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Zythrst posted:MSNBC isn't left all though. I mean some of the anchors want to be, but the bosses clearly aren't. Case in point: Ed Schultz getting canned
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Nov 10, 2016 17:38
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As someone who has lived in small towns in both Ohio and West Virginia and who has familial experience with this issue, if the Dems would have come out and said "there is a heroin epidemic in this nation, and our plan to stop it is xyz," they would have won more votes. poo poo's rough out there
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Nov 10, 2016 17:41
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i don't know about 'bad person' but trumpvoting, whether through malice or negligence, is definitely an evil act for which an account will be demanded in the court of eternity however that's not strictly relevant to the question of democratic autopsy and rebuilding, which this thread is about (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 17:41
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Zythrst posted:This might be as simple has having the vast majority of your base in cities. Like can we do whatever the gently caress the Reid people did in NV?
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Nov 10, 2016 17:42
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tadashi posted:I really don't know what the new model needs to be. Grassroots-based economic populism to work as a counterfactual to the impending republican nightmare we now face.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:44
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Peel posted:i don't know about 'bad person' but trumpvoting, whether through malice or negligence, is definitely an evil act for which an account will be demanded in the court of eternity It seems to be, because a lot of the people that are natural allies to a socially, economically progressive party are rural whites that voted Trump. And some people can't get over their themselves enough to reach out to those people.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:43
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Smoking Crow posted:As someone who has lived in small towns in both Ohio and West Virginia and who has familial experience with this issue, if the Dems would have come out and said "there is a heroin epidemic in this nation, and our plan to stop it is xyz," they would have won more votes. poo poo's rough out there I think the Clinton campaign should have done a lot, lot, lot more with the drug war as a campaign issue. This was an area where the Democrats had a ton of strength and it's been squandered by Obama and was squandered by Clinton and now we enter a new paradigm of the Republicans either A) Rolling back progress on this front or B) worse, taking credit for what progress we've already made Like I want to see marijuana reform and a change to how we police and treat addiction, but the idea of a Republican doing it and taking credit for it makes me sick to my stomach.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:43
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Mirthless posted:I think the Clinton campaign should have done a lot, lot, lot more with the drug war as a campaign issue. This was an area where the Democrats had a ton of strength and it's been squandered by Obama and was squandered by Clinton and now we enter a new paradigm of the Republicans either A) Rolling back progress on this front or B) worse, taking credit for what progress we've already made I'm not talking about marijuana reform, I'm talking about stopping 20 heroin ODs in a day from happening in a small village of >200 people
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Nov 10, 2016 17:45
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Peel posted:i don't know about 'bad person' but trumpvoting, whether through malice or negligence, is definitely an evil act for which an account will be demanded in the court of eternity Yeah the former is what I was trying to say (I am just loving way mad right now and not being rational about it at all) without really paying heed to the latter. I agree that a different strategy than elitism is what's needed, we need more understanding, etc. I'm just leery of any proposal to just let the Trump vote itself go. Hate the sin, not the sinner, sure, but you don't have to pretend the sin wasn't a sin.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:47
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I dunno, if Trump really does expand infrastructure spending through a public works program and other legitimately populist poo poo, I'm gonna have to say gg, get ready for 8 years of Trump. I legitimately don't know what Dems could do to beat that.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:48
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Smoking Crow posted:I'm not talking about marijuana reform, I'm talking about stopping 20 heroin ODs in a day from happening in a small village of >200 people Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not trying to make one about the other. I'm just remarking drug reform, in general, is something that she could have touched on more in the campaign. I understand these are separate problems.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:48
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NumberLast posted:I dunno, if Trump really does expand infrastructure spending through a public works program and other legitimately populist poo poo, I'm gonna have to say gg, get ready for 8 years of Trump. Thankfully, McConnell seems fully committed to preventing Trump from doing anything populist when he actually gets into office. If the Republicans can keep Trump from actually doing anything leftist we could get him out in one term.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:51
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Smoking Crow posted:As someone who has lived in small towns in both Ohio and West Virginia and who has familial experience with this issue, if the Dems would have come out and said "there is a heroin epidemic in this nation, and our plan to stop it is xyz," they would have won more votes. poo poo's rough out there
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Nov 10, 2016 17:51
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I'm wary of calling it a sin. If you live in a world where no one you know was helped by Obama, and no one you know would be hurt by Trump, and Trump says he'll help, voting for him doesn't even begin to look like a bad thing. And intention is way more important than outcome in evaluating action, but that part might be where we drastically differ.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:53
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mrmcd posted:Like can we do whatever the gently caress the Reid people did in NV? Reid's Nevada Machine is built on the strength of a rising tide of non-white immigration and a very powerful service sector Union. Neither of those exist in the Midwest. And while you're never gonna turn Youngstown into Vegas, demographically speaking, the DNC let the GOP destroy unionism in the Midwest, and now we're all paying the price.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:53
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One thing that was very telling to me happened during game 7 of the World Series. In what was probably the most expensive ad buy of the campaign, the Clinton team took out a full minute to run a clip of Trump's greatest hits (grab 'em by the pussy, tell them to go f*ck themselves, etc.) Obviously the ad wasn't the reason she lost, but it does speak to the fact that with only a few days to go, the campaign was still focused on why Trump was bad rather than why she was good. The tone of her ads should have shifted at minimum after the 3rd debate to get people thinking 'oh yeah I could see myself voting for this woman' and that just didn't happen.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:52
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NumberLast posted:I'm wary of calling it a sin. If you live in a world where no one you know was helped by Obama, and no one you know would be hurt by Trump, and Trump says he'll help, voting for him doesn't even begin to look like a bad thing. Everyone knows somebody who is going to be hurt by Trump, though. My brother knows me and my wife will both be hurt by Trump's policies, pretty much immediately. That didn't stop him from sending me a message on facebook this morning acting like this whole thing was behind us now that election day is over. I don't plan to talk to him for at least another two years.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:54
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Nov 10, 2016 17:55
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NumberLast posted:I dunno, if Trump really does expand infrastructure spending through a public works program and other legitimately populist poo poo, I'm gonna have to say gg, get ready for 8 years of Trump. Yeah it would be neat if Trump actually did good populist economic spending and didn't end up as an empty vessel with no interest in governance while all the conservative retreads from the past 20 years just gently caress everything up behind the scenes.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:56
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the washington post is p bad but the do have some good people in conclusion the washington post is a land of contrasts
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Nov 10, 2016 17:55
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The problem with Democrats is that it's like they look at elections in 4 year cycles and Republicans look at every day as a new opportunity to gently caress with Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:57
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Mirthless posted:OK, please explain how Trump is going to do those things you said rurals and poor whites belong in the democratic party bae wat you offering the racists
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Nov 10, 2016 17:57
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mrmcd posted:Yeah it would be neat if Trump actually did good populist economic spending and didn't end up as an empty vessel with no interest in governance while all the conservative retreads from the past 20 years just gently caress everything up behind the scenes. are you insane, this would give him another term
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Nov 10, 2016 17:57
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liberal elites can (so long as trump doesn't go crazy vindictive) but it's going to be a hell of a time for the people they rely on to vote for them every 2-4 years
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Nov 10, 2016 17:59
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Guillotines IMO.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:00
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Zikan posted:are you insane, this would give him another term oh no, if someone does actual good things, they might be enabled to then continue doing good things. Heavens no! It's so much better for everyone if we live in a giant spiraling toilet bowl for four years. I mean, I doubt he will as much as you, but the statement was obviously contingent on him not being a giant walking bag of dicks.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:00
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Zikan posted:are you insane, this would give him another term I'm not worried about Trump starting programs traditionally proposed by Democrats.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:02
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Some more grist for the mill on my "the machine failed" analysis of this election: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/305339-clinton-world-dumbfounded-by-hillarys-election-defeatquote:"It was a mismanaged campaign from the start, 150 percent,” one aide said. “There was so much stuff that needed fixing. I thought we might have learned some lessons from the primary. But as you can tell from last night, probably not." quote:One surrogate blamed the poor sampling models and analytics that the campaign was so reliant on. It hadn’t done traditional tracking polls for the last month. quote:Allies on the ground complained for weeks that they weren’t getting the resources they needed. quote:“I don’t think we ever understood the political climate there,” the Clinton friend said. “I know some are questioning why we never went there in the final days.” quote:“This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for, and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country,” she said. “But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together.” God.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:02
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Mirthless posted:I am just loving way mad right now and not being rational about it at all 
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Nov 10, 2016 18:03
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That looks like a person who should totally be shaping the party after losing 2 bids on the presidency. Sure, why not dems, why not!
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Nov 10, 2016 18:04
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Typo posted:Clinton's attempt at playing female idpol was so lovely it didn't even work on women 50/50 chance the woman behind you at supermarket checkout voted for trump if not her, the one next in line (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2016 18:05
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If the Clintons think anything other than going off on sabbatical for 4 years is a good idea for them.... we're dead. Look at what it did for John Kerry. Democrats loving loved him in '08 because it was like he was a completely different person. They loved Al Gore in 2006 because he could get on calls with voters and joke about winning the '00 election.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:05
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LmaoTheKid posted:That looks like a person who should totally be shaping the party after losing 2 bids on the presidency. Sure, why not dems, why not! If there is even a sniff of this then the rebuild Dems is loving hopeless and people better find another party.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:06
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HannibalBarca posted:Some more grist for the mill on my "the machine failed" analysis of this election: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/305339-clinton-world-dumbfounded-by-hillarys-election-defeat lmao russ feingold asked for help and they did nothing ahahahahahahahahahahaha gently caress the clintons forever. tar feather and shame each and every hillaryman
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Nov 10, 2016 18:08
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Nov 10, 2016 18:08
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Mirthless posted:I don't care what your reasons were; You will never live this down and if other liberals are smart, they will take their lessons from this, learn and act on them, reach out better to the people who voted for Trump, but they will NEVER forgive the people in their immediate personal and social lives for the horrible loving thing they did, because there needs to be consequences, esp. in their peer group, for voting for Trump. It's funny that you managed to string these two things together without irony or self awareness.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:08
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NumberLast posted:You need to get over the thought that every person that voted for Trump did so because they hate minorities. That kind of thinking is why the Dems lost. not caring about our most vulnerable makes you a bad person IMHO  this is a Garrison Keillor op-ed guys y'know, probably not 100% sincere
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Nov 10, 2016 18:10
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Raskolnikov38 posted:
hint this is why you lost
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Nov 10, 2016 18:12
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lmao russ feingold asked for help and they did nothing ahahahahahahahahahahaha gently caress the clintons forever. tar feather and shame each and every hillaryman BERNIE IS BAD BECAUSE HES NOT HELPING DOWN TICKET!!!!!!! - Hillpeople back in May. Get hosed assholes.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:11
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it's crazy how they were literally wrong about everything haha
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