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Crowsbeak posted:Yes, to an extent, but then what do yo do, do you shame them? hell loving yes you shame them. shame them to hell and back. they're not needed to win an election hillary won a plurality of voters even with the democratic turnout deeply depressed for fucks sake why on earth do y'all think we can't be shaming these loving white nationalists? a couple pages back people were making GBS threads on warren for saying she'd try to work with trump and now people are like "a bloo bloo we need to reach out to racists to win" no we don't Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 16:21
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Radish posted:Heard on the radio some Trump supporters are excited because when the GOP undoes the ACA (which they actually liked somewhat) they are gonna get a great replacement! I've talked to people on this very forum who believe that. They are touchingly naive. "Why would Trump repeal the popular parts of Obamacare? Wouldn't that make him really unpopular?" Ah, blessed sweet summer children.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:21
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Armani posted:You both needed much better parents and childhoods. This is not a personal opinion, man. This is me presenting the thought process I believe a fat percentage of the population engages in. It's backed on what I've seen and what I've learned about people from a lifetime of interacting with them. Most people don't give a poo poo. That's just how it is. You make them care by making it personal somehow, either by involving someone they trust, or involving someone they love.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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John_A_Tallon posted:What if your first thought is, "That's too bad. I hope they're not lying. Well, I'm going to go back to my life now. Maybe I'll hear more about it later."? Because I'd say that is a more accurate description of how many people approach news about victimization that doesn't affect them or someone they have a vested interest in. Yeah, most of the time it's a, "That sucks," but the difference when I hear about it being a loving hate crime is that it doesn't become about a random person who I don't know, it becomes about a huge group of people--one of which I am definitely am a part of. When a black person gets "friend of the family" yelled at them all black people will get how much that fucks up your day, if not longer. When a woman is sexually harassed all women instinctively get how much that fucks up your day, if not longer. White men, though, understand nothing. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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pocket pool posted:Uh, I'm not sure if you got the memo but race played no part in this election. I read it here. 
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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BarbarianElephant posted:I've talked to people on this very forum who believe that. They are touchingly naive. "Why would Trump repeal the popular parts of Obamacare? Wouldn't that make him really unpopular?" Ah, blessed sweet summer children. I can't wait till he fucks all of them over. Time to replicate the Kentucky experiment nationwide!
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Nov 10, 2016 16:22
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Radish posted:Heard on the radio some Trump supporters are excited because when the GOP undoes the ACA (which they actually liked somewhat) they are gonna get a great replacement! Lots of America just has no clue how bad the GOP has gotten in eight years and are in for a shocking surprise when it starts affecting them. The Clinton wing has been a problem for years but no one had the power to push them out but now it's crystal clear they aren't wanted so anyone allying with them is a fool. The replacement is gonna' be TREMENDOUS!
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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Waffles Inc. posted:this is wrong. The revisionism began election night when Trumpists realized they were winning and suddenly had to adopt an air of legitimacy and appearing to be the "reasonable" ones in contrast to the people rightly losing their minds over the guy who promised to deport them being elected the next POTUS. These people need to be reminded of what they supported each and every day for the next 4 years. Labeling Mexicans rapists. The promise to jail his opponent if he won. The Muslim ban. The veiled threats couched in 2nd Amendment language. The Russian connections. The endorsement of the KKK (bigotry played no part!). This was always going to be our job. It doesn't change with the balance of power.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:23
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there's no such thing as independent voters)
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John_A_Tallon posted:This is not a personal opinion, man. This is me presenting the thought process I believe a fat percentage of the population engages in. It's backed on what I've seen and what I've learned about people from a lifetime of interacting with them. hey OP get out of the headspace you're occupying where you think this is a theoretical abstract academic discussion
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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Waffles Inc. posted:If you voted for trump you implicitly endorsed a racist and racist policies, making you complicit in racism, which is a form of racism Arsenic Lupin posted:Trump-associated hate crimes are already occurring. Who What Now posted:This, but unironically. What I am saying is that "Look at this awful hateful orange clown man." was a bad campaign strategy, and that Hillary failed to convince on economic reform. I am certain all the bigots are loving their new clown man president, but they didn't win it, Hillary losing 6 million votes over 2012 won it.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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Waffles Inc. posted:Are either of their policies racist? If not then you're good? I still think it's incredibly damaging to vote third party in the face of Donald Trump but hey A vote for either of those candidates was a vote for Trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Trump-associated hate crimes are already occurring. His point is that the hate crime people are not former independents or former Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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biracial bear for uncut posted:A vote for either of those candidates was a vote for Trump. i agree completely fwiw
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Nov 10, 2016 16:25
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Kilroy posted:A handful of posters in USPOL != the Democratic party. That's not what I said. Please reread. I said USPOL posters were laughing about how the stupid DNC was going to do this and now they're doing it themselves, for pretty much the same reasons, but still insisting no they are super great progressives while denying racism and throwing minorities out the car window. I am not hell-bent on equating talk of refocusing on class issues with proof of lefty racism, I'm pointing out people are being absolute shitheads and claiming that minorities and their issues robbed the poor white man of his class attention. Class issues and race issues are intensely intertwined. This is not a thing that can just be unraveled while ignoring the other, and if people think saying 'maybe stop killing so many black people' occasionally is somehow taking over the entire DNC platform with identity politics, as has been implied and stated outright in this thread, then yes I'm going to go 'wow what a shithead you are'. This doesn't mean I don't care about class, but the reactions I've been getting to just saying 'Trump supporters are racists, white people have a big problem they need to address, and choosing not to vote against a fascist because you're mad at the centrist Democrat is maybe not a great idea when the cost is so high' have been loving magical.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:24
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pocket pool posted:The replacement is gonna' be TREMENDOUS! The replacement is literally going to be "Have a savings account that is yuge enough to cover medical expenses. Can't afford that? gently caress you, die in a gutter."
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Nov 10, 2016 16:25
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Momentary digression- the Facebook posts I see about lobbying to flip electoral college members are all bullshit, right? There's no expectation among realistic people that that's something that could happen?
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Nov 10, 2016 16:27
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biracial bear for uncut posted:A vote for either of those candidates was a vote for Trump. Yes, this, basically.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:27
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Who What Now posted:So then what's the harm in shaming them? None, if you do not get overzealous and start insulting people who think basically the same things as you, only have differently ordered preferences.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:28
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steinrokkan posted:His point is that the hate crime people are not former independents or former Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:28
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Armani posted:We literally had Dylan Roof and lynchings but but but people lie Dylan Roof claimed in his own writing that the racial hysteria surrounding trayvon martin is what set him off.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:28
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haveblue posted:Momentary digression- the Facebook posts I see about lobbying to flip electoral college members are all bullshit, right? There's no expectation among realistic people that that's something that could happen? 29 states have legally bound electors the rest could literally vote for whomever they want (they won't though and that's about as fuckin stupid as people thinking trump is gonna pull a dictator for life)
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Nov 10, 2016 16:28
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Mozi posted:The markets have no idea what to do so they are switching to the default 'Republicans control 3 branches of government' plan. Yeah, I sold most of my US equities yesterday except a select few. We might enjoy the ride for a while, but I'm not enjoying the economic uncertainty in the future.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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Deified Data posted:The revisionism began election night when Trumpists realized they were winning and suddenly had to adopt an air of legitimacy and appearing to be the "reasonable" ones in contrast to the people rightly losing their minds over the guy who promised to deport them being elected the next POTUS. The media seems to have already forgotten it (remember pointing out racism makes white people feel bad) so it's up to everyone else to make sure he doesn't get to walk away from his racist campaign as if it didn't happen. I'm actually really nervous that media outlets know that they were complicit in this and are going to try and whitewash everything because they don't want to be blamed for the horrible stuff that's about to hit. There will be questions why they were derelict in their duty and treated his campaign as a joke instead of the tremendous threat that it was.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I've seen crosstabs (can't find them right now) that says that Democratic voters crossed over to vote Trump in many of the counties that flipped Obama to Trump. That's not controversial, and it is in no way a refutation of what I said. Just because they crossed party lines doesn't mean they became part of the established fringe.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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Electoral betrayal would require such a grand conspiracy to actually not fall flat on its face that it's unlikely to ever happen.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:29
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wait has the narrative shifted to "this had nothing to do with race/gender" i need to know what i'll be screaming as i'm frogmarched into the open grave by trump shock troops
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Nov 10, 2016 16:29
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Dylan Roof claimed in his own writing that the racial hysteria surrounding trayvon martin is what set him off. I'm not going to go and read some racist's manifesto or whatever, but are you actually saying that Dylan Roof blamed his victims for what he did?
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Dylan Roof claimed in his own writing that the racial hysteria surrounding trayvon martin is what set him off. Let's not gloss over the fact that the hysteria was completely warranted.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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quote:Class issues and race issues are intensely intertwined. This is not a thing that can just be unraveled while ignoring the other, and if people think saying 'maybe stop killing so many black people' occasionally is somehow taking over the entire DNC platform with identity politics, as has been implied and stated outright in this thread, then yes I'm going to go 'wow what a shithead you are'. This doesn't mean I don't care about class, but the reactions I've been getting to just saying 'Trump supporters are racists, white people have a big problem they need to address, and choosing not to vote against a fascist because you're mad at the centrist Democrat is maybe not a great idea when the cost is so high' have been loving magical. It ain't just about the economy.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I've seen crosstabs (can't find them right now) that says that Democratic voters crossed over to vote Trump in many of the counties that flipped Obama to Trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:29
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kartikeya posted:Minorities reporting getting harassed and attacked for being minorities by Trump supporters, let's call them liars trying to cheat us out of our sympathy: the ethical argument. Someone retweeting a screenshot of an iMessage app showing a conversation that says "he got beat up just for walking" is prime STDH territory.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:30
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Zelder posted:wait has the narrative shifted to "this had nothing to do with race/gender" yeah dems in this thread saying we need to reach out to white nationalists to win in 2020 and that race had nothing to do with trump winning it's genuinely incredible
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Nov 10, 2016 16:31
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Deified Data posted:The revisionism began election night when Trumpists realized they were winning and suddenly had to adopt an air of legitimacy and appearing to be the "reasonable" ones in contrast to the people rightly losing their minds over the guy who promised to deport them being elected the next POTUS. And you must be reminded what Hillary offered as an alternative: poo poo all. For each racist remark, Trump at least promised them something tangible as a reward for their vote (promise being the key word, before you delve into the obvious).
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Nov 10, 2016 16:31
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WampaLord posted:You've gone off the deep end man. Did you hear the poo poo Trump supporters were yelling at his rallies? The few thousand Trump supporters that show up at rallys are not equal to the millions that voted for him. Nobody cares about Trumps white supremacist block. We care about his fed up with neoliberal economics block. If you really thinks it was all just racism, then that means 3/4 of whites and about 1/3 of Hispanics are just evil racists. If that's true then might as well give up the fight.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Zelder posted:wait has the narrative shifted to "this had nothing to do with race/gender" From idiots but they were probably saying that racism is over before this. Bishounen Bonanza posted:The few thousand Trump supporters that show up at rallys are not equal to the millions that voted for him. Nobody cares about Trumps white supremacist block. We care about his fed up with neoliberal economics block. The Democrats already have a "fed up with Neoliberal politics" block, they just didn't vote. You don't need to dip into Trump's cesspool to get votes when they are right there. Stop acting like 100% of the country voted when turnout was one of the lowest in recent history and the only way to shift this is to bleed Trumpists. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 16:31
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John_A_Tallon posted:This is not a personal opinion, man. This is me presenting the thought process I believe a fat percentage of the population engages in. It's backed on what I've seen and what I've learned about people from a lifetime of interacting with them. This is the literal definition of a personal opinion. You do not have anything close to resembling a thought-out rational map to your actions because no one does, humans do not actually work the way you say here. You barely do, I wager, and have the Internet as the secondary filter to even write out your thoughts in a measured way that does not exist in a face to face reality. Talk to some actual people that aren't through your phone. It might shock you how wrong your opinion and system really are.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Bad Decision Dino posted:And what I am saying is that what flipped this people was probably not their rooted hate for black people or their desire to do hate crimes under an orange clown man president. [citation needed]
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Nov 10, 2016 16:33
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:The few thousand Trump supporters that show up at rallys are not equal to the millions that voted for him. Nobody cares about Trumps white supremacist block. We care about his fed up with neoliberal economics block. I do not think it was ALL just racism, but that idiot thinks it has NOTHING to do with racism. The truth is actually in the middle here.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Who What Now posted:So then what's the harm in shaming them?
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:We care about his fed up with neoliberal economics block. we actually don't care about that hillary won a plurality of votes even with democratic turnout way way down so many of y'all thinking we need to connect with these fuckers when we really need to ramp up the progressive messaging--a large part of which will be to tell these people to gently caress off
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Nov 10, 2016 16:32
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