the only valid perspective. Not caring improves nothing, does nothing.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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you should care, you should just give up on federal politics and move to an area where the local community is going to be amenable to living in a world where abrupt climate change is a reality of life
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Nov 10, 2016 19:25
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Bert Roberge posted:So is the EPA just completely going away or will they just gut Air Quality regulations? Clean Power Plan is dead as hell. Beyond that, the EPA will probably keep its existing regs on the books but be powerless to enforce them. A lot of the work done by Obama's EPA involved getting states to comply with the enforcement of federal regulations. An even more budget strapped EPA + Conservative Supreme Court = southern states will continue to tell the EPA to shove it and get away with it NewForumSoftware posted:until it actually happens its just a plan that didnt do anything I think it's hard to overstate the effects the CPP would have had long term. Coal would have been immediately hosed and over time even natural gas would be phased out/forced to become more efficient over the years. Yeah obviously that now means jack poo poo but it was a very real, concrete step in the right direction. disjoe fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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NewForumSoftware posted:you should care, you should just give up on federal politics and move to an area where the local community is going to be amenable to living in a world where abrupt climate change is a reality of life No, because it isn't about the self. It's about all of the people on this earth. We must stay engaged. We must wake up each day and look for opportunity. We can not lay down and accept what hasn't come to pass.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:29
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Tanreall posted:No, because it isn't about the self. It's about all of the people on this earth. We must stay engaged. We must wake up each day and look for opportunity. We can't not lay down and accept what hasn't come to pass. the people on the earth are hosed and the idea that we can somehow "save" them is part of the reason we're in this problem in the first place i guess you can ignore science and political realities but climate change is not going to stop or slow down any time in the next ten thousand years or so
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Nov 10, 2016 19:29
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Monaghan posted:Man it is loving depressing how bad that one goddamn country could mess everything up. It finally looked like we may have had some progress. All it ever takes to prevent progress is one particularly bad temper tantrum and ignoring a few inconvenient facts. The conservatives are very, very good at both of those things.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:29
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Huzanko posted:Thank you for being opposed to despair. Despair is useless. Rejection of reality is more despicable than a cold-eyed acceptance. I don't want to die on this hill because I agree in principle, but people are still living in a fantasy land where things don't exist because their effects haven't materialized yet. People should be sad. They should be despairing, if they care at all about nature or children or the future of the human race. I used to wonder how some historical cataclysms could have happened - the collapse of the Bronze age civilizations, the vanishing of South American or Southeast Asian empires, the Dark Ages - when human ingenuity and progress seemed so dependable and assured. The answer is that progress is incredibly fragile and we have been lucky beyond belief to have made it this far - and of course due also to the countless numbers of completely anonymous people who believed in a better future and worked hard. And few people seem to realize just how fragile all of those gains are - how fragile everything we have in our world is. But we are going to have the opportunity to see. And if that makes me a negative nelly, I could not give less of a poo poo.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:33
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NewForumSoftware posted:the people on the earth are hosed and the idea that we can somehow "save" them is part of the reason we're in this problem in the first place It's not about being the savior. It's about accepting the reality that our decisions affect the world. It's about understanding that living in the USA gives us a louder voice in how the world should move forward.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:32
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Tanreall posted:It's not about being the savior. It's about accepting the reality that our decisions affect the world. It's about understanding that living in the USA gives us a louder voice in how the world should move forward. our decisions don't affect the entire world and that's exactly why climate change will never be stopped welcome to reality, enjoy your stay
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Nov 10, 2016 19:36
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NewForumSoftware posted:our decisions don't affect the entire world and that's exactly why climate change will never be stopped Your reality is a cyanide pill for the world and I reject it completely. Resilience is the only path forward.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:42
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Tanreall posted:Your reality is a bleak cyanide pill for the world and I reject it completely. Continued resilience is the only path forward. you realize that humans lived for tens of thousands of years without knowing what was happening 10 miles away, much less across the entire world stop investing your own well being into those of people who you have no real connection with and start worrying about your neighbors because they are in real danger and when the world goes to hell those are going to be the people you need to rely on
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Nov 10, 2016 19:45
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NewForumSoftware posted:you realize that humans lived for tens of thousands of years without knowing what was happening 10 miles away, much less across the entire world Again I reject the idea that I should only concentrate on what's good for my own survival. In the words of Albert Camus "There are causes worth dying for, but none worth killing for."
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Nov 10, 2016 19:52
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